Betmaker Review - In progress

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  • todd73nj
    SBR Wise Guy
    • 08-09-08
    • 824

    #421
    The more I look at the math behind the claims of all these Matchbook players who claim to make thousands weekly (total - not just at Matchbook, I understand this) - the more it makes no sense at all.

    Indulge me please..

    Lets assume that "thousands" to be $2,000 a week. The first plural thousand.

    1) If you are betting and winning at a clip that allows you to make $2,000 a week - you are so good that you could bet at ANY book that pays you and your money is safe and wont cut you off. So that obviously isnt the point here.

    2) The other option is scalping/arbing. Assuming the average scalp to be a 4% total profit potential. (And that is very generous - And I do have experience with this as on the website I operate, we have an arb finder program that constantly posts up current odds - and Most are between 1 and 5%). So if we are dealing with E/+104. You will make 2% on either side. Thus meaning you would need to wager $200,000 a week, $100k total on winning sides, 100k on losing side (+/-) Adjustments.

    I see alot of problems with this.

    1) How many arbs are available per day where you can get good money down? 3? 4? - 20 for the week?

    2) You will need to get $5,000 to $10,000 down per side, per game to make this kind of money. The problems here are: What books will allow you to make those kind of wagers? Im interested to know. 5 dimes wont, Bet Jamaica wont, SIA, BetEd, etc.. all no. Bet US, nope. So as you eliminate books that take this kind of action - that limits your arb opportunities. And the fact that everyone is upset about Matchbook means they are US players and cant use the Euro outlets that dont allow us. If so many people are hitting this same arb for the money necessary to make thousands a week, and the margin is so small, the lines are going to move.

    5) The timing of getting these huge plays in is absurd. What if you find them - then by the time you get the other in - the original has changed? If 100 guys on this site are making thousands a week - the amount being wagered on each side is crazy. And its all about getting there first.

    4) Money movement - Because it wont be perfect - you cant put 20k into one book, lose a 10k wager, then win a 10k wager, then lose a 10k wager. You will zero accounts, and end up with huge sums in other accounts. This will not now allow you to wager at the accounts that you lost in. Thus, you will now have to withdraw. Assuming you lost 20k from one account and it ended up in another, you now have to roll your winnings over to be able to use book to book (or pay a fee which would eat away at the profits). You can roll over safely because you are arbing - but again its not an exact science knowing which side would win. So you would need another extreme amount of money sitting it your bank account - so you can fund the accounts that goto zero. So how do you make these 20k (or more) withdrawals? Check? Wire? That wouldnt set off any bells. How do you make these deposits? Go to 30 different Money Gram locations and send $700 each to Lucia Suarez Navarro and her 29 family members? Send a few 10k or 20k international wires a week? The P2P money transfer is not feasible. The wire would take 3-4 days, this eliminating that book from arb opportunities, and the B2B would require at least another bet or two to roll over the money!


    Seems to me like you would need a bankroll of about $500,000. To keep all your accounts funded, and then free cash to refund the ones you lose at while you are waiting to fund them again.

    1) Would you be willing to risk that kind of capital at offshore outlets that can go from A+ books to not paying in a matter or a few months? (See WSEX)

    2) The money movement of $20k, 50k a week thru your US accounts would set off bells.

    3) Couldnt you find something much better to do with your 500k? I know I certainly could.

    If someone said they were making $200 a week doing this - very believable. Because you could put $5k in each account, and not zero them quickly.

    Im certainly not one.. But to all you millionaires.. congrats.
    Comment
    • Hareeba!
      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
      • 07-01-06
      • 37194

      #422
      Thank God I can still play at Matchbook!

      Looking to bet on Colorado/Arizona <9.5 BM has the grand sum of $190 on offer at -113
      MB $3264 @ -110

      and just look at all those suspended markets cluttering things up and the pathetic matched amounts on them:
      4246, 884, 4358,4783,662,495,962
      and not one of the open totals markets has had $1,000 matched as yet!

      but Todd will tell you that BM is "better in every way"
      Comment
      • ktorp18
        SBR High Roller
        • 04-09-08
        • 100

        #423
        I would definitely take Matchbook over Betmaker if I could, bt BetMaker is the only option for Americans right now. Honestly, I'm surprised their liquidity has not picked up since Matchbook closed its doors to Americans. Perhaps they will be able to pick up the pace when baseball is the only major sports going. I think it will help get more money on each game since there will be less games to bet on. This will help attract more people who will bet on other sports because they will see the raised liquidity.
        Comment
        • todd73nj
          SBR Wise Guy
          • 08-09-08
          • 824

          #424
          Originally posted by Hareeba!
          Thank God I can still play at Matchbook!

