Horse Racing questions and answers

[JBEX]

If someone has nothing to do would you give me a little insight/education on KEE R4 #2 Give Me Liberty. Horse has been STK, MSW, **, laid off, and runs today off a ** win and gets IRAD back again in a 20K claimer. Just so much I don't understand with horse racing.

Thx!!

starts 2 and 3 were solid 2nds and not sure why they decided to try tampa bay derby..
no shot anyway with the slow pace and trip he had

laid off for whatever reason and given to a different trainer..finally put into a spot he could easily handle last out and he crushed them..this is the next logical spot (type of race) after winning a maiden claimer and why not win at keeneland with the prestige and bigger purses ..trainer is killing it last 2 years and as you said irad aboard first time..doubt he'll be 3-1

[str]

If he has asked Irad to ride him, that speaks volumes.

[batt33]

Sweet Voyage Race Overview

Sweet Voyage returns to turf to face claiming company this Saturday, Apr. 26, at Churchill Downs. Trainer Jeff Hiles has tabbed Corey Lanerie, who was aboard for her maiden-breaking victory, to pilot your filly. Sweet Voyage will be the #5 among a full field of 10 rivals carded as the day’s 8th race. Post time for the night racing event is 9:09 p.m. ET.

Your daughter of Candy Ride will look to get back on track as she drops down to non-winners of two claiming company following a decent effort against allowance types, which we had known would be a bit salty for her going into it. She seems to be well spotted amongst this group of rivals and we are hopeful that she will bounce back off of her previous effort with the class relief. There seems to be a decent amount of pace when analyzing the race on paper, so we expect her to work out her typical stalking trip before hopefully kicking home a winner. Best of luck!



More on the competition:

#1 Smooth Waves: Drops down into the claiming ranks following a well-beaten effort against first-level allowance company at Fair Grounds. May have needed that most recent race being that it was her first off of the layoff. She possesses some back class and has run respectable figures in the past, but will need to get back on form to win this race. Always a positive to see Irad Ortiz Jr. in the saddle.

#2 Talent Show: Was a winner last time out where she was claimed by her current connections for the $30K tag from the Brad Cox barn. All three of her starts have come over the synthetic surface at Turfway Park—so this will be her first over the lawn. Her pedigree does not scream grass and would be weary to back this one in her first start away from the Cox barn.

#3 Faire Plaisir: Finished third at the level back in December before a string of allowance attempts at Turfway. Ran some respectable figures during that stretch and should appreciate a bit of class relief.

#4 Bread to Run: Was fifth when sprinting on the dirt at Keeneland against starter allowance company last time out. Goes back to the turf and stretches out around two turns, which she should appreciate being by Authentic. Figures will have to improve to win this race.

#6 Choate: Has put together a string of three honest closing efforts at the $30K level. Should get the pace to run into in this race, but will need to run a figure a bit faster than her usual high 50’s.

#7 Cheyenne Moon: Was a well-beaten third in an off-the-turf allowance event at Keeneland most recently. She earned a 67 Beyer in her only career turf start which came at Churchill Downs when she finished sixth against first-level allowance company. She should appreciate the class relief, but unsure if she is talented enough for this group.

#8 Angel of Faith: This filly by Justify will try the turf for the first time in her career. Though progeny of Justify tend to take to the lawn, with Bernardini carrying a heavy dirt influence as her broodmare sire it's fair to question how she will handle it. The barn is only 8% with runners competing over the turf for the first time in their careers.

#9 Life Advice: One of the main speed horses in this race--should break and go from the outside post. Her best race can put her in contention with this group and she goes out for a barn who has been red-hot so far this year. A main contender.

#10 Hold My Halo: Returns to the claiming ranks, but will still need significant improvement to compete with this group.

[batt33]

Community Adjusted ‘25 Update



We were out to check on Community Adjusted’s Quality Road filly, who is recovering well from her conformation correction procedure. Bandages are being changed daily until the incisions heal completely, at which point she will go back to her normal routine.

https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/blog/video/IMG0186_1745255646411/MP4/IMG0186_1745255646411.mp4

Community Adjusted Foal Update



While we had hoped that the Equilox would do the trick for straightening out Community Adjusted ’25’s front legs, the farm and her attending vet both feel she would benefit from surgical intervention to correct her toeing in. She will have screws placed in the outside of both front ankles in the growth plate, effectively slowing the growth of bone on that side and allowing the other side to catch up. Once the angle of the joint is corrected, the screws will be removed.

