and people think brady isnt best all time?

[rsnnh12]

He got away with intentional grounding on a late play... and then Vinny nailed the kick. Defense won that game. QB stats? Brady didn't even have to win the AFCCG to get to play in the SB and he got a do-over vs the Raiders when he fumbled away the game... unlike every other BIG NAME QB who actually won 2 or 3 games to get to their first SB and some won 4 games overall, something Brady has NEVER done.

You mean like Peyton throwing 3 or 4 TDs to 7 INTs in the playoffs the year the Colts won the Super Bowl?

[stevenash]

shits fukin laughable. guy is the best ever and its honestly not questionable.

No denying Brady is a top 10 all time QB, but Johnny U and Bart Starr got it done in an era when linebackers could launch into QB's like spears and defensive backs could ride wide outs 30 yards down the field.

When Starr and Johnny U played, defenses got away with pretty much murder.
If Brady played in the 60's he'd be a little better than ordinary.

While we are on the subject of Bart Starr, he's got the second highest passing rating (playoffs) in the mother freaking history of the NFL, was SB MVP in SBI, SBII, and has five championship rings.

He was so good, Vince Lombardi allowed Starr to call every play from scrimmage from the huddle.

Dude, as good as Brady is, he could't hold no less sniff Bart Starr's jock

[stevenash]

He's also 16-6 in the playoffs

Bart Starr is 9 and 1

[slacker00]

Brady's playoff numbers: 5285 yards, 38 TDs 20 Int. Those are MVP numbers, against the best the NFL has to offer.

[slacker00]

Good points about Bradshaw and Starr. Those two are never really in the discussion of "all-time" greats, but should be.

[Mr Handicapable]

Montana was great but HOF Coach Bill Walsh basically invented the West coast offense and Jerry Rice, Roger Craig, Ronnie Lott, etc. didn't hurt. SF was always LOADED year after year. Brady is similar w/Belechik but if he wins 4 SBs w/2 close losses then he has to be #1.

Personally though...I'm just as impressed w/guys like Elway or PManning that had to carry teams by themselves. Elway went to 5 SBs (2-3) and never had much help til Terrell Davis came along. Yeah PM had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, etc. but Tony Dungy was never that great of a coach....look at the Pro Bowl level talent he had in Tampa and never won anything. Indy's generic/boring Cover-2 never did much in big games either....Brees was like 32 for 38 in their win over Indy. Brady avg. like 30 ppg vs Indy in their matchups and Phillip Rivers always tore them a new @$$hole too. You never saw the old 49ers with Romanowski, Lott, etc. get shredded like that. NE never did either with Seymour, Bruschi, Ty Law, McGinest, Asante Samuel, etc. I don't know how many times I saw teams rip off 9-10 minute TD drives vs Indy in the playoffs. PManning can't do much without the ball. The most talented Indy team lost to Pitt in 05 after Vanderjagt missed a FG....but Venateri covered pretty boy Brady's @$$ every time.

[str]

Actually, Starr and Bradshaw along with Unitas , Graham and Baugh , are in almost all "all time greatest" discussions except in here.

People say all time in here but they talk about the last 20 -30 years.

I understand it is because of age, that happens with every generation, but all time means all time, NOT since someone was born .

[Mr Handicapable]

You mean like Peyton throwing 3 or 4 TDs to 7 INTs in the playoffs the year the Colts won the Super Bowl?

All I know is....when they had to score to beat Brady in the 2nd half of the AFC Championship....PFM put up 32 points on them and Brady threw the game ending pick. If PM had 6 cupcakes like Buff, Miami, and the Jets then he has homefield every year and maybe Brady is on the outside looking in.

[stevenash]

Actually, Starr and Bradshaw along with Unitas and Graham , are in almost all "all time greatest" discussions except in here.

People say all time in here but they talk about the last 20 -30 years.

I understand it is because of age, that happens with every generation, but all time means all time, NOT since someone was born .

Spot on, I've seen full game tapes of Starr in his prime, what defenses did to QB's in that era was almost criminal.
NFL then stood for National Football league, today, is still enjoy the product, but today the NFL stands for National Fairy League.

[str]

Spot on, I've seen full game tapes of Starr in his prime, what defenses did to QB's in that era was almost criminal.
NFL then stood for National Football league, today, is still enjoy the product, but today the NFL stands for National Fairy League.

Because of age, I saw a lot of those first hand as a kid. Lol.

[stevenash]

I was pretty much in diapers when Starr was winning those SB's.
My dad's guy was Y.A. Tittle, but he told me Starr was the best ever.

[Mr Handicapable]

Spot on, I've seen full game tapes of Starr in his prime, what defenses did to QB's in that era was almost criminal.
NFL then stood for National Football league, today, is still enjoy the product, but today the NFL stands for National Fairy League.

