obama sending more troops

[Igetp2s]

At least Obama doesn´t look like someone who starts his day with a whiskey bottle, i cannot say the same thing about George.

If Obama is so brilliant, then how come he doesn't seem to be aware of what's going on in California. Almost every one of his economic and environmental proposals has been tried on a smaller scale in California, and look what condition it is in. People can't leave the state fast enough.

That is the path he wants to lead the rest of the country towards. Dumb moron.

[daggerkobe]

If these neonitwits had been this outspoken the past 8 years, maybe we wouldn't be in this mess right now.

[andywend]

Obama hasn't even been in office for a month and he has already released the 2nd half of the TARP funds totalling $350 BILLION. He just signed a $900 BILLION stimulus package filled with every liberal democratic pork program dreamed up since 1994 and is now unveiling $75 BILLION more earmarked for those that were the least responsible when it came to purchasing their homes.

That's 1.325 TRILLION in less than a month.

Total U.S. debt as of February 17th was approximately 10.7 TRILLION so Obama has increased our entire country's deficit by about 12.5% in less than a month and he has said on multiple occassions that "this is only the beginning and much more work is needed".

I'm sure people like Ryan XL, Casi and DaggerKobe blasted Bush repeatedly over the past 8 years for allowing our deficit to spiral out of control and rightfully so. However, now that their messiah Obama is breaking all records for increasing the deficit, all of a sudden they don't have a problem with it.

The world wide meltdown is the only thing stopping the dollar from cratering and when the world recovers from this recession, our country is going to SEVERELY REGRET what our government has done with the TARP program, this $900 BILLION pork-filled stimulus package and all the other socialist programs that the democrats come up with in the near future.

Curious, while I might disagree with your huge favorite moneyline system, you are spot on when it comes to politics and have my full support if you ever decide to run for public office.

[pico]

look at the black atheletes and rappers. that is how obama roll...with style son

[LVHerbie]

.

[LVHerbie]

As a Libertarian who voted for a Republican or Democratic for the first time (I live in the only state were there was no third party candidates... I thought getting rid of Bush was worth the violation of my principles..) Well, I already feel totally screwed by voting for the new President Bush ...

1) As a Veteran who served in Iraq this was probably the biggest issue for me (besides just despising Bush in general)... Call me naive but I thought the priority would be getting the troops out of Iraq and not increasing the troops in Afghanistan...

2) I didn't realize that closing Guantanamo Bay and ending torture policy actually meant possible closing Guantanamo Bay in a year and shifting some people around, ignoring the other 40,000 "detainees" scattered throughout the world, and continue allowing extraordinary rendition and outsourcing torture.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/us/politics/18policy.html

3) Medical Marijuana - "I think the basic concept of using medical marijuana for the same purposes and with the same controls as other drugs prescribed by doctors, I think that's entirely appropriate."

"I would not have the Justice Department prosecuting and raiding medical marijuana users."

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-la-pot-raid5-2009feb05,0,4249491.story

http://www.ebar.com/news/article.php?sec=news&article=3720

[flavo-ice]

I think he also said he would go into Pakistan to get the Taliban, al-Qaeda, Ben Laden, et al. Actually, I am certain he said that.

Gee, I can't wait until we are at war with the only country in the world that has defeated the Assyrians, Babylonians, Hittites, Greeks, Romans, British Empire (twice), the Mongols, the various Indian empires that they chewed up and spit out among others. The Pashtun tribes in current day northwest Pakistan and their cousins in Afghanistan.

400 million fanatical lunatics with nuclear weapons and their word for enemy is the same as their word for stranger and we are going to invade them? Seems like Obama is still smoking whatever he bragged that he inhaled.

The idea that any Pakistani government could survive the wrath that their citizens would heap upon their heads if that government was perceived as carrying out the wishes of a Christian government in pursuing military operations against Pakistanis is so delusional that anyone who put forth such an idea clearly knows NOTHING about history or the Pakistani people, the Pashtuns, the northwest territories and the Afghanis.

The idea that you can win a "war" in Afghanistan and the Pakistani tribal areas which has as its goal instituting a strong central, Pashtun controlled government in Kabul against the will of the Afghani and the Pakistani people is equally delusional.