Click here for an in-depth article with further explanation of the procedure including insights from several experts.

As the article explains, “[Denali Stud’s Conrad] Bandoroff echoed the feelings of [Dr. Stuart] Brown and [Dr. Larry] Bramlage, that he rarely sees any post-operative complications in horses after these surgeries, and the procedures themselves are generally considered by horsemen to be simple and safe.”

[JBEX]

yesterday's out of the money @ 57-1

army mule friday

santa anita

R8 #9 barbara t (2-1)
@ 7:39

same jock/trainer as ky derby ml favorite journalism
.
having a very similiar career to her dad
.. should definitely have a look str

[JBEX]

how about the consecutive bullets on huge worktabs at churchill then they just stop on her ?


almost 1 year to the day since her last race also

[str]

My brothers horse Green Shadows is resuming with a run in The Tamworth Cup today. It's a fairly large country race and a carnival meeting and a public holiday in Australia for ANZAC Day. So it's supposed to be quite a party atmosphere at this meeting each year.

I am taking the day off to go with him.

It's Tamworth Race 7 #6 at 2.20am ET

https://www.racenet.com.au/form-guide/horse-racing/tamworth-20250424/tamworth-city-toyota-tamworth-showcase-cup-race-7/overview

Nothing wrong with 2nd Opti. The horse ran hard I'm sure.

Hope you enjoyed the day.

[str]

Black Tie Optional Update

https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/blog/video/BlackTieOptionalWT_1745435466955/MP4/BlackTieOptionalWT_1745435466955.mp4

We had an opportunity to check in on Black Tie Optional at Wavertree this past week during the OBS April sale. Your son of Not This Time has continued to progress in his training and has a series of 3/8 breezes under him to this point. He is scheduled to ship West tomorrow and will join the barn of trainer Bob Baffert at Los Alamitos. Admittedly, we don’t believe this colt will be an early 2-year-old type and that does not come as a surprise given that the Not This Times are not typically early bloomers, but we would like to get Bob and his team's hands on him and see what they think. As we mentioned following our March visit, he hit a pretty good growth spurt a month ago and looks the part of a two-turn colt--which is what we bought him to be--so we will not be in a rush with him by any means.

By no means a criticism. Just an observation. The horse HAS changed with growth. He looks and gallops different now. That is not a bad thing, it is just a growth spurt so I totally agree. He did not and refused when asked to switch to his right lead through the stretch. That is what the rider was trying to get him to do when he was shifting weight and the horses head was all over the place. There is always a reason for that. He looked slightly, and very slightly uncomfortable on that left lead but he had no intention of going over to the right lead. And he has a real reason most likely. It was the right thing to do to stop trying and making him do it so glad to see the rider do that.
A growth spurt can cause temporary soreness or awkwardness when it occurs. Kind of like a 13-14 year old kid being clumsy with larger feet for a while. That should go away in a month or two. I could not tell if the marks on his sides were just sweat lines or if the rider had rubbed him on his sides with his boots. Hopefully, sweat. If not, let's watch for the rider to be wearing a fuzzy insert on the outside of his boots to prevent that. It will go away in a month or so but they can be painful like a raspberry on your knee from sliding or whatever when you are a kid. Sore to the touch. Hi9s legs looked real good. Knees are fatty but that is extremely common early and no way to know for sure unless you can feel them daily. I miss that.

All in all, he is indeed my favorite. He is smart and I really like him. Taking the needed time with him to grow into himself will serve him very well down the road.

Thanks Batt !