          Looking to bet on Colorado/Arizona <9.5 BM has the grand sum of $190 on offer at -113
          MB $3264 @ -110

          and just look at all those suspended markets cluttering things up and the pathetic matched amounts on them:
          4246, 884, 4358,4783,662,495,962
          and not one of the open totals markets has had $1,000 matched as yet!

          but Todd will tell you that BM is "better in every way"
          Originally posted by ktorp18
          I would definitely take Matchbook over Betmaker if I could, bt BetMaker is the only option for Americans right now. Honestly, I'm surprised their liquidity has not picked up since Matchbook closed its doors to Americans. Perhaps they will be able to pick up the pace when baseball is the only major sports going. I think it will help get more money on each game since there will be less games to bet on. This will help attract more people who will bet on other sports because they will see the raised liquidity.

          Hareeba picks one game, and Ktorp throws out a blanket statment.

          Betmaker crushed MB for NBA last night.

          And is better in the majority of better lines on all MLB. I put up screen shots everytime I say this, but people continue to not bother with the facts.

          Where is MBs matched bets? lol
          And if they did post, I bet they would post both sides.

          Poor Hareeba, the only one playing at MB!
          Comment
          • Fishhead
            SBR Aristocracy
            • 08-11-05
            • 40179

            #425
            Originally posted by ktorp18
            I would definitely take Matchbook over Betmaker if I could, bt BetMaker is the only option for Americans right now. Honestly, I'm surprised their liquidity has not picked up since Matchbook closed its doors to Americans. Perhaps they will be able to pick up the pace when baseball is the only major sports going. I think it will help get more money on each game since there will be less games to bet on. This will help attract more people who will bet on other sports because they will see the raised liquidity.

            deposit issues
            Comment
            • todd73nj
              SBR Wise Guy
              • 08-09-08
              • 824

              #426
              Originally posted by Fishhead


              deposit issues
              But in the last 6 months of MB, deposit and withdrawals were becoming an issue anyway - but people had balances. MB eliminated all of its good deposit methods.
              Comment
              • KGambler
                SBR MVP
                • 07-09-09
                • 2404

                #427
                Originally posted by tofuman
                yes sort of: i don't even have an account at bookmaker, but just tell your other bookie to send it to your betmaker account (but call it bookmaker in the email), then email betmaker and they will process for you. (you don't need to email bookmaker at all)

                did that make sense?
                yes, that makes sense. thank you.
                Comment
                • evo34
                  SBR MVP
                  • 11-09-08
                  • 1032

                  #428
                  Why has Betmaker stopped posting MLB games overnight?
                  Comment
                  • todd73nj
                    SBR Wise Guy
                    • 08-09-08
                    • 824

                    #429
                    Originally posted by evo34
                    Why has Betmaker stopped posting MLB games overnight?
                    I havent noticed that... I usually see the next days game posted - but honestly I didnt look last night.
                    Comment
                    • tofuman
                      SBR Wise Guy
                      • 01-11-10
                      • 887

                      #430
                      i never noticed that either, maybe it was just that one night
                      local forum troll
                      Comment
                      • todd73nj
                        SBR Wise Guy
                        • 08-09-08
                        • 824

                        #431
                        Originally posted by tofuman
                        i never noticed that either, maybe it was just that one night
                        I guess they just dropped the ball that night, because Ive seen them posted recently.

                        MLB liquidity has been decent. COuld still be better.. but def cant complain.

                        Golf has bee great. (Although.. I may be one of the only people who bets golf lol)
                        Comment
                        • tofuman
                          SBR Wise Guy
                          • 01-11-10
                          • 887

                          #432
                          Originally posted by todd73nj
                          I guess they just dropped the ball that night, because Ive seen them posted recently.

                          MLB liquidity has been decent. COuld still be better.. but def cant complain.

                          Golf has bee great. (Although.. I may be one of the only people who bets golf lol)

                          lol, yeah i never bet on golf
                          local forum troll
                          Comment
                          • todd73nj
                            SBR Wise Guy
                            • 08-09-08
                            • 824

                            #433
                            Originally posted by tofuman


                            lol, yeah i never bet on golf

                            The markets are actually excellent if you take a look.

                            There are always some very good shorting opportunities.