The idea that 30,000 more troops is going to make ANY difference in Afghanistan is equally delusional. And not only are these troops going to "secure" Afghanistan, they are also going to launch incursions into Pakistan? Why don't we just invade Jupiter?

There is one military commander in history who took his army into what is now the northwest territory in Pakistan and modern day Afghanistan and lived to tell about it. His advice to the British crown on how to handle the Pashtuns in both Pakistan and Afghanistan was "have as little to do with them as possible and they will gradually grow to hate you less and less". Good advice.

Good plan Obama Jesus.

This is exactly why the previous administration focused their efforts on Iraq instead of Afganhistan. Iraq provides the best chances for success or least path of resistance to showcase the success of a democratic system in the Middle East. Success here might just lay the groundwork for other Middle East countries to follow suit someday in the future. Iraq as a stable, democratic country, and US ally in the Middle East is the goal.

And if the media would report the truth, our entire country would see that Iraq is a success and the war was won under Bush's tenure, but the media would rather eat nails than admit Bush did anything positive. Last fall, the leaders of Iraq were ready to finalize an exit strategy for the US military forces as war was over, but Obama was over there trying to get their leaders to delay any official withdrawal until he was in office so he could take credit. Pulling troops out of Iraq was after all his main campaigning promise that got him the nomination over Hillary to begin with.

Open your eyes people, the troop surge worked, the US is/has won the war in Iraq, democracy has a chance to flourish and spread in the middle east, and perhaps end fanactical islam terrorism.

[ryanXL977]

This is exactly why the previous administration focused their efforts on Iraq instead of Afganhistan. Iraq provides the best chances for success or least path of resistance to showcase the success of a democratic system in the Middle East. Success here might just lay the groundwork for other Middle East countries to follow suit someday in the future. Iraq as a stable, democratic country, and US ally in the Middle East is the goal.

And if the media would report the truth, our entire country would see that Iraq is a success and the war was won under Bush's tenure, but the media would rather eat nails than admit Bush did anything positive. Last fall, the leaders of Iraq were ready to finalize an exit strategy for the US military forces as war was over, but Obama was over there trying to get their leaders to delay any official withdrawal until he was in office so he could take credit. Pulling troops out of Iraq was after all his main campaigning promise that got him the nomination over Hillary to begin with.

Open your eyes people, the troop surge worked, the US is/has won the war in Iraq, democracy has a chance to flourish and spread in the middle east, and perhaps end fanactical islam terrorism.

dumbest thing ive seen in my life
everyone who has half a brain, including the cia, military, and probably bush himself, has admitted this war cannot be won, and that democracy aint coming. Besides, who are you or i to say democracy is the best thing for everyone.

absolute moronic post. brain dead post of all time.

[flavo-ice]

Well I guess you've got all the answers then. I'll just continue along as the "dumbest thing you've ever seen". Hopefully one day you'll figure it out. In the meantime, pay attention as Obama trashes this country over the next 4 years, at which point he'll make Bush's tenure seem like the golden years, which considering Bush's list of screwups, will be quite an accomplishment for the chosen one.

[MilfDriller]

Ryan has all the answers. He loves illegals even though they have destroyed his precious gay state of California... and he wants more illegals.

[ryanXL977]

Well I guess you've got all the answers then. I'll just continue along as the "dumbest thing you've ever seen". Hopefully one day you'll figure it out. In the meantime, pay attention as Obama trashes this country over the next 4 years, at which point he'll make Bush's tenure seem like the golden years, which considering Bush's list of screwups, will be quite an accomplishment for the chosen one.

why are you calling him chosen one and messiah? whats that supposed to mean? who is teaching you this stuff? where were you 8 years ago to warn us about bush? how are we to trust you will be right this time about obama? Democrcy was reason number 1044876 as to why we went into the middle east, had very little to do with it. Wmds remember? ties to 911? bad saddam, bad?

[flavo-ice]

why are you calling him chosen one and messiah? whats that supposed to mean? who is teaching you this stuff? where were you 8 years ago to warn us about bush? how are we to trust you will be right this time about obama? Democrcy was reason number 1044876 as to why we went into the middle east, had very little to do with it. Wmds remember? ties to 911? bad saddam, bad?

