UFC 152: Jones vs Belfort

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  • PunisherIND
    SBR MVP
    • 02-24-11
    • 4979

    #1
    UFC 152: Jones vs Belfort
    UFC 152: Jones vs. Machida II

    Date: Sep 22, 2012

    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Venue: Air Canada Centre
    Broadcast: Pay-per-view and FX
    • Champ Jon Jones vs. Lyoto Machida - for light-heavyweight title
    • Joseph Benavidez vs. Demetrious Johnson - for inaugural flyweight title
    • Michael Bisping vs. Brian Stann
    • Evan Dunham vs. T.J. Grant
    • Matt Hamill vs. Vladimir Matyushenko
    • Charles Oliveira vs. Cub Swanson
    • Charlie Brenneman vs. Kyle Noke
    • Vinny Magalhaes vs. Igor Pokrajac
    • Dan Miller vs. TBA
    • Marcus Brimage vs. Jim Hettes
    • Seth Baczynski vs. Simeon Thoresen
    • Mitch Gagnon vs. Walel Watson





    played jones at -470, but may hedge with machida kotn. as pissed as dana is at jones, if machida scores the ko (only way he wins imo), you can pretty much lock it up for kotn.
    Last edited by SBRAdmin3; 06-10-14, 02:15 PM. Reason: Link Not Working - Removed-)
  • Crassus
    SBR MVP
    • 01-08-12
    • 1538

    #2
    Bisping by submission at + odds ya think?
    Comment
    • THE_LOCKSMITH
      SBR Hall of Famer
      • 08-25-08
      • 7237

      #3
      Jon jones vs vitor belfort
      Comment
      • Vaughany
        SBR Aristocracy
        • 03-07-10
        • 45563

        #4
        Originally posted by Crassus
        Bisping by submission at + odds ya think?
        May be worth a flier. I don't think Bisping is going to take Stann down very easily though. Aside from already having much improved takedown defence from what he used to have, Stann has also spent some time working with Chael Sonnen, and currently has Raymond Jordan living with him during this camp. Raymond is one of Jordan Burroughs' training partners/coach, he's a two-time NCAA All-American at Missouri and fourth most wins in Missouri history. IMO Bisping's defensive grappling is a lot better than his offensive grappling and he's admitted this himself.

        Quite funny video of Raymond Jordan signing autographs when people thought he was Jordan Burroughs after Burroughs won Gold!...
        Last edited by SBRAdmin3; 06-10-14, 02:15 PM. Reason: Link Not Working - Removed-)
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        • El Nino
          SBR Posting Legend
          • 05-03-12
          • 18426

          #5
          Hey V, it's not like Jackson's MMA doesn't have good wrestlers. Do you really think it matters at this stage in a guy's fighting career that he's been training more wrestling? I feel like at this point in Stann's career, he either has it or he doesn't. As far as wrestling is concerned, he doesn't. I just feel like he's one of those one dimensional fighters.
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          • El Nino
            SBR Posting Legend
            • 05-03-12
            • 18426

            #6
            Also Benavidez vs. Mighty Mouse FOTN prop. There is NO WAY Dana is paying Bones a bonus this fight. I don't care if this is a FOTY candidate, Bones ain't getting any extra $ from pissy Uncle Dana.
            Comment
            • Vaughany
              SBR Aristocracy
              • 03-07-10
              • 45563

              #7
              Originally posted by El Nino
              Hey V, it's not like Jackson's MMA doesn't have good wrestlers. Do you really think it matters at this stage in a guy's fighting career that he's been training more wrestling? I feel like at this point in Stann's career, he either has it or he doesn't. As far as wrestling is concerned, he doesn't. I just feel like he's one of those one dimensional fighters.
              Yep quite right, but my point is that he isnt just abandoning working on his main weakness even though he's fighting a guy that is most likely going to keep it standing. His wrestling and overall grappling ability is never going to be close to the level of the top guys in MW but doesn't mean his continued improvements combined with natural athleticism wont be enough to stop somebody like Bisping from taking him down. If Bisping attempts those telegraphed trip takedowns like he did against Rivera then I cant see him having the same success. Also, if Bisping is attempting a takedown it means that he's in a range were you dont really want to be with Stann - close quarters where Stann can land uppercuts and knees like he did against Leben.
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              • Vaughany
                SBR Aristocracy
                • 03-07-10
                • 45563

