If Lebron wins 7 Rings then their will be a forever debate between him an Jordan

[MoneyLineDawg]

What makes Lebron a top 5 player of all time at this very moment?

Just his pure talent and dominance vs. the competition.......Can lock you down at any defensive position and can dominate on offense at any position

Just his overall game is unmatched by most

4 MVPs, 2 Championships before age 30

[una13ombr]

In October 1993, Michael Jordan, at the age of 30, had won three straight NBA titles, three straight NBA Finals MVP awards and seven straight NBA scoring titles.

Jordan > Lebron PERIOD


At age 23, Bryant became the youngest player to win three championships.

[reallytho]

Just his pure talent and dominance vs. the competition.......Can lock you down at any defensive position and can dominate on offense at any position

Just his overall game is unmatched by most

4 MVPs, 2 Championships before age 30

Point 1: Tim Duncan DOMINATED the first half of Game 6... A CLOSE OUT game for all the Marbles.... If Lebron can TRULY guard all 5 positions, or, "lock down" as you say, why didn't he get on Duncan in game 6?


Point 2: He has 4 regular season MVPs... and MVPs is the most subjective award in history... They really have no consistent precedent for voting for who they vote for... Shaq averaged 28 / 13 a lot of seasons, pretty much better than Lebron's stat lines in my estimation, he only won MVP ONE time. And besides that, isn't it all about what you do in the post season? Everybody has Brady above Manning, and manning is the dominant regular season player by far.


Point 3: Kobe has 3 Championships before 30



Point 4* Kobe's will to win / determination / clutchness has NEVER been questioned... With Kobe, it's about Will vs Lebron's stats.




You see how easy it is for me to dispute any argument you can make?


To have Lebron top 5, RIGHT NOW, and Kobe no where to be found, is the reason people hate Lebron.



Your comeback argument would probably be something like: "But shaq was the main reason Kobe won his first 3 titles" .... And I can come right back and say, "Greg Popovich is the main reason Lebron won his 2nd title"...


Another fact is, that if you take 2000 Shaq and stick him on the heat these last 3 years instead of wade, Lebron would have 3 titles and ZERO finals MVPs...



Care for an intelligent rebuttal, or concede the argument?

[MoneyLineDawg]

In October 1993, Michael Jordan, at the age of 30, had won three straight NBA titles, three straight NBA Finals MVP awards and seven straight NBA scoring titles.

Jordan > Lebron PERIOD

As of now yes, but Lebron's career isn't close to over

[reallytho]

In October 1993, Michael Jordan, at the age of 30, had won three straight NBA titles, three straight NBA Finals MVP awards and seven straight NBA scoring titles.

Jordan > Lebron PERIOD


At age 23, Bryant became the youngest player to win three championships.

Bro, I got this... lol... Going to wait on his reply.

[una13ombr]

Point 1: Tim Duncan DOMINATED the first half of Game 6... A CLOSE OUT game for all the Marbles.... If Lebron can TRULY guard all 5 positions, or, "lock down" as you say, why didn't he get on Duncan in game 6?


Point 2: He has 4 regular season MVPs... and MVPs is the most subjective award in history... They really have no consistent precedent for voting for who they vote for... Shaq averaged 28 / 14 a lot of seasons, pretty much better than Lebron's stat lines in my estimation, he only won MVP ONE time. And besides that, isn't it all about what you do in the regular season? Everybody has Brady above Manning, and manning is the dominant regular season player by far.


Point 3: Kobe has 3 Championships before 30



Point 4* Kobe's will to win / determination / clutchness has NEVER been questioned... With Kobe, it's about Will vs Lebron's stats.




You see how easy it is for me to dispute any argument you can make?


To have Lebron top 5, RIGHT NOW, and Kobe no where to be found, is the reason people hate Lebron.



Your comeback argument would probably be something like: "But shaq was the main reason Kobe won his first 3 titles" .... And I can come right back and say, "Greg Popovich is the main reason Lebron won his 2nd title"...


Another fact is, that if you take 2000 Shaq and stick him on the heat these last 3 years instead of wade, Lebron would have 3 titles and ZERO finals MVPs...



Care for an intelligent rebuttal, or concede the argument?

This times a million.. finally an educated basketball fan. So tired of these youngbucks who have blinders on to Lebron because its all they know

[MoneyLineDawg]

Point 1: Tim Duncan DOMINATED the first half of Game 6... A CLOSE OUT game for all the Marbles.... If Lebron can TRULY guard all 5 positions, or, "lock down" as you say, why didn't he get on Duncan in game 6?


