Who is tim donaghy on in game 3???

[goldengreek]

So instead of the #1 TV market, who did Stern choose to represent the East in recent years, since you know, he rigs everything and decides it all in advance?

Boston: 21st in population
Miami: 43rd
Cleveland: 41st
Orlando: 82nd


yep, he's clearly rigging it so that the big markets are in the finals. It's all right there.

New York: 1st (last finals appearance: 1999)
Philly: 6th (last finals appearance: 2001)
Chicago: 3rd (last finals appearance: 1998)

they won 6 titles !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[yisman]

I don't think you get it.

No finals appearance in NINE YEARS from the three biggest TV markets by far in the East.

Not only no finals appearances, but the three teams have basically stunk for a decade. The Bulls are finally making a resurgence, but they've been a non-factor from 1998-2009.

The Knicks have not only been a non-factor, they've been downright awful. MSG has had a lot of trouble with the high payroll and the fans a lot less interested.

Philly has also been pretty damn bad.

And what happened to Stern's plan to have Lakers/Cavs? I heard from lots of sheep the last two seasons that Stern was rigging it to have Kobe/LeBron in the finals.

[QuantumLeap]

You realize none of what you said makes any sense, right?

The three biggest markets by far in the East have not been in the finals in nine years.

You're so desperate to believe that it's all rigged that you ignore the facts.




I believe it.

What you're not taking into consideration is that Stern has limited influence with the teams. He doesn't run the teams, they are run by the owners. If the owner is a ****up like Isaiah Thomas then the team is going in the dumper regardless of what Stern does.

Stern is able to influence things like referees and draft choices.

[yisman]

If the owner is a ****up like Isaiah Thomas then the team is going in the dumper regardless of what Stern does.

Isiah never owned the Knicks. James Dolan did and still does.

If Stern had so much influence, he could've stopped Dolan from hiring Isiah in the first place. Isiah has ruined everything he's ever touched after he retired from playing. Stern had to know what he'd do to the Knicks as GM.

[goldengreek]

So instead of the #1 TV market, who did Stern choose to represent the East in recent years, since you know, he rigs everything and decides it all in advance?

Boston: 21st in population
Miami: 43rd
Cleveland: 41st
Orlando: 82nd


yep, he's clearly rigging it so that the big markets are in the finals. It's all right there.

New York: 1st (last finals appearance: 1999)
Philly: 6th (last finals appearance: 2001)
Chicago: 3rd (last finals appearance: 1998)

Boston: 21st in population------ ITS NEW ENGLAND AS AN ENTIRETY BRO....MAINE , CONNECT, DELAWARE , ETC ETC ..ALL BOSTIN CITIES


Philly: 6th (last finals appearance: 2001)---WITH DR J AND BARKLEY THEY WERE ALWAYS IN THE LINELIGHT AND IN FINALS....DRAFTING IVERSON FUKED THEM UP

New York: 1st (last finals appearance: 1999)---- HE CHOSE JORDANS POPULARITY OVER NY 's market.. If it wasnt for MJ , NY would gave won a few titles....


Cleveland: 41st---- they havent done shit-- LebRON WILL BE IN CHICAGO , NY OR LA NEXT YR..CAUSE OF STERN


AGAIN:

Durning David Stern tenure:

Only 7 Different Teams have won the Larry O'Brien Trophy during his 26 year tenure; whereas MLB has had 18 different teams win the World Series in that same 26 year span, and the NFL has had 15 different teams win the Super Bowl during that span


They are:

Chicago
Los Angeles
Boston
Detroit
Houston
San Antonio
Miami


All big cities with big populations and ratings for TV


LA , CHICAGO , HOUST ...3 OF THE 4 LARGETS CITIES IN THE US AND San Antonio is 6TH


GEEZ...HE MUST REALLY HATE THE KNICKS ...LOL...THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES MISSING

Phoenix is the 6th largest city and the have been in the Final and in the playoffs almost every yr



By TV market and population

Chicago... # 3
Los Angeles... # 2
Houston...# 4
San Antonio # 6---PLUS 4-5 INTERNATIONAL PLAYERS ON THAT TEAM AT THE SAME TIME STERN WAS TRYING TO MAKE A NAME FOR THE NBA IN EUROPE

Detroit...# 9
Boston ... #23....but if you count the entire area of New England plus add Bostons NBA tradition and fan base
Miami # 43... but had dallas ( # 8 ) + the Wade / Shaq team


I REST MY CASE !!!!!!!


