Excellent response as always and totally agree with your opinion
thank you so much for your valuable time
thank you so much for your valuable time
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SBR
You see the Amsterdam Stakes? Shancelot looks like a rediculous horse.Comment -
Originally posted by cutchemist42
looked like the 2nd coming of groovy.. you should watch it strComment -
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Wow. Very impressive.Originally posted by JBEX
Thanks for the link.Comment -
Originally posted by str
no problemComment -
just checked the beyer... 121!!
haven't seen one north of 120 in a while.. can't say I'm shocked with that performance.. groovy hit back to back 130's (sprints...late 80's) at his apex and only horse to hit 130+ since he's been making figures.. not that that's the most important thing.. consistency the real benchmark.. certainly will make some of the big sprint races more interesting down the roadComment -
Can you speak on the importance of these big named trainers who get fed the best of the best consistently and are able to build these high end staffs that never receive credit...
jockeys are always underrated imo, but would love your thoughts...
as a successful trainer with a big time family in the game
If you have time
I’d love to hear a list of your top horsemen
ty as always for your time
sincerely Lkid1Comment -
Hi LKID,Originally posted by Louisvillekid1
Often times, asst trainers are either up and comers like I was , working to learn before going out on my own or trainers that either could not sustain or chose not to any more and wanted stability and to be around real nice horses.
Just because they took an asst. trainer job after being a trainer does NOT mean they did not know what they were doing. Some of those asst. trainers are tremendously talented horsemen. It was the business end or something else that got in the way.
So many things go into being a trainer that are not horse activities . Tough tough business.
So when you see a star mega trainer you immediately know they have a star set of asst. trainers as well as dedicated grooms and exercise riders.
Trainers are only as good as there weakest link.
I learned early on that having a top rider was really important. That said, sometimes a lesser rider fits a certain horse so well that the horse runs better for the lesser rider than it does the top rider. Strange but definitely true. Having the best rider in the race is a huge edge for the trainer but not necessarily a good betting proposition. Gotta watch the over betting on those riders.
Any rider that rides 4 -5 or more a day in NY is a leading rider at most other tracks.
The difference in NY riders and in my day Calif. Riders is as large a gap as NFL- CFL.
That's what is incredible about the Johnny V. And Ortiz brothers . Those guys stand out vs. the very best. It shows on the track as well. You don't see holes open up in NY. You will always see a hole open up in Md.
NY riders are more talented and can ride very tight while lesser riders cannot.
At Saratoga, it is the very best on display rider wise.
As for a list of top horsemen , anybody can name the top names. I guess it depends on the circuit and I have lost touch with a lot of people over the years. Is there any track in particular you wanted me to talk about? If it's Saratoga, there are a lot of them. But not saying that there are other top top trainers at other venues. It's not like jockeys.
Some people just don't want the hustle bustle of NY. But if they did, they would more than hold there own.
It's not like the NFL or CFL difference.
I hate to name names because I will forget someone and maybe mislead you. But, for instance, Barclay Tagg Came from the Whiteley stable. Enough said there. The Dutrow's from there dad who was great. James Ryerson came from the Tammaro barn . He is excellent but people might not know that. Kate Demasi was a Dutrow graduate. Timothy Hills is excellent But around Brown, Pletcher and those guys you don't recognize him. Mike Pino, Marios brother is very good. Mark Reid is top notch. Just too many to name. These people are not and were never drug trainers but true horsemen. There results might make someone think that it's gotta be the drugs but nobody on that list for sure. I guarantee that.
There are many many more and I am happy to talk about any that I know of. A ton of very talented trainers in Md. as well. I know I sound prejudice being from there but it was the home of many great riders and trainers. Everywhere they went, they were successful. Bud Delp was so damn good. The job he did on Spectacular Bid was great. From his barn came Jeff Runco who has trained at CT and won thousands of races. Lots of wins but I am not a fan. I respect his work and not a drug guy but his moral ethics he can stick up his rear end.
