Horse Racing questions and answers

[JBEX]

mistake repost

[JBEX]

they have another son of dubawi standing at claiborne farm named "demarchelier"..his race record and pedigree is much more impressive than galawi's yet stud fee only $5k and the avg yearling price was unimpressive (last year)..no info on 2yo sales for whatever reason..retired at 3 winning 3 of 4
including allowance , msw at kee and grade 3 at belmont (turf of course)..but the common theme retired early probably a negative

[JBEX]

they have another son of dubawi standing at claiborne farm named "demarchelier"..his race record and pedigree is much more impressive than galawi's yet stud fee only $5k and the avg yearling price was unimpressive (last year)..no info on 2yo sales for whatever reason..retired at 3 winning 3 of 4
including allowance , msw at kee and grade 3 at belmont (turf of course)..but the common theme retired early probably a negative

his maiden win was as a 2yo (actually that was at aqueduct)

[str]

his maiden win was as a 2yo (actually that was at aqueduct)

QUOTE : "they have another son of dubawi standing at claiborne farm named "demarchelier"..his race record and pedigree is much more impressive than galawi's yet stud fee only $5k and the avg yearling price was unimpressive (last year)"




Just trying to read between the lines of the sales prices and obviously not seeing the individuals, with that type pedigree, you would think the sales prices might have been up. What would make them lower? the horse and the way he/she was put together as well as moved when walking.

Interesting to keep an eye on moving forward.

[JBEX]

QUOTE : "they have another son of dubawi standing at claiborne farm named "demarchelier"..his race record and pedigree is much more impressive than galawi's yet stud fee only $5k and the avg yearling price was unimpressive (last year)"




Just trying to read between the lines of the sales prices and obviously not seeing the individuals, with that type pedigree, you would think the sales prices might have been up. What would make them lower? the horse and the way he/she was put together as well as moved when walking.

Interesting to keep an eye on moving forward.

I don't get it ..seems the credentials should bring more especially with his abbreviated but successful race record ..dam was unraced but a full sister to some monsters and by sadlers well..you can get a pdf of the female family on the bloodstock page

http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/170936/demarchelier-gb

[JBEX]

one other thing of interest is galawi's broodmare sire is galileo and demarchelier's is sadlers well who is the sire of galileo

[JBEX]

they raised army mule to $12.5k for 2023

[JBEX]

they raised army mule to $12.5k for 2023

do you think this means (besides them making an extra $400-500k for the season) that he will attract better quality mares ..maybe the logic being some of the lesser quality ones owner's won't want to go the extra amount while the one's spending at the next levels up might want to take a shot because of his successfull freshmen year ?

[str]

do you think this means (besides them making an extra $400-500k for the season) that he will attract better quality mares ..maybe the logic being some of the lesser quality ones owner's won't want to go the extra amount while the one's spending at the next levels up might want to take a shot because of his successfull freshmen year ?

They will definitely attract better quality mares. Everything you said is exactly what will happen.

People all seem to react to something at the same time. I've always found that fascinating. I always got a kick out of watching people at the beach go to the movies. On a sunny day, you can sit anywhere you want. The theater is empty. On a rainy day, you have to stand in the rain around the block to get in . Lol. Always cracked me up.

Same thing here. Everybody will react at not only the racing record but mainly the sales prices and jump at the chance to breed to him. But like everything else, he needs to stay solid because if he falters, everybody will jump ship at the same time.

Expect real good things from this horse for at least a couple of more years even if he slows down a bit. No sign of that now though.

[JBEX]

They will definitely attract better quality mares. Everything you said is exactly what will happen.

People all seem to react to something at the same time. I've always found that fascinating. I always got a kick out of watching people at the beach go to the movies. On a sunny day, you can sit anywhere you want. The theater is empty. On a rainy day, you have to stand in the rain around the block to get in . Lol. Always cracked me up.

Same thing here. Everybody will react at not only the racing record but mainly the sales prices and jump at the chance to breed to him. But like everything else, he needs to stay solid because if he falters, everybody will jump ship at the same time.