Point 2: He has 4 regular season MVPs... and MVPs is the most subjective award in history... They really have no consistent precedent for voting for who they vote for... Shaq averaged 28 / 14 a lot of seasons, pretty much better than Lebron's stat lines in my estimation, he only won MVP ONE time. And besides that, isn't it all about what you do in the regular season? Everybody has Brady above Manning, and manning is the dominant regular season player by far.


Point 3: Kobe has 3 Championships before 30



Point 4* Kobe's will to win / determination / clutchness has NEVER been questioned... With Kobe, it's about Will vs Lebron's stats.




You see how easy it is for me to dispute any argument you can make?


To have Lebron top 5, RIGHT NOW, and Kobe no where to be found, is the reason people hate Lebron.



Your comeback argument would probably be something like: "But shaq was the main reason Kobe won his first 3 titles" .... And I can come right back and say, "Greg Popovich is the main reason Lebron won his 2nd title"...


Another fact is, that if you take 2000 Shaq and stick him on the heat these last 3 years instead of wade, Lebron would have 3 titles and ZERO finals MVPs...



Care for an intelligent rebuttal, or concede the argument?

I don't put so much stock into titles anyway when discussing who is the better player because so much circumstance can change that.......I'm just going by watching Lebron and watching Kobe throughout their careers......My opinion Lebron is the better all around player. Kobe is a better jump shooter and that's about it

[Ghenghis Kahn]

though it didn't work in game 7, the spurs game plan against lebron was to let him shoot jumpers.

that shit would've never happened against jordan or kobe.

once lebron becomes a better shooter, he'll be the best.

[MoneyLineDawg]

though it didn't work in game 7, the spurs game plan against lebron was to let him shoot jumpers.

that shit would've never happened against jordan or kobe.

once lebron becomes a better shooter, he'll be the best.

Jordan and Kobe are much better oustide shooters and more deadly from the perimeter.....They are completely different types of players

They are shooting guards and Lebron is anything but

[reallytho]

I don't put so much stock into titles anyway when discussing who is the better player because so much circumstance can change that.......I'm just going by watching Lebron and watching Kobe throughout their careers......My opinion Lebron is the better all around player. Kobe is a better jump shooter and that's about it

Hmm.... Bro, now you're changing your argument... Now, you "dont put much stock in titles"?


I asked you why you have Lebron top 5, and you mentioned titles..... Now that I nullify that, you say you dont care about titles?


That would be like going into to court on a murder trial, and saying your alibi was "you weren't in the state at the time of the murder"...



But then, when I prove you WERE in the state.... You try and just plead insanity. [[GUILTY! OF STANNING... SENTENCE 25 YEARS of never watching another NBA game]]


With all due respect my friend, you have no more credibility on this subject.



It was fun exposing that though.


Thanks

[swiftyj]

lebron can win 10 and i will still think mj is better. just my opinion mj will be the best ever. if they didnt play in different eras this debate would have more meaning

[MoneyLineDawg]

Hmm.... Bro, now you're changing your argument... Now, you "dont put much stock in titles"?


I asked you why you have Lebron top 5, and you mentioned titles..... Now that I nullify that, you say you dont care about titles?


That would be like going into to court on a murder trial, and saying your alibi was "you weren't in the state at the time of the murder"...



But then, when I prove you WERE in the state.... You try and just plead insanity. [[GUILTY! OF STANNING... SENTENCE 25 YEARS of never watching another NBA game]]


With all due respect my friend, you have no more credibility on this subject.



It was fun exposing that though.


Thanks

Kobe is not on Lebron's level plain and simple.........I added the titles before age 30 because I know how everyone loves to harp on how many titles everyone has

And I don't agree with you about MVP's.....Everyone knows Lebron was the best layer this season by far.....and whadda ya know? He won the MVP........Kobe never dominated the league the way Lebron did throughout this whole season.....FACT

How is Kobe a better basketball player than Lebron?