In racing, people don't all have to or want to train in NY. For me, I turned down offers to go there and NJ when it was all that and when I was the flavor of the month new kid in town.
I had a family that were not going to be all in on horses. You can't be a dad to your kids and a husband to your wife and travel all over the place . At least I couldn't. NY means FLA. or wherever in the winter. Jersey meant one hundred mile splits between tracks. That's why I stayed in Md. they were 40 minutes apart. My family had to come first. And in hind sight , it was a great decision for me personally.
If you give me a circuit in particular I can talk about it if I know them. Some places I just don't know like I used to though.
Or name some trainers and you will get a straight answer. Just as you always dofrom me.
Careful with my picks this Saturday at the spa. Will be traveling and going to throw some darts again in the contest.
I hope I did ok with some answers.
GL kid. All the best.Comment -
Again just thank you so much
I could feel your missing the game in the words
but did the right for you and yours
and maybe this thread keeps something alive
you must allow to apologize again for what transpired little while back
I’m just a handicapper, and had no way of knowing
never meant to offend
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however , Allow me to disagree
johnny v isn’t close to the Ortiz brothers
even in his prime
Pletcher went through that 4-6 year stretch where he was getting all goods
especially 2 year olds
gifted johnny v wins
mott / asmussen / ward / Gargan / brown
much better horsemen imo
and many others
however , I never met any of these people
so it’s not personal
just from a pretty strong handicapping perspective
——
i can succeed it whatever
but my life will never fulfilled
if I don’t get to be part of this game on that type of level
—-
i saw an interview the other day , Irad was handicapping the race in the form on camera
so smartComment -
I’m on record saying
manny Franco as good as anyone in the world
and your point with jockey for horses makes complete sense
hector Diaz jr perfect example
reason for the bugsComment -
One correction. I meant JCastellano not Johnny v. Total mistake. Sorry.
Of course Mott, and the names you wrote are great. I thought it might be helpful to name some lesser named trainers that are real good. But you are 100% correct with your short list.
Yeah, I do and will always have a love for the game. I do miss it sometimes. But no way I would trade back what I got and have for what might have been. I got to live a dream and win a training title, owners title, and multiple highest % trainer awards .got to compete for leading trainer against KT Leatherbury and he beat me several times the last day or two. Not a bad thing to lose to a HOF'er . I'm good with that. Damn proud of what I did and will never know what might have been but have a wife, kids, grandkids that know me, see me, and I got to watch goals scored , a lot of home runs hit, graduations and things I never would have seen or attended had I stayed. Tough to leave but tougher to stay. No regrets Lkid.
As I type this I am at the beach with my entire family ,their spouses and 5 grandkids . That would not happen with my old occupation. I only know one way to train and that is all in.
And yes again. This thread allows me to help others get a closer look while being able to talk about the game and think about it. Without this, I probably wouldn't that much. So I guess we help each other. For that I am very appreciative.
Gonna take my 3 year old grandson into the ocean to get his feet wet now.
Hope I typed this ok. Tough on the phone.
Thanks LKID. All the best to you my friend.Comment -
Lol you crushed it again even on mobile
javy 4 time eclipse and I think the summer derby he like 6 wins 2 seconds in last decade
I’ve been closely following these smaller claimer owners
like 25k claiming here at toga
they buy , ship to top tier trainers
win
and most end up claimed
seems difficult , but also low overhead
something that I might be able to afford tho
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One of my more difficult races to cap is when top tier trainers have multiple uncoupled
I know they aren’t just hoping for the best
and top tier aren't trying to set up to cash the bigger ticket
I’m completely ignorant on the process of entering a race
but I truly believe I could be valuable
to a team , helping with selecting fields to run against
but once again , I don’t even know if you get to evaluate that beforeComment -
Dam couldn’t gimmie the heads up on here comes your man
I capped it tho
nice oneComment -
It's Saratoga and he is down on stock somewhat.Originally posted by Louisvillekid1
Winning there is free advertisement.
Get hot and the phone doesn't stop ringing.
Every horse her walks over is spotted to the best race the book will offer .