You can't compare era's like that though in the NFL. Yeah they could get away w/everything in Starr's day but D-lineman weren't 270 w/8 percent body fat running 4.5 flat either like Freeney in his heyday or this Aldon Smith guy. 75% of the league wasn't black back then either. Ever seen clips of the great Jim Brown running the ball? White guys running like my dad chasing him and most of them were smaller than Brown.

Its not apples to oranges....its bb guns to assault rifles

[stevenash]

You can't compare era's like that though in the NFL. Yeah they could get away w/everything in Starr's day but D-lineman weren't 270 w/8 percent body fat running 4.5 flat either like Freeney in his heyday or this Aldon Smith guy. 75% of the league wasn't black back then either. Ever seen clips of the great Jim Brown running the ball? White guys running like my dad chasing him and most of them were smaller than Brown.

Its not apples to oranges....its bb guns to assault rifles

That's what makes these topics fun.

[rsnnh12]

Yeah he can thank his defense for that super bowl. 27 pass attempts and 145 yards.....lol

oh wow, he led them to a FG, wow. all impressive wins...by a fg.

Montana-
First SB vs Cin, 22 pass attempts for 157 yards and a TD. 1 rushing TD. He didn't rely on the D though, right?
Next playoffs, gets his team into a 21-0 hole and doesn't get them on the board til the 4th quarter. Lose.
Lose to Giants while only putting up 3 points. Montana completes 55% of passes with an INT
Gets knocked out of playoffs with a concussion, but went a whopping 8-15 for 98 yards and 2 INTs before that (1 returned for a TD). They lose 49-3. Down 28-3 when Montana finishes
Goes 12-26 for 109 yards and a pick 6 as an 11 point fav to the Vikings. Pulled for Steve Young.


See how easy it is to make greats look bad? Every star has had bad games. Montana is still widely considered the GOAT, even with a playoff resume that includes some awful performances. It happens. They're going against some of the best athletes in the world, no one can win every time.

[rsnnh12]

All I know is....when they had to score to beat Brady in the 2nd half of the AFC Championship....PFM put up 32 points on them and Brady threw the game ending pick. If PM had 6 cupcakes like Buff, Miami, and the Jets then he has homefield every year and maybe Brady is on the outside looking in.

Because the AFC South was so tough, right? Going against the Jags, Titans, and expansion Texans 6 games a year, all warm weather or in a dome must have been brutal

[Mr Handicapable]

I was little when he played but Roger Staubach was a fkn monster back in the day too. I think he missed some prime years with his Navy commitment too. I don't know how many times they'd be down 20 with 6 minutes left and pull it out. The Steelers were better than them but he was much better than Bradshaw imo and I saw them both.

[PAULYPOKER]

Is putting up stats the goal of every QB? No not a one.


Is coming through and leading your team to victory when the pressure is on every time when it counts every QB's goal? Yes every single one.

Now how many Qb's are worthy of this list? 5 ...........

Montana 4-0
Bradshaw 4-0
Aikman 3-0
Starr 2-0
Plunkett 2-0

Pending
E.Manning 2-0
Rodgers 1-0
Brees 1-0

To make all time list the QB must win at least 2 Superbowls without any losses,IMO...........

[Mr Handicapable]

Because the AFC South was so tough, right? Going against the Jags, Titans, and expansion Texans 6 games a year, all warm weather or in a dome must have been brutal :rolleyes

Eddie George, Steve McNair, Jeff Fisher,etc.....they were like 6 inches from a SB ring. The Jags had Fred Taylor and then MJD....they were always pretty strong up until 3-4 years ago. Much tougher than the AFC East which has sucked for 15 years except for a few 9-7 Jets teams that overachieved with Dirty Sanchez.

[stevenash]

Is putting up stats the goal of every QB? No not a one.


Is coming through and leading your team to victory when the pressure is on every time when it counts every QB's goal? Yes every single one.

Now how many Qb's are worthy of this list? 5 ...........

Montana 4-0
Bradshaw 4-0
Aikman 3-0
Starr 2-0
Plunkett 2-0

Pending
E.Manning 2-0
Rodgers 1-0
Brees 1-0

To make all time list the QB must win at least 2 Superbowls without any losses,IMO...........

Starr would have five SB rings, but he won three championship games before the 'label' SB, then won the first two SB's in history while winning the MVP award with those rings.

[rsnnh12]

Eddie George, Steve McNair, Jeff Fisher,etc.....they were like 6 inches from a SB ring. The Jags had Fred Taylor and then MJD....they were always pretty strong up until 3-4 years ago. Much tougher than the AFC East which has sucked for 15 years except for a few 9-7 Jets teams that overachieved with Dirty Sanchez.

11-5 Dolphins one year. Both divisions have the same amount of playoff teams since the South was created if you take out the Pats and Colts. They've been equally weak. And again, the dome/warm weather makes a huge difference.

[str]

I was little when he played but Roger Staubach was a fkn monster back in the day too. I think he missed some prime years with his Navy commitment too. I don't know how many times they'd be down 20 with 6 minutes left and pull it out. The Steelers were better than them but he was much better than Bradshaw imo and I saw them both.

