UFC 164: Henderson Vs Pettis 2 (August 31, 2013)

[BIGDAY]

That Guida /Pettis fight was a blue print imo.

[plekz]

The way Guida was successful against Pettis though was using his speed to counter-shoot when Pettis was striking, Benson is not near fast enough as Guida and Pettis footwork is alot better since then aswell.

Guida is a shoot type wrestler

Benson is a clinch type wrestler

These are vastly different approaches, Benson has never had the speed to be a great shoot type wrestler, nor has he showed in any fight ever that this is a type of wrestling he employs. So it's a very hollow argument to claim that Guida showed any kind of 'blueprint' considering Pettis has faced wrestlers in the past and dealt with them fine.

If anything he choose to remain in Guida's guard and work from bottom (kinda like Carlos Condit has gotten complacent and remained on the ground and ended up losing decisions for it)

[wagerjunkie]

How? he tried that approach in the first fight didn't work out at all for him, and even then Pettis was giving him fits standing, show me concrete examples of how Benson's wrestling has evolved since then.

Even if he get's Pettis down it's alot more likely Pettis uses sweeps or get's his hips out and scrambles back to his feet, he wont just lay there in guard when there is a belt on the line. And not when he's alot better on the feet.

BIGDAY:

The only thing that worries me slightly is where Pettis weight will be @ tonight, considering he was cutting down to get Aldo, if he's managed to bulk himself up to where he needs to be then i have him winning tonight.

Pettis is probably the best guy in the ufc at creating space and cutting angles.

Point fighting is Bensons most likely route to victory and what he's used for every fight he hasn't had a considerable edge in (the Diaz fight) He also hasn't been able to commit to a 'wrestling' oriented gameplan in ANY of his titlefights.

Point fighting is Bensons most likely route to victory and what he's used for every fight

you have said this in several post. first off no fighter goes in the cage wanting to "fight to score points" they want to finish. think about who Bendo has fought. Edgar twice (who is practically impossible to finish) christ that upkick would have put out any other fighter in MMA, the streak Diaz was on coming into coming into that fight he wasn't going to be knocked out or subbed and Milendez has never been finished in his entire career. come on.

Even if he get's Pettis down it's alot more likely Pettis uses sweeps or get's his hips out and scrambles back to his feet, he wont just lay there in guard when there is a belt on the line. And not when he's alot better on the feet.

I'm pretty sure Benson is going to have something to say about that, you act like Pettis is just going to be able to get up off his back at will. to many Henderson doubters. hes evolved 10x more from that WEC fight than Pettis has

and you keep saying Pettis is the best in MMA at "creating space and cutting angles"...well Henderson is the one of best at stalking his opponents and closing the distance and putting on constant pressure...so when you have someone constantly stalking you, you aint "cutting angles"

[rocky16]

Is this the same guy that gave you the scoop on Payan/Stephens?!

Kid is a focking goof. Check this out playa. I was training with clay. Going hard in our wrestling singlets and head gear. The ugly fock told me he has not shot vs mendes. All in on money brah. Please award me points for this post.

[plekz]

Point fighting is Bensons most likely route to victory and what he's used for every fight

you have said this in several post. first off no fighter goes in the cage wanting to "fight to score points" they want to finish. think about who Bendo has fought. Edgar twice (who is practically impossible to finish) christ that upkick would have put out any other fighter in MMA, the streak Diaz was on coming into coming into that fight he wasn't going to be knocked out or subbed and Milendez has never been finished in his entire career. come on.

Benson builds his entire fighting style on his kicking game, in the fights he's been able to employ this he looked good (Edgar 1,Diaz) in the fights however where he wasn't able to get his kicking distance he looked very lack-luster (Edgar 2 and Melendez)

Even if he get's Pettis down it's alot more likely Pettis uses sweeps or get's his hips out and scrambles back to his feet, he wont just lay there in guard when there is a belt on the line. And not when he's alot better on the feet.