BTW., I left Pat McBurney off my list of real solid horsemen that most don't know so well.
Tammaro, Forbes disciple and is sharp as a tack.
Knew him from Bowie in the 70's.
Give him a 2nd look at 20-1.
Always rooting for you Kid !!
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Q. I’ve been closely following these smaller claimer ownersOriginally posted by Louisvillekid1
like 25k claiming here at toga
they buy , ship to top tier trainers
win
and most end up claimed
seems difficult , but also low overhead
A. Everybody wants these 16-35K claimers up there that can win. The trick is to be able to get them. A few months before the meet when a horse runs at Belmont for instance for 25k that looks solid, there might be 5 or 6 claims in for the horse. They draw the winning claim out of a bottle, like pea pool if you know that, and it is all luck winning a shake. And like you said, you usually only get one shot especially early in the meet because there are 5-6 claims in for your horse.
It's great when it clicks but you need luck. But hell, you need that with everything right? Lol.
Q. One of my more difficult races to cap is when top tier trainers have multiple uncoupled
I know they aren’t just hoping for the best
and top tier aren't trying to set up to cash the bigger ticket
A. They are always tough to figure as were my horses when I had multiples in a race. Here is a rule of thumb on the mindset of that. If you know that the trainer has 3,4,5 horses for a race and can only run 2 of them, you can bet, especially up there, that the 2 best of the 5 are running. The others will probably drop down which makes them very solid off the drop. Being able to see this unfold is a HUGE edge that almost nobody follows. But it absolutely exists. So figuring that the 2 best in that trainers barn are running, is one 8-5 and the other 7-1? Heck no. They are probably very close in the trainers mind. Sooo, THAT is an overlay on the higher priced horse as the fans will probably be all over the favorite who probably has an Ortiz brother or JC while the other one has Manny Franco who , you are correct, IS a race rider. Solid as they come. So in the trainers mind they are probably 2-1 and 3-1 but reality is they are 8-5 and 7-1. I see an edge, don't you?
It's not at all about cashing a bet. Honestly, that stuff is for shortstops at Penn. Nat. or wherever, but not up there. Now, Roy Lermon on the turf at 40-1 in the last race one day up there like a maiden race or A other than, yep, that is cashing a bet AND winning at Saratoga.
Nobody is practicing at Saratoga. That is like running a play you never practice in the Super bowl.
Q. I’m completely ignorant on the process of entering a race
but I truly believe I could be valuable
to a team , helping with selecting fields to run against
but once again , I don’t even know if you get to evaluate that before[/QUOTE]
A. There are trainers that are pretty good but just can't learn to read a condition book that well. It took me probably 3 years to get the hang of the claimers and longer for the allowance horses. It can improve your win% by 10 points if you can get a rhythm with it.
One of my dearest friends at the track came to Md. around 1979 and was the asst. racing secretary in Md. He helped teach me to read the writer of the book as well as the book itself. I had never thought of that. And most still don't. But he was dead right. Loved that guy. He went on to become the racing Secretary at Gulfstream and Hollywood Park. Sadly, he passed away at 53 about 13 years ago.
We used to sit around and burn one back when we were young and single and we came up with " what if they ran a starter handicap race for only grey and roan horses". We nearly soiled ourselves laughing about that . Years later, when he was in Florida as the head racing secretary, he called me one day and told me to look at some race in the form he had written . And there it was, 4 and up greys and roans only, going long. I couldn't believe it. He actually did it. And, it was a huge success. Pretty sure they still run those. And some say that cannabis is bad for you. Wow. Thinking of that made me laugh and damn near cry within a minute. My man Bobby Umphrey! One of a kind, in all the right ways.Comment -
hey str
thought you'd be interested.. mark reid has a horse in the test stakes @ saratoga... worked 3 days ago at pimlicoComment -
Hey STR: Who was your favorite horse you trained and why? Also a favorite pony you did not train but really thought highly of. One of my favorites was Birdstone. I know he ruined Smarty Jones bid for the Triple Crown, but he was smaller horse who gave his all. Great call by Tom Durkin that 2004 Belmont. Thx.Comment -
Originally posted by Easy-Rider 66
have a hunch it's going to be the one in his avatar (he trained) .. he told the story once but forget the detailsComment -
Hey STR: Looks like you tied for first in BEAT The Bag SAR 8/10 edition. Good job.