[str]

can definitely understand how being a trainer is an all encompassing profession and walking away after so many years is a major adjustment to make ..seems like you made a good choice with all the shenanigans going on and you've done well being a homebuilder for a long while now ..sure there's still a part of you that would've liked to continue on if circumstances related to the game were better

sure your friends will enjoy exploring the thread and will give them a chance to see your views on things you may have never discussed with them ..to say you've covered a lot of topics in here is an understatement .. I certainly have learned a lot and nice to be able to look at things from a trainer's perspective

related to playing the claiming game I noticed today that mike maker claimed a horse out of a mcl 4 back for $50k ..last 2 starts a win in mcl and a starter alw at oak ..about $75k purses those 2 ,up for $50k today and winners share is about $43k ..ml favorite today so highly possible they'll get a 3rd straight ..nothing to do with a pick here but just an example how good it must feel to be the trainer when you get things right like here..maker certainly one of the best in the game with his claims


if it's the case in regards to maryland racing can understand how disappointing it must be to you..sure a lot of it has to do with how it will affect people who have made there livelihood from it for a long time..if its a boutique meet certainly a whole different thing than the year round circuit it was .. hopefully that won't happen but seems from what people close to it are saying there's a good chance it will .. a shame for sure

That is exactly what it was JBEX. Times 10.

All good now though. I just wonder what might have been but no regrets at all.

[str]

If someone has nothing to do would you give me a little insight/education on KEE R4 #2 Give Me Liberty. Horse has been STK, MSW, **, laid off, and runs today off a ** win and gets IRAD back again in a 20K claimer. Just so much I don't understand with horse racing.

Thx!!

Finished 2nd. Apparently cooled out after the race sore or with an obvious problem of some sort, and the claim was voided.
Now you know the rest of the story Madison.

[str]

Community Adjusted ‘25 Update



We were out to check on Community Adjusted’s Quality Road filly, who is recovering well from her conformation correction procedure. Bandages are being changed daily until the incisions heal completely, at which point she will go back to her normal routine.

https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/blog/video/IMG0186_1745255646411/MP4/IMG0186_1745255646411.mp4

Community Adjusted Foal Update



While we had hoped that the Equilox would do the trick for straightening out Community Adjusted ’25’s front legs, the farm and her attending vet both feel she would benefit from surgical intervention to correct her toeing in. She will have screws placed in the outside of both front ankles in the growth plate, effectively slowing the growth of bone on that side and allowing the other side to catch up. Once the angle of the joint is corrected, the screws will be removed.

Click here for an in-depth article with further explanation of the procedure including insights from several experts.

As the article explains, “[Denali Stud’s Conrad] Bandoroff echoed the feelings of [Dr. Stuart] Brown and [Dr. Larry] Bramlage, that he rarely sees any post-operative complications in horses after these surgeries, and the procedures themselves are generally considered by horsemen to be simple and safe.”

Yeah Batt, this foal ,definitely needs some help to get her straightened out. She is not there yet. Now is the time and agree that she will be better off for it. They are trying hard to get her right. That is all you can do.

[str]

yesterday's out of the money @ 57-1

army mule friday

santa anita

R8 #9 barbara t (2-1)
@ 7:39

same jock/trainer as ky derby ml favorite journalism
.
having a very similiar career to her dad
.. should definitely have a look str

I just did. Oh man, she could be special even at the age of 4.
Hooks a real nice game one just inside her. If she can handle running against her with all that experience and her only running twice in two years, she could be tough to deal with down the road.

[JBEX]

I just did. Oh man, she could be special even at the age of 4.
Hooks a real nice game one just inside her. If she can handle running against her with all that experience and her only running twice in two years, she could be tough to deal with down the road.

I like her chances in spite of the long layoff and part of that is because her sire was able to do it ..be no value though especially with the j/t combo ..just rooting for her to be a good one and off her only 2 races she's obviously real talented

[Madison]

Finished 2nd. Apparently cooled out after the race sore or with an obvious problem of some sort, and the claim was voided.
Now you know the rest of the story Madison.

Always appreciated!! and JBEX as well.

[Madison]

I just did. Oh man, she could be special even at the age of 4.
Hooks a real nice game one just inside her. If she can handle running against her with all that experience and her only running twice in two years, she could be tough to deal with down the road.

FWIW, Just came out of my stable. BOL!

[JBEX]

army mule saturday



tampa 8 @ 3:55

#2 over the mark (2-1)


oaklawn 5 @ 3:38

#3 razorback army (4-1)




.

[JBEX]

seems like california burrito (army mule) will be running in the pat day mile (derby day) with an outside shot of getting into the derby ..lots of you tube material on him if interested

[Optional]

Nothing wrong with 2nd Opti. The horse ran hard I'm sure.

Hope you enjoyed the day.