HOW DID ORLANDO--- THE BABY FRANCHISE... STERNS FAV EXPANSION TEAN...GET THE # 1 PICK 2 YEARS IN A ROW AND GOT THE RIGHTS 2 SHAQ BY A MIRACLE

THE BENT ENVELOPE THAT "SOMEHOW" WENT TO THE KNICKS AND THEY GOT EWING

THE 7 YEARS THE DID THE DRAFT IN PRIVATE AND ONLY ANNOUNCED IT ON AIR

I CAN GO ON AND ON

BLIND STUPID SHEEP

[shari91]

I rest my case.

Just for the sake of argument, how many fans do you think NY and Chicago will have for the next 20 years if they never make it to the playoffs again? I believe whether or not they progress that far, they will still have a large fan base not only in their respective cities but nationally based on both their histories and in NY's case the sheer size of the market. They don't need to make it to the playoffs to produce income for the league.

Orlando had Shaq the first time they ever made it to the playoffs - the most popular player at the time. Boston has a massive fan base that extends far beyond the city itself. Miami and Orlando were new franchises - to generate a fan base they needed to start having some success or both decisions would be deemed failures and would've cost the league millions. Cleveland = LeBron and the massive following he has generated for the league. Enough said about that guy.

I just think there may be more to the story than solely looking at a city's population.

[goldengreek]

i don't think you get it.

no finals appearance in nine years from the three biggest tv markets by far in the east.

the lakers # 2 !!!!!!!!

not only no finals appearances, but the three teams have basically stunk for a decade. The bulls are finally making a resurgence, but they've been a non-factor from 1998-2009. The bulls are in central u.s. And we are considered "the mdwest"...not an east coast team..get your geography in order

the knicks have not only been a non-factor, they've been downright awful. Msg has had a lot of trouble with the high payroll and the fans a lot less interested. isaiah's fault ...and the ratted out his behavior to get him the fuk out

philly has also been pretty damn bad.

And what happened to stern's plan to have lakers/cavs? I heard from lots of sheep the last two seasons that stern was rigging it to have kobe/lebron in the finals. boston/ lakers -- biggest rivalry ever..2 most storied francieses...boston getting old...he wanted boston /la one more time....lebron has plenty of time

answered above

[goldengreek]

what you're not taking into consideration is that stern has limited influence with the teams. He doesn't run the teams, they are run by the owners. If the owner is a ****up like isaiah thomas then the team is going in the dumper regardless of what stern does.

stern is able to influence things like referees and draft choices.

and where the elite superstar players go

how come the jordans , shaqs, kobe, magic, isiah, bird, wade ...never played in milwaukee or utah or somewhere similar??

And i dont wanna hear reggie miller or stockton... Im talking super elite players

[yisman]

Just for the sake of argument, how many fans do you think NY and Chicago will have for the next 20 years if they never make it to the playoffs again? I believe whether or not they progress that far, they will still have a large fan base not only in their respective cities but nationally based on both their histories and in NY's case the sheer size of the market. They don't need to make it to the playoffs to produce income for the league.

Are you serious? You conspiracy theorists keep changing your argument.

First it was they're rigging it for the big markets. Now you say they're not.

So basically, the facts don't matter. You'll just keep changing your argument until it fits.

[yisman]

no finals appearance in nine years from the three biggest tv markets by far in the east.

the lakers # 2 !!!!!!!!

So what? Again, no finals appearance in nine years from the three biggest tv markets by far in the east.