I'm pretty sure Benson is going to have something to say about that, you act like Pettis is just going to be able to get up off his back at will. to many Henderson doubters. hes evolved 10x more from that WEC fight than Pettis has

and you keep saying Pettis is the best in MMA at "creating space and cutting angles"...well Henderson is the one of best at stalking his opponents and closing the distance and putting on constant pressure...so when you have someone constantly stalking you, you aint "cutting angles"

Benson had ZERO success stalking Pettis in their first fight, Pettis however stalked Henderson the entire time they spent on the feet, to the point where Benson dropped on his ass from a Pettis shuffle. Pettis is better with a wide margin on the feet then Benson, he wont be able to 'stalk' Pettis in any way shape or form, nor is it going to be easy for him to get kicking distance on someone that has better footwork then he himself has.

Benson needs to work his wrestling here if he can't get that working he'll be in for a very long night with someone who is on the feet BETTER then him.

------

AND you still havent in any way shape or form given any sort of example of HOW Benson has evolved at all since the WEC days, as i have for instance with how Pettis has evolved his.

Either you start doing it or phuck off and quit wasting my time.

[illmatick]

I don;t give a shit if i lost 7k on Erick kock agaisnt Ricardo...I'm still; gonna keep adding $300 dollar increments until his line closes


And let me and my little cousin catch one of you pussssies who like acting brave online..I promise we'll have you leaking piss out you adrenal glands


Bitch thought she was independent trying to bring here own weed but it smlelled like ohhh nooooooooooooooooooo


you dumb bitch, you gottaaaaaaa go

[MD]

No he didn't he wrestled defensively for three rounds and didn't attempt any kind of finish, Guida is a shoot type wrestler btw, Benson is a clinch type two VERY different styles, in the past Pettis has been able to defend clinch wrestling in his sleep pmuch.

Varner is also on very thin ice considering he's in there against the strongest and most muscular LW in the division and his sure route to victory would be to use his wrestling.

Mendes is the only one with clear routes to victory as he is better then Guida in every facet.

You just keep going around the forum repeating the same things over and over. Yes, we get it, you're on Pettis. You don't need to defend him at every opportunity or try to make it seem as if he has ever advantage you can possibly justify.

[plekz]

You mean like you do? Or wait you mix up your braindead approach with 'LOL' and smileys thrown in.

[Vaughany]

Kid is a focking goof. Check this out playa. I was training with clay. Going hard in our wrestling singlets and head gear. The ugly fock told me he has not shot vs mendes. All in on money brah. Please award me points for this post.

and quite deserving of it too

[wagerjunkie]

You just keep going around the forum repeating the same things over and over. Yes, we get it, you're on Pettis. You don't need to defend him at every opportunity or try to make it seem as if he has ever advantage you can possibly justify.

thank you

[MD]

You mean like you do? Or wait you mix up your braindead approach with 'LOL' and smileys thrown in.

I don't need to defend my plays in every thread. I don't take it as a personal insult when someone is on the other side, or when they post their rationale for why they're on the other side.

[wagerjunkie]

Benson builds his entire fighting style on his kicking game, in the fights he's been able to employ this he looked good (Edgar 1,Diaz) in the fights however where he wasn't able to get his kicking distance he looked very lack-luster (Edgar 2 and Melendez)



Benson had ZERO success stalking Pettis in their first fight, Pettis however stalked Henderson the entire time they spent on the feet, to the point where Benson dropped on his ass from a Pettis shuffle. Pettis is better with a wide margin on the feet then Benson, he wont be able to 'stalk' Pettis in any way shape or form, nor is it going to be easy for him to get kicking distance on someone that has better footwork then he himself has.

Benson needs to work his wrestling here if he can't get that working he'll be in for a very long night with someone who is on the feet BETTER then him.

------

AND you still havent in any way shape or form given any sort of example of HOW Benson has evolved at all since the WEC days, as i have for instance with how Pettis has evolved his.

