EasyStreet casino winner accused of using robot software

[C.S.]

a 9-team sports parlay--just to put it all in perspective. Rare, but definitely possible.

I see 8-10 teamers hit on a weekly basis. Didn't realize the Royal odds were so low, if that's the case doesn't seem nearly as strange.

[cc440unn]

[COLOR=#000000 !important]lolll go to costa rica and have a polygrapgh test for get paid....the most stupid thing I ever read. Look like he will never comeback from costa rica. Lol

No seriously. Why is it a problem the guys used an bots for play to Jack or Better. On the long term, you will always be the only one winner. so why do you care about a guys who's trying to play more faster. more faster he is playing, moremoney youre making. its just logic. Completly stupid your refuse to pay him for this reason. Its not like if he had scam your casino. He only win at YOUR odds with luck. So why do you not just pay him.

Anyway whats 49k for a bookmaker ?....
is 49k more important than your reputation?
Do you refunds customer who lost money in your casino with bots ? Dont think so,...Of Course.....so pay the guys who are winning with. Just another logical fact.

fukk easystreet

im not good in english. only wish i dont make too much error in this text.

fukk easystreet again[/COLOR]

[AimingHigh]

Pokerplayer22, I think you're actually reducing the OP's chances of getting paid easily. If you turn this thread into nothing but your own personal grudge thread against Alex Powers, that doesn't help the OP, who may or may not be a scam artist (in ways that don't relate to the exact facts here). Plus Sharpcat's posts suggest you have little reason to hold a grudge as you tricked two CS reps and tried to screw the book. So neither you nor the OP has clean hands here. Let it go, at least long enough for SBR and EZ to work together for a while longer.

[HedgeHog]

I see 8-10 teamers hit on a weekly basis. Didn't realize the Royal odds were so low, if that's the case doesn't seem nearly as strange.

Per hand, the odds are quite remote from what I read. Getting dealt a RF is over 2.5 mil to 1. Drawing into one is over 40,000 to 1.

[vitalyo]

Looks like sleazystreet changed their mind on what grounds they don't wanna pay
Remember First it was all about "Robots" (damn those robots ) .
Now 3 weeks later LOL . They figure they can use an excuse that player hit too many Royals . Ok whats next ? If there was something they would of found it by now .Sleazy is just up to some serious bull shit .
I am pretty sure in this 3 weeks they tried to dig a dirt on Cory1111 and they couldn't find shit . I will not be surprised if they know what he had for breakfast.

Believe me you don't need 3 week to check the software if it had a glitch .

GL.

[acarmelo1]

Looks like sleazystreet changed their mind on what grounds they don't wanna pay

Remember First it was all about "Robots" (damn those robots ) .
Now 3 weeks later LOL . They figure they can use an excuse that player hit too many Royals . Ok whats next ? If there was something they would of found it by now .Sleazy is just up to some serious bull shit .
I am pretty sure in this 3 weeks they tried to dig a dirt on Cory1111 and they couldn't find shit . I will not be surprised if they know what he had for breakfast.

Believe me you don't need 3 week to check the software if it had a glitch .

GL.

Robots

[pokerplayer22]

Pokerplayer22, I think you're actually reducing the OP's chances of getting paid easily. If you turn this thread into nothing but your own personal grudge thread against Alex Powers, that doesn't help the OP, who may or may not be a scam artist (in ways that don't relate to the exact facts here). Plus Sharpcat's posts suggest you have little reason to hold a grudge as you tricked two CS reps and tried to screw the book. So neither you nor the OP has clean hands here. Let it go, at least long enough for SBR and EZ to work together for a while longer.

Not trying to ruin his chances of getting paid at all...In fact its the opposite. Im not the one that brings up my past. This thread isnt about me. Its about the possibilty that Powers may be stiffing yet another player...and this time for 46k. Should we get the resolution that the player is in fact getting paid, you will not hear another word from me on this topic and i'll take my hat off to EZ for acting like any reputable book would.

[vitalyo]

Per hand, the odds are quite remote from what I read. Getting dealt a RF is over 2.5 mil to 1. Drawing into one is over 40,000 to 1.

