Red's corner - Talkin' baseball 4/16

[RoadDog]

Good call. What price did you bet? I like Gee to improve this year and be 0.8 - 1.1 WAR guy. GL on the rest of your plays.

+150 for 1u. Thanks LTA, BOL buddy.

[MidgetTossers]

tonight will be very telling IMO..timmy loves big games like this against another great pitcher..should be fun

[Redscot]

thanks for the website..i watch every single giants game and know tim pretty well as a pitcher..last start he was hitting 93-94 at times on the tv radar gun..im not concerned with him being 92 mph..its his location that is the problem because he hasnt found his mechanics yet..when he gets his fastball where he wants he is fine..its not about how hard you throw..whats funny to me is that even if he was at 92 mph last year(which im not saying is wrong) he still had a 2.74 ERA with 220 strikeouts while logging 217 innings..still dominant numbers that put him at the top of the class for pitchers...he has 94 mph in his arm if he needs it

Good points. It's interesting right now in MLB, every Tom, Dick and youngster seems to be mid 90's these days....yet and still you see many major league vet's eschewing their 4-seamers and velocity for cutters and movement. Like you said MT, end of the day it is always about location, movement, and changing speeds. I LOVE watching Livan Hernandez pitch...he shows what is possible, with an 82 mph fastball getting people out .

[MidgetTossers]

Good points. It's interesting right now in MLB, every Tom, Dick and youngster seems to be mid 90's these days....yet and still you see many major league vet's eschewing their 4-seamers and velocity for cutters and movement. Like you said MT, end of the day it is always about location, movement, and changing speeds. I LOVE watching Livan Hernandez pitch...he shows what is possible, with an 82 mph fastball getting people out .

no doubt Red..timmys fastball location is key to his dominance..if he doesnt have that then you get what you have seen already..my favorite guy of all time to watch pitch was Greg Maddux..that dude was incredible

[MidgetTossers]

yea timmys done

[Love The Action]

Will be very interesting to watch him tonight. He is still funky enough to be a hell of a pitcher,but he might be moving into a low to mid 3's era type pitcher. I had him pegged at 3.24 at the start of the season...

I ended up playing the Phillies about 15 minutes before gametime. I think Timmy will continue to be a solid pitcher, but it's going be the same style of pitching. By his own admission, he needs to adapt from a power pitcher to a guy that depends entirely on locating and command. It will come with time, but I'm betting Doc gets the better of Timmy on this night. GL.

[Redscot]

I ended up playing the Phillies about 15 minutes before gametime. I think Timmy will continue to be a solid pitcher, but it's going be the same style of pitching. By his own admission, he needs to adapt from a power pitcher to a guy that depends entirely on locating and command. It will come with time, but I'm betting Doc gets the better of Timmy on this night. GL.

He has enough movement and moxie to make it work, agreed. Think the Phillie play was the sharp one too.

BTW, watched me some Arrieta tonight and really liked what I saw. Gonna be keeping an eye on how he is priced next time out.

[Dexter]

what a hot mess he is....i was a pitcher playing organized ball/hs ball (torn elbow ligaments ended my college career - should have went for TJ)- velocity is very important. of course location is, but he will never be dominant again on a consistent basis sitting 90-91. he does not have the control that greg maddux had. though i actually think maddux threw harder in his prime.

you will still see those 12K games every now and again b/c his changeup/splitter is agruably the best in the game.

lets also not over-rate that ERA pitching in that division/park.

[MidgetTossers]

dex i respect your opinion but velocity is the least important thing pal..the dude had 220 k's last year with down velocity..should we over rate that too cause of the ballpark?BTW i was a pitcher myself too

[MidgetTossers]

and maddux never threw 97-98 MPH bro even in his prime

[Redscot]

I think Dex is right that velocity is very important, but for some pitchers more than others. In the baseball camp where my son trained here in the D.R. there is no shortage of kids who can throw 90+, however kids who can pitch is another story. Velocity can give you a leg up, no doubt, but if you are in the 90 range it starts diminishing in it's importance compared to location, movement, secondary pitches.

[MidgetTossers]

I think Dex is right that velocity is very important, but for some pitchers more than others. In the baseball camp where my son trained here in the D.R. there is no shortage of kids who can throw 90+, however kids who can pitch is another story. Velocity can give you a leg up, no doubt, but if you are in the 90 range it starts diminishing in it's importance compared to location, movement, secondary pitches.

no doubt Red its important but not as much as location, movement and secondary pitches..every major leaguer can turn a 98 MPH..movement and location and secondary pitches is how you get these guys out more times than not

[Dexter]

dex i respect your opinion but velocity is the least important thing pal..the dude had 220 k's last year with down velocity..should we over rate that too cause of the ballpark?BTW i was a pitcher myself too

if you were a pitcher, i dont even know what to say to that.....velocity is the "least" important thing? wow..
again, i am not talking about being a good #2 pitcher...i am talking about being a dominant shut down ace. guys like roy halladay, cliff lee have ridiculous control and actually dial it up to 95 when needed. did you just watch verlander end the game dialing it up to 101 3 times in the final at bat to gordon? lincecum cant even do 95, let alone 101 anymore. i am as big a lincecum fan/follower out there - the only baseball jersey i have is his.

how many innings did it take to get that 220k's? he had 9.1K/9 last year compared to 10.5 when he was truly dominant in 2008/2009. stop being a giants fan for a second.....he is a shell of his former self - and thats not good at his age.

is he a free agent after the year?