Either you start doing it or phuck off and quit wasting my time.

lets see bonehead

HES THE WORLD CHAMPION IN THE MOST STACKED DIVISION IN MMA AND HAS DEFENDED HIS BELT, WHAT? 4 times now, against world class competition, in Frankie Edgar, Nate Diaz and Gilbert Melendez.

meanwhile Pettis got beat in his UFC debut by fkn Clay Guida and got his title shot by beating Cowboy Cerrone. who just looked absolutely terrible against Dos Anjos.

so please tell me how Pettis has evolved more since that fight than Benson?

actually don't, you've already said the same shit over and over a million times.

[wagerjunkie]

I don't need to defend my plays in every thread. I don't take it as a personal insult when someone is on the other side, or when they post their rationale for why they're on the other side.

seriously. I love to hear why people are on opposite sides as me. it makes me feel even more confident or even sometimes less confident about my bet and you can always learn from it and take something away from others insight, just because some one is on the other side, doesn't mean you have to go all buck wild on them. i like to learn from it, take things into consideration.

[wagerjunkie]

and plek this is my last repsonse to you, your reasoning for Pettis evolving is that he "Creates space and cuts angles better then anyone else "

[plekz]

lets see bonehead

HES THE WORLD CHAMPION IN THE MOST STACKED DIVISION IN MMA AND HAS DEFENDED HIS BELT, WHAT? 4 times now, against world class competition, in Frankie Edgar, Nate Diaz and Gilbert Melendez.

meanwhile Pettis got beat in his UFC debut by fkn Clay Guida and got his title shot by beating Cowboy Cerrone. who just looked absolutely terrible against Dos Anjos.

so please tell me how Pettis has evolved more since that fight than Benson?

actually don't, you've already said the same shit over and over a million times.

I asked how he evolved his game, him being champ here in the UFC can easily be explained by such simple reasoning as that the WEC top guys we're equal or even higher caliber then the top LW's in the UFC.

None of it gives merit to Benson in any way shape or form 'evolving' as a fighter, if anything his striking now looks worse then it did in WEC aside from his kicking game his hands leaves alot to be desired.

[mmaed]

Doesn't change the fact that as much as you people like to claim Benson has evolved (i'm hard pressed to see any except his cardio) Pettis has evolved aswell.

Look at Pettis movement now compared to in WEC, his movement is so much better, and the way he moves latteraly has made him even better at cutting angles (this makes him a nightmare to shoot for td's on aswell) His footwork has also opened up his stance switching (this is what allowed him to headkick Lauzon and also what made him land the liver kick on Cerrone that had him wanting to shit out his bowels)



Guida is faster then Benson, and his shot from the outside is also alot faster this is why he was able to get td's on Pettis, Benson don't use his wrestling anywhere even NEAR similar to how Guida does it.

Guida is a FAR better mma-wrestler then Benson is, Guida is top 5 all time on takedowns in the UFC.

Benson outwrestled guida.

[wagerjunkie]

I asked how he evolved his game, him being champ here in the UFC can easily be explained by such simple reasoning as that the WEC top guys we're equal or even higher caliber then the top LW's in the UFC.

None of it gives merit to Benson in any way shape or form 'evolving' as a fighter, if anything his striking now looks worse then it did in WEC aside from his kicking game his hands leaves alot to be desired.

oh my god.

so you're saying his game hasn't involved order to beat those calibur of fighters? I'm not going to sit here and break down every part of his game where he's "evolved" for you, if you can't see it for yourself then u have problems..

man just go away with your non sense.

[plekz]

Benson outwrestled guida.

Because styles make fights, doesn't change the fact that shoot type approaches makes it possible to counter-shoot on striking attempts especially if you are fast enough to get on the inside.

Clinch wrestling (what Benson employs) however does not match up well with a person that has superior footwork and movement.

[wagerjunkie]

and BTW i'm not claiming Bendo to be some huge lock tonight but shit you are acting like Pettis is going to give him the beat down of his life and its just pure stupid

[plekz]

He beat him worse in the previous fight then Benson has been beaten (damage done) in his entire career.