HedgeHog with all do respect . Software provider already informed them on what is possible and what is not .

GL.

[HedgeHog]

HedgeHog with all do respect . Software provider already informed them on what is possible and what is not .

GL.

Agreed. I was just stating a fact for someone that asked. I realize that from the vast number of hands Cory1111 played this is a possible scenario (approx 1 in 500 according to Justin).

[WVU]

As many of you know, I have extensive experience with bot play and specifically video poker bot play. I have hit over 120 royals online, with at least 90% of those while using a bot. If EasyStreet wants to contend that they are confiscating all his funds because he used a bot then they should at least offer proof. There are several ways that they can prove this, but nothing that I am willing to discuss on an open forum.

To prove bot play, you must show proof that no human can play as fast and as accurate as what has been logged during the session. If I was to have the player's play logs then I can run it through tests to determine actual speed and accuracy. If the guy was making perfect decisions including those based on penalty cards throughout his session and was indeed playing nearly 1000 hands per hour then we could all safely conclude that a bot was used. Whether to confiscate all the guy's money or just penalize him a percentage as suggested by SBR John should be decided upon by an impartial panel following the conclusion of the actual play log scrutiny.

If I can help in any way, just let me know.

[sharpcat]

Not trying to ruin his chances of getting paid at all...In fact its the opposite. Im not the one that brings up my past. This thread isnt about me. Its about the possibilty that Powers may be stiffing yet another player...and this time for 46k. Should we get the resolution that the player is in fact getting paid, you will not hear another word from me on this topic and i'll take my hat off to EZ for acting like any reputable book would.

Important parts of this post were highlighted!! it is important that we not jump to conclusions here and since the case (as Justin7 clarified for you earlier) is still open as of now nobody has stiffed any body it is still under review.

[sharpcat]

As many of you know, I have extensive experience with bot play and specifically video poker bot play. I have hit over 120 royals online, with at least 90% of those while using a bot. If EasyStreet wants to contend that they are confiscating all his funds because he used a bot then they should at least offer proof. There are several ways that they can prove this, but nothing that I am willing to discuss on an open forum.

To prove bot play, you must show proof that no human can play as fast and as accurate as what has been logged during the session. If I was to have the player's play logs then I can run it through tests to determine actual speed and accuracy. If the guy was making perfect decisions including those based on penalty cards throughout his session and was indeed playing nearly 1000 hands per hour then we could all safely conclude that a bot was used. Whether to confiscate all the guy's money or just penalize him a percentage as suggested by SBR John should be decided upon by an impartial panel following the conclusion of the actual play log scrutiny.

If I can help in any way, just let me know.

I am not sure what kind of casino promotion is offered from EZ but if they are offering a promo that bot use would allow the player a +EV advantage than they have every right to rule that bot play is not allowed. I do not think this is about him hitting the royals I think it is about him using a bot paired with a generous bonus to gain an edge when house rules suggest that bot usage is not allowed.

Obviously the first time $10,000 deposit suggest that the player likely saw a +EV opportunity and if you used a bot to exploit it when the rules state that this is not allowed than he would have violated their bot rule and would also have violated any rules they have against bonus abuse.

Let me add that I am in no way supporting a book stiffing a player, but I will not support players who are out to cheat books. I think the angry mob needs to settle down and not jump to conclusions until we hear all of the facts of the case many times this forum has sided with a player who turned out to be a cheat.

[pokerplayer22]

Agreed that if a bot is used to give the player an advantage over the house, then thats a different story. But if a bot is used simply to speed up play, get through the rollover, and play perfect strategy, then the house still has the edge in the long run and has no right to stiff the player. In my opinion, EZ would have to prove that this "bot" actually used strategy when playing or somehow manipulated the cards, thus moving the edge from the house to the player. Im not a tech guy so Im not even sure if thats possible

[cc440unn]

I see 8-10 teamers hit on a weekly basis. Didn't realize the Royal odds were so low, if that's the case doesn't seem nearly as strange.

whichc sports dude....because i dont see alot of sports where you can hit 10 team parley every week

