Australian baseball player killed by Oklahoma teens

[brettels]

That's a completely false, biased article based on what that person fantasises in there own head!

[ChalkyDog]

Brettles trust me when I say most people have a very long way to go to even start to comprehend the issues that surround gun control in America.

You simply can't.

To pass a law saying "no more guns" is one thing. To enforce it is entirely different. There is hundreds of years of caselaw on this issue.

The feds are incapable of enforcement of such a law, meaning it's left up to the states - a majority of which will not.

I can get insanely detailed, because I know this subject better than most other subject matters. Wrote my thesis on it and what not. To get into it with a typical American who understand the culture is hard enough, but a foreigner with no grasp of the local situation is bad. As an example, it's like trying to give a detailed explanation of sports betting to a woman who doesn't even watch sports. It's far too involved, and not even worth anybodies time.

There is a long way to go between theory and reality, and it wont be there anytime in my lifetime.

This isn't a knock on you. I don't pretend to understand Australian law and culture, and wouldn't assume I could understand a conversation simply because I have broad opinions on a subject matter.

Anyway:

[opie1988]

I feel like the one indisputable truth we can all take from this thread is that brettels is a ignorant, classless douche.

So at least we were able to get that cleared up.

[Wulfman14]

in india only the military and guards out side banks have guns (and someone told me that is mainly to intimidate anyway, they aint loaded). no civilian carries unless they get one through the black market. its almost impossible to get a gun as a civilian. no license nothing. even the police only carry clubs. these clubs would shatter your bones but not kill you. similar to the UK i believe. you hear about brutal knife attacks now and then but killings/density of pop far less then the US.

[King Mayan]

What beauty!!

[brettels]

I feel like the one indisputable truth we can all take from this thread is that brettels is a ignorant, classless douche.

So at least we were able to get that cleared up.

I would fit right in to america then wouldn't I!!

[Gee]

American Constitution=serious business. It's the basis for most gun advocates arguments and politically unpopular to try and change. The gun lobby is absolutely too strong, but the same could be said about most special interests.

Nationwide regulation would be a start. Currently each state makes there own laws. I can buy an assault rifle in CA, but it has a different clip and ten rounds max. However I could drive 4.5 hours and buy a fully automatic weapon in Nevada. It's pretty stupid.

At least we're on the same page about regulation.

You're also right about the pressure groups, but that is because of the non-compulsory voting system. If the NRA has 30% of the population, but only 50% actually turn out to vote, they are massively over represented.

The right to bear arms can't mean any and all guns whenever you want.

I appreciate and understand a lot of the issues as an outsider, but the aversion to significant regulation and banning of certain weapons just doesn't make sense to me.

[Gee]

What a classless piece of shit thing to say. Are all Aussies stupid cokksukkers like yourself?

What an intelligent thing to say.

One person says something classless and you group the rest of the nation into that.

I don't judge the rest of America for yours or TTwarrior's idiotic postings.

[brettels]

Not to mention opie, it's well known you're a complete moron from day 1.

[BIGSACK]

Just niggas being niggas. Thanks to all of them we have the nfl and nba the way they are.

[brettels]

Just niggas being niggas. Thanks to all of them we have the nfl and nba the way they are.

See why opie, see!

[The Kraken]

Every country is different. What works in Europe or Australlia might not work here. Here, we would rather see these isolated acts of violence than give up our gun rights. We decide what is important to us, you don't get to decide that, no matter how well you think it's worked other places. Be thankful not every country is a mirror image of each other, what a boring world that would be.

[brettels]

Every country is different. What works in Europe or Australlia might not work here. Here, we would rather see these isolated acts of violence than give up our gun rights. We decide what is important to us, you don't get to decide that, no matter how well you think it's worked other places. Be thankful not every country is a mirror image of each other, what a boring world that would be.

It's not like we are different planets

How isolated are these attacks? Seems to be if not an every day thing, a weekly thing.

[ACoochy]

Brettels, i hate guns as much as most aussies but as a realist i understand that with the right connections guns are (unfortunately) relatively easy to get into our country. Its common knowledge that devices such as RC cars and hot water systems are used to smuggle parts of firearms illegally into our borders.

Whilst listening to ABC radio a couple months back it was stated that customs in our country had a failure rate of 49% when it came to stopping the importation if illegal narcotics, firearms and other illegal paraphernalia for 2011. Thats a huge number and a reality check from TV shows such as Border Patrol which has us believe that little if nothing gets through.

Also, go look at our Stats for firearm related deaths. Sure, they are nowhere near pre Port Arthur levels but i believe you'll see small increases in the number of firearm related deaths every year for last 6 years (and on track for keep trend going).