Comment -
Thanks Easy !Originally posted by Easy-Rider 66Hey STR: Looks like you tied for first in BEAT The Bag SAR 8/10 edition. Good job.Comment -
Certainly on the very short list JBEX.Originally posted by JBEXComment -
Q. Who was your favorite horse you trained and why?Originally posted by Easy-Rider 66
A. Can't narrow it down to one. I went back and looked through every winner I had and made a list. There were 26. Lol. Got it down to the top 3.
BTW, I forgot that I trained a horse named Game Winner in 1980. Won a race with him. Thought that name sounded familiar.
Also, some of the best horses I trained are not on this list. Several Stakes horses for sure. You didn't have to be real good to be a favorite with me. The fastest were not necessarily my favorites.
Here goes.
In no particular order:
Grey Squall- My 1st horse I ever entered and saddled as a trainer. She won at Pimlico. They say the 1st is always the hardest. She got it all started for me.
Ernie's Lad- Cheap Charlestown horse that improved from 7500 3 yr olds into allowance. Went short, long, turf, dirt. Great claim. Very cool horse.
Ambold- 1st horse I bought in an auction. Timonium 2 year old sale. Paid about 8k. Won an Allowance race or 2. Gave me the confidence to continue doing that. Thanks pal.
Sasega, Hotsola, Steal The Beat, Jump Buck And Go, Dancing Memories, Elkridge Judax, Sport News, Japson, Run And Wiggle, Tears And Kisses. All claims that really got happy and improved a lot. Probably about 50 or 60 winners in there. Thank you girls and guys.
Mr. October- Bought him at the 2 year old sales for about 8k. Named him. Won a bunch and lost him for 35k in NY. That was bank back in 81-82. Thanks Reggie!
Lord Mahlon- Claimed him for 10k at Timonium. Was a 4 furlong speed ball. Got him to go up to 6F on the grass. Won at Monmouth, Laurel, all over the place. Set a track record somewhere. Can't remember. He had bad feet so he LOVED the grass.
Mydrone- Speaking of bad feet. He was GB bred and was cut out to be a real nice horse. Foundered badly . They ran him for a tag at Pimlico, I claimed him. Ran him back in 5 days and he galloped. Loved the grass . Think I had him in 84-85 and lost him. Claimed him back in 87 and won some more with him. All credit to my blacksmith and his grooms. They made me look like I had a clue but without all that attention to his feet, he never would have won.
Silver Quest- Super fast 4 furlong horse. Had a bowed tendon so probably only ran him 6-8 times a year but when he was ready, he usually won. Very cool horse.
Tough Terms- Charlie Hadry told be that Private Terms loved the turf but nobody seemed to know. Cheap horse I tried on the grass because of Charlie and he went from cheap claimer to allowance horse. Loved long on the grass. Thank you Mr. Hadry. RIP sir.
Once Twice- Bought him at the sale and he could run. Needed long . Finished 4th as a 3 year old in the W P Burch Stakes at Bowie and 3rd in the Barberry Stakes at Keystone. Think I paid 14k for him. Just missed being a real nice horse.
On A Springday- A new owner that bred a horse or two had a mare that has been stopped on as a 2 year old. They bred her but she didn't take. So after a 2 year layoff, I started training her. She got better everyday. Really better ! She was not ready in time to run as a 4 year old and 5 year old maidens were not allowed in Maryland. So I entered her in a race at Keystone knowing that if she lost, they would not let her back on the grounds. She had beaten a 20k boy in two workouts so I was about as sure as you can be that she was going to run a nice race. But after 3 years, well, you never know. I sent my own rider up with her so those crooks up there could not screw around with her. She won easily. All the help bet on her. What a morale boost that was for all of us. Oh, that rider I sent up? You probably have heard of her. Julie Krone. Nice ride Jules ! What a great person she is.