Thanks for checking out the result.

That was it's 7th 2nd place, which I am sure many owners would take if told their horse would do that for them. But honestly, it was a real disappointment. It jumped and settled exactly where the trainer asked for. Jockey rode it exactly as asked. Maybe a bit wide on the turn and he said the horse did not like the tight turn on the track. But it had every chance to overhaul the winner but just never gave anything extra. I don't think it knows when to fight for the line, or only has the one speed in it.

On the upside the time was awesome and would have won most stakes level city races. And there was 36k prizemoney for 2nd, which covers a large chunk of annual costs from one race.


My own photo finish shot.

[str]

Thanks for checking out the result.

That was it's 7th 2nd place, which I am sure many owners would take if told their horse would do that for them. But honestly, it was a real disappointment. It jumped and settled exactly where the trainer asked for. Jockey rode it exactly as asked. Maybe a bit wide on the turn and he said the horse did not like the tight turn on the track. But it had every chance to overhaul the winner but just never gave anything extra. I don't think it knows when to fight for the line, or only has the one speed in it.

On the upside the time was awesome and would have won most stakes level city races. And there was 36k prizemoney for 2nd, which covers a large chunk of annual costs from one race.


My own photo finish shot.

I see he has blinkers on. Makes sense too me. I like the smaller cups as well.

The horse that I show in my icon here is a horse that just would not win. He laid back early, could close sometimes, and sometimes not so much , all going 6 or 7 furlongs around one turn. He just had no interest in passing that last horse in order to finish first. We cut his blinkers back, as you can see, to seemingly about what your brothers horse is wearing, and I trained him for about a month before the next race in company most days, and about a length in front of the others. I would have the other two horses in company, one on each side go up and engage him into the far turn, and then fix it to make sure my horse on the lead, picked it up enough to regain that length advantage. Never allowing him to be passed. That seemed to change his mind.

We ran him in a longer race than usual so the fractions would be slower early, which allowed him to break and make the lead. Long story short, he won 8 in a row. All on the lead, and all relaxing early and repelling all challengers. That is him in my icon here.

In his case it made him a warrior after a win or two. He fell in love with it. Your brother is a darn good horseman from all I have seen. I'm sure he knows this stuff, but if he is so inclined, have him try this in the morning and see if the rider feels a difference after a couple of weeks. If so, and if the races written offer that opportunity, maybe he can give it a try.
Just a thought from and old timer to an excellent current conditioner.

Best of luck.

[Optional]

I see he has blinkers on. Makes sense too me. I like the smaller cups as well.

The horse that I show in my icon here is a horse that just would not win. He laid back early, could close sometimes, and sometimes not so much , all going 6 or 7 furlongs around one turn. He just had no interest in passing that last horse in order to finish first. We cut his blinkers back, as you can see, to seemingly about what your brothers horse is wearing, and I trained him for about a month before the next race in company most days, and about a length in front of the others. I would have the other two horses in company, one on each side go up and engage him into the far turn, and then fix it to make sure my horse on the lead, picked it up enough to regain that length advantage. Never allowing him to be passed. That seemed to change his mind.

We ran him in a longer race than usual so the fractions would be slower early, which allowed him to break and make the lead. Long story short, he won 8 in a row. All on the lead, and all relaxing early and repelling all challengers. That is him in my icon here.

In his case it made him a warrior after a win or two. He fell in love with it. Your brother is a darn good horseman from all I have seen. I'm sure he knows this stuff, but if he is so inclined, have him try this in the morning and see if the rider feels a difference after a couple of weeks. If so, and if the races written offer that opportunity, maybe he can give it a try.
Just a thought from and old timer to an excellent current conditioner.

Best of luck.

I'm not a horseman but what you say there makes a lot of sense to me. In fact I have said to my brother I thought he needs to be trained to lead and stay ahead, as he looks like he just wants to run with other leaders instead of pass them when coming home.

I've sent one of your posts to my brother before and he liked the way you spoke and the analysis in that one, so will shoot him this one too. I don't think he generally likes to tell the trainer how he thinks they should do their job but I'd be happy to see him think about what you said and maybe push a little more than he does in general.

Horse will have maybe 3 or 4 more races this campaign then a spell until Aussie Spring racing season. Being set for a 5 million+ $ race in November (2nd in that would be just fine for 1.5mil lol)

Have to admit losing a bit faith in him as the big race winner he was expected to be though.