                #8
                Originally posted by El Nino
                Also Benavidez vs. Mighty Mouse FOTN prop. There is NO WAY Dana is paying Bones a bonus this fight. I don't care if this is a FOTY candidate, Bones ain't getting any extra $ from pissy Uncle Dana.
                Yep I'll be on tht as well
                Comment
                • El Nino
                  SBR Posting Legend
                  • 05-03-12
                  • 18426

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Vaughany
                  Yep quite right, but my point is that he isnt just abandoning working on his main weakness even though he's fighting a guy that is most likely going to keep it standing. His wrestling and overall grappling ability is never going to be close to the level of the top guys in MW but doesn't mean his continued improvements combined with natural athleticism wont be enough to stop somebody like Bisping from taking him down. If Bisping attempts those telegraphed trip takedowns like he did against Rivera then I cant see him having the same success. Also, if Bisping is attempting a takedown it means that he's in a range were you dont really want to be with Stann - close quarters where Stann can land uppercuts and knees like he did against Leben.
                  Very true. I am starting to come around on Bisping and liked him at initial look in this fight. I just hope he stays smart and keeps it technical. He gets destroyed in a brawl here but if he's smart, out point him and mix in some ground work. If Bisping gets past the 1st round, I think he's ok. Did you have any initial leans?
                  Comment
                  • iQon
                    SBR MVP
                    • 04-08-10
                    • 1483

                    #10
                    I hear Machida turned the fight down so it's going to be Jones/Vitor.

                    Comment
                    • Vaughany
                      SBR Aristocracy
                      • 03-07-10
                      • 45563

                      #11
                      Originally posted by El Nino
                      Very true. I am starting to come around on Bisping and liked him at initial look in this fight. I just hope he stays smart and keeps it technical. He gets destroyed in a brawl here but if he's smart, out point him and mix in some ground work. If Bisping gets past the 1st round, I think he's ok. Did you have any initial leans?
                      There are a few options here IMO...either Bisping straight up and Stann TKO/KO (payout wont be great though), or Bisping by decision and Stann by TKO/KO if you don't think Bisping will be able to finish Stann which is what Im leaning to, or swapping Stann by TKO/KO with Stann KOTN at better odds.

                      As you say, if Bisping gets caught up in a brawl it's likely that Stann can take more punishment than Bisping can and Bisping will fall first. But even if he does fight extremely strategically and looks to outpoint him like he does in most fights like the Akiyama, Miller, Leben fights then he has a much better chance but even then he can still be caught. The fact is that he gets tagged in most fights. He was dropped by Wanderlei and Kang but showed great recovery and composure. He got tagged by Akiyama and Rivera and showed that his chin isn't bad at all contrary to what many sherdoggers claim. But regardless of whether it shows he has great recovery and half decent chin, it still also demonstrates that he is hittable and doesnt have as amazing footwork and head movement as some might think. And if he gets tagged by Brian Stann it's going to be very different to getting tagged by Kang, Akiyama or Rivera!
                      Comment
                      • AdamB
                        SBR High Roller
                        • 07-10-12
                        • 197

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Vaughany
                        There are a few options here IMO...either Bisping straight up and Stann TKO/KO (payout wont be great though), or Bisping by decision and Stann by TKO/KO if you don't think Bisping will be able to finish Stann which is what Im leaning to, or swapping Stann by TKO/KO with Stann KOTN at better odds.