Silver Bullet Band- A homebred that I named. Loved Bob Seger. Saw him everytime he came to the Cap center. Not a "good" horse, but most of mine were claimers anyway. But indeed a very Cool horse. Short career but a heart of gold. Tried hard to overcome knee problems. ( Also named a homebred Still The Same and won a few with her ).
Needachant- I've talked about him before in here. Post 21 as well as other times I'm sure. Bought him out of a field as a yearling. Think it was 1200.00 bucks. By nothing out of nothing. Long story short, he won allowance races I'm pretty sure and Johnny Campo claimed him from me at the Meadowlands. We did very well with him. His claim to fame though is he is the horse that hurt Pleasant Colony and forced him to retire. Very cool horse. But hated the gate.
Rescue Mission- I never appreciated her as much when she was running. I had her for years starting around 1979. Another Charlestown horse. I used to love to claim horses from there. I learned from her that sometimes there are horses that are pretty smart and just decide early in a race that it is not what they care for or maybe not their day. I can't say that I was happy about that at the time though. I was frustrating to watch her not put out fully. But I learned that that was her and you were not going to do much about it. In hindsight, her running line for me was pretty awesome. She was a mid to high claimer. She was a bleeder. Had to control that and we did. But other than that, fairly sound. That was probably because she did not kill herself when she was in a tough spot in the race.
She ended up with 38 starts, 14 wins, 1 second, 7 thirds and 8 fourths. That 14 and 1 shows that when she was close she made it happen.
My mom bred her when she was finished racing .
My top 3:
Can't choose a number one. Gotta go with top 3 in no order.
1. Tors Baby- I've talked about her in here. Would work 3/8ths in 42 and run 3/8ths in 34 in a race. Always had terrible ankles. A heart of gold. Could NOT touch her ears. She would go crazy. Every gate crew was warned prior to running her in a different state. She won a bunch of races for my mentor before I started out on my own in 1976. For me , she was 15 starts with 4 wins 4 seconds and 2 thirds. All very high claimer , allowance or Stakes races. When her career ended, we bred her and she had a few foals we raced. She taught me so much. And she helped put my name on the map. I loved her. Everything you could ask of as horse she delivered on.
2. Overfly- I claimed her on 11/21/92. It was important to get the claim right because I did not have much money behind me at the time. I came up with her as a claim. Real glad I did.
She went right up the ladder and won a Md. Million race. 33 starts 9 wins, 6 seconds, 8 thirds,1 fourth about 120k earned. She got me back going again right when I needed it the most. I will always owe her for coming through the way she did.
3. Kindest Cut- JBEX called this one. The horse in my avatar. I could put others in there but that picture is so cool. And it reminds me of Larry Saumell who is riding him. You rarely see that angle picture. The track photographer did that for the Baltimore Sun. They were doing a piece on him because of the streak AND it was a slow news cycle in July and August for Md. racing. I know I have told the story in here so won't bore you with that. A word search will find it if anyone cares.
Q.Also a favorite pony you did not train but really thought highly of.
A. I have spoken about Lucky Lord in here I think. If not , I sure should have. Lexington Park was in the stall next to Lucky Lord . Those two were special horses. I was the groom for those two before becoming an asst. trainer.
But big time names , I remember a ton of them but without hesitation the greatest male horse I ever got close to or saw race was Secretariat. I cannot possibly do it justice to try and describe what he was compared to other horses. He was so massive, he didn't look like the other horses.
And I will say IMO but seriously, it not really an opinion as much as a fact, Ruffian was the greatest female I have ever seen run a race. I still get goosebumps thinking of what I saw at Monmouth Park that day she destroyed Hot And Nasty as a 2 year old. That was freakish.
Again, it's in this thread. Those four horses I named were the reasons I decided to make racing my life for all those years.
