TOW Temporary FORUM and updates

[jm765]

/??

Bet 4 Aces is beyond Financial problems they seem broke. but they have lines and are taking deposits, my buddy called and the lady said he could make a deposit with a 15% sign up bonus. I have no where really to turn except posting here, Mostly just venting.

[SwampyJ]

Today, July 4, 2006, is the one month anniversary of my requested payout. I have sent an email everyday to No Juice and for the past 5 days I had not received a single reply. The staff from TOW has not posted in this thread in a couple of days and their forum is still down (down time: 1 week). I consider myself a patient man, but this situation has tested that to the extreme. The time has come that No Juice, TOW or both to give us specific information of when we will receive payment. I am tired of the vague responses of "within next week" and "soon". I respectfully request concrete details in regards to when we will be paid.

SwampyJ

[jm765]

Bet 4 aces is good as gone. Where is Roberto at TOW>???

[Donny]

Guys i understand your frustration, but isnt it time to realize that you fell for a guy who not only cares for his own money mainly, but is also very slow when it comes to warn players about those books and generelly looks like as if he knows nothing about what really goes on there?
Why do you think Roberto advertises for those horrible books?

If i were you i would look for help from Bill, and maybe the Shrink from EOG, and forget about Roberto...
if they cant help you are probably screwed, sorry.

And btw hi all, lol.

[SwampyJ]

Bet 4 aces is good as gone. Where is Roberto at TOW>???

jm765, I understand and feel your frustration thru your posts.
I think you are right about b4aces. I read on Major Wager that moving vans were at b4aces's building moving out office equiptment. I do not know if it is true, but if it is, then it is a horrible sign. I was one of the lucky ones in regards to b4aces. I had problems with them in April/May. It took me 2 weeks to get paid, but I did get my money. But I have the No juice thing hanging around my neck like an anchor.

I hope the poster, Donny, is wrong, but day by day I am beginning to feel he might be right.

SwampyJ

[SwampyJ]

Hello TOW staff. Any info?

SwampyJ

[marc]

Wouldn't suprise me if bet4 closes shop. But i think the owners realize that based upon where they reside, they have no choice but to pay off the players

[jumper]

if mauricio gomez is in any way connected with ownership of bet4aces there can be NO excuse or forgiveness for tow to allow this know scam operator to continue to perpetrate his scams.in order to promote a book it is reasonable to know who the principles are.just like my anger towards john,mgr of bet4aces,tow shares responsibility inherent in operating a site that profits from marketing the trust his members place in him

[yokspot]

Any updates on when the TOW forum will be back? I was told Tuesday at the latest, it's now Wednesday and still down. Eight days and counting.

[tacomax]

To be fair to Roberto, did he actually specify which Tuesday?

[isetcap]

To be fair to Roberto, did he actually specify which Tuesday?

I think it will be the Tuesday after the whole bet4aces and nojuice debacles have ceased being frontpage topics.

[SwampyJ]

Hello TOW staff. Are you out there? Any info?

SwampyJ

[marc]

SwampyJ,

Bet4aces has basically said no payouts until September (interesting how they are pushing it off until football season). Charile who is the only one there who has been honest still feels strongly that everyone will be paid in the end.

As for NJ, they keep insisting they will pay. But they just have to find all these mssing wires.

Until either of these books actually has money in their neteller account there really is no "update." if Tow were to report every time eithe rbook mentions a new payout date, all the "updates" would ultimately prove to be false.

In case you are interested, I've heard that the latest "update" from No juice is that everyone will be paid this weekend.

[slash]

SwampyJ,

Bet4aces has basically said no payouts until September (interesting how they are pushing it off until football season).

How do you know that it was Bet4Aces who said that?

[SwampyJ]

SwampyJ,

Bet4aces has basically said no payouts until September (interesting how they are pushing it off until football season). Charile who is the only one there who has been honest still feels strongly that everyone will be paid in the end.

As for NJ, they keep insisting they will pay. But they just have to find all these mssing wires.

Until either of these books actually has money in their neteller account there really is no "update." if Tow were to report every time eithe rbook mentions a new payout date, all the "updates" would ultimately prove to be false.