                        As you say, if Bisping gets caught up in a brawl it's likely that Stann can take more punishment than Bisping can and Bisping will fall first. But even if he does fight extremely strategically and looks to outpoint him like he does in most fights like the Akiyama, Miller, Leben fights then he has a much better chance but even then he can still be caught. The fact is that he gets tagged in most fights. He was dropped by Wanderlei and Kang but showed great recovery and composure. He got tagged by Akiyama and Rivera and showed that his chin isn't bad at all contrary to what many sherdoggers claim. But regardless of whether it shows he has great recovery and half decent chin, it still also demonstrates that he is hittable and doesnt have as amazing footwork and head movement as some might think. And if he gets tagged by Brian Stann it's going to be very different to getting tagged by Kang, Akiyama or Rivera!
                        One thing I can't seem to remember without watching tape is how Stann's cardio is. Don't remember the Massenzio fight very well and past that all the fights were quite quick. What are your thoughts on it?
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                        • Vaughany
                          SBR Aristocracy
                          • 03-07-10
                          • 45563

                          #13
                          Originally posted by AdamB
                          One thing I can't seem to remember without watching tape is how Stann's cardio is. Don't remember the Massenzio fight very well and past that all the fights were quite quick. What are your thoughts on it?
                          Solid cardio, combined with a will to win and mental strength that few others have. The fact he managed to sub Massenzio in third round after a draining grapple-heavy fight in his first fight at MW (where there were questions about how the weight-cut would effect him) speaks volumes IMO. Although obviously he may have never faced an opponent who pushes the pace like Bisping (at least in stand-up department) where Bisping will be constantly moving and scoring points. Sonnen pushes a high pace but that was grapple based rather than stand-up
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                          • AdamB
                            SBR High Roller
                            • 07-10-12
                            • 197

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Vaughany
                            Solid cardio, combined with a will to win and mental strength that few others have. The fact he managed to sub Massenzio in third round after a draining grapple-heavy fight in his first fight at MW (where there were questions about how the weight-cut would effect him) speaks volumes IMO. Although obviously he may have never faced an opponent who pushes the pace like Bisping (at least in stand-up department) where Bisping will be constantly moving and scoring points. Sonnen pushes a high pace but that was grapple based rather than stand-up
                            Ah right, cheers mate. I also feel that while Bisping could outgrapple him, he might not want to take the risk of getting in close and having Stann potentially brutalise him from there - mostly a matter of Bisping being able to maintain his movement throughout the fight without getting clipped. I just can't see him being able to plant his feet to throw any 'power' strikes, because I think Stann can walk through almost anything Bisping can throw at him.
                            Comment
                            • Vaughany
                              SBR Aristocracy
                              • 03-07-10
                              • 45563

                              #15
                              Originally posted by AdamB
                              Ah right, cheers mate. I also feel that while Bisping could outgrapple him, he might not want to take the risk of getting in close and having Stann potentially brutalise him from there - mostly a matter of Bisping being able to maintain his movement throughout the fight without getting clipped. I just can't see him being able to plant his feet to throw any 'power' strikes, because I think Stann can walk through almost anything Bisping can throw at him.
                              yeah my thinking as well. One thing to consider (although completely speculative) is that Bisping might be overlooking and undestimating Stann (despite what he may claim in interviews) and get a bit reckless. Bisping has been more aggressive in his last three fights (particular against Rivera and Mayhem due to the beef between them I guess!) and against Sonnen he didnt really have a chance to push forward due to Sonnen's grind against the cage style. So maybe he will find it difficult reverting back to his more default style of backpedalling and circling and picking apart his opponents? Maybe he'll be in a false sense of security and think he can do the same against Stann as he did against Rivera and Mayhem? Again, just pure speculation
                              Comment
                              • AdamB
                                SBR High Roller
                                • 07-10-12
                                • 197

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Vaughany
                                yeah my thinking as well. One thing to consider (although completely speculative) is that Bisping might be overlooking and undestimating Stann (despite what he may claim in interviews) and get a bit reckless. Bisping has been more aggressive in his last three fights (particular against Rivera and Mayhem due to the beef between them I guess!) and against Sonnen he didnt really have a chance to push forward due to Sonnen's grind against the cage style. So maybe he will find it difficult reverting back to his more default style of backpedalling and circling and picking apart his opponents? Maybe he'll be in a false sense of security and think he can do the same against Stann as he did against Rivera and Mayhem? Again, just pure speculation
                                Well, if you include the fact that Weidman finished his last fight in spectacular fashion and isn't getting a title shot, you've got to think he knows he needs to put on a show. If he eeks out a decision with pitter patter shots, he's facing at least one more fight for the title, maybe against Weidman. He needs to put on an amazing performance here, and as you say that may lead to him being more aggressive which ultimately could be his downfall.
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                                • PaperTrail07
                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                  • 08-29-08
                                  • 20423