[sharpcat]

Agreed that if a bot is used to give the player an advantage over the house, then thats a different story. But if a bot is used simply to speed up play, get through the rollover, and play perfect strategy, then the house still has the edge in the long run and has no right to stiff the player. In my opinion, EZ would have to prove that this "bot" actually used strategy when playing or somehow manipulated the cards, thus moving the edge from the house to the player. Im not a tech guy so Im not even sure if thats possible

Yes, but what you have to realize is that when paired with a generous bonus a player can gain an edge over the house or even just move the game to fair odds allowing him with proper money management to sit back and play for free until picking up a big score.

Trust me nobody would waste time or money to develop a bot that will sit back and gradually lose money for them they are used to take advantage of casino bonuses that push the odds in their favor over thousands of hands. The edge gained from a bonus is small compared to the number of hands that would need to be played to profit which is why a bot is used.

If the casino offers a bonus to players than they have a right to say that you must actually play the hands yourself with a chance of human error and not have an error free program do it for you while you are down at Billy Bobs eating chicken wings.

[C.S.]

whichc sports dude....because i dont see alot of sports where you can hit 10 team parley every week

When I look over payouts for the day, I work in a book.

[pokerplayer22]

Yes, but what you have to realize is that when paired with a generous bonus a player can gain an edge over the house or even just move the game to fair odds allowing him with proper money management to sit back and play for free until picking up a big score.

Trust me nobody would waste time or money to develop a bot that will sit back and gradually lose money for them they are used to take advantage of casino bonuses that push the odds in their favor over thousands of hands. The edge gained from a bonus is small compared to the number of hands that would need to be played to profit which is why a bot is used.

If the casino offers a bonus to players than they have a right to say that you must actually play the hands yourself with a chance of human error and not have an error free program do it for you while you are down at Billy Bobs eating chicken wings.

But their website talks about artificial intelliegence. Is AI different than a bot that just plays by the book and uses no intelligence?

[sharpcat]

But their website talks about artificial intelliegence. Is AI different than a bot that just plays by the book and uses no intelligence?

If he used a bot I think this would be the technicality that it would come down to.

What is "Artificial Intelligence" is it a Will Smith movie where robots think for themselves and control their own decisions? or is it a program that is set to quickly make the perfect decision on every hand unlike a human who is prone to making an error?

My understanding of programming languages is that written in the code there will be "IF" statements which tell the computer "IF" this "DO" that, which my understanding is that the computer is making a decision which requires intelligence that would be artificial as a human is not processing the info and making the decision.

[pokerplayer22]

If he used a bot I think this would be the technicality that it would come down to.

What is "Artificial Intelligence" is it a Will Smith movie where robots think for themselves and control their own decisions? or is it a program that is set to quickly make the perfect decision on every hand unlike a human who is prone to making an error?

My understanding of programming languages is that written in the code there will be "IF" statements which tell the computer "IF" this "DO" that, which my understanding is that the computer is making a decision which requires intelligence that would be artificial as a human is not processing the info and making the decision.

I think that if this is the type of bot that the player used, then the book needs to pay. Its like developing a bot for blackjack. If 16 against 8, then hit. If 12 against 6, then stand, if 11 against 5 the double, etc. The house still has the edge no matter what the bot is programmed to do, and if the end result is more hands being played, then it only favors the house in the long run. Like in any form of gambling, once in a while, the player will get lucky

[acarmelo1]

If he used a bot I think this would be the technicality that it would come down to.

What is "Artificial Intelligence" is it a Will Smith movie where robots think for themselves and control their own decisions? or is it a program that is set to quickly make the perfect decision on every hand unlike a human who is prone to making an error?

My understanding of programming languages is that written in the code there will be "IF" statements which tell the computer "IF" this "DO" that, which my understanding is that the computer is making a decision which requires intelligence that would be artificial as a human is not processing the info and making the decision.

But that is not aritifical intelligence, that is just a program following commands set up by a Human.

AI is when a machine learns something on its own for example. A Robot car that hits itself with a wall, on his next attempt it will turn and avoid the wall.