In case you are interested, I've heard that the latest "update" from No juice is that everyone will be paid this weekend.

Thanks Marc. I appreciate the info because without the posters here at SBR, I would not have any info. No Juice has not answered my emails for the last week and the TOW staff has not posted in days. I am starting to feel real guilty about using SBR's forum to get answers from another forum. No Juice is huge pain in my neck and I hope the live up to their promises.

SwampyJ

[SBR_John]

Swampy,
I feel your frustration. You are more than welcome to use this forum to exchange information on these troubled books. I wish there was more that we could do.

[SwampyJ]

Swampy,
I feel your frustration. You are more than welcome to use this forum to exchange information on these troubled books. I wish there was more that we could do.

Thank you SBR_John. I cannot speak for the others that are in a similar situation as I am, but SBR has done quite a lot for me by just the gesture of allowing me to use this forum to try to gather info in the hope of getting my money out of No Juice. All I know is that I am going to do a helllllllllllllllll of alot of research before I put my money into another book.

Once again, thanks

SwampyJ

[yokspot]

Bet4aces has basically said no payouts until September (interesting how they are pushing it off until football season). Charile who is the only one there who has been honest still feels strongly that everyone will be paid in the end.

I still don't get this. Last I heard, B4As were insolvent (SBR report) and they were apparently packing up and leaving. While the latter may have been exaggerated, I believe the SBR report came from B4As themselves.

Having substantial invested interests myself I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but talk about "September" is pie-in-the-sky as far as I can see.

[yokspot]

Wrong thread for specific book-talk, I know, but just to confirm the above:

07.01.2006 (01:39 PM CST)
SBR Bill Dozer reports: Bet4Aces (SBR rating F) management confirms insolvency. Manager Charlie tells SBR that the sportsbook does not have player balances, and the problems are beyond the transferring of funds to merchant accounts. Charlie, who was brought in last month to assist with finances, says he has not been given access to funds as promised, and will leave Bet4Aces early this month. Bet4Aces continues to take deposits and should be considered a SCAM.

How else are we supposed to interpret this? The manager has said they are insolvent. This is the most up to date information we have.

[marc]

Slash,

I spoke to Charlie over at bet4aces yesterday. He still expressed optimism that everyone would be paid. But he didn't want to risk his own reputation by staying with a book who had not lived up to thier promises.

I think the reason for optimism in the case of bet4aces, is that the owners apparently do have the money to pay, and they reside in a jurisdiction where bookmaking is illegal. So they have a lot to risk if they simply tried to walk away.

[Uncle B]

Swampy,
I feel your frustration. You are more than welcome to use this forum to exchange information on these troubled books. I wish there was more that we could do.

well, from the sound of things, there is more SBR might be able to do to help the players....IF, TOW would just submit to sharing the true b4a's database.

the fact that players funds are in jeopordy, just because roberto doesn't want to be exposed for posting exaggerated numbers about nojuice (no telling what the motive was this time), is just inexcusable and disgusting, imo.


Screw your fragile little ego, Roberto, your reputation is garbage now anyways, put that crap aside, and let SBR assist in getting the players some sort of relief.

Nobody is expecting the *player protection funds* to actually exist, so, the least you can do is allow a real watchdog site to assist in getting those playeys you set up with this scam outfit, a bailout.

Why the players aren't demanding this, is beyond me.

[SBR_John]

I think the reason for optimism in the case of bet4aces, is that the owners apparently do have the money to pay, and they reside in a jurisdiction where bookmaking is illegal. So they have a lot to risk if they simply tried to walk away.

I would have agreed a 100% with that 3 weeks ago. But if they were standup guys they wouldnt have to weigh if they HAD to pay or not.

As for ogdnutts blistering commentary; I have to wonder if tow is hoping for a hail mary. Both of these deals have been shopped hard. I suggested a while back that tow get major wager or shrink involved. Unfortunately, no one is going to trust a database handed over by tow at this point. It will have to be verified by either the bailout book or a 3rd party or both. I understand why they want to handle this on their own and letting SBR help they see as business suicide. But if they can just secure a bailout or convince these scams to pay, folks will to some degree forgive and forget.