Expect real good things from this horse for at least a couple of more years even if he slows down a bit. No sign of that now though.

good to know that's how it works..with what he did with his first crop (sales and on track) I agree that he'll likely continue to move forward with better mares ..what he really could use is at least one of his first crop to become a graded stakes winner next year..guess if it's early enough next year or towards the end of this one could affect what mares he gets next year


thanks str

[str]

good to know that's how it works..with what he did with his first crop (sales and on track) I agree that he'll likely continue to move forward with better mares ..what he really could use is at least one of his first crop to become a graded stakes winner next year..guess if it's early enough next year or towards the end of this one could affect what mares he gets next year




thanks str

That would be one heck of a bigtime accomplishment for a freshman sire that stood for 7,500.

[JBEX]

That would be one heck of a bigtime accomplishment for a freshman sire that stood for 7,500.

agree you have to factor in the fee..he's already had 2 listed stakes winners..one of them a $500k (listed lol) at kentucky downs and the other for $100k at horseshoe indianapolis..the ky downs horse also finished 3rd in a g3 at belmont (winner of that race was 47-1)..was a big field

[str]

]agree you have to factor in the fee.[/B].he's already had 2 listed stakes winners..one of them a $500k (listed lol) at kentucky downs and the other for $100k at horseshoe indianapolis..the ky downs horse also finished 3rd in a g3 at belmont (winner of that race was 47-1)..was a big field

You sure do JBEX.

It's like an undrafted player beating out a high draft pick.

His 1st year was fantastic.

[JBEX]

You sure do JBEX.

It's like an undrafted player beating out a high draft pick.

His 1st year was fantastic.

next thing is will they go a distance..remember todd said in an early promotion video that he thought he could if he had stayed around..of course he's a little biased ..had a shot at it as a 1/5 in a horseshoe indy stakes and gave it up in the stretch finishing a distant 3rd..only one race though and of course not making a judgement off that

if you want to see the race or any of his winners (they did put that there even though he was 3rd) they are on his "bloodhorse stallion register" page

[JBEX]

he's a grandson of a .p. indy and his sire won 4 stakes going 2 turns which includes sweeping the 3 louisiana preps to the ky derby..might give him some route producing credentials even though army mule tried it

[Pigpen]

next thing is will they go a distance..remember todd said in an early promotion video that he thought he could if he had stayed around..of course he's a little biased ..had a shot at it as a 1/5 in a horseshoe indy stakes and gave it up in the stretch finishing a distant 3rd..only one race though and of course not making a judgement off that

if you want to see the race or any of his winners (they did put that there even though he was 3rd) they are on his "bloodhorse stallion register" page

Trying to catch up here on the conversation. Is the above quote in reference to the Army Mule that was retired undefeated?

[str]

Trying to catch up here on the conversation. Is the above quote in reference to the Army Mule that was retired undefeated?

Yes. We are sold on Army Mule. But..., Going 2 turns is maybe his last hurdle .

Interesting to see if they can. Seems like they have a decent shot to do so but you never know until you see it.

[Pigpen]

Yes. We are sold on Army Mule. But..., Going 2 turns is maybe his last hurdle .

Interesting to see if they can. Seems like they have a decent shot to do so but you never know until you see it.

Great conversation. Love to read and research pedigree lines. I had forgotten about this guy. Will follow his babies along with you gents.

[JBEX]

he's a grandson of a .p. indy and his sire won 4 stakes going 2 turns which includes sweeping the 3 louisiana preps to the ky derby..might give him some route producing credentials even though army mule tried it

forgot the "never" .. kind of important

[JBEX]

Great conversation. Love to read and research pedigree lines. I had forgotten about this guy. Will follow his babies along with you gents.

he had a real nice freshman season pigpen.. the bloodstock stallion page has some of his top auction sales.. I once found a site that listed all his auction sales and prices were real impressive factoring his fee.. going to try and locate it and maybe you have some idea where that could be found?

