Miggy or Trout: Who's your AL MVP?

[Mantle7]

Buddy, they're up 3 with 3 outs to go. I actually might make it in time. My thong is if the Nationals somehow lose and I put up half the money to cover a 6 way it would ruin my whole season. Dude... This is nerve racking. 6 spot is Angels and I think they win but I'd be more then happy with half.

[stevenash]

but at first like isaid was fine ...

Fine?
Really? Really?
In 2010 he committed more errors at first than any other first baseman.
2011 same, most errors committed at first than every body else.

Range? Laughable.

The more you talk, the more you prove the fraud that you are.

[Mantle7]

Omg pitching change... C'mon. Sorry guys. I know this is off topic

[Jeffie]

So if Trout moved down in the order everyone assumes he would have 30 more RBI's. Would he have the same amount of runs and SB's? Cabrera is the Tigers.

Ya prince fielder and Justin verlander suck...

[stevenash]

You mad bro getting buried.
Absolute funeral.

Guy has no baseball integrity, zero.

[broadway6]

Ya prince fielder and Justin verlander suck...

so does Pujols and Weaver

[BuddyBear]

Omg pitching change... C'mon. Sorry guys. I know this is off topic

It should go from a 6 team parlay to a 5 team parlay. Therefore, if WSH wins, you are done. Congrats on the big win.

[You mad bro]

You mad bro getting buried.
Absolute funeral.

Guy has no baseball integrity, zero.

Yuppp im gettn burried bro ...

Watch miggy get the mvp and you feel so stupid

[stevenash]

so does Pujols and Weaver

yeah, but Pujols doesn't protect Trout, like Prince protects Miggy.

[stevenash]

Watch miggy get the mvp and you feel so stupid

First off, I said I was leaning Miggy, read post 1, second off, Trout is clearly the better overall player.
And if you argue that, you don't know anything at all about baseball.
Nothing !

[You mad bro]

yeah, but Pujols doesn't protect Trout, like Prince protects Miggy.

Okay your point? Trout is still in front of 2 .300 hitters and one monster .. Plus when trumbo was hot he was at .280 woth 30 home runs


You are just another irrelevant person to this forum

[BuddyBear]

LOL YMB reciting dinosaur statistics to "prove" who is the better player.

[You mad bro]

This thread was created 4 days ago with different wording but u had to make one to make yourself feel more important ... Fckn pathetic bro

Why u so mad

[stevenash]

You are just another irrelevant person to this forum

Really?
Let me know when you posted multiple +150 underdog winners to this forum this season.

Keep talking clown boy

[You mad bro]

LOL YMB reciting dinosaur statistics to "prove" who is the better player.

When giambi won his in 2000 did he have anything else other than obp average hr and rbi?

12 years isnt even close to "dino" stats

[Mantle7]

It should go from a 6 team parlay to a 5 team parlay. Therefore, if WSH wins, you are done. Congrats on the big win.

Thanks Buddy... I appreciate it. I didn't even have to gamble Nats won @ 7:01. I'm so happy right now.

[You mad bro]

Really?
Let me know when you posted multiple +150 underdog winners to this forum this season.

Keep talking clown boy

Wow so u post 1 winner at a +150 good job ...

How about my nfl/college football run this weekend going 9-2 and monday 3-0 .... 12-2 in 3 days shits on your 2 underdog wins ...

In case you dont know thats -110 odds
If risking 100 than made a profit of 980 in 3 days easily ... But okay steve feel special about ur +150 underdog wins


... Not like that doesn happen often in baseball

[wtt0315]

cabrera to me is overrated. i know his stats but he also leads the league in grounding into double plays at 28. He is fat and lazy and there is no way in hell that anyone of that team of underchievers gets the mvp

[BuddyBear]

Serious question. How old are you YMB?

[BuddyBear]

Thanks Buddy... I appreciate it. I didn't even have to gamble Nats won @ 7:01. I'm so happy right now.

Nice job Mantle. Great feeling to win a 5 team parlay.

[stevenash]

Wow so u post 1 winner at a +150 good job ...

One? I've been getting it done all season?
Ask Lou, ask Shari, ask any mod here that reads my pm's, because they all do, posters have been begging me here all season to e-mail my selections. They all are willing to pay me for my selections, you want proof? I'll post my pm's.

[You mad bro]

Serious question. How old are you YMB?

Why does that even matter

[easyliving]

unless trout has a great last 2 weeks miggy has this locked up.

[Mantle7]

YMB, is my boy. Hes a good guy just very opinionated and the guy doesn't old back what's on his mind. Typical New Yorker. Haha. Who should be MVP is the only thing we don't agree about. No need to make it personal, Gentleman. You can make a strong case for both guys. A much STRONGER case for Trout mind you.ol.

[You mad bro]

One? I've been getting it done all season?
Ask Lou, ask Shari, ask any mod here that reads my pm's, because they all do, posters have been begging me here all season to e-mail my selections. They all are willing to pay me for my selections, you want proof? I'll post my pm's.

Lmao okay buddy ...

It happens all the time in baseball .. Dont get ahead of yourself

Try doing it in football with taking dogs getting 10 points and taking their moneyline and hitting ... But you are so cool steve

[BuddyBear]

Why does that even matter

Like 12?

[You mad bro]

Like 12?

14 1/2

[BuddyBear]

14 1/2

LOL figures. You got a lot of growing up to do kid. Sorry to be so harsh on you. Did not mean to embarrass you.