[yokspot]

Unfortunately, no one is going to trust a database handed over by tow at this point. It will have to be verified by either the bailout book or a 3rd party or both. I understand why they want to handle this on their own and letting SBR help they see as business suicide. But if they can just secure a bailout or convince these scams to pay, folks will to some degree forgive and forget.

We can also supply our own information, no? It would be unfair to the non-forum readers (if there ARE any non-forum readers at either of these books), and also incomplete, but it might give a decent idea, from which maybe an absolute total could be estimated. We can certainly all at least supply screenshots of our account numbers and balances.

Probably not that simple though .

EVEN if Roberto were to not come through on this - and I'm not suggesting or presuming that this will be the case in the slightest - we would at worst be war-weary but relieved to have survived, and I doubt that any hard feelings would be lasting in those circumstances.

Whatever happens here, in terms of getting hold of databases or whatever else, I hope actions will be determined by the players' best interests and not individual pride.

[SwampyJ]

Pride can make you stubborn and do things you know is not the right thing to do. However, lost pride can be regained and make the character of person stronger.

In a related subject, anyone heard when the TOW forum will be up and running again?

SwampyJ

[Donny]

Cant you mail Roberto? I dont think the forum makes such a big difference.

[SwampyJ]

Cant you mail Roberto? I dont think the forum makes such a big difference.

Yes, I have emailed TOW, but I have not got a response as of yet. As for the forum, since TOW has/had been our primary source of info regarding No Juice and Bet4aces (due to them advertising on his site), I beleive it is best for a majority of the posts on this subect be in their forum. I very much appreciate SBR letting us use this forum for those affected by this situation to voice our concerns and for offering assistance in helping us retrieve our funds, but I prefer not to clutter this forum with our complaints. I think TOW should help us clean up this mess. If he cant then I will respectfully ask the people here for assistance. Shit, I am getting too long winded on my posts.

SwampyJ

[SBR_John]

Here is a post from Charlie from Bet4Aces

Charlie B4A to: John, Bill and members

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I usually don't respond to threads or post on forums but this time I have something to say.

John, my respects to you because I believe you are an honest man but unfortunately I wish you were a little bit more objective when people post and trashes books or other people without having the facts or telling the truth of the fact.

Yes, B4A have delayed their payments, yes, I made a statement in which I told everyone that this company had financial problems due to delays on their own funding in order to pay all players. John, just like I told everyone I have spoken over the phone, it is going to take 1 month and half or 2 months before everyone gets paid. This time frame was giving to me, by their CFO in USA. They will work hard in making this time frame shorter but I had to stick to the original. (I have to be honest). The owners made a commitment to make sure everyone gets paid.

My recommendations to them over the weekend was to, not take any more deposits, let players wager if they wish to, while this situation comes to an end and to make sure that phone lines are available to give updates as to their payouts status.

What do I mean by you being objective? Well, I had the honor to work for you and I can honestly say that you have the ways and means to make sure that everything that is being said on this forum is legit or at least close to the truth. You guys at SBR already hired someone new to do investigative work, well, I have not heard from him or neither has Bill sent him to find out if there is any truth about the company moving their stuff out of this building. I will open these doors for you, Bill or Dave to come in to talk to me.

"The Bottom line is that we are not paying so therefore should be considered a SCAM?" Maybe so, according to SBR outlines.....But shouldn't you be a "Watch Dog Site" that makes sure players get the real "Bottom line?" well, I believe that by visiting and talking to these places and even helping them find solutions for the players best sake would be a much better way to accomplish it.

Bill, you just had to go and dig deep and post old posts from 2005. You know where VBZ is located at, and if you need help finding them, just ask me again or even your member "Jumper". I mean, why do you have to bring up something irrelevant to the matter? Why not take the time and do a real investigative job? Shouldn't you focus on the "Bottom Line"? Instead of confusing people? It's hard enough for them to know that they are not going to get paid soon but to worry about other people scams? Please, get the facts!

Members, all of you that have balances with B4A, please make a note:
1. B4A will have all outstanding payouts paid in 1½ to 2 months. According to their CFO
2. I will no longer work for this company after the 12th of this month but will keep in touch to see developments.
3. The company is no longer taking deposits until all debts are paid.