I'm just regurgitating what our unbiased media and talking heads have conditioned me to believe over the last year. You should be proud, it worked, I'm calling Obama the chosen one. I didn't mention messiah, but now that you brought it up, it rings a bell like a Pavlovian response as well. Excuse me I'm drooling. Or is that an exciting chill up my leg?

If you feel I've been unfairly influenced, then Obama and the democrats have an answer for that as well, as they do all our problems. It's called the "Fairness Doctrine". Sounds good, right?

You know, it really is nice to have a government that has the answer to all our problems. Now I won't have to worry about anything. And after all that time I spent worrying about personal responsibility and consequences of my actions. What a waste.

[ryanXL977]

too much am radio , too little time using your own eyes
just bc hannity or limbaugh says its so, dont make it so
still wondering why they dont run for office, with all the answers they have. You've got a pavlovian bell allright, it just happens to help you spew out right wing talking points in response to strawmen that you (or someone else), has created for you. Up to you my man, but the iraq war hasnt been won and cant be won, kinda like nam.

[smarmy]

I think the republicans tanked this election. They knew how bad that the next several years are going to be and they dumped it on the Dems. That is the only rational reason that I can come up with for McCain/Palin.

[Bookman]

Yikes! This thread should be renamed 'Ryan and the idiots.'

Hey, I'm all for healthy debate, but some of you really need to do some reading before posting your opinions. And get over your hate and fear, for only then will you realize how deep humanity's problems really are, and that if anyone can fix some of those problems it is indeed Barack Obama.

JMHO.

[andywend]

Bookman, its people like you and Ryan that are responsible for "humanity's problems".

Neither of you have a prayer of making it on your own which is why you both are so much in favor of as much government intervention in your lives as possible.

Liberals are absolutely pathetic!!!

[ryanXL977]

hwo do you know what i am in favor of or not? please find the post where i said what i am in favor of.
iam in favor of no bullshit wars over lies, and if anyone has doubled government, its the last 8 years

less am radio
more travel
go outside

[Bookman]

Bookman, its people like you and Ryan that are responsible for "humanity's problems".

Neither of you have a prayer of making it on your own which is why you both are so much in favor of as much government intervention in your lives as possible.

Liberals are absolutely pathetic!!!

So, from my brief post you conclude that I am a liberal who hasn't made it on my own and am partly to blame for humanity's problems. Still not the most moronic post I've read on this thread, but close.

[ryanXL977]

these guys assume anyone who disagrees with bush or doesnt support tax cuts as a cure-all, are liberals

they dont know what the word means other than to define everyone who isnt anti gay and a xenophobe as a liberal

[Bookman]

"...they dont know what the word means other than to define everyone who isnt anti gay and a xenophobe as a liberal"

And, of course, any fool who has the nerve to believe the best candidate actually WON in November.

[Data]

Yikes! This thread should be renamed 'Ryan and Bookman and the people they call idiots.'

I corrected this for you. Ryan's style is very unimpressive, all he does is asking rhetorical questions and trash republicans as a group (including Bush and fellow posters) calling them idiots and such. There is nothing interesting, thought provoking or original in his posts. I wonder what makes you to acknowledge him that much besides common (assuming there are two of you) political views. Since Ryan is not intellectually engaging, I think that neither are you.

I feel pretty confident about my intellectual abilities and I take no offense in you calling me an idiot. However, I want to offer my support to more sensitive fellow posters whom you might have offended and I will state that your posts do not serve as evidence that you are in position to make assessment of other people intellectual abilities yet provide a proof that you have no manners.

Hey, I'm all for healthy debate, but some of you really need to do some reading before posting your opinions. And get over your hate and fear, for only then will you realize how deep humanity's problems really are, and that if anyone can fix some of those problems it is indeed Barack Obama.

JMHO.

If you are for healthy debate I invite you to these threads that severely lacking any coherent inputs from liberal intellectuals if you want to prove that you did some reading on your own and can do better then name calling:
xxxxxxxx

http://forum.sbrforum.com/politics-economics/139197-real-reason-america-going-bankrupt.html

http://forum.sbrforum.com/players-talk/129318-what-does-professional-gambler-contribute-society.html

To the extent of doing some reading before posting opinions, you do not have to worry. It has been a while but I had studied these political and economical matters academically for a couple of years.