                            Thats one sport where I dont mind shorting at a steep price!
                            Comment
                            • wrongturn
                              SBR MVP
                              • 06-06-06
                              • 2228

                              #434
                              It would be nice if they can highlight the markets that I have pending bets on. Todd, did you make that suggestion to them?
                              Comment
                              • todd73nj
                                SBR Wise Guy
                                • 08-09-08
                                • 824

                                #435
                                Originally posted by wrongturn
                                It would be nice if they can highlight the markets that I have pending bets on. Todd, did you make that suggestion to them?

                                Wrongturn,

                                My conversations with them in the last few weeks have been very limited. I was kind of disappointed in the lack of changes that they made - that they told me they were going to make.

                                Im just sort of taking as it is for right now. I compare their lines to Matchbook daily, and all taken into consideration, the value is clearly better at Betmaker. (Not saying that if Matchbook had kept US Players that Matchbook would have been the same as it is at this moment) It seems that a good portion of the US players have moved there.

                                I spent alot of time going back and forth with Betmaker Management.. and really dont think I got the results I desired.

                                I had asked about that "portfolio" page, or "my bets page" or whatever you want to call it. They loved the idea! LOVED IT! Its 70 days later.. nothing.

                                Can I deposit? Am I getting paid? Better value than MB or any other book right now? Yes. Yes. and Yes. So they keep my business - sort of my default.

                                I am still waiting desperately for live in game betting.
                                Comment
                                • wrongturn
                                  SBR MVP
                                  • 06-06-06
                                  • 2228

                                  #436
                                  Yes, living in game betting would be great. Why don't they do it already? They have nothing to lose but more commission to gain.
                                  Comment
                                  • unclebuzz1
                                    SBR Wise Guy
                                    • 08-23-09
                                    • 565

                                    #437
                                    We ALL want live in-game betting! There's just not enough action between individuals. It takes a two-way market-maker (with backing) to make it work. No one's willing to take the chance. WSEX used to back MB but that dried up a few years ago.
                                    Comment
                                    • tofuman
                                      SBR Wise Guy
                                      • 01-11-10
                                      • 887

                                      #438
                                      still better vig than most books so u take what u can get
                                      local forum troll
                                      Comment
                                      • ArunSh
                                        SBR Hall of Famer
                                        • 09-24-07
                                        • 6801

                                        #439
                                        Yes, they have much better lines than any other place at this moment. Wish I could have them + Matchbook, but take what you can get!
                                        Comment
                                        • todd73nj
                                          SBR Wise Guy
                                          • 08-09-08
                                          • 824

                                          #440
                                          Originally posted by wrongturn
                                          Yes, living in game betting would be great. Why don't they do it already? They have nothing to lose but more commission to gain.
                                          Originally posted by unclebuzz1
                                          We ALL want live in-game betting! There's just not enough action between individuals. It takes a two-way market-maker (with backing) to make it work. No one's willing to take the chance. WSEX used to back MB but that dried up a few years ago.

                                          And a more friendly platform. Hence the reason MB in game betting never held a candle to Tradesports.
                                          Comment
                                          • todd73nj
                                            SBR Wise Guy
                                            • 08-09-08
                                            • 824

                                            #441
                                            Originally posted by ArunSh
                                            Yes, they have much better lines than any other place at this moment. Wish I could have them + Matchbook, but take what you can get!

                                            But if MB was still accessible to US players - Betmaker would be a ghost town like it was.

                                            Thats the funny part about people claiming MB still has the same or better liquidity. It cant - because all of this liquidity on Betmaker is from old MB players!
                                            Comment
                                            • Igetp2s
                                              SBR MVP
                                              • 05-21-07
                                              • 1046

                                              #442
                                              Originally posted by todd73nj
                                              And a more friendly platform. Hence the reason MB in game betting never held a candle to Tradesports.
                                              U checked out Tradesports many times over the last few years of it's existence. There was no volume at all. None. Their commission structure was a joke. I don't know what years you are referring to, but Tradesports was never very popular.
                                              Comment
                                              • todd73nj
                                                SBR Wise Guy
                                                • 08-09-08
                                                • 824

                                                #443
                                                Originally posted by Igetp2s

                                                U checked out Tradesports many times over the last few years of it's existence. There was no volume at all. None. Their commission structure was a joke. I don't know what years you are referring to, but Tradesports was never very popular.

                                                Are you kidding? They had a market maker who would have 200 x 200 up for every live event.

                                                Was much more volume than MB at its peak for non featured games.

                                                And featured - MB hasnt had a market in years.
                                                Comment
                                                • tofuman
                                                  SBR Wise Guy
                                                  • 01-11-10
                                                  • 887

                                                  #444
                                                  betmaker needs more ex-matchbookers to join
                                                  local forum troll
                                                  Comment
                                                  • todd73nj
                                                    SBR Wise Guy
                                                    • 08-09-08
                                                    • 824

                                                    #445
                                                    Originally posted by tofuman
                                                    betmaker needs more ex-matchbookers to join

                                                    So many issues preventing them though..