[pokerplayer22]

But that is not aritifical intelligence, that is just a program following commands set up by a Human.

AI is when a machine learns something on its own for example. A Robot car that hits itself with a wall, on his next attempt it will turn and avoid the wall.

So am i correct to say that becuase these casino software's use a random number generator for every card dealt, there is no way to use AI to determine that the next card is, or to give the player the edge over the house, etc??

[acarmelo1]

So am i correct to say that becuase these casino software's use a random number generator for every card dealt, there is no way to use AI to determine that the next card is, or to give the player the edge over the house, etc??

If something is truly Random, not even God can predict what it is.

But, these random number generators may be hacked into and if you get the values that it generate, before giving the number out you may predict the outcome.

But, we are not saying that the OP hacked them. They say he is only using a bot to play for him. The bot could never predict what numbers are gonna come out, he could only act according to what number had already been shown.


For example with black jack.
Delear shows a 6 and you have 17(7K)

Playing Basic strategy that can be programmed the Bot will stay.
But the Bot will never tell you or predict that the card that the dealers is hidding is a 5 and that the next card a J, without hacking into the system itself.

[pokerplayer22]

If something is truly Random, not even God can predict what it is.

But, these random number generators may be hacked into and if you get the values that it generate, before giving the number out you may predict the outcome.

But, we are not saying that the OP hacked them. They say he is only using a bot to play for him. The bot could never predict what numbers are gonna come out, he could only act according to what number had already been shown.


For example with black jack.
Delear shows a 6 and you have 17(7K)

Playing Basic strategy that can be programmed the Bot will stay.
But the Bot will never tell you or predict that the card that the dealers is hidding is a 5 and that the next card a J, without hacking into the system itself.

Thanks for the explanation...For the book to accuse this guy of cheating because he used a bot is completely ridiculous then.

[sharpcat]

So am i correct to say that becuase these casino software's use a random number generator for every card dealt, there is no way to use AI to determine that the next card is, or to give the player the edge over the house, etc??

The software can't learn anything new because there is nothing new for it to learn that does not mean that it is not capable of doing so.

The player here is not gaining an edge through the bot he is "maximizing" his edge by playing a high volume of hands that would not only be time consuming for the player but would also risk human error which could eliminate his edge. 5% casino rebate paired with a generous payout could give the player an edge and the bot can run and earn money while the player goes about his everyday life.

Professionals players bonus whore like this in casinos across the world everyday earning free drinks and buffets and all kinds of other perks that offset their losses (ask Fishead). Do you think the casinos in Vegas would be happy if an advantage gambler like fishead came in and hooked his laptop up to one of their machines and left?

I think it is fair for a casino to say "be happy with the advantage we are giving you, the only thing we ask is that you sit down and actually play yourself and not set a computer to do it for you."

And again I don't think EZ ever accused the guy of cheating, they accused him of violating their rule and using a bot.

[cc440unn]

When I look over payouts for the day, I work in a book.

Ok...you surely see some crazy winner bet sometime

[cc440unn]

The software can't learn anything new because there is nothing new for it to learn that does not mean that it is not capable of doing so.

The player here is not gaining an edge through the bot he is "maximizing" his edge by playing a high volume of hands that would not only be time consuming for the player but would also risk human error which could eliminate his edge. 5% casino rebate paired with a generous payout could give the player an edge and the bot can run and earn money while the player goes about his everyday life.

Professionals players bonus whore like this in casinos across the world everyday earning free drinks and buffets and all kinds of other perks that offset their losses (ask Fishead). Do you think the casinos in Vegas would be happy if an advantage gambler like fishead came in and hooked his laptop up to one of their machines and left?

I think it is fair for a casino to say "be happy with the advantage we are giving you, the only thing we ask is that you sit down and actually play yourself and not set a computer to do it for you."

And again I don't think EZ ever accused the guy of cheating, they accused him of violating their rule and using a bot.

What i dont understand is.... same with bonus. you will still looser on the long term in any casino games same if your playing the best possible strategy. you will just loose less faster,

But if a guys is using a bot for go more faster. he will just loose more faster. same if hes using the best strategy...