[una13ombr]

Typical lebron #heat nation fans, backtracking out of an argument they know nothing about. Its impossible to argue with someone who just started watching basketball 3 years ago

[Otters27]

You seem to be capable of holding an intelligent conversation.... So let me ask you this:


Why, RIGHT NOW, is Lebron James ahead of Kobe Bryant (let alone Jordan), when Kobe has 5 titles, and Lebron has 2? ... (I'll wait

I am just comparing James vs. Jordan. I think Kobe having Shaq negates him from this conversation. So it looks like Jordan was 28 when he won his first title. Lebron is 28 and just won his second. Plus he probably won't try to go play in the NFL like Jordan wen to baseball. So Jordan also lost a few years there. I am only saying that if Lebron continues to win championships every year and makes it to 7 then people will have to have a debate about who is the best. I really don't think he will win 7 though. Realistically James has about 9 years to win 5 more championships. Jordan after his first had about 7 years to win his 5 more if you count the baseball thing. So yes years wise James is ahead of the pace it is just a matter of getting it done from here on out.

[MoneyLineDawg]

Typical lebron #heat nation fans, backtracking out of an argument they know nothing about. Its impossible to argue with someone who just started watching basketball 3 years ago

I hate the heat but respect talent.....When has Kobe dominated the NBA like Lebron did this season? The answer is never

[una13ombr]

I am just comparing James vs. Jordan. I think Kobe having Shaq negates him from this conversation. So it looks like Jordan was 28 when he won his first title. Lebron is 28 and just won his second. Plus he probably won't try to go play in the NFL like Jordan wen to baseball. So Jordan also lost a few years there. I am only saying that if Lebron continues to win championships every year and makes it to 7 then people will have to have a debate about who is the best. I really don't think he will win 7 though. Realistically James has about 9 years to win 5 more championships. Jordan after his first had about 7 years to win his 5 more if you count the baseball thing. So yes years wise James is ahead of the pace it is just a matter of getting it done from here on out.

Kobe is out of the conversation because he had shaq... LOL
do you see who lebron is playing with? Get real tons of 3 point shooters and the big 3 (I dont care how bad they suck it up some nights) They got to where they were because of their deep ass team

Kobe is FOR SURE in the conversation

[una13ombr]

I hate the heat but respect talent.....When has Kobe dominated the NBA like Lebron did this season? The answer is never

When has kobe dominated an NBA season?



I could go all day with this. YOU JUST STARTED WATCHING BASKETBALL.. I get that I really do.. but just because something is in the past doesn't mean it never happened.

[una13ombr]

In the 2002–03 season, Bryant averaged 30 points per game and embarked on a historic run, posting 40 or more points in nine consecutive games while averaging 40.6 in the entire month of February. In addition, he averaged 6.9 rebounds, 5.9 assists, and 2.2 steals per game, all career highs to that point. Bryant was once again voted to both the All-NBA and All-Defensive 1st teams, and came in third place in voting for the MVP award.

* MVP awards are bullshit, Kobe has always been shafted in my opinion so lets stop talking about those


Bryant also became the first player since 1964 to score 45 points or more in four consecutive games, joining Chamberlain and Baylor as the only players ever to do so. For the month of January, Bryant averaged 43.4 points per game, the eighth highest single month scoring average in NBA history and highest for any player other than Chamberlain

Hasn't dominated a season my ass

[MoneyLineDawg]

****

[stevenash]

Jordan never needed Pippen to BAIL HIM OUT

Correct,spot on!

This is the definition of clutch (without Pippen)
p.s. what some of you guys call a push off, I call a love tap.

[AllOfYouLose]

Woooooh, un-BULL-ievable! Not only did he make the basket to bring the bulls within one point, he goes down on D and steals the ball (defense wins championships btw) then walks the ball down full court (did not look at another teamate on the court) he knew he was the BEST and he was taking the final shot...then, well to all u putsays who say he pushed off, that was a move that he prolly learned on the street courts foolin around, cont....he breaks dudes ankles and with 100% confidence no doubt at all draaaains the game winner! And with a giant smile holds up the number six to allow all the jazz fans to soak er up...wen lebron took the game tying shot in game 6 I guess it was a good thing he had bosh to rebound his poor shot not to mention ray Allen (a better shooter) to sink the shot to go into OT...but nooooo lebron did it all and does everything himself cuz he is the king and he is the best, well false he is a huge douche!

[AllOfYouLose]

Correct,spot on!

This is the definition of clutch (without Pippen)
p.s. what some of you guys call a push off, I call a love tap.

Thank you for the great memory Nash!

[eidolon]

Refs? Lol.


Pop literally GAVE them this title, on purpose.


I feel SORRY for anyone who doesn't see it.... Keep buying your jerseys and wasting your time watching these fairy tale games.