[str]

I'm not a horseman but what you say there makes a lot of sense to me. In fact I have said to my brother I thought he needs to be trained to lead and stay ahead, as he looks like he just wants to run with other leaders instead of pass them when coming home.

I've sent one of your posts to my brother before and he liked the way you spoke and the analysis in that one, so will shoot him this one too. I don't think he generally likes to tell the trainer how he thinks they should do their job but I'd be happy to see him think about what you said and maybe push a little more than he does in general.

Horse will have maybe 3 or 4 more races this campaign then a spell until Aussie Spring racing season. Being set for a 5 million+ $ race in November (2nd in that would be just fine for 1.5mil lol)

Have to admit losing a bit faith in him as the big race winner he was expected to be though.

Opti,

If you send it, please send this as well. This is purely respectful trainer to trainer stuff. And he can find my old record in equibase if he would like.
I'll PM you my name if you don't already know it.


All respect to your brother and anyone can second guess after the fact. Lord knows I was about 1000 times. So I hope he knows I respect his ability and am simply talking horseman to horseman like we would on the rail in the morning with my training buddy and comparing notes.
I made sure that the race I tried him long the first time was a perfect setup for him going long enough that the fractions would be easily set by him. 24 and 48 and change was what I was looking for. No stupid speed in the race with no chance to win but might mess it up for me . No early outside pressure was a must have in that 1st attempt.
Try as you might, it still takes some luck to break well, not get pinched or whatever leaving the gate, and get a lead without burning him up. But if he can do that, and he has shown the horse that way in the morning, chances are the lightbulb will go off and the horse will say, "yeah man, I'm into this."
If not, it's just one race and he can revert back to sprints.

Please tell him, all respect to him. And yeah, I scoffed at all the wanna be trainers telling me that stuff as well. I would wonder where they were days after the race and what they were doing at 5 AM when I was at the barn in the winter freezing my ass off . Lol.

[Optional]

Opti,

If you send it, please send this as well. This is purely respectful trainer to trainer stuff. And he can find my old record in equibase if he would like.
I'll PM you my name if you don't already know it.


All respect to your brother and anyone can second guess after the fact. Lord knows I was about 1000 times. So I hope he knows I respect his ability and am simply talking horseman to horseman like we would on the rail in the morning with my training buddy and comparing notes.
I made sure that the race I tried him long the first time was a perfect setup for him going long enough that the fractions would be easily set by him. 24 and 48 and change was what I was looking for. No stupid speed in the race with no chance to win but might mess it up for me . No early outside pressure was a must have in that 1st attempt.
Try as you might, it still takes some luck to break well, not get pinched or whatever leaving the gate, and get a lead without burning him up. But if he can do that, and he has shown the horse that way in the morning, chances are the lightbulb will go off and the horse will say, "yeah man, I'm into this."
If not, it's just one race and he can revert back to sprints.

Please tell him, all respect to him. And yeah, I scoffed at all the wanna be trainers telling me that stuff as well. I would wonder where they were days after the race and what they were doing at 5 AM when I was at the barn in the winter freezing my ass off . Lol.

Don't fear, you don't sound disrespectful at all. In either post.

And I will pass on both.

[JBEX]

I just did. Oh man, she could be special even at the age of 4.
Hooks a real nice game one just inside her. If she can handle running against her with all that experience and her only running twice in two years, she could be tough to deal with down the road.

very nice win..will be interesting to see if she makes it back at a reasonable interval this time

[batt33]

Thanks for checking out the result.

That was it's 7th 2nd place, which I am sure many owners would take if told their horse would do that for them. But honestly, it was a real disappointment. It jumped and settled exactly where the trainer asked for. Jockey rode it exactly as asked. Maybe a bit wide on the turn and he said the horse did not like the tight turn on the track. But it had every chance to overhaul the winner but just never gave anything extra. I don't think it knows when to fight for the line, or only has the one speed in it.

On the upside the time was awesome and would have won most stakes level city races. And there was 36k prizemoney for 2nd, which covers a large chunk of annual costs from one race.


My own photo finish shot.

lots of stuff going on my way.... normally I watch that horse........ sorry I missed it..... but wow the photo you put up caught my eye... nothing better!