So there's the list. But I must say , I probably trained about 2500 different horses, maybe more, for a lot of years. And for all the accolades, trophies, pictures, and momentos I have received, the ones that really deserve all the credit are the grooms, hot walkers, exercise riders, and foremen I had the pleasure of employing, the owners who entrusted me with their horses, and most of all, the horses themselves. They are the real heroes. Me, I just was lucky to have been given the opportunity to train them, and place them in races I thought they could succeed. I hope I held up my end of the bargain. I know, they held up thiers.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane Easy. I appreciate it.
BTW, who is the mare and foal in your avatar?
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THx alot STR. Good read no doubt. Looks like you really enjoy looking back. It shows your passion for the game. The colt in my avatar is a Bodemeister colt. Not sure if it's a horse named Southern Phantom who has a white face and has run at NYRA tracks. Not sure who the mare is. Thx again.
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If the horse is Southern Phantom and I think it is. HIs mother is Out for RevengeComment -
How hard is it to dirty up a horse, and fool the other trainers, or is it enough to fool the betting public? By "dirty" I simply mean, training races on surfaces not opportune to the horse, or the wrong distance. To me it would seem hard to fool the other trainers.
Are these considered standard practice? Take Maximum Security's loss in the Pegasus Stakes. I viewed this as a possibly a dirty race situation.Comment -
Q. How hard is it to dirty up a horse, and fool the other trainers, or is it enough to fool the betting public?
A. You can fool some of the people all of the time, and mostly if not all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Any claiming trainer that is paying close attention would spot nonsense a mile away. So would some savvy customers.
Q. By "dirty" I simply mean, training races on surfaces not opportune to the horse, or the wrong distance.
A. There are plenty of ways to do that without the obvious off track or wrong distance. Most would recognize those tactics and simply put a line through the race. I know I would. With video replays, it is there for all to see.
Q. Are these considered standard practice?
A. Absolutely not.
Q. Take Maximum Security's loss in the Pegasus Stakes. I viewed this as a possibly a dirty race situation.
A. Zero chance it was what you are viewing as possible.
I talked about this at length on page 101 post 3512. The follow up posts from others in posts 3513-15 shed more light on this subject. I encourage you to read them. They will not doubt be helpful.
My comment about this:
I remember being in high school and going to Charlestown or Shenandoah Downs and knowing nothing about horses but wanting to learn how to bet my 2.00 a race. About once or twice a card I would here the so called "wise guys" say that so and so just pulled a horse or something to that effect. On occasion, maybe they were on to something but the vast majority of the time they were dead wrong. Not because it never happened but because they did not know what they were actually seeing. But back then, the other reason was it was an excuse they could use to soften the sting of the losing ticket they had. After all, they had a reputation to uphold to us dummies of being a " wise guy".
It might have looked like that, especially if a fan was trying to observe that happening, but even today, people say this stuff so I watch the race, and it is clear as to what was going on in the race. It was my profession, not theirs, so I have a full understanding of it while they assumed. I guess there is nothing wrong with that other than it is incorrect.
Back then, purses were about 800 or 1,000 to the winner and while money went a lot further then, that was not very much. So games, IMO, had to be played at minor tracks with small purses to put food on the table. Sad but true.
But with today's purse structure, a trainer would have to be out of their minds to forgo winning 10k, 20k, 30k, hell 100k to cash a bet. It makes no sense whatsoever. They stand everything to lose if caught, and very little to gain. Enough people are smart enough to see that person for what they are and reputation is a big deal on the backside. Lose that, and the only people that will come near you are other low lifes. And because winning races along with higher win% will attract more clients. More clients means more horses, more wins, more money.
I was once a customer only, with no ties to anyone on the backside, before I took a job there. When I and my group walked into the track our sole purpose was to try and win a bet. And because of that, it is human nature to think that everyone there is thinking the same way. But, that is not the case at all. Every gambler wishes they could stiff a horse and cash a huge ticket. It's a dream that all gamblers dream, myself included before I started working there. But that is simply not reality for 99.9 % of trainers and jockeys.