[JBEX]

he had a real nice freshman season pigpen.. the bloodstock stallion page has some of his top auction sales.. I once found a site that listed all his auction sales and prices were real impressive factoring his fee.. going to try and locate it and maybe you have some idea where that could be found?

actually it's also on his stallion register page.. I saw it somewhere else where you can sort them in price order and the top 20-30 were very expensive.. it kind of shows on his 2021 yearling sales as avg is much higher than the median price

[mcaulay777]

I Have lost touch with racing now i just follow Saratoga and Gulfstream but the Championship Meet has really fallen off less Turf racing and More Tapeta races during the Winter i dont understand i may change to the Fair Grounds this year, My question now.I see no one at the Track no one caught a little of Santa Anita on Saturday maybe 6 people around the paddock in 1991 they were 3 deep except on big days but every story on racing i read at the end of the meet is how high the handle is up even Ft Erie. Where is this money coming from computers tvg there is that much money out there where does the handle at Parx comes from on A Tuesday.I was at Remington a couple of Wednesday ago.A few people there at 7pm post but by 10pm.Other then the grooms i was the only fan! "Sorry for long post i dont know how to edit "

[Pigpen]

he had a real nice freshman season pigpen.. the bloodstock stallion page has some of his top auction sales.. I once found a site that listed all his auction sales and prices were real impressive factoring his fee.. going to try and locate it and maybe you have some idea where that could be found?

J, I use this link. It shows all of his babies and you can use the drop down link for the year. To find the auction of each you will need to click on the individual foal/horse and then hit the auction price. I bet there is a better site but I use this one mainly to research the earnings of each progeny.

https://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=9797751&registry=T

[Pigpen]

I just noticed it only lists the top 20 in earnings of each year. That is a shame.

[JBEX]

J, I use this link. It shows all of his babies and you can use the drop down link for the year. To find the auction of each you will need to click on the individual foal/horse and then hit the auction price. I bet there is a better site but I use this one mainly to research the earnings of each progeny.

https://www.equibase.com/profiles/Re...751&registry=T

funny I use the equibase app a lot and didn't think of that..I figured out how to see all the auction prices for his 2021 yearlings..other place you could sort them in order but you can't have everything

http://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-register/stallions/170575/army-mule

this is his bloodstock page and I figure start you here to get a feel for the layout rather than right to the info


1)sales

2) 2021

3) yearlings


listed in alphabetical order of the name of the dams


if you go through it you'll see some big prices for an inexpensive stallion

[JBEX]

J, I use this link. It shows all of his babies and you can use the drop down link for the year. To find the auction of each you will need to click on the individual foal/horse and then hit the auction price. I bet there is a better site but I use this one mainly to research the earnings of each progeny.

https://www.equibase.com/profiles/Re...751&registry=T

I like this also.. top 20 only but lots of information in one place

[str]

I Have lost touch with racing now i just follow Saratoga and Gulfstream but the Championship Meet has really fallen off less Turf racing and More Tapeta races during the Winter i dont understand i may change to the Fair Grounds this year, My question now.I see no one at the Track no one caught a little of Santa Anita on Saturday maybe 6 people around the paddock in 1991 they were 3 deep except on big days but every story on racing i read at the end of the meet is how high the handle is up even Ft Erie. Where is this money coming from computers tvg there is that much money out there where does the handle at Parx comes from on A Tuesday.I was at Remington a couple of Wednesday ago.A few people there at 7pm post but by 10pm.Other then the grooms i was the only fan! "Sorry for long post i dont know how to edit "

With the stay at home and bet options seemingly growing everyday, attendance has indeed taken a big hit. Not people watching and wagering though.
It is tough for anyone like yourself that used to see the big crowds especially on big days from back in the day to see seemingly empty grandstands and paddocks. I feel the same way as you. I guess it's the nostalgia of yesteryear as well as what we subconsciously expect.

But handle and people watching is waaay up from those days. You don't have to drive there anymore. You can bet from home and play multiple tracks. ( Betting multiple tracks is something I will never get used to. It's just the way I learned. Heck, when I ran a horse out of town but stayed in Md. I would have to call on the phone, talk to someone in the racing office and ask them where I finished. Or, drive to Monmouth Park , about 8-9 hours roundtrip to see my horse run.