[batt33]

seems like california burrito (army mule) will be running in the pat day mile (derby day) with an outside shot of getting into the derby ..lots of you tube material on him if interested

hmmm wonder who won last year!

[JBEX]

hmmm wonder who won last year!

that's right seize the grey .. had to look it up with my less than steel trap memory

set up nicely for the cutback to a mile off his last race ..where he belongs imo vs running in the derby

[JBEX]

army mule sunday

aqu 2

#1 army gal (5-2)
@ 1:42


tam 7

#3 hymn of heaven (15-1)
@ 3:24


woodbine 8

#7 midnight mascot (6-1)
@ 4:41





.

[JBEX]

army mule saturday



tampa 8 @ 3:55

#2 over the mark (2-1)


oaklawn 5 @ 3:38

#3 razorback army (4-1)




.

out of money @ 2-1


winner $17.80

[JBEX]

out of money @ 2-1


winner $17.80 <<<

for the sake of being consistent with what I'm doing related to army mule
have decided that I am no longer going to post "results" for him.. having something to say about a trip or possibly the results of an important race might be an exception to that..if str,batt or anybody else wants to mention something about a result that's fine (really not necessary) but from me it'll just be a notice that one is running

[str]

for the sake of being consistent with what I'm doing related to army mule
have decided that I am no longer going to post "results" for him.. having something to say about a trip or possibly the results of an important race might be an exception to that..if str,batt or anybody else wants to mention something about a result that's fine (really not necessary) but from me it'll just be a notice that one is running

All that sounds fine JBEX. The nice thing about these AM's is because they always seem to give everything each race, finding a troubled trip that muddies up the form is great because you know the effort from the horse will be there close to 100% of the time next out. That is saying a lot in that I'm not sure I have ever seen that before throughout a large group of horses by the same sire.

[JBEX]

All that sounds fine JBEX. The nice thing about these AM's is because they always seem to give everything each race, finding a troubled trip that muddies up the form is great because you know the effort from the horse will be there close to 100% of the time next out. That is saying a lot in that I'm not sure I have ever seen that before throughout a large group of horses by the same sire.

yes I had a feeling besides you really liking him in general that from your experience what he has done is something special ..
the consistent effort part which I would not be able to tell is a great thing to know ..can certainly ,as you mentioned, offer value betting them off a troubled trip


hopefully the new crop does well and already off to a good start with blowout winner pinky finger at keeneland

[JBEX]

be interesting to know in a situation like this where a sire has exceeded expectations in his first 3 or 4 crops is he likely to at least maintain performance as the fees go up.. realize you have to take into account being bred to higher quality mares

[Madison]

Here's what I find so frustrating about racing. LP R9 OC 56K. #3 out of my stable. Down to 5 entries. Days OFF 1-378, 3-216, 4-211, 5-98, and the 6-18. Unless you have inside insight why would anyone be betting here?

[Madison]

And my next stable horse. AQ R7 Now down to 3 horse field. #7 Baff/Irad now 3-5.

[str]

Here's what I find so frustrating about racing. LP R9 OC 56K. #3 out of my stable. Down to 5 entries. Days OFF 1-378, 3-216, 4-211, 5-98, and the 6-18. Unless you have inside insight why would anyone be betting here?

Well, that is true. However, the horses in your stable are seemingly top notch bred horses from big time racing which means you won't find many of those that are asked to run at lesser levels without being given every chance to be elite. It no problem having them in there but any horse who does not run for 9 months or more, has sustained a major problem most likely with at least one mayor surgery. Those types do take 10-15 months sometimes to be ready to go.
Nothing wrong with following the best bred horses but you will find that they are going to get extremely long layoffs compared to less expensive horses.
It goes with the territory of following the elite horses. And as a rule, these horses will be ready to win when they start back. Lesser quality horses (15K runners or less)most likely will not be afforded the same luxury due to cost. Bottom ;line is, less expensive horses are not able to afford the same luxuries as the high end might. Kind of the same as people unfortunately. Not trying to be blunt, just brutally honest and trying to show that there is a difference, again, unfortunately.

Any insight will need to be determined from the trainers stats with length of time off, the rider selected, the workouts, etc.
Hope that makes sense.