My recommendations are to be honest with all of you and leave the door open for suggestions or ways to make everything easier for everyone.
I will be here everyday if anyone wants to contact me or Visit me.

Charlie
Spokeman

[jm765]

let a decent book get us a bailout, instead of playing a waiting game

[Uncle B]

Pride can make you stubborn and do things you know is not the right thing to do. However, lost pride can be regained and make the character of person stronger.


SwampyJ

Sure it can, IF the person thinks there is more value in comming clean, rather than running and hiding.

In this case, we have a guy who not only mislead players by recommended these scam outfits, we have a guy who made false claims of "Player Protection". We have a guy who continued to endorse one of these scam sites (again) long after it became common knowledge they were a deposit only shop. We have a guy who, rather than suck it up, and stay in constant contact with those players he mislead, has decided to close his forum down under the pretense of "moving", thereby effectively removing himself completely from any communication with those players who trusted him.


Now, lets say he really is *moving* the forum, and, ummm, has 'run into troubles' going on over a week now.

even if it were true, wtf would he be thinking????

wtf?

you decide to do *maintenance* on your forum, while 3 or 4 of your *recommended* sportsbooks are keeping your players funds in limbo?!

BRILLIANT!

Now, back to reality..


Could this onetime, wanna-be advocate possibly save face, by actually doing the right thing, and handing over the books databases, in an effort to secure some sort of bailout?

Maybe.. Maybe not.

I mean, the truth about the real numbers has already been revealed, so, it's not like he would be "caught again" lying about these shops, or their numbers.

Maybe he had/has other hopes of somehow making a few more bucks out of the deal in the end?

Possibly, but, i can't imagine any legit shop would be foolish enough to take his numbers at his word.. they should/would demand hard copy proof, or 2nd hand verification of the numbers accuracy.

We have pretty definitive evidence the last week or two, that his word is worthless.

So, what is there left to lose really? nothing, imo.. expect concrete admission, once those databases are handed over, that he was in fact caught lying again, but, like i said, does anyone really question that now anyways?


so, all he can do really, imo, is ask SBR or MW for help, hand over the real database information, and hope like Hell someone steps up, and bails the players out.

If nothing else, he only has a few dozen players left hanging, rather than the countless dozens hanging out to dry now.

In a related subject, anyone heard when the TOW forum will be up and running again?

my guess would be:

a - as soon as people forget about bet4aces/nojuice/betonstars, and forgets he ever mentioned "insurance".

b - as soon as someone bails all these players out.

c - when hell freezes over.

[SwampyJ]

According to the TOW newswire, their forum is supposed to be up a running this coming Friday.

SwampyJ

[Doug]

They get off the island Friday ?

http://forum.sbrforum.com/showthread.php?t=13157

[jumper]

charlie was kind enough to call me and tell me the bet4aces location is a couple kilometeres from mauricio gomez,s office and sportsbook barricade.i went insane with anger when the possibility of gomez involvement entered this discussion.charlie also mentioned he would pursue bailout discussion but he needs help as he has no experience with that.i second the negative rants on tow and applaud sbr,s involvement

[SwampyJ]

Any people owed by No Juice getting any kind of info from No Juice? I have not had an email responded to in a week and even though live help says they are open, I can not get them to respond to me. I think they are tired of hearing from me. I will not go away.

Thanks
SwampyJ

[marc]

Unless anyone has seen any proof to show that the owners of bet4aces or Nojuice are making any attempt to pay their players, we should assume at this point that our money is gone.

[SwampyJ]

Unless anyone has seen any proof to show that the owners of bet4aces or Nojuice are making any attempt to pay their players, we should assume at this point that our money is gone.

Marc, you make a good point. All the info I read about both situations has been littered with open-ended statements. Statements like "soon", "in a month or two", and my personal favorite "within next week". All of which mean not a damn thing without some money being paid. I am not quite ready to write my money off yet. I going to keep pestering No Juice till I am 100% sure my money is gone, which I am getting closer to day by day.

SwampyJ