UFC on Versus 5

**bjpenn85** · 08-08-11, 05:21 PM

One more thing. Which win do you like the most, oliveira ******* nick lentz from behind, or cerrones hard fought victory against crappy paul -should-never-fight-on-telly- kelly?

Most people that have well functioning eyes would favor oliveira.

wheres your glasses at man?

**koscheckbaby** · 08-08-11, 07:38 PM

Call me crazy, but I like Hardy over Lytle a fair bit. The matchup just works out well for Hardy, who is a counter-striker, going against Lytle and his aggressive, balls-to-the-wall striking. I'm not even concerned about the grappling difference, since I truly believe Lytle doesn't have the wrestling to get Hardy down. Let's not confuse Hardy getting taken down by wrestling studs like GSP and Anthony Johnson as some sort of drastic weakness against all comers. Mike Swick has underrated wrestling and he couldn't sniff a takedown on Hardy. Hardy's takedown defense should be good enough to keep himself upright against non-wrestlers.

**FightFightFight** · 08-08-11, 08:00 PM

Its not crazy. Lytle sucks ass. Hes Leonard Garcia with subs, and only 3 kos in 50 fights. Hes been outstruck in each of his last 8 fights, with the exception of Serra.

**Poppa Catfish** · 08-08-11, 08:29 PM

I can think of another gent who has been outstruck in his last couple and doesn't even have subs (or really any ground game to speak of)

but hey he sure did beat Mike Swick that one time, and we know how Mike has been lighting the world on fire

**RivaTrader** · 08-08-11, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by bjpenn85

I actually think ben henderson wins. Based on bocek. Miller had trouble with bocek, not only on the ground. But with stuffing takedowns his physics, everything really. Ben henderson dominated bocek. I may be completely off here, but what do you guys think? it has to be disturbing betting on miller looking how little trounble henderson had with bocek... I myself was convinced that bockek would defeat henderson.

I'm thinking the same. Also looking at the Henderson vs. Pettis fight, despite the showtime kick, Henderson was actually out striking Pettis in the later rounds as Henderson got more aggressive. He was very passive in his stand-up for the first few rounds but in an interview he said that he learned to be more aggressive. It showed in the later bocek fight.

**FightFightFight** · 08-08-11, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by Poppa Catfish

I can think of another gent who has been outstruck in his last couple and doesn't even have subs (or really any ground game to speak of) but hey he sure did beat Mike Swick that one time, and we know how Mike has been lighting the world on fire

Gimme a break. Condit and arguably Johnson are in a bit of a different league than Ebersole, Serra, Taylor, Burns, etc and no, his ground game doesnt stack up to GSPs or Johnsons. But thats a pretty lame comparison to Lytle.

**koscheckbaby** · 08-08-11, 08:52 PM

The thing with Lytle is he's at a point in his career when he could only decline from here. He's been very active and had a very successful career. But he's never been a top notch guy and he's accrued his share of damage. It's a perfectly reasonable scenario that Hardy, who is dying to get an opponent that doesn't take him down, wins this fight and looks good doing so.

**FightFightFight** · 08-08-11, 09:36 PM

I think hes showing his age too. Slowing down, gassing out, and hes been rocked almost every fight, although his recovery is amazing still.

**Poppa Catfish** · 08-08-11, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by koscheckbaby

The thing with Lytle is he's at a point in his career when he could only decline from here. He's been very active and had a very successful career. But he's never been a top notch guy and he's accrued his share of damage. It's a perfectly reasonable scenario that Hardy, who is dying to get an opponent that doesn't take him down, wins this fight and looks good doing so.

Lytle looked extremely lethargic and weak in his last fight, so you very well might be right. Could also just have hit a rough patch in training, Hardy on the other hand has looked in great shape and well motivated and still failed to fire in just about every one of his UFC fight. He finds himself in a much better matchup and finally at or around his class level, but we have seen him at this level before and he still hasn't impressed.

I think at best you will be hoping and praying the judges don't reward Lytle flailing his arms around for three rounds. Not exactly excited about that.

**Poppa Catfish** · 08-08-11, 09:45 PM

I should add that Mike Swick has absolutely atrocious wrestling, its seriously garbage.

My source is me, lol

**FightFightFight** · 08-08-11, 09:53 PM

Huge on Hardy straight up. Hardy Rd 3 +1500 is the icing on the cake. Hedged it with Lytle KO +1000. Anything could happen here, but im certain theres value in Hardy. Great matchup for him.

**Vaughany** · 08-09-11, 02:17 AM

Lytle's knees are shot, his meniscus is permanently damaged. This is going to effect his ability to throw heavy punches and go for takedowns. And Lytle was never the type of fighter to shoot for a double leg a la GSP, which is Hardy's main weakness. For Lytle to take Hardy down he'd probably look to do it at close-quarters with a trip but Hardy is more comfortable in these situations. He's also going to have a strength advantage over Lytle, and reach and height advantage which will make it even more difficult for Lytle to get a takedown - and that could all be irrelevant anyway because he probably won't even look for it

**koscheckbaby** · 08-09-11, 04:16 AM

Originally posted by Poppa Catfish

I should add that Mike Swick has absolutely atrocious wrestling, its seriously garbage.

My source is me, lol

It's not that bad. He trained at AKA with guys like Fitch and Koscheck to improve it. He beat prime Marcus Davis with his wrestling and generally was able to dictate where the fight took place at 170. Even in his last fight versus Paulo Thiago, he took him down with a nice double leg.

Not saying Hardy has great takedown defense, because obviously he doesn't. But I think it's fair to say that if Swick couldn't get Hardy down, Lytle probably won't either.