Dont buy into the hype pal. It pains me to say this but guns will always be a problem so long as their is a demand for them, be that legally or illegally.

[brettels]

Brettels, i hate guns as much as most aussies but as a realist i understand that with the right connections guns are (unfortunately) relatively easy to get into our country. Its common knowledge that devices such as RC cars and hot water systems are used to smuggle parts of firearms illegally into our borders.

Whilst listening to ABC radio a couple months back it was stated that customs in our country had a failure rate of 49% when it came to stopping the importation if illegal narcotics, firearms and other illegal paraphernalia for 2011. Thats a huge number and a reality check from TV shows such as Border Patrol which has us believe that little if nothing gets through.

Also, go look at our Stats for firearm related deaths. Sure, they are nowhere near pre Port Arthur levels but i believe you'll see small increases in the number of firearm related deaths every year for last 6 years (and on track for keep trend going).

Dont buy into the hype pal. It pains me to say this but guns will always be a problem so long as their is a demand for them, be that legally or illegally.

Nicely said Acoochy. Of course there's that argument that crime will always be around and guns will get through on the black market and so on. But, do you disagree with me that the gun laws from 1996 (i think that was the year) when howard brought in the new laws and did the buy back has greatly benefited? I think without a doubt America can have a very positive outcome from doing the same.

[bettilimbroke999]

Nicely said Acoochy. Of course there's that argument that crime will always be around and guns will get through on the black market and so on. But, do you disagree with me that the gun laws from 1996 (i think that was the year) when howard brought in the new laws and did the buy back has greatly benefited? I think without a doubt America can have a very positive outcome from doing the same.

Nobody agrees with that cause its absolute horseshit....you had one extraordinary nutjob (Martin Bryant) that shot up some place and formulated your whole laws based around the craziest person in the country...well done

[brettels]

Nobody agrees with that cause its absolute horseshit....you had one extraordinary nutjob (Martin Bryant) that shot up some place and formulated your whole laws based around the craziest person in the country...well done

There were many others before Martin Bryant.

[brooks85]

It is ridiculous how people are talking about gun control like it's the issue. Very similar to people debating democrats or republicans. While you are debating those things, start discussing if vanilla or chocolate ice cream is better.

[brettels]

It is ridiculous how people are talking about gun control like it's the issue. Very similar to people debating democrats or republicans. While you are debating those things, start discussing if vanilla or chocolate ice cream is better.

Blind leading the blind, in your world.

[brooks85]

Blind leading the blind, in your world.

no doubt, especially when they spend time debating gun control and politics.

I was in Sydney in April, comical how people's opinions I heard on what is wrong and right with America. Like talking to a bunch of 4th graders.

[brettels]

no doubt, especially when they spend time debating gun control and politics.

I was in Sydney in April, comical how people's opinions I heard on what is wrong and right with America. Like talking to a bunch of 4th graders.

Go on, explain.

[brooks85]

Go on, explain.

My favorite was how many people supported Obama over there and think Bush is to blame. Half a world away, and people are still blaming bush.

Another fun one is obviously gun control. If you have ever been to America you will see why gun control is irrelevant. The problem has nothing to do with inanimate objects, it is who is holding them.

Another good one is how many people don't anything about their economy or legislation, but that is same everywhere I've been.

For example, gun control in 1996 did nothing. You already had a low murder rate to begin with so the fact it went down is unrelated.

On top of that, the only thing proven to drop by your gun control was suicide rates.

[brettels]

My favorite was how many people supported Obama over there and think Bush is to blame. Half a world away, and people are still blaming bush.

Another fun one is obviously gun control. If you have ever been to America you will see why gun control is irrelevant. The problem has nothing to do with inanimate objects, it is who is holding them.

Another good one is how many people don't anything about their economy or legislation, but that is same everywhere I've been.

For example, gun control in 1996 did nothing. You already had a low murder rate to begin with so the fact it went down is unrelated.

On top of that, the only thing proven to drop by your gun control was suicide rates.

Now that's irony

[brooks85]

Now that's irony

that's a clear sign you are intimated. The infamous "I am to dumb to say anything intelligent as a rebuttle" emoticon.

It's ok, I know more than a lot of people especially on this forum.

[KingJD31]

Brettles do you think a bunch of hood niggaz go grab a pistol permit application ? Or do they get it from jamarcus on the block because they have no fukin shot of passing a background test

[Big Bear]

Brettles do you think a bunch of hood niggaz go grab a pistol permit application ? Or do they get it from jamarcus on the block because they have no fukin shot of passing a background test

most gun owners do not have their guns registered.