[cc440unn]

so why dont pay him or because he use a bot....just make him lost more faster...

maybe i dont understand something...

[pokerplayer22]

The software can't learn anything new because there is nothing new for it to learn that does not mean that it is not capable of doing so.

The player here is not gaining an edge through the bot he is "maximizing" his edge by playing a high volume of hands that would not only be time consuming for the player but would also risk human error which could eliminate his edge. 5% casino rebate paired with a generous payout could give the player an edge and the bot can run and earn money while the player goes about his everyday life.

Professionals players bonus whore like this in casinos across the world everyday earning free drinks and buffets and all kinds of other perks that offset their losses (ask Fishead). Do you think the casinos in Vegas would be happy if an advantage gambler like fishead came in and hooked his laptop up to one of their machines and left?

I think it is fair for a casino to say "be happy with the advantage we are giving you, the only thing we ask is that you sit down and actually play yourself and not set a computer to do it for you."

And again I don't think EZ ever accused the guy of cheating, they accused him of violating their rule and using a bot.

[COLOR=#000000! important]"EZ Street is not out to cheat any player no matter the size of their winnings, however we do not wish to be cheated either."[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000! important][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#000000! important]Thats what Marvin posted and although not 100%, it kind of indicates that they were calling the player a cheat[/COLOR]

[sharpcat]

What i dont understand is.... same with bonus. you will still looser on the long term in any casino games same if your playing the best possible strategy. you will just loose less faster,

But if a guys is using a bot for go more faster. he will just loose more faster. same if hes using the best strategy...

See this is where you don't understand having an advantage all comes down to your odds of winning compared to the odds you are being paid at. EZ offers a 5% rebate on casino losses and if the offer slightly higher payouts on their videopoker than your average machine does than they no longer have an advantage and may even be at a disadvantage. Most casinos do not mind the sharp action that they receive here because their generous offers draw in more recreational action than professional action because a pro player playing with a small advantage may only be able to generate $10 per hour which is not worth his time. In this case a professional player would locate a +EV scenario and be able to exploit it without investing any time into it other than what was spent developing the software.

Casinos will knowingly offer odds and perks that give a player value to draw in recreational play. I think it is fair for them to request that you actually invest the time to profit from this rather than to develop money printing software to sit there and rape them non stop 24 hours a day.

Basically if the player gains about a 0.25% edge he will theoretically earn about .25 cents on every $100 risked I personally feel it is unfair for a bot to sit and play 15 hands a minute while the player does nothing.

[gman2114]

The EZ rules state no Bots.
If the players has not played with a Bot before he should be not be paid any winnings. (if you use a bot you read the fine print before hand)
If the player played and lost with a Bot before he should get his winnings. (cake and eat it too theory)

[raiders72001]

Those aren't "rumors going around forumville," that's something one person with no credibility (Raiders) claimed.

LOL- $5k says I'm right.

[raiders72001]

Player's a known scammer, FACT............ WVU broke down a scenario on what may have happened.

WVU

full pay jacks or better pays out 99.54% with optimal strategy. Let's assume he got 50% cash bonus with 10 x rollover (I got that at one time).

deposit 10,000
bonus 5,000
total RO 150,000


The EV for this deal would be 5000 - 690 in losses = $4310


If his rollover was 20 x then his EV would be 5000 - 1380 in losses = $3620



That is motivation to do this deal. Enough for me, enough for any seasoned bonus player to risk his 10k deposit at a "C" shop.

[nyplayer33]

An offical statement from the book will be announced on the forums in 24 hrs..according to the book in queston

[robertg]

An offical statement from the book will be announced on the forums in 24 hrs..according to the book in queston

boy they've drug this out! no matter the decision, i don't know how anyone could feel good playing there now.

[FourLengthsClear]

Most of the top Euro casinos give an autoplay option which uses e.g. basic strategy in blackjack and optimal strategy in video poker to speed up gameplay. These do exactly what the software this book accuses the player of using.

If the player has a history of scammimng then I don't have any sympathy but that in itself would not excuse the books' actions.