It's a different world for sure but not necessarily a worse one. I think that once us old timers aren't around to complain and pine for the good ole days, it will be the normal function which will allow more people to bet and get involved in racing. Not that I'm looking forward to that. Lol.

Gone are the days of having to attend to play other than a bookmaker over the phone who would cut you off if you showed a profit after a while. The funny thing is, when I was at Laurel last May 1st for a reunion of racetrack workers like old jocks, trainers, grooms, etc. from the 70's thru I guess the 2000's , it was a Sunday.
And when I walked around the grandstand and clubhouse mid card, places like the actual grandstand were really empty. Dining room had plenty of people but incredibly the most people I saw were gathered in the sports bar area where they could watch multiple big screens.

The actual viewing of the horses in person was sparse at best. The paddock area was very thin as well. Man, it was a zoo getting out of the paddock back in the day on weekends as you alluded to.

One thing I noticed ( on TV this summer ) was that Saratoga was like the olden days with the crowd at the paddock and throughout the grandstand.

So here is what I would suggest as we both are probably about the same age and certainly are used to the old school track style. Plan on playing Saratoga if you can for the entire meet. If you can go, awesome. But if not, watch it from home. There will be big crowds and everything we wish we could still always see. But for the other tracks, don't let it get you down. Just know that what is happening is the new normal and we have to conform to it. Find a track you feel confident in. Be it Gulfstream, Fair Grounds or whatever. I don't know your handicapping style but if you like longer prices, I would suggest Oaklawn. If you enjoy favorites, find a place you are most comfortable.

The key to almost anything IMO is being comfortable with it and a feeling that you have a pulse on it. Find that and your track experience will immediately improve whether you are watching on TV or you are at the track.

I wish you luck with that.

Thanks for the question !

I hope my answer helped at least somewhat.

[mcaulay777]

Thanks, i guess i kind of answered my own question. I only go to the track about twice a year it is to visit Remington as i live in North Central Iowa I'm only 45 minutes from Prairie Meadows and I've only been there 5 or 6 times in 18 years i just don't like it there. I Would rather drive up to Minnesota or Remington instead. I Know probably now is the computer bettors make up 70% of the handle now maybe is that the right number. I Heard a interview with Mark Patterson of Mountaineer and he said the 2 dollar better is now gone. It is the sharks against sharks except for a few days a year.

[Pigpen]

Thanks, i guess i kind of answered my own question. I only go to the track about twice a year it is to visit Remington as i live in North Central Iowa I'm only 45 minutes from Prairie Meadows and I've only been there 5 or 6 times in 18 years i just don't like it there. I Would rather drive up to Minnesota or Remington instead. I Know probably now is the computer bettors make up 70% of the handle now maybe is that the right number. I Heard a interview with Mark Patterson of Mountaineer and he said the 2 dollar better is now gone. It is the sharks against sharks except for a few days a year.

If you ever get a chance make it to Oaklawn on a Saturday during the live meet. I think you will enjoy it.

[Pigpen]

With the stay at home and bet options seemingly growing everyday, attendance has indeed taken a big hit. Not people watching and wagering though.
It is tough for anyone like yourself that used to see the big crowds especially on big days from back in the day to see seemingly empty grandstands and paddocks. I feel the same way as you. I guess it's the nostalgia of yesteryear as well as what we subconsciously expect.

But handle and people watching is waaay up from those days. You don't have to drive there anymore. You can bet from home and play multiple tracks. ( Betting multiple tracks is something I will never get used to. It's just the way I learned. Heck, when I ran a horse out of town but stayed in Md. I would have to call on the phone, talk to someone in the racing office and ask them where I finished. Or, drive to Monmouth Park , about 8-9 hours roundtrip to see my horse run.

It's a different world for sure but not necessarily a worse one. I think that once us old timers aren't around to complain and pine for the good ole days, it will be the normal function which will allow more people to bet and get involved in racing. Not that I'm looking forward to that. Lol.