Why would he want that?

not only no finals appearances, but the three teams have basically stunk for a decade. The bulls are finally making a resurgence, but they've been a non-factor from 1998-2009. The bulls are in central u.s. And we are considered "the mdwest"...not an east coast team..get your geography in order

Are you fukking serious? I didn't say East Coast anywhere. I said East as in Eastern Conference. You do know the Bulls are in the Eastern Conference, right?

the knicks have not only been a non-factor, they've been downright awful. Msg has had a lot of trouble with the high payroll and the fans a lot less interested. isaiah's fault ...and the ratted out his behavior to get him the fuk out

Blame it on whatever you want. You claim everything is rigged. I want to know how if everything is rigged, that the Knicks have stunk for a decade. Unless you now want to claim it's good for ratings if the Knicks suck.

And what happened to stern's plan to have lakers/cavs? I heard from lots of sheep the last two seasons that stern was rigging it to have kobe/lebron in the finals. boston/ lakers -- biggest rivalry ever..2 most storied francieses...boston getting old...he wanted boston /la one more time....lebron has plenty of time

This is utter nonsense. You're changing your argument to fit the facts, just like I said. No one was saying Boston/LA or Orlando/LA. It was CLEVELAND/LA.

[yisman]

This is classic.

I said " So what? Again, no finals appearance in nine years from the three biggest tv markets by far in the east."

You reply that I don't know my geography because Chicago is not on the East Coast.

That's weak on so many levels.

A)I never said Chicago was on the East Coast. I said it's in the Eastern Conference.

B)Even if I did say Chicago was in fukking Florida, how does that affect anything? You've lost the argument, so now you're trying to distract from the issue.

C)If you think Chicago isn't in the Eastern Conference, you have bigger problems than merely believing some nonsense conspiracy theory that sheep like to put stock in.

[shari91]

Are you serious? You keep changing your argument. First it was they're rigging it for the big markets. Now you say they're not. So basically, the facts don't matter. You'll just keep changing your argument until it fits.

Yisman, I suggest you do a little reading of this thread before putting words into mouth. Find me one post where I've said anything remotely like that.

I believe Stern heavily influences many factors and anyone who wishes to believe they're watching a pure sport based solely on the athletic and coaching abilities of two opposing teams - that's their prerogative. I prefer to make money when I place a bet.

[yisman]

How about you two put your heads together and figure out whether the league is rigging it for big markets or not, and then get back to me. It just won't do to have two different nonsensical and contradictory arguments going at the same time.

[yisman]

Yisman, I suggest you do a little reading of this thread before putting words into mouth. Find me one post where I've said anything remotely like that.

goldengreek keeps insisting that, and now I'm not sure what I'm supposed to argue. Is it that the league is rigged for the big markets or is it not? Should I tell you the league is rigging it for big markets and goldengreen that it isn't? You're both wrong, even with contradictory arguments.

I got you confused with goldengreek. Honestly, it was hard not to.

[shari91]

How about you two put your heads together and figure out whether the league is rigging it for big markets or not, and then get back to me. It just won't do to have two different nonsensical and contradictory arguments going at the same time.

So no luck with finding my quote then? Hmmm.

Again, good luck with your bets. Believe me, I was just as defensive as you appear to be when I had to face the fact that a sport I loved growing up is in shambles. But I'm here to make money. Shit happens and I'll accept what I have to in order to win my bet and move on.

[yisman]

and where the elite superstar players go

how come the jordans , shaqs, kobe, magic, isiah, bird, wade ...never played in milwaukee or utah or somewhere similar??

And i dont wanna hear reggie miller or stockton... Im talking super elite players

Elite players become super elite by their circumstances.

There have been a number of players who had the ability to become all-time greats but were not put in the right situation.

Who knows whether Kobe would've had anything close to the career he had if the Hornets had kept him.

[yisman]

So no luck with finding my quote then? Hmmm.

I just told you I thought you were goldengreek. He keeps changing his argument, so I thought he was just changing it again.

No luck finding your quote? You haven't said much regarding that specific bit, so no, no quote.

What's with the comment? I admitted I got you two confused. So why would you be challenging me to find a quote?

You jumped in the middle of an argument I was having with someone else.