Maybe it was back in the day, but not anymore. Not where purses are the way they are today.
Does it still happen ? I'm sure it does. Often? No. And most lose more often than they win. That is a fact.
We see guys drop a ball or miss a shot and swear the game was scripted. Just read the players talk section for all the fixing they talk about. That is because that is what THEY think and therefore others within the game must be thinking the same thing. Guy has a chance to make 5 million a season for 3-4 years but he misses a ball on purpose to cash a bet? Really?
It is not reality 99.9% at least, of the time. But good luck convincing those that feel that way. So I won't try to.
But what I just did do is something fewer and fewer people seem to do everyday.
I just told you the truth.
Hope it helps.Comment -
here is question: Why do USA tracks have starting gate stall handlers while UK tracks do not? Seems to me after watching thousands upon thousands of race bad starts happen as frequent in both scenario's...Comment -
I do not know for sure why UK does not have gate handlers for sure. What I do know is the entire culture over there is based on relaxed atmosphere for the horse whereas in the U.S. the vast majority of horses are trained AT the track where it is always a heightened or tense atmosphere.Originally posted by littlekona
UK trainers that have been around that culture try and find venues in the U.S. where their horses can take long meandering walks to and from the track before and after training. Fair Hill in Md. is a perfect example.
It is much more helter skelter when at the track where you only have a few hours a day to train all the horses. It can be like rush hour with all that is going on in those few hours.
On farms and places like England, everything is slowed down so that transfers to the horse, or at least it has a chance to. Typically you have several more hours a day to train your horses.
I never trained away off the track. I was always at the track and on a timeline. I DID find that if I had a horse that was real keyed up, training at a track in the woods, like Bowie had, was great for the horse. It was in the back of the barn area and well away from everything. Just a track in the trees and it was great! But in town like Pimlico, typically the horse was mentally cooked if they were an unstable type.
Delaware had a training track that was also nice and of course, Saratoga has the huge Oklahoma Training track on the grounds but well away from the main track. Those really do help all the horses at least some and some of the horses a lot..
I always knew that training off site was probably better for the vast majority of horses but shipping to race was tougher instead of just walking over. Guess it was pick your poison.
Sorry I don't have a more concrete answer than that.Comment -
Look, I've been watching these animals for long enough to know that the odds of breeding a champion, or even a plain winner are far worse than betting against the house.Originally posted by str
Owning race horses is a very poor investment, if you're the average owner, period. The odds are vastly against you, by a factor far greater than the poor gambler trying to beat the house and state's take.
What this means is ..... you're essentially buying a race car that depreciates, not stock in a company like Amazon. For most owners, this is simply a sport, ALSO. The vast majority of owners are not buying these animals to make money, they're owning them for the fun of getting their picture taken with their friends. That's the real truth.
This is just a game for most owners.
The other truth, regardless of your experience, is that the sport can survive more truth than you give it credit.
As an owner of that grossly expensive race car, I want odds. I want the purse when I get get it, but I really want the odds, for the fun of it. That's what I'm paying for, and I don't care if it's against any so called moral code of conduct. Save that for the tracks marketing department.Comment -
Ownership wouldn’t be so bad if nomination fees where not involved....But yea I agree unless your a hands on owner that’s trains it’s a tough game to beat esp at tracks with 8k pursesComment -
Originally posted by JBEX
R2 #6 ain't none lucky (6-1) (lacey gaudet who ran 2nd about a month ago here with this horse)
should also mention because I missed it last time that this msw is restricted to horses that were purchased at auction for less than $45k..that makes it a different type of field than w/o that restriction
posts 3575-3585
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Not only against morality.Originally posted by TerraNonFirma
It's a federal crime.
And I don't speak for any marketing department.Comment -
The only nomination fees I ever dealt with were for Stakes races. There was never a cost for all other races.Originally posted by littlekona
Being a hands on owner is certainly the way I would go.Comment -
Wow. Very cool condition.Originally posted by JBEX
That makes it a no brainer for sure.
Hope she wins.
Thanks JBEX.Comment