                                  #17
                                  UFC politics turning into some f\*g shit
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                                  • PaperTrail07
                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                    • 08-29-08
                                    • 20423

                                    #18
                                    and bisbing wont get near knocking out any quality fighter
                                    Comment
                                    • DirtyX
                                      SBR Wise Guy
                                      • 06-05-11
                                      • 686

                                      #19
                                      Well at least the card is stacked.
                                      Comment
                                      • Vitooch
                                        SBR MVP
                                        • 09-26-11
                                        • 3470

                                        #20
                                        I have a feeling Stann will knock Bisping out. Bisping fights timidly against big power punchers. It negatively affects his performance in the process. He was aggressive against Miller, Akiyama, and Mayhem because he knew he wasnt going to get knocked out. Against Wanderlai and Hendo he seemed to shy away from any exchanges in the fear of getting tagged.
                                        Comment
                                        • more_betterness
                                          SBR Sharp
                                          • 08-18-11
                                          • 344

                                          #21
                                          Thoughts on Benavidez v. Mighty Mouse? I already have a good amount on Joe B. at -280 and think he is literally superior in every area besides speed and footwork. McCall had success imposing his size/power against Johnson and Benavidez couples his power advantage with way more speed than Creepy.
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                                          • xelance
                                            SBR MVP
                                            • 11-25-10
                                            • 1750

                                            #22
                                            This card SHOULD be UFC 151, why the heck would it be UFC 152 if UFC 151 never happened? Doesnt make sense at all unless they want to call UFC 151 the lost event or some shit.
                                            Comment
                                            • more_betterness
                                              SBR Sharp
                                              • 08-18-11
                                              • 344

                                              #23
                                              Dana deemed 151 "The card that Jon Jones and Greg Jackson murdered" yesterday, or something along those lines.
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                                              • Crassus
                                                SBR MVP
                                                • 01-08-12
                                                • 1538

                                                #24
                                                [QUOTE=Vaughany;15766602]May be worth a flier. I don't think Bisping is going to take Stann down very easily though. Aside from already having much improved takedown defence from what he used to have, Stann has also spent some time working with Chael Sonnen, and currently has Raymond Jordan living with him during this camp. Raymond is one of Jordan Burroughs' training partners/coach, he's a two-time NCAA All-American at Missouri and fourth most wins in Missouri history. IMO Bisping's defensive grappling is a lot better than his offensive grappling and he's admitted this himself.

                                                Quite funny video of Raymond Jordan signing autographs when people thought he was Jordan Burroughs after Burroughs won Gold!...




                                                Fair nuff. I feel like he'll knock Bisping down and then Bisping will throw the triangle/choke. He just looked so comically lost on the ground against Sonnen. Though I spose he fought off submissions from Phil Davis.
                                                Last edited by SBRAdmin3; 06-10-14, 02:15 PM. Reason: Link Not Working - Removed-)
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                                                • PunisherIND
                                                  SBR MVP
                                                  • 02-24-11
                                                  • 4979

                                                  #25
                                                  If you’re looking to juice up your bet and don’t want to lay 3 to 1 one Joey B, then think about throwing him in a parlay.
                                                  Last edited by SBRAdmin3; 06-10-14, 02:16 PM. Reason: Link Not Working - Removed-)
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                                                  • PunisherIND
                                                    SBR MVP
                                                    • 02-24-11
                                                    • 4979

                                                    #26
                                                    jones/belfort ITD -750 on 5D
                                                    Last edited by SBRAdmin3; 06-10-14, 02:16 PM. Reason: Link Not Working - Removed-)
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                                                    • Beelzebubzy
                                                      SBR Hall of Famer
                                                      • 06-06-11
                                                      • 6995

                                                      #27
                                                      Parlayed it with Joey b and Cormier
                                                      Comment
                                                      • PunisherIND
                                                        SBR MVP
                                                        • 02-24-11
                                                        • 4979