As for the bets, it's bogus. Brock can keep telling everyone how Donaghy never loses and that the league is fixed. I...don't...believe...it.


Prove me wrong. I invite you to go ahead and hit 75% of your bets next season, on -110 lines.

[yisman]

BTW, the same stuff was said in the NHL, about how Bettman would rig it to have Washington play Pittsburgh.

Washington, the ratings darling, lost in the first round. Pittsburgh lost in the second round.

Regardless of the league, people will claim it's all fixed so the people in power will make more money. That goes for hockey, basketball, football, baseball, you name it.

It doesn't matter how much evidence there is to the contrary. It suits some people to believe that everything is rigged and orchestrated.

If the Lakers go into the tank in two years from now and never win another title for a decade, I can assure you people will still be claiming the league is fixed.

If Milwaukee wins five titles in a row, people will come up with a theory why the league wants the Bucks to win.

[shari91]

I just told you I thought you were goldengreek. He keeps changing his argument, so I thought he was just changing it again. No luck finding your quote? You haven't said much regarding that specific bit, so no, no quote. What's with the comment? I admitted I got you two confused. So why would you be challenging me to find a quote? You jumped in the middle of an argument I was having with someone else. As for the bets, it's bogus. Brock can keep telling everyone how Donaghy never loses and that the league is fixed. I...don't...believe...it. Prove me wrong. I invite you to go ahead and hit 75% of your bets next season, on -110 lines.

I apologise. You posted something else in between and I thought that was in response to me. I just saw your subsequent post about making a mistake after I replied.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one which is cool. I hate the fact that this whole topic seems to be common knowledge for the average person with no interest in gambling. Even if you believe there is no shady stuff happening in the NBA, the fact that the league can't refute the things being said I believe has damaged its reputation irreparably. Thank goodness for the great guys of the game who were around before the name Stern ever became associated with the NBA - their legacies will never have been touched by this stench.

[yisman]

The league has plenty of problems. There's some horrid refereeing, and I disagree with how the league operates and deals with many things. There have also been some really badly-officiated games where the outcome (as in the winner) was affected by actors other than the players.

But I have been watching the league for years, and there's simply no logical explanation for any of this if it's rigged. No argument makes sense, whether you want to claim the league rigs it in favor of bigger markets or longer series, or you want to somehow claim that the league doesn't want Chicago or New York to be good.

If someone wants to prove me wrong and show me that they can hit 75% of their bets or better because everything is rigged and it's easy to know who will win, or it's easy to tell which games will go over/under the total, I invite you to do it. I'd gladly bet you that you can't do it, and if I lose, it'll be all the better for my future betting strategies.

[shari91]

The league has plenty of problems. There's some horrid refereeing, and I disagree with how the league operates and deals with many things. There have also been some really badly-officiated games where the outcome (as in the winner) was affected by actors other than the players. But I have been watching the league for years, and there's simply no logical explanation for any of this if it's rigged. No argument makes sense, whether you want to claim the league rigs it in favor of bigger markets or longer series, or you want to somehow claim that the league doesn't want Chicago or New York to be good. If someone wants to prove me wrong and show me that they can hit 75% of their bets or better because everything is rigged and it's easy to know who will win, or it's easy to tell which games will go over/under the total, I invite you to do it. I'd gladly bet you that you can't do it, and if I lose, it'll be all the better for my future betting strategies.

I don't think many people would say everything is rigged. At least I wouldn't. I do say that Stern influences how things will play out in the long run during a season in order to maximise profits - either that year or in the upcoming ones. The only time I believe this would benefit someone from a gambling point of view would be when teams are close to making the playoffs, or in the playoffs themselves. I don't think Stern is concerned with the outcome of an every day game so at least for me, none of this would help my betting strategies in the regular season. I could be wrong though - maybe someone has figured out how to use all of this information on a day-to-day basis but I'd personally be highly sceptical of that.

[yisman]

While you didn't say it, it's been said by several posters in this thread and other threads that everything about the NBA is rigged.

Should be easy as pie to make a few million over the course of several seasons. Somehow, they're still ranting on a messageboard about it instead of making all that easy money.