Do you think the Heat's coach is good?

[TheMoneyShot]

From watching Jordan when I was younger... to watching James now... I can only conclude 1 thing...

If Jordan wanted to beat you... HE COULD. Always came through as though it seemed.

When James tries... sometimes he doesn't come through. It simply makes you wonder.

[eidolon]

reallytho = lakerfag

[WvGambler]

What makes Lebron a top 5 player of all time at this very moment?

The fact that there have never been 5 other players better than him.

[reallytho]

The fact that there have never been 5 other players better than him.

Define "Fact" in this instance.

[reallytho]

I am just comparing James vs. Jordan. I think Kobe having Shaq negates him from this conversation. So it looks like Jordan was 28 when he won his first title. Lebron is 28 and just won his second. Plus he probably won't try to go play in the NFL like Jordan wen to baseball. So Jordan also lost a few years there. I am only saying that if Lebron continues to win championships every year and makes it to 7 then people will have to have a debate about who is the best. I really don't think he will win 7 though. Realistically James has about 9 years to win 5 more championships. Jordan after his first had about 7 years to win his 5 more if you count the baseball thing. So yes years wise James is ahead of the pace it is just a matter of getting it done from here on out.

You said you don't count Kobe because he had Shaq...


Let's take one of those titles Kobe won with Shaq.... Can you objectively say, having Shaquille Oneal on his team was more important than all of the luck (and bad coaching) that transpired in game 6 of this finals?


Here's something I can tell you:


1- Kobe could've still POSSIBLY won a title in those years he had Shaq without Shaq... It was a possibility. even if a small one.

2- It would be IMPOSSIBLE for Lebron to have won a title this year, if not for Pop's horrid (fixed?) coaching, and Ray Allen hitting 1 shot.



Basically, I think it's a bit ignorant to say you won't count Kobe's titles with Shaq, but still count a title that you and I honestly know the heat should not have won.


It's a double standard and ridiculous, honestly.



"His title doesn't count because he wasn't the best player"


"His title does count even though I know he had NO BUSINESS winning it"



Seriously?

[qsilver335]

Ray Allen misses a 3: Lebron is the biggest choker in sports history
Ray Allen makes a 3: Lebron can go down as the greatest sports player ever

^truth

Sports are funny like that. 2 missed free throws and a couple of lucky ball bounces for offensive rebounds lead to two made 3's = LeBron is a legend. Could have easily been LeBron is a choker and he has lost 75% of the NBA Finals he has been a part of.

[WvGambler]

Define "Fact" in this instance.

The definition of Fact tends to be the same in all instances. The definition of a word is it's meaning, which doesn't fluctuate from sentence to sentence.

Fact: Noun

1. A thing that is indisputably the case.

[reallytho]

The definition of Fact tends to be the same in all instances. The definition of a word is it's meaning, which doesn't fluctuate from sentence to sentence.

Fact: Noun

1. A thing that is indisputably the case.

So it's indisputable that their are not 5 players in NBA history better than Lebron James.... Interesting.


I'll go read up on it.

[InTheDrink]

really though

[ChalkyDog]

The definition of Fact tends to be the same in all instances. The definition of a word is it's meaning, which doesn't fluctuate from sentence to sentence.

Fact: Noun

1. A thing that is indisputably the case.

Wilt, Oscar, MJ, Magic, Kareem and arguably Bill Russell or Larry Bird.

There are 5 (Plus 2), that make this "fact" debatable.

LeBron might detestably make that top 5, and push out Wilt. However, that isn't the case right now.

[stevenash]

The fact that there have never been 5 other players better than him.

Fact:Jabbar was better
Fact:Russell was better
Fact:Chamberlain was better
Fact: Magic was better
Fact: Kobe is better
Fact: Jordan was better
Fact: There are five or so more you can argue that was better, or just as good.

[BigDofBA]

Lebron is a great talent and player but he hasn't reached that Kobe/Jordan level of of killer instinct and refusal to lose.

I mean, we are one free throw or missed Ray Allen three from not even having this discussion. Lebron has went to three game 7s in the past two years and Jordan never went to one.

Lebron won't win 7 rings. If he does, then yes, we can have the discussion.

He needs to win a few more titles. Hell, he only has half as many as Duncan. I'm slowly giving him more and more credit but that's because he was won titles the last two season. If he keeps it up, I'll welcome the conversation more.