[stevenash]

But you are so cool steve

No, I am not cool, I am an I/T geek. I am an I/T professional, that is how I make my living.
I'm an operations analyst for an insurance company. I'm a number cruncher.
Hardly cool. But I make a good living. I have a condo in Fairfield County in Ct. My passion is baseball, I played it, I umpired it, I love it. I know it.
I love math, I bet dogs at + money games that are a coin toss.
Go to my history, read my treads, if you do, you would know I hit dogs at an alarming rate.

Football, I am OK, I don't touch basketball or hockey, but know this, I am the best dog bettor in MLB on these boards, and to call me irrelevant is ignorant.

Because I know baseball, and I am freaking good.

[InTheDrink]

Remember, Trout missed 20 + games in April, leads the league in runs scored with 118, Miggy is far behind in second at 102 and he has had been in 15 more games. Now factor in 27 homers from the lead off spot, league leading 46 steals.

When it's all said and done, Trout's numbers will be something like 30 homers, 85 RBI (from lead off) 125 runs scored, 50 stolen bases.330 BA, .400 OBA .950 OPS a gold glove and a silver slugger award.

After the Babe Ruth's, Mickey Mantle's, Ted Williams's and such, name 15 other single season's that were better.

Every category, from defense to offense Trout was stellar. Speed category, runs scored, home runs, defense, everything was beyond outstanding and if you know anything about baseball history, Trout's overall baseball season is absolutely top 30 of all time.

Now regarding WAR, I don't believe Sean Smith tinkered with his formula once this season, and there is in my opinion only one legit source when it comes to WAR, and that is Sean Smith.

Do you know who Sean Smith even is?

I appreciate the legitimate answer (until the prickish line at the end but whatever)...the point of having to discern between different variations of WAR proves it's far from a perfect statistic...you have an opinion that one is better than the others but the others still exist and are considered credible...and yet some versions continue to change. That's my problem with just looking up WAR and saying this guy's better than that guy. I saw you didn't argue that anyone who has come up with a WAR formula is reverse engineering a metric so they can subjectively come up with a measure of performance. WAR is an interpretation....stats like avg, ops, etc are not.

As for trout vs. cabrera, trout certainly has more tools than cabrera but cabrera's two tools happen to be the most important tools in baseball and they're considerably better than anyone else's in baseball.

why do i think it's no contest? because a) in spite of what some have said, there are a LOT of people who gauge players on the "archaic stats" and many of them happen to be voting sportswriters and b) more legitimately cabrera's late season push in a race to make the playoffs has been mvp-like while trout has not been as good in september as he's been the rest of the year. had he maintained a .345 ba then he'd make a much stronger case

as for babe ruth, mickey mantle, ted williams, and such i don't know who "and such" is so i cant make my list....i assume it includes guys like mays, aaron, bonds, musial, etc....

[BuddyBear]

I appreciate the legitimate answer (until the prickish line at the end but whatever)...the point of having to discern between different variations of WAR proves it's far from a perfect statistic...you have an opinion that one is better than the others but the others still exist and are considered credible...and yet some versions continue to change. That's my problem with just looking up WAR and saying this guy's better than that guy. I saw you didn't argue that anyone who has come up with a WAR formula is reverse engineering a metric so they can subjectively come up with a measure of performance. WAR is an interpretation....stats like avg, ops, etc are not.

As for trout vs. cabrera, trout certainly has more tools than cabrera but cabrera's two tools happen to be the most important tools in baseball and they're considerably better than anyone else's in baseball.

why do i think it's no contest? because a) in spite of what some have said, there are a LOT of people who gauge players on the "archaic stats" and many of them happen to be voting sportswriters and b) more legitimately cabrera's late season push in a race to make the playoffs has been mvp-like while trout has not been as good in september as he's been the rest of the year. had he maintained a .345 ba then he'd make a much stronger case

as for babe ruth, mickey mantle, ted williams, and such i don't know who "and such" is so i cant make my list....i assume it includes guys like mays, aaron, bonds, musial, etc....

Your response is good and you know your stuff. Sure, there are still some kinks in the armor to sabermetrics. It's still a relatively new field as far as scientific inquiry goes. But let me ask you a real serious question though:

Why is it ALL the stats baseball guys favor Trout over Cabrera?

[You mad bro]

LOL figures. You got a lot of growing up to do kid. Sorry to be so harsh on you. Did not mean to embarrass you.

Yeah i know ...

Cool story

[thunderous]

IMO it should be a player who has the biggest hand in getting his team to the playoffs....If Angels and Tigers don't make it then none of these guys should win. With that said they do need to be recognized for their good season and hence MLB should have an award like best offensive player or best allround player or something but a guy is valuable only if his team gets to the postseason and further.
I know a lot of guys might frown upon this suggestion but think about it how are you valuable if you are going home?

[InTheDrink]

Your response is good and you know your stuff. Sure, there are still some kinks in the armor to sabermetrics. It's still a relatively new field as far as scientific inquiry goes. But let me ask you a real serious question though:

Why is it ALL the stats baseball guys favor Trout over Cabrera?

well they're stats guys....they're going to swing completely the other way and will have zero influence by "x factors" such as timing of performance that i alluded to

i do some amount of analysis in my job as well and i can tell you that someone who lives and dies by what the statistics say without trying to understand they why's and the how's generally fails miserably in the business world

[stevenash]

Your response is good and you know your stuff. Sure, there are still some kinks in the armor to sabermetrics. It's still a relatively new field as far as scientific inquiry goes. But let me ask you a real serious question though:

Why is it ALL the stats baseball guys favor Trout over Cabrera?

ITD's response was tremendous, Miggy is a hammer, but Miggy is a death with the glove, has no speed, etc. etc. but can change a game with one swing, but Trout can change a game with a walk, a stolen base, and a single from Hunter.