[ryanXL977]

I corrected this for you. Ryan's style is very unimpressive, all he does is asking rhetorical questions and trash republicans as a group (including Bush and fellow posters) calling them idiots and such. There is nothing interesting, thought provoking or original in his posts. I wonder what makes you to acknowledge him that much besides common (assuming there are two of you) political views. Since Ryan is not intellectually engaging, I think that neither are you.

I feel pretty confident about my intellectual abilities and I take no offense in you calling me an idiot. However, I want to offer my support to more sensitive fellow posters whom you might have offended and I will state that your posts do not serve as evidence that you are in position to make assessment of other people intellectual abilities yet provide a proof that you have no manners.



If you are for healthy debate I invite you to these threads that severely lacking any coherent inputs from liberal intellectuals if you want to prove that you did some reading on your own and can do better then name calling:

http://forum.sbrforum.com/players-talk/134094-hey-liberals-you-like-how-things-going-denmark-dont-you.html?slf=62

http://forum.sbrforum.com/politics-economics/139197-real-reason-america-going-bankrupt.html

http://forum.sbrforum.com/players-talk/129318-what-does-professional-gambler-contribute-society.html

To the extent of doing some reading before posting opinions, you do not have to worry. It has been a while but I had studied these political and economical matters academically for a couple of years.

the last 8 years have proven beyond a doubt who the idiots are
i merely reiterate the obvious
calling everyone who doesnt support every bullshit american war a liberal is pretty reacitonary

but then, nobody is more reactionary than the party of nixon.reagan. and bush

ps. my fave president is eisenhower. so go ahead and pigeonhole me genius

[reno cool]

As a Libertarian who voted for a Republican or Democratic for the first time (I live in the only state were there was no third party candidates... I thought getting rid of Bush was worth the violation of my principles..) Well, I already feel totally screwed by voting for the new President Bush ...

1) As a Veteran who served in Iraq this was probably the biggest issue for me (besides just despising Bush in general)... Call me naive but I thought the priority would be getting the troops out of Iraq and not increasing the troops in Afghanistan...

2) I didn't realize that closing Guantanamo Bay and ending torture policy actually meant possible closing Guantanamo Bay in a year and shifting some people around, ignoring the other 40,000 "detainees" scattered throughout the world, and continue allowing extraordinary rendition and outsourcing torture.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/us/politics/18policy.html

3) Medical Marijuana - "I think the basic concept of using medical marijuana for the same purposes and with the same controls as other drugs prescribed by doctors, I think that's entirely appropriate."

"I would not have the Justice Department prosecuting and raiding medical marijuana users."

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-la-pot-raid5-2009feb05,0,4249491.story

http://www.ebar.com/news/article.php...s&article=3720

some very good points here. This is the first legit critique of Obama in this thread.

[ryanXL977]

i also agree with lvherbie on every point
however, obama did say he would send more troops to afghanistan for the last 2 yrs, so its not a shock

we will never win that war, its pointless and dumb. but its still better than bush, though thats not good enough for me, its good enough for most

[reno cool]

yes, he did, you're right, and it's unfortunate.

[curious]

"...they dont know what the word means other than to define everyone who isnt anti gay and a xenophobe as a liberal"

And, of course, any fool who has the nerve to believe the best candidate actually WON in November.

I was very puzzled by the election campaigning. Almost as much as by Dole's non-campaigning when he ran against Clinton. Bob Dole is very intelligent, charming, witty, and personable. He could have easily beaten Clinton. They had enough dirt on Clinton to bury him, but they didn't use it. And the real Bob Dole was nowhere to be seen. Bob Dole could eviscerate Slick Willie in a debate. But he didn't. When Dole appeared on camera he just seemed tired or something. Not the real Bob Dole at all. I am firmly convinced that Bob Dole purposely threw that election. I have my suspicions why but they are the worst kind of conspiracy theory stuff, so I will not post them here.

Now, move ahead to this presidential election campaigning. We didn't see the real John McCain during this election campaigning. McCain is very smart, very tough, very principled, good on camera, quick on his feet. Like Dole, McCain could have eviscerated Obama in the debates. Obama is not good on his feet and has no real convictions so he just blathers on and on and swings in the breeze with the latest poll. McCain looked almost buffoonery on camera. He did not stand up to the DemoCong and he didn't go after them. He should have. He could have won the election.