                                                    Changes not being made to improve Betmaker
                                                    People still not being paid by MB (Im one of those)
                                                    Difficulty to deposit anywhere right now (Did you notice SIA is now not accepting any new US Players)

                                                    But I agree with you.

                                                    Betmaker got many of them as the liquidity is excellent. But more would be great!
                                                    Comment
                                                    • maxvalue1
                                                      SBR Sharp
                                                      • 11-08-10
                                                      • 350

                                                      #446
                                                      This ex MB will be pulling the trigger soon...
                                                      Comment
                                                      • todd73nj
                                                        SBR Wise Guy
                                                        • 08-09-08
                                                        • 824

                                                        #447
                                                        Originally posted by maxvalue1
                                                        This ex MB will be pulling the trigger soon...
                                                        Good to hear. Did you just get your MB money? Or just waited it out till the waters calmed?
                                                        Comment
                                                        • ArunSh
                                                          SBR Hall of Famer
                                                          • 09-24-07
                                                          • 6801

                                                          #448
                                                          Yes, liquidity isn't bad, but definitely could be better - especially near game time...
                                                          Comment
                                                          • Legions36
                                                            SBR MVP
                                                            • 12-17-10
                                                            • 3032

                                                            #449
                                                            So liquidy is good right now??
                                                            Comment
                                                            • Kooko4kookopuffs
                                                              SBR Rookie
                                                              • 05-07-11
                                                              • 11

                                                              #450
                                                              Liquidity has been fairly good. Nice lines that tend to favor dog betters.
                                                              Comment
                                                              • Kooko4kookopuffs
                                                                SBR Rookie
                                                                • 05-07-11
                                                                • 11

                                                                #451
                                                                Deposit options blow.

                                                                Interbook transfer from bookmaker or **/**. Fees for **/** are not covered or given back as commission credits. Debit ards are not accepted. Boo!
                                                                Comment
                                                                • maxvalue1
                                                                  SBR Sharp
                                                                  • 11-08-10
                                                                  • 350

                                                                  #452
                                                                  My matchbook account was empty when they stopped taking US customers.
                                                                  I like betting exchanges and want to help out in the liquidity
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • wrongturn
                                                                    SBR MVP
                                                                    • 06-06-06
                                                                    • 2228

                                                                    #453
                                                                    The liquidity on MLB and NBA have greatly improved, close to matchbook used to be. But interface is bad, and no half-time, no in-game betting.
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • Johnnythunder
                                                                      SBR MVP
                                                                      • 11-25-10
                                                                      • 2161

                                                                      #454
                                                                      Havent looked at this thread in a while...whats improved at Betmaker in the last 6 weeks?
                                                                      Comment
                                                                      • todd73nj
                                                                        SBR Wise Guy
                                                                        • 08-09-08
                                                                        • 824

                                                                        #455
                                                                        Originally posted by Legions36
                                                                        So liquidy is good right now??
                                                                        Originally posted by Kooko4kookopuffs
                                                                        Liquidity has been fairly good. Nice lines that tend to favor dog betters.
                                                                        Originally posted by wrongturn
                                                                        The liquidity on MLB and NBA have greatly improved, close to matchbook used to be. But interface is bad, and no half-time, no in-game betting.
                                                                        Liquidity at Betmaker right now is better than MB for the last year imo. Is it better than MB 2 years ago? Def not. But we are going in the right direction.

                                                                        Originally posted by Kooko4kookopuffs
                                                                        Deposit options blow.

                                                                        Interbook transfer from bookmaker or **/**. Fees for **/** are not covered or given back as commission credits. Debit ards are not accepted. Boo!
                                                                        wire is available.

                                                                        But honestly - what did Matchbook have available?

                                                                        And how about an A Rated book like 5 dimes? How the **** do you get money into 5 dimes now?

                                                                        Originally posted by maxvalue1
                                                                        My matchbook account was empty when they stopped taking US customers.
                                                                        I like betting exchanges and want to help out in the liquidity
                                                                        Look forward to your liquidity being added!


                                                                        Originally posted by Johnnythunder
                                                                        Havent looked at this thread in a while...whats improved at Betmaker in the last 6 weeks?
                                                                        Liquidity def on the rise... and ..

                                                                        Umm...

                                                                        They updated the commission page?
                                                                        Comment
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