Staubach missed 4 years with the Navy commitment.

Also, he was color blind his entire NFL career.

He was indeed great.

I too would have taken him over Bradshaw but Bradshaw won more Super Bowls and that's what catches peoples eyes more than anything I guess.

[stevenash]

Some posters here are riding Matt Ryan's rooster, look at his weapons, Jones, Hernandez, Turner, White........
What has he won exactly?

[stevenash]

Staubach missed 4 years with the Navy commitment.

Also, he was color blind his entire NFL career.

He was indeed great.

I too would have taken him over Bradshaw but Bradshaw won more Super Bowls and that's what catches peoples eyes more than anything I guess.

Hated Roger and his Cowboy's, but a top ten all time great.

[str]

Is putting up stats the goal of every QB? No not a one.


Is coming through and leading your team to victory when the pressure is on every time when it counts every QB's goal? Yes every single one.

Now how many Qb's are worthy of this list? 5 ...........

Montana 4-0
Bradshaw 4-0
Aikman 3-0
Starr 2-0
Plunkett 2-0

Pending
E.Manning 2-0
Rodgers 1-0
Brees 1-0

To make all time list the QB must win at least 2 Superbowls without any losses,IMO...........

Otto Graham played 10 years and went to 10 Championship games ( Not called the Super Bowl yet)

Won 84% of starts and went 7-3 in those Championship games.

[str]

Hated Roger and his Cowboy's, but a top ten all time great.

Yeah Me Too.

Being a D.C. guy you could only imagine.

That said, I didn't like the Steelers much either and had great respect for Staubach's overall game.

[str]

Some posters here are riding Matt Ryan's rooster, look at his weapons, Jones, Hernandez, Turner, White........
What has he won exactly?

I think he won his bowl game but not sure.

[Mr Handicapable]

Is putting up stats the goal of every QB? No not a one.


Is coming through and leading your team to victory when the pressure is on every time when it counts every QB's goal? Yes every single one.


Dan Marino >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jim Plunkett.....don't get carried away with the rings alone. Steve Kerr has like 3 rings but I'm pretty sure John Stockton could beat his @$$ any day of the week. Same goes for football.

Now how many Qb's are worthy of this list? 5 ...........

Montana 4-0
Bradshaw 4-0
Aikman 3-0
Starr 2-0
Plunkett 2-0

Pending
E.Manning 2-0
Rodgers 1-0
Brees 1-0

To make all time list the QB must win at least 2 Superbowls without any losses,IMO...........

Rings argument is not everything...not even close. Dan Marino infinitely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jim Plunkett

[str]

Wasn't a Cleveland Browns guy either but it drives me nuts that the only Graham that most have ever heard of in hear are Billy, Nash, or Crackers.

[str]

Rings argument is not everything...not even close. Dan Marino infinitely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jim Plunkett

No doubt IMO.

[stevenash]

Yeah Me Too.

Being a D.C. guy you could only imagine.

That said, I didn't like the Steelers much either and had great respect for Staubach's overall game.

NYC guy, my guy was Phil Simms.

Some of these kids here need to get a hold of a video of the "Ice Bowl" Championship game.
Starr went 5 for 5 on the game winning drive and called the famous sneak into the end zone.
What was the temp. that game? 18 below or something?

[str]

NYC guy, my guy was Phil Simms.

Some of these kids here need to get a hold of a video of the "Ice Bowl" Championship game.
Starr went 5 for 5 on the game winning drive and called the famous sneak into the end zone.
What was the temp. that game? 18 below or something?

Yes, and -45 wind chill.

I think the heating system for the field broke and when the tarp came off, it froze in minutes.

Pretty sure it was that.

[PAULYPOKER]

Otto Graham played 10 years and went to 10 Championship games ( Not called the Super Bowl yet)

Won 84% of starts and went 7-3 in those Championship games.

If the TEAM is good enough to get to the big dance it is then the leaders responsibility known as the QB to lead them to victory every single time I don't care if they are in 100 championships if you lose one you don't make the list.........

Starr would have five SB rings, but he won three championship games before the 'label' SB, then won the first two SB's in history while winning the MVP award with those rings.

Did Starr lose any championships?

If not, he is number 1 on the list..

If he did, he is no longer on this list....

[str]

Simms was so good.

That damn tight end Bovaro ? was like Velcro.

[stevenash]

If the TEAM is good enough to get to the big dance it is then the leaders responsibility known as the QB to lead them to victory every single time I don't care if they are in 100 championships if you lose one you don't make the list.........





Did Starr lose any championships?

If not, he is number 1 on the list..

If he did, he is no longer on this list....

9 and 1 post season record.
End of discussion

[str]

If the TEAM is good enough to get to the big dance it is then the leaders responsibility known as the QB to lead them to victory every single time I don't care if they are in 100 championships if you lose one you don't make the list.........





Did Starr lose any championships?

If not, he is number 1 on the list..

If he did, he is no longer on this list....

9-1 I think.

That list is a bitch.