Again, I think that McCain purposely threw the election.

In this case I think it is a brilliant strategy because Obama is completely out of his element, he isn't a strong thinker, doesn't know how to analyze problems, doesn't know how to pick competent people, he is never going to get a clue as to how to really address the problems facing our country. The DemoCong are going to pay dearly at the next Congressional elections. In 4 years Obama will be all washed up.

So, was this planned? Did the Republicans purposely lose the election so that Obama would be exposed for the left wing ideologue that he is and he would self destruct in the next four years leaving it wide open to the Republicans? Brilliant if they did it on purpose.

Given that the real John McCain was nowhere to be seen during the campaigning I have to believe that is what happened.

[curious]

i also agree with lvherbie on every point
however, obama did say he would send more troops to afghanistan for the last 2 yrs, so its not a shock

we will never win that war, its pointless and dumb. but its still better than bush, though thats not good enough for me, its good enough for most

In what specific way is Obama better the Bush in terms of the policies that he is implementing for dealing with Afghanistan?

What specifics can you provide to back up the statement "...its pointless and dumb, but its still better than bush".

[Bookman]

I was very puzzled by the election campaigning. Almost as much as by Dole's non-campaigning when he ran against Clinton. Bob Dole is very intelligent, charming, witty, and personable. He could have easily beaten Clinton. They had enough dirt on Clinton to bury him, but they didn't use it. And the real Bob Dole was nowhere to be seen. Bob Dole could eviscerate Slick Willie in a debate. But he didn't. When Dole appeared on camera he just seemed tired or something. Not the real Bob Dole at all. I am firmly convinced that Bob Dole purposely threw that election. I have my suspicions why but they are the worst kind of conspiracy theory stuff, so I will not post them here.

Now, move ahead to this presidential election campaigning. We didn't see the real John McCain during this election campaigning. McCain is very smart, very tough, very principled, good on camera, quick on his feet. Like Dole, McCain could have eviscerated Obama in the debates. Obama is not good on his feet and has no real convictions so he just blathers on and on and swings in the breeze with the latest poll. McCain looked almost buffoonery on camera. He did not stand up to the DemoCong and he didn't go after them. He should have. He could have won the election.

Again, I think that McCain purposely threw the election.

In this case I think it is a brilliant strategy because Obama is completely out of his element, he isn't a strong thinker, doesn't know how to analyze problems, doesn't know how to pick competent people, he is never going to get a clue as to how to really address the problems facing our country. The DemoCong are going to pay dearly at the next Congressional elections. In 4 years Obama will be all washed up.

So, was this planned? Did the Republicans purposely lose the election so that Obama would be exposed for the left wing ideologue that he is and he would self destruct in the next four years leaving it wide open to the Republicans? Brilliant if they did it on purpose.

Given that the real John McCain was nowhere to be seen during the campaigning I have to believe that is what happened.

If they could have won it in '08 (and in '96 as you imply) then why wait? Why deliberately throw an election they could have won NOW so they can win it back in 2012?

No, the republicans lost because they had the inferior candidate....and he wasn't faking it. McCain is a likeable guy, and a noble American for the most part, but he ain't POTUS material; then again, neither was W. Now, if the republicans want to step into the 21st century and start nominating good candidates --- there are plenty of good ones among their ranks --- then and only then will they take back the White House. Until then, thank god we have someone with a brain who gets up before 9:30 calling the shots, cause we're in a world of hurt right now.

[reno cool]

Look at Gore. He also grew some balls after the election. He acted like a robot during the whole campaign. When they get close to winning the presidency I think the candidates are coached to be very conservative and not risk offending anyone. I'm still not sure if this is intended to give the particular candidate the best chance of winning or protecting the status-quo in general.

[ryanXL977]

as much as many hate clinton, they should try to step back and realize, this guy connects better with people than almost any human ive ever seen. its uncanny. he may be a sociopath or whatever, but he is unreal with people

to comapre him to an 80 yr old is pretty biased.
but oh well

i guess they throw all these elections so they can bring in the CLOSER (eric gagne 2003? nope, sarah palin 2012?)