**Vaughany** · 08-09-11, 04:56 AM

Swick got stunned right from the get go in his fight with Hardy and wasnt the same after that, fought like a scared rabbit for rest of fight

**hoop22** · 08-09-11, 05:51 AM

good luck man

**Poppa Catfish** · 08-09-11, 06:37 AM

Originally posted by Vaughany

Swick got stunned right from the get go in his fight with Hardy and wasnt the same after that, fought like a scared rabbit for rest of fight

That plus his wrestling really is that bad. Again my sources tell me

Also a prime Marcus Davis? I can barely stand that term being used with Fedor, but now its being thrown about with cats like Davis?

**rocky mattioli** · 08-09-11, 06:45 AM

if they stand,ibelieve hardy`s striking is way too tight....lytle is sloppy as hell...short of a big shot(and with all of 3 k.o.`s,that`s a bit of a longshot),i like hardy here....

of course,maybe lytle goes on a fish oil i.v.,his fight i.q. increases by a few points and he decideds to take hardy down....

then,it becomes a long night for danny boy....

i still like hardy here(that`s "arrrr-deee" for our french canadian forum brothers).......

**Poppa Catfish** · 08-09-11, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by koscheckbaby

It's not that bad. He trained at AKA with guys like Fitch and Koscheck to improve it. He beat prime Marcus Davis with his wrestling and generally was able to dictate where the fight took place at 170. Even in his last fight versus Paulo Thiago, he took him down with a nice double leg.

Not saying Hardy has great takedown defense, because obviously he doesn't. But I think it's fair to say that if Swick couldn't get Hardy down, Lytle probably won't either.

I think its fair to say Lytle will have great trouble in taking the fight down if he so chooses to do so, just have to disagree with you on Swick. I was just nitpicking based on first hand experience. Sorry to get off point.

(further nitpicking: Josh doesn't work on his wrestling at AKA, he does lots and lots of heavy bag work, conditioning, and jiu jitsu. Swick and him hooked up every now and then but more often than not they were doing their own thing during that time.)

**koscheckbaby** · 08-09-11, 08:20 AM

Glad to see others are on Hardy. Over on Sherdog, it feels like everyone is on Lytle, so I was worried I was underrating him. But I think Hardy has this fight, since he's a more patient striker and can make Lytle pay for his aggressiveness

**Squareguy** · 08-09-11, 08:46 AM

I have a really hard time betting against Miller here, I've been on him the last four fights...he's hungrier than ever. He's gotta think that this is his title shot right here.

**Vaughany** · 08-09-11, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by Squareguy

I have a really hard time betting against Miller here, I've been on him the last four fights...he's hungrier than ever. He's gotta think that this is his title shot right here.

Cant help but think he's due a dodgy decision loss at some point tho

**kmdubya** · 08-09-11, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by Squareguy

I have a really hard time betting against Miller here, I've been on him the last four fights...he's hungrier than ever. He's gotta think that this is his title shot right here.

I'm putting a fair bit of change on Miller. He is a lot like Jon Fitch to me, except a little more well rounded. He is aggressive and is unrelenting, which totally frustrates opponents.

**The HOFF** · 08-09-11, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by Vaughany

Cant help but think he's due a dodgy decision loss at some point tho

Restitution for the dodgy decision he got over Bocek.

**Vaughany** · 08-09-11, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by The HOFF

Restitution for the dodgy decision he got over Bocek.

Indeed

**The HOFF** · 08-10-11, 03:00 AM

Need some odds! Anyone recall when they come out for a Sunday card? Could be today, Wednesday, or possibly Thursday. Bookmaker is usually consistent with UFC odds.

**Vaughany** · 08-10-11, 03:20 AM

Originally posted by The HOFF

Need some odds! Anyone recall when they come out for a Sunday card? Could be today, Wednesday, or possibly Thursday. Bookmaker is usually consistent with UFC odds.

Either tonight or thursday

**THE_LOCKSMITH** · 08-10-11, 12:08 PM

full card odds out on BookMaker

**kmdubya** · 08-10-11, 01:34 PM

I like Volkman as the dog there. Also good money on Noke.

**FightFightFight** · 08-10-11, 02:49 PM

Hmmm. Wonder why hettes opened -250.

**Vaughany** · 08-10-11, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by FightFightFight

Hmmm. Wonder why hettes opened -250.

What do u mean?

**Mr.Kitty** · 08-10-11, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by FightFightFight

Hmmm. Wonder why hettes opened -250.

Im not surprised, Bruce Leroy is one of the worst fighters in the UFC.

**kmdubya** · 08-10-11, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by Mr.Kitty

Im not surprised, Bruce Leroy is one of the worst fighters in the UFC.

On this card, I think that honor goes to Reinhardt. That guy is terrible but has a good record from fighting cans elsewhere.

**PunisherIND** · 08-10-11, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by FightFightFight

Hmmm. Wonder why hettes opened -250.

he actually opened at -285 (per bestfightodds). i think FFF meant that he was expecting leroy to open as the favorite since he's the better known fighter.

**Vaughany** · 08-10-11, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by PunisherIND

he actually opened at -285 (per bestfightodds). i think FFF meant that he was expecting leroy to open as the favorite since he's the better known fighter.

That would be ridiculous! Was obvious Hettes was gonna be a big favourite, he's a big prospect and a submission machine while it is obvious that Bruce Leroy is only in UFC due to his persona

**Vaughany** · 08-10-11, 03:57 PM

Looks like I bit too soon on Volkmann, at +109 now on Pinnacle.