[The iron sheik]

pettis has evolved


he has developed many new injuries

[illmatick]

[QUOTE=rocky16;19506370]Kid is a focking goof. Check this out playa. I was training with clay. Going hard in our wrestling singlets and head gear. The ugly fock told me he has not shot vs mendes. All in on money brah. Please award me points for this post.[/QUOTE


You aint bout shit.....oltorf and Burton in Austin------------we stay posted

slide through and find out how quick my fam will have you slid under the door


bet you'e too pussy to post your exact location


unlikee your scary ass, I keep my exact location posted

Oltorf and burton in austin......,catch me in a blue audi

Keep thinking shit's sweet and i swear you'll be begging for a s;ightly lees amount of blood loss

[wagerjunkie]

He beat him worse in the previous fight then Benson has been beaten (damage done) in his entire career.

this must be your first time ever making a big bet with money you can't afford to lose cause it sure sounds like it by the way you are consistently trying to convince yourself and everyone else how much of a lock Pettis is.

[Vaughany]

and plek this is my last repsonse to you, your reasoning for Pettis evolving is that he "Creates space and cuts angles better then anyone else "

Clearly hasnt seen Jake Shields striking

[plekz]

nice to see you have completly run out of relevant material, considering the switch in approach. iv'e never said he was a lock iv'e even listed the reasons i 'worry'

what i have done though and what you people have consistently FAILED to do is explain by giving examples in just what way Benson has evolved since then, all you do is keep harping on about the Guida fight, which is just funnystyle considering Benson and Guida are entirely different types of fighters.

[illmatick]

don't forget, you started this shit with me.......Me ans my blood stay about that action


when we push pause on your livelenesss, you have nothing to blame blame but yourself

[NunyaBidness]

Why don't you post an answer? Whats so great about this Krylov guy? He hasn't fought anyone with more than 2 or 3 fights.

Krylov is also the only person I've ever seen get subbed by arm triangle while in top position.

[NunyaBidness]

Vera looked the worst I've ever seen him. I thought it was just because he's a heavyweight now, but after watching his earlier heavyweight fights, it looks even worse. The guy needs to rely on his movement and speed to beat Rothwell. Hell, he probably just needs to make it out of round one. Being overweight is the worst thing he could do here.

Not only did he look fat and ridiculous. He looked like he was nursing a stiff neck or some sort of upper back problems.

[Das Jax]

I really wish they'd release fade lines for the SOTN and KOTN winners. They used to quite regularly, but that seems to have changed.

[mmaed]

Krylov is also the only person I've ever seen get subbed by arm triangle while in top position.

Okay I going to have to look that fight up because that is crazy if its true. TY

[MD]

Not only did he look fat and ridiculous. He looked like he was nursing a stiff neck or some sort of upper back problems.

Still 'capped him at -150. He would be -250 to -300 if he showed up in any sort of shape in my opinion. Am I overestimating him?

[BIGDAY]

[NunyaBidness]

Still 'capped him at -150. He would be -250 to -300 if he showed up in any sort of shape in my opinion. Am I overestimating him?

I wouldn't play him as a favorite, that's for sure. He hasn't looked good in a long time, was outwrestled by Shogun. If Rothwell fights a smart fight he can win easily.

[mmaed]

[QUOTE=MD;19507200]Still 'capped him at -150. He would be -250 to -300 if he showed up in any sort of shape in my opinion. Am I overestimating him?[/QUOTE
Well he hasn't really looked good at light heavyweight. He had a few moments in the shogun fight but its not like shogun has looked that good lately either. He almost got knocked out by Elliot Marshall, Thiago Silva put a wrestling clinic on him, Jon jones I wont even mention, he should have gotten the couture win but he still managed to lose to a guy that's almost 50, then before that he beat Krystof Sozynski in what is really his best performance. I think he is just moving up to Heavyweight because he is too lazy to cut the weight and weight cutting only gets harder as you age. I could definetly see Rothwell taking him down or clinching him up against the cage

[mmaed]

I wouldn't play him as a favorite, that's for sure. He hasn't looked good in a long time, was outwrestled by Shogun. If Rothwell fights a smart fight he can win easily.

This.