[Hotdiggity11]

Huh? What's the big deal? Sending troops into Afghanistan was part of his political platform. The only significant difference is the number, he will likely have to send troops in the five figures rather than the 7,000 he originally promised.

[Hotdiggity11]

In what specific way is Obama better the Bush in terms of the policies that he is implementing for dealing with Afghanistan?

What specifics can you provide to back up the statement "...its pointless and dumb, but its still better than bush".

I would say Obama is far better than Bush on the Afghanistan situation. Keep in mind, Afghan has lost most of its concentration in both media news and troop allocation since Operation Iraqi Freedom. Most of the world still has some support for Afghanistan where we lost pretty much all of it in Iraq. Even Japan has helped us out in Afghanistan despite still being limited under Article 9 of their own Constitution! This is one of the primary reasons we need to leave Iraq [In an orderly manner of course] and concentrate the War on Terrorism within a single primary location rather than the two front war we've been waging since 2003. Obama bringing more troops into Afghanistan is obvious, we do truly need them due to recent problems in Southern Afghanistan.

[pico]

I think Obama starts his day with a crack pipe. Isn't that what one of his books said?

[curious]

I would say Obama is far better than Bush on the Afghanistan situation. Keep in mind, Afghan has lost most of its concentration in both media news and troop allocation since Operation Iraqi Freedom. Most of the world still has some support for Afghanistan where we lost pretty much all of it in Iraq. Even Japan has helped us out in Afghanistan despite still being limited under Article 9 of their own Constitution! This is one of the primary reasons we need to leave Iraq [In an orderly manner of course] and concentrate the War on Terrorism within a single primary location rather than the two front war we've been waging since 2003. Obama bringing more troops into Afghanistan is obvious, we do truly need them due to recent problems in Southern Afghanistan.

You still didn't give a specific policy change that shows that Obama is better. You just restated that he is better.

The increase in troop strength was planned way before Obama was elected. So you can't credit him with that.

And putting more troops in Afghanistan is not the answer. The problem is that the vast majority of the Afghan citizens feel disenfranchised because they have no say. Afghanistan cannot be "ruled". Afghanistan is a tribal society, it can never have a strong central government. When Afghanistan had a real king, the king merely sat a sort of advisor to the tribal councils. The only way to pacify Afghanistan is to have governance from the towns, villages, cities and provinces outward with the tribal elders making up the councils.

The US should be dealing directly with the tribal elders in the provinces and giving them aid to build infrastructure, create businesses, build schools and hospitals. But not by dictating things, and not by sending troops. Send emissaries to them that they trust and help them with no strings attached.

But Obama is doing none of this. He is pursuing the same stupid failed policy.

[Hotdiggity11]

You still didn't give a specific policy change that shows that Obama is better. You just restated that he is better.

The increase in troop strength was planned way before Obama was elected. So you can't credit him with that.

And putting more troops in Afghanistan is not the answer. The problem is that the vast majority of the Afghan citizens feel disenfranchised because they have no say. Afghanistan cannot be "ruled". Afghanistan is a tribal society, it can never have a strong central government. When Afghanistan had a real king, the king merely sat a sort of advisor to the tribal councils. The only way to pacify Afghanistan is to have governance from the towns, villages, cities and provinces outward with the tribal elders making up the councils.

The US should be dealing directly with the tribal elders in the provinces and giving them aid to build infrastructure, create businesses, build schools and hospitals. But not by dictating things, and not by sending troops. Send emissaries to them that they trust and help them with no strings attached.

But Obama is doing none of this. He is pursuing the same stupid failed policy.

Sure I did. The Bush Administration has long since forgotten about Afghanistan, we might as well call it the "Forgotten War." The significant difference between Bush and Obama is reducing the number of fronts the "War on Terrorism" is fought on from two to one, with Afghanistan being the new focus instead of Iraq. Why is this beneficial?


As already mentioned, we get far more international AND domestic support on the Afghanistan situation, how long we will maintain that after departing Iraq and escalating in Afghan remains to be seen.


I do agree with allowing Afghanistan to be more self-reliant on how they choose to rebuild their country. It would seem the USA has a certain arrogance when it comes to that much like when we dismantled the Iraq military which has largely become known as a major mistake.