Most guns are purchased on the street.

or from friend to a friend even the good ol country boys buy'em like that

[brettels]

Brettles do you think a bunch of hood niggaz go grab a pistol permit application ? Or do they get it from jamarcus on the block because they have no fukin shot of passing a background test

Well considering you can apparently go down to your local walmart and get a gun speaks for itself (apparently, it's what i've heard)

[brettels]

that's a clear sign you are intimated. The infamous "I am to dumb to say anything intelligent as a rebuttle" emoticon.

It's ok, I know more than a lot of people especially on this forum.

You're like a brick wall, there would only be one right opinion, even if not fact. So whats the point.

[Big Bear]

Well considering you can apparently go down to your local walmart and get a gun speaks for itself (apparently, it's what i've heard)

yeah you can. But think about it ...

if you really want to kill someone you dont need a gun

[brettels]

yeah you can. But think about it ...

if you really want to kill someone you dont need a gun

But without a gun, the victim has a much greater chance. And without a gun, more often than not, the offender will reconsider because without the gun, they aren't as invincible any more.

[bettilimbroke999]

There were many others before Martin Bryant.

Australia is an island with a population of 22 million nearly all-whites that had approx 1.1 million guns.

The population of US is 315 million (60% whites, 40% future inmates) that have approximately 310 million guns and growing rapidly due to illegal immigration from open border policy with hell....can you see the slight differences here? Why one might be easier to control than the other?

[NrmlCurvSurfr]

But without a gun, the victim has a much greater chance. And without a gun, more often than not, the offender will reconsider because without the gun, they aren't as invincible any more.

see, you keep going back to this "without a gun", go read ChalkyDog's post and just drop it, like he said, you wont understand and its not worth anyone's time trying to explain to someone without a clue...no offence(well maybe a little)

[brettels]

Australia is an island with a population of 22 million nearly all-whites that had approx 1.1 million guns.

The population of US is 315 million (60% whites, 40% future inmates) that have approximately 310 million guns and growing rapidly due to illegal immigration from open border policy with hell....can you see the slight differences here? Why one might be easier to control than the other?

There are stats that show for both countries on a per 100k people, which some time ago before our law changes were similar, now after the gun buy back and law changed they have changed considerably.

[bettilimbroke999]

There are stats that show for both countries on a per 100k people, which some time ago before our law changes were similar, now after the gun buy back and law changed they have changed considerably.

Because of the changes made to the gun control laws in 1997, gun owners in Australia were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed, a program costing the government more than $500 million dollars. And now the results are in. After 12 months of banning firearms:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent;Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent).
Hot Burglaries are up 300% (where the intruders come in while you are home and knows that you are home).
In the state of Victoria, homicides with firearms are up 300 percent.

Figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms (but increased drastically in the past 12 months). There has been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly. Australian politicians are on the spot and at a loss to explain how no improvement in "safety" has been served after such monumental effort and expense was successfully expended in "ridding society of guns." Their response has been to "wait longer".Their suggestion to citizens has been to build a fortified room in their house, so that when a burglar enters their home, the homeowners may lock themselves in that room while the burglar takes what he wants from their house.At the time of the ban, the Prime Minister said, "self-defense is not a reason for owning a firearm."It's time to state it plainly: Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws only affect the law-abiding citizens. Preventing law-abiding citizens from carrying firearms for self-defense does not end violent crime - it just makes victims more vulnerable! Society benefits from ordinary people who accept the responsibilities of firearm ownership - not from gun-control laws.

[brettels]

Because of the changes made to the gun control laws in 1997, gun owners in Australia were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed, a program costing the government more than $500 million dollars. And now the results are in. After 12 months of banning firearms:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent;Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent).
Hot Burglaries are up 300% (where the intruders come in while you are home and knows that you are home).
In the state of Victoria, homicides with firearms are up 300 percent.

Figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms (but increased drastically in the past 12 months). There has been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly. Australian politicians are on the spot and at a loss to explain how no improvement in "safety" has been served after such monumental effort and expense was successfully expended in "ridding society of guns." Their response has been to "wait longer".Their suggestion to citizens has been to build a fortified room in their house, so that when a burglar enters their home, the homeowners may lock themselves in that room while the burglar takes what he wants from their house.At the time of the ban, the Prime Minister said, "self-defense is not a reason for owning a firearm."It's time to state it plainly: Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws only affect the law-abiding citizens. Preventing law-abiding citizens from carrying firearms for self-defense does not end violent crime - it just makes victims more vulnerable! Society benefits from ordinary people who accept the responsibilities of firearm ownership - not from gun-control laws.

Where did you quote that from?