[goldengreek]

so what? Again, no finals appearance in nine years from the three biggest tv markets by far in the east.


why would he want that?



are you fukking serious? I didn't say east coast anywhere. I said east as in eastern conference. You do know the bulls are in the eastern conference, right?



Blame it on whatever you want. You claim everything is rigged. I want to know how if everything is rigged, that the knicks have stunk for a decade. Unless you now want to claim it's good for ratings if the knicks suck.



This is utter nonsense. You're changing your argument to fit the facts, just like i said. No one was saying boston/la or orlando/la. It was cleveland/la.

i was saying celts / lakers from day 1

[goldengreek]

this is classic.

I said " so what? Again, no finals appearance in nine years from the three biggest tv markets by far in the east."

you reply that i don't know my geography because chicago is not on the east coast.

that's weak on so many levels.

a)i never said chicago was on the east coast. I said it's in the eastern conference.

b)even if i did say chicago was in fukking florida, how does that affect anything? You've lost the argument, so now you're trying to distract from the issue.

c)if you think chicago isn't in the eastern conference, you have bigger problems than merely believing some nonsense conspiracy theory that sheep like to put stock in.

you have been saying east...east...east... You mentioned nothing about a confrence

[goldengreek]

the league has plenty of problems. There's some horrid refereeing, and i disagree with how the league operates and deals with many things. There have also been some really badly-officiated games where the outcome (as in the winner) was affected by actors other than the players.

But i have been watching the league for years, and there's simply no logical explanation for any of this if it's rigged. No argument makes sense, whether you want to claim the league rigs it in favor of bigger markets or longer series, or you want to somehow claim that the league doesn't want chicago or new york to be good.

If someone wants to prove me wrong and show me that they can hit 75% of their bets or better because everything is rigged and it's easy to know who will win, or it's easy to tell which games will go over/under the total, i invite you to do it. I'd gladly bet you that you can't do it, and if i lose, it'll be all the better for my future betting strategies.

bulls won 6 championships ...jordan and pippen retired...they have to rebuild

people were getting sick of the bulls...what? Did u want them to win win the championship 12 times in the last 15 yrs ???

[yisman]

bulls won 6 championships ...jordan and pippen retired...they have to rebuild

people were getting sick of the bulls...what? Did u want them to win win the championship 12 times in the last 15 yrs ???

Again missing my point. They could be contenders without winning. Same for Philly and New York. None of them have been.

How is it good for the league for the top three markets by far in the East(ern Conference) to wallow for a decade?

Ratings would definitely have been higher had the teams been in contention. Instead, it caused thousands in those cities to pay less attention to the NBA.

[yisman]

you have been saying east...east...east... You mentioned nothing about a confrence

http://forum.sbrforum.com/nba-basketball-handicapping/519191-who-tim-donaghy-game-3-a-p3.html#post4966335

You think that means representing the East Coast?


The NBA, like the NHL, divides the league into an Eastern Conference (commonly referred to as "the East") and a Western Conference (commonly referred to as "the West"). Let me know if there's anything else I can assist you with.

I did not mention geography or the physical location of cities anywhere. I discussed the teams representing their conferences in the Finals.

[yisman]

Oh by the way:

Boston, one of the biggest markets according to greek (who wants to claim that the entire New England area counts as Boston) and a team the NBA wants to succeed, tanked the '06-'07 season to put themselves in position to get the #1 pick. According to their ping pong balls, they had a much greater chance to draft 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th.

What happened? They got the worst possible result: they wound up 5th, which was the lowest possible place for them to draft. Partially due to that, they wound up taking Jeff Green and dealing the pick.

So how does hurting Boston in the lottery help the league? Or is it now that the league doesn't want Boston to succeed?

[goldengreek]

Elite players become super elite by their circumstances.

There have been a number of players who had the ability to become all-time greats but were not put in the right situation.

Who knows whether Kobe would've had anything close to the career he had if the Hornets had kept him.

[goldengreek]

again missing my point. They could be contenders without winning. Same for philly and new york. None of them have been.