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by Beelzebubzy
                                                        Parlayed it with Joey b and Cormier
                                                        I like it and was thinking along the same lines. I parlayed with benavidez and rory mac.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • Vaughany
                                                          SBR Aristocracy
                                                          • 03-07-10
                                                          • 45563

                                                          #29
                                                          [QUOTE=PunisherIND;15778308


                                                          [/QUOTE]

                                                          ha Is Jay Dee Gabe's stage name?!
                                                          Last edited by SBRAdmin3; 06-10-14, 02:16 PM. Reason: Link Not Working - Removed-)
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                                                          • MMA Fan
                                                            SBR Hustler
                                                            • 08-14-12
                                                            • 74

                                                            #30
                                                            Belfort's name seems to carry a certain cache because his career stretches from almost the beginning of the UFC to this phase of MMA. I think that's part of the reason this fight is happening.

                                                            With regards to the distance parlay, one thing that concerns me is Belfort's chin(which was great, aside from Silva, who always stops them anyways) and how he tends to fight very conservatively and defensively off his back. He gives up easily, but he tends to make it to decision. Jones is such a lethal finisher though, so the risk isn't much. But you never know. Jones seems to be trying to make his game well-rounded, so his finishing dominantly has went down, as he doesn't just take guys down and maul them like he could.
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                                                            • MMA Fan
                                                              SBR Hustler
                                                              • 08-14-12
                                                              • 74

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by Vaughany
                                                              yeah my thinking as well. One thing to consider (although completely speculative) is that Bisping might be overlooking and undestimating Stann (despite what he may claim in interviews) and get a bit reckless. Bisping has been more aggressive in his last three fights (particular against Rivera and Mayhem due to the beef between them I guess!) and against Sonnen he didnt really have a chance to push forward due to Sonnen's grind against the cage style. So maybe he will find it difficult reverting back to his more default style of backpedalling and circling and picking apart his opponents? Maybe he'll be in a false sense of security and think he can do the same against Stann as he did against Rivera and Mayhem? Again, just pure speculation
                                                              I dont think Bisping takes anyone lightly honestly, as cocky as he seems in interviews. He may talk the talk, but he fights very safely. Even with the Rivera fight, he was shooting takedowns in massive numbers early on, knowing full well that it would behoove him to get Rivera guessing and wear his shoddy gastank out. With the Mayhem fight, even with Miller massively gassed, he took awhile to finally go for the finish on the ground, and he kept himself in position to stand up at all times.

                                                              Originally, I was gonna steer clear of this fight due to the Bisping's lack of power vs Stann's power factor. But I just got the feeling we're gonna see Bisping turn this into a grappling and clinching contest, where his superior cardio will come into play. For whatever reason, Bisping just doesn't get tired in fights. That's hard to bet against.
                                                              Comment
                                                              • bjpenn85
                                                                SBR Hall of Famer
                                                                • 02-17-11
                                                                • 5059

                                                                #32
                                                                Its a good point. It may have something to do with the H-Bomb!
                                                                Comment
                                                                • Digo
                                                                  SBR Wise Guy
                                                                  • 01-21-12
                                                                  • 563

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Originally posted by PunisherIND
                                                                  jones/belfort ITD -750 on 5D
                                                                  I think this odd has value, i was expecting -900 or even worse. Very small chance this fight goes to the distance, to me, Jones is going to do exactly what Couture did with Belfort in the third fight between them. Belfort can't take Jones' gnp by 5 rounds and even if the miracle happens (Belfort by tko/ko), the fight will still be over inside the distance.
                                                                  Last edited by SBRAdmin3; 06-10-14, 02:16 PM.
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                                                                  • PunisherIND
                                                                    SBR MVP
                                                                    • 02-24-11
                                                                    • 4979

                                                                    #34
                                                                    new prop lines

                                                                    bones ITD -350
                                                                    stann ITD +350
                                                                    not stann by decision -514

                                                                    not mighty mouse ITD -1337
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • Beelzebubzy
                                                                      SBR Hall of Famer
                                                                      • 06-06-11
                                                                      • 6995

                                                                      #35
                                                                      Not mm inside = elite nerd style
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