Gone are the days of having to attend to play other than a bookmaker over the phone who would cut you off if you showed a profit after a while. The funny thing is, when I was at Laurel last May 1st for a reunion of racetrack workers like old jocks, trainers, grooms, etc. from the 70's thru I guess the 2000's , it was a Sunday.
And when I walked around the grandstand and clubhouse mid card, places like the actual grandstand were really empty. Dining room had plenty of people but incredibly the most people I saw were gathered in the sports bar area where they could watch multiple big screens.

The actual viewing of the horses in person was sparse at best. The paddock area was very thin as well. Man, it was a zoo getting out of the paddock back in the day on weekends as you alluded to.

One thing I noticed ( on TV this summer ) was that Saratoga was like the olden days with the crowd at the paddock and throughout the grandstand.

So here is what I would suggest as we both are probably about the same age and certainly are used to the old school track style. Plan on playing Saratoga if you can for the entire meet. If you can go, awesome. But if not, watch it from home. There will be big crowds and everything we wish we could still always see. But for the other tracks, don't let it get you down. Just know that what is happening is the new normal and we have to conform to it. Find a track you feel confident in. Be it Gulfstream, Fair Grounds or whatever. I don't know your handicapping style but if you like longer prices, I would suggest Oaklawn. If you enjoy favorites, find a place you are most comfortable.

The key to almost anything IMO is being comfortable with it and a feeling that you have a pulse on it. Find that and your track experience will immediately improve whether you are watching on TV or you are at the track.

I wish you luck with that.

Thanks for the question !

I hope my answer helped at least somewhat.

STR with his finger on the pulse. Great reply. I miss the days of leaving town early to go to Hot Springs with my buddies. Some of the best times of my life.

[mcaulay777]

pp im planning a trip to Oaklawn sometime during that meet prob early dec or late in meet.Driving is always the issue for getting down there for me.Plus i love warm weather when i travel.

[JBEX]

hey str


"messier" makes his long awaited return in R2 @ kee today..think he looks good @ 4-1 ml but imo will be half that at post

[str]

hey str


"messier" makes his long awaited return in R2 @ kee today..think he looks good @ 4-1 ml but imo will be half that at post

It is an extremely reasonable spot for him to start back. You don't always see that these days.

Can't believe that he isn't ready to perform to expectations as he wouldn't have come here to not be very ready.

Most people here know my feelings about the connections and I'm not trying to do anything but point out the obvious. Some of his horses have not had that second kick turning for home that we got used to seeing. That is an overview of all his horses performances moving forward. That is not to say many won't win . That's crazy. He has the best stock around. It's just something to watch for in the next several months.

As for this one, he was cut out to be special and there is no reason to think he still can't be. From that view point, 4-1 would be a steal.
I agree he will probably be less. More like 5-2 or 2-1 but if you had told me that back in May, I'd say no way.
I cannot justify playing against him. Too much raw talent. So he seems like a very logical play and if he gets beat, oh well.

Good luck today JBEX. I'm playing catch up and trying to look at the races for today.

[mcaulay777]

Great interview with horseplayer Paul Maties by Krackman on wise cracks podcast. He basically answers my question above, Maties even says he is having trouble beating the game and the computer players have ruined the everyday player.

[str]

Great interview with horseplayer Paul Maties by Krackman on wise cracks podcast. He basically answers my question above, Maties even says he is having trouble beating the game and the computer players have ruined the everyday player.

Well, it has changed it no doubt. But with time everything changes. It's the ability to adjust that keeps you afloat.

I don't know, it just seems to me that if you want something to work, you work to maneuver yourself into a position that will lead to success.

Most everything will probably be different than it used to be, but that doesn't make it worse, just different.

We have experience on our side. We see things differently than we did when we were in our 20's.

The lyric, " I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now." never rang so true.

A computer is only as smart as the person or persons plugging the data into it.

Make the game about what you love about it. Enjoy it, like you always have. Don't let someone take it from you until YOU are ready to hand it over.

Nothing's easy. But things you enjoy are worth fighting for.

That's how I see it.

All the best Mcaulay.

Good luck to you.