How is it good for the league for the top three markets by far in the east(ern conference) to wallow for a decade?

Ratings would definitely have been higher had the teams been in contention. Instead, it caused thousands in those cities to pay less attention to the nba.

bulls have sold out every game since jordan retired..even with all those shitty teans

[goldengreek]

http://forum.sbrforum.com/nba-basket...ml#post4966335

you think that means representing the east coast?


the nba, like the nhl, divides the league into an eastern conference (commonly referred to as "the east") and a western conference (commonly referred to as "the west"). Let me know if there's anything else i can assist you with.

I did not mention geography or the physical location of cities anywhere. I discussed the teams representing their conferences in the finals.

we were talkig about tv markets and populations of cities

and you kept saying teams from the east

[goldengreek]

and where the elite superstar players go

how come the jordans , shaqs, kobe, magic, isiah, bird, wade ...never played in milwaukee or utah or somewhere similar??

And i dont wanna hear reggie miller or stockton... Im talking super elite players

[Goat Milk]

Malone isn't a elite superstar?

[goldengreek]

How about you two put your heads together and figure out whether the league is rigging it for big markets or not, and then get back to me. It just won't do to have two different nonsensical and contradictory arguments going at the same time.

BOTH U IRATIONAL SHEEP


ONE MORE TIME FOR THE SLOW KIDS

7 TEAMS HAVE WON A CHAMPIONSHIP IN STERNS ERA

ARGUEMENT:

Only 7 Different Teams have won the Larry O'Brien Trophy during his 26 year tenure; whereas MLB has had 18 different teams win the World Series in that same 26 year span, and the NFL has had 15 different teams win the Super Bowl during that span

They are:

By TV market and population

Chicago... # 3
Los Angeles... # 2
Houston...# 4
San Antonio # 6---PLUS 4-5 INTERNATIONAL PLAYERS ON THAT TEAM AT THE SAME TIME STERN WAS TRYING TO MAKE A NAME FOR THE NBA IN EUROPE
Detroit...# 9
Boston ... #23....but if you count the entire area of New England plus add Bostons NBA tradition and fan base
Miami # 43... but had dallas ( # 8 ) + the Wade / Shaq team

THERE ARE ABOUT 6- 7 STATES THAT ROOT FOR BOSTON.. SO YOU CAN BASICALLY CALL THEM TOP 5 EASY

LA ,CHICAGO ,HOUST ...3 OF THE 4 LARGETS CITIES IN THE US AND San Antonio is the 6TH largest

Phoenix is the 5th largest city and the have been in the Final and in the playoffs almost every yr


Now.... for your question / arguement about Orlando and Miami

2 Expansion teams that Stern wanted to succeed badly-- Its part of his "legacy" of expanding the NBA

2 big name cities even tho the population rank isnt that high

Do you think it was an accident that Orlando got the rights to Shaq when they had a 1 % chance of getting the # 1 pick ( they had Nick Anderson , Penny Hardaway and Dennis Scott and were about to make a run )

TALKING ABOUT LOTTERY PICKS AND YOUR POINT ABOUT THE KNICKS

DO YOU REMEMBER THAt FAMOUS BENT ENVELOPE THAT GAVE THE KNICKS THE # 1 PICK AND EWING ?

You also forget they had a 10 year run under Riley and Van Gundy where they were one of the top teams in the leaugue and would have won championshits if not for MJ

The owners fuked up the knicks with redic contracts to Houston , LJ, Sprewell , and Marbury in addition to HORRID draft picks

Speaking of the shady draft...how did the bulls manage the # 1 pick when they had a 2 % chance

Why since the Ewing bent envelope debacle has the draft order been done in private and not live ??


SO...... OTHER THAN NY ... EVERY TOP 6 TEAM HAS BEEN REPRESENTED

YOUR ANSWER TO ORLANDO AND MIAMI....EXPANSION TEAMS THAT STERN WANTED TO SUCCEED

[goldengreek]

malone isn't a elite superstar?

he should be... Im my eyes he is

but he isnt percieved to be by the general public