[Dexter]

and maddux never threw 97-98 MPH bro even in his prime

who is saying 97-98? i said maddux likely threw harder in his prime....this is lincecums prime at 27. maddux sat harder and topped out harder then that at 27. i will see if i can find this on fangraphs.

[Redscot]

if you were a pitcher, i dont even know what to say to that.....velocity is the "least" important thing? wow..
again, i am not talking about being a good #2 pitcher...i am talking about being a dominant shut down ace. guys like roy halladay, cliff lee have ridiculous control and actually dial it up to 95 when needed. did you just watch verlander end the game dialing it up to 101 3 times in the final at bat to gordon? lincecum cant even do 95, let alone 101 anymore. i am as big a lincecum fan/follower out there - the only baseball jersey i have is his.

how many innings did it take to get that 220k's? he had 9.1K/9 last year compared to 10.5 when he was truly dominant in 2008/2009. stop being a giants fan for a second.....he is a shell of his former self - and thats not good at his age.

is he a free agent after the year?

This is a great topic for conversation, unfortunately I have to wrap up for the night. Will definitely pick up on this theme though. I think you will be surprised Dex what the majority of upper echelon starting pitchers are averaging on their fastballs.

this is another resource for researching it:

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/forum.php

Look into player cards and the velocities they are throwing at 2012. Good stuff for debate

For example top starters for today:

Weaver 90.4 FB
Shields 91.72
Halladay 90.74
Verlander 94.3
Strasburg 96.15!!! wow

[MidgetTossers]

if you were a pitcher, i dont even know what to say to that.....velocity is the "least" important thing? wow..
again, i am not talking about being a good #2 pitcher...i am talking about being a dominant shut down ace. guys like roy halladay, cliff lee have ridiculous control and actually dial it up to 95 when needed. did you just watch verlander end the game dialing it up to 101 3 times in the final at bat to gordon? lincecum cant even do 95, let alone 101 anymore. i am as big a lincecum fan/follower out there - the only baseball jersey i have is his.

how many innings did it take to get that 220k's? he had 9.1K/9 last year compared to 10.5 when he was truly dominant in 2008/2009. stop being a giants fan for a second.....he is a shell of his former self - and thats not good at his age.

is he a free agent after the year?

ok u are talking about being a dominant ace..i dont know of many starting pitchers other than verlander who are in this category u are talking about..cliff lee and roy halladay throwing 95? im watching halladay right now and havent even seen him hit 92..he is dominant because he can cut it sink it and throw everything but hard stuff..lee is somewhat the same way..if u asked halladay if being able to throw hard is the most important thing he would laugh at you
as far as lincecum goes he had 220 k's in 217 innings..thats not top tier?...lincecum never threw 101 mph..fastest ive seen was 98 in his younger days..Matt Cain used to throw mid to high 90's and now hes consistently 92-93 mph because he is a PITCHER now not a thrower

when i pitched i was a hard thrower but location wasnt there and even high school kids could turn a fastball dude..u honestly think as a pitcher velocity is more important than location and movement? as a former pitcher yourself i would have to say "wow" myself to that

and no lincecum isnt a free agent after this year..they signed him to a 2 yr extension before this season

[MidgetTossers]

who is saying 97-98? i said maddux likely threw harder in his prime....this is lincecums prime at 27. maddux sat harder and topped out harder then that at 27. i will see if i can find this on fangraphs.

my mistake dex..i thought u were saying when maddux was in his prime that he threw harder than lincecum in his

[Dexter]

you're a die hard giants fan and you never saw lincecum hit triple digits in his first few years? i promise you he did, and i also know that lee and halladay can dial it up to 95ish when they need it. not every inning....

[MidgetTossers]

you're a die hard giants fan and you never saw lincecum hit triple digits in his first few years? i promise you he did, and i also know that lee and halladay can dial it up to 95ish when they need it. not every inning....

never saw it pal..maybe a few years ago lee and halladay could dial 95 but i havent seen anything close to that lately

[MidgetTossers]

funny i googled if lincecum ever hit 101 mph and turns out he did in 2009 at at&t..i must have been at that game cause i didnt remember seeing that..my apologies dex

aroldis chapman fastest ever at 105.1 MPH....wow

[bleedtoledo]

Tiger game was a nail biter at the end, I parlayed it with devilrays/socks under. Verlander struck dude out with bases loaded to end it. It was his 131st pitch & clocked 100mph