Why do people avoid the $10,000 number when making withdraws?

**dynamite140** · 01-01-11, 10:53 PM

Why do people avoid the $10,000 number when making withdraws?

I'm down about $12000 lifetime in sports betting so it doesn't affect me because i'm loser at this game. But i'm curious about the people who do win at it.

I always hear people say that if you make a deposit or withdraw, always keep it below for $10,000. Some people mention this is for tax reasons. I know if you do a $10,000 transaction, you have to file a CRT. But some people mention that its only for cash deposits and not check or bank wires etc...

The majority of people lose in gambling but to those small percent that do win, is that the reason why they don't take withdraws for over $10,000 because the majority of people don't pay taxes on gambling winnings? I even hear some people respond to those threads such as of course they don't pay taxes on gambling and lot of people laugh at it. I know the government loses a lot of money because the majority of people who gamble don't pay taxes as said in the news and in that movie Two For the Money.

I read that the chance of getting audited is 1 percent or even less. Well what i don't get is why is anyone taking this chance? I mean i know people don't want to give money to the government since there isn't a W2 form or what not but isn't that a big risk since i heard tons of people get fined and go to jail for it? I know if you win very small, you don't even need to file if its not a certain amount. I think that was $5450 i heard. Well i know guys like Fishhead who is a pro and i think he said he makes $100K at least a year, would obviously have to pay taxes on it.

Are there people who don't have any job besides gambling going to be caught no matter what as oppose to someone who has a job and gambles recreationally and have money deposited into their bank account? I see many people mention that since they have a job and have money coming into their bank account from their job, then checks or money coming from their sportsbetting accounts won't get noticed as someone who has no job besides gambling. Is this true?

But if you pay taxes on it, doesn't it not matter how much you deposit or withdraw at once and you wouldn't care about a 10k transaction? Assuming you pay taxes on it, someone can just request the whole $15000 instead of $3000 every time right? I think its very risky if someone did this but I assume most people don't pay taxes. Because i see so many people who say they make a withdraw and very few people say they withdraw more than 10K at a time and i would just assume they do this because they don't want the government to know?

**THE PROFIT** · 01-01-11, 11:06 PM

I didnt take time to read your 5 paragraph question, but over $10,000 is a major hassle with the bank, government, etc...

**marcoloco** · 01-01-11, 11:06 PM

over 10k is reported to the irs

**Hareeba!** · 01-01-11, 11:07 PM

many would be trying to avoid taxes but even those who are clean on the tax front might like to fly under the radar too to avoid the hassle of questions, forms or whatever from banks and government agencies

as to the <1% chance of being audited ... take that with a grain of salt ... 1% per annum. per lifetime or what?

play the game for 30 years at 1% p.a. and you are running a fair risk eh?

**pavyracer** · 01-01-11, 11:08 PM

Because it is illegal to bring into the US more than $10,000 from overseas.

**Hareeba!** · 01-01-11, 11:17 PM

even if one is totally clean with the tax authorities, most prefer to fly under the radar and avoid hassles with forms and questions from banks and government agencies

**Hareeba!** · 01-01-11, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by pavyracer

Because it is illegal to bring into the US more than $10,000 from overseas.

I can't believe that.

I expect you'd be required to declare CASH you are bringing into or taking out of the country but I don't believe it would be illegal to bring in any amount by cheque or other traceable form.

**EmpireMaker** · 01-01-11, 11:23 PM

because they don't want you and the other IRS agents to hassle them

**pavyracer** · 01-01-11, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

I can't believe that.

I expect you'd be required to declare CASH you are bringing into or taking out of the country but I don't believe it would be illegal to bring in any amount by cheque or other traceable form.

Try to explain to Customs and US Treasury on the forms you have to declare and file if you are not working overseas and brought more than $10,000 with you. You can't say I went to CR to pick up my gambling winnings and came back.

**Justin7** · 01-01-11, 11:45 PM

Another thought about bankwires. $10,000 is one of the most common bankwire amounts. I would never send this exact amount. If something goes wrong, it's easier to track it down if you have a unique amount. $10,012 is much easier to find than having banks sort through all the 10k bankwires.

**Monte** · 01-01-11, 11:52 PM

Originally posted by dynamite140

I'm down about $12000 lifetime in sports betting so it doesn't affect me because i'm loser at this game.

...and i have a wild theory why: you spend too much time on forums, asking stuff that is just too obvious.
10k is 5 figures, if nothing else that is a mind game. Come on, you knew that answer right?

**Hareeba!** · 01-02-11, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by pavyracer

Try to explain to Customs and US Treasury on the forms you have to declare and file if you are not working overseas and brought more than $10,000 with you. You can't say I went to CR to pick up my gambling winnings and came back.

CA$H is what you need to declare

**pavyracer** · 01-02-11, 12:34 AM

So you are going to CR and pick up a $50,000 check or Money Order from a book and come to the US to cash it? Or are you going to tell the book to give you a gold bar worthing $50,000 to carry with you on your luggage?

**Hareeba!** · 01-02-11, 01:48 AM

Originally posted by pavyracer

So you are going to CR and pick up a $50,000 check or Money Order from a book and come to the US to cash it? Or are you going to tell the book to give you a gold bar worthing $50,000 to carry with you on your luggage?

Why would I need to go to CR or any place else to pick it up rather than get the money sent to me?

I am merely attempting to clarify the accuracy of your statement that nobody is allowed to take more than $10,000 into the US. I don't believe it. If I want to travel to the US with my family for a lavish two month holiday am I allowed to take only $10,000 to spend in the Land of the Free?

I suspect that, as in most countries, one is required to declare any significant amounts of CASH they are carrying on departure or arrival.

**msdw1** · 01-02-11, 02:43 AM

The $10k rule applies to cash deposits at a bank only. The govt does not investigate every $10k+ bank transaction. They simply don't have the resources. A $10k check may seem large to some but it is a routine transaction for a lot of people.

**sq764** · 01-02-11, 03:09 AM

Originally posted by dynamite140

I'm down about $12000 lifetime in sports betting so it doesn't affect me because i'm loser at this game. But i'm curious about the people who do win at it.

I always hear people say that if you make a deposit or withdraw, always keep it below for $10,000. Some people mention this is for tax reasons. I know if you do a $10,000 transaction, you have to file a CRT. But some people mention that its only for cash deposits and not check or bank wires etc...

The majority of people lose in gambling but to those small percent that do win, is that the reason why they don't take withdraws for over $10,000 because the majority of people don't pay taxes on gambling winnings? I even hear some people respond to those threads such as of course they don't pay taxes on gambling and lot of people laugh at it. I know the government loses a lot of money because the majority of people who gamble don't pay taxes as said in the news and in that movie Two For the Money.

I read that the chance of getting audited is 1 percent or even less. Well what i don't get is why is anyone taking this chance? I mean i know people don't want to give money to the government since there isn't a W2 form or what not but isn't that a big risk since i heard tons of people get fined and go to jail for it? I know if you win very small, you don't even need to file if its not a certain amount. I think that was $5450 i heard. Well i know guys like Fishhead who is a pro and i think he said he makes $100K at least a year, would obviously have to pay taxes on it.

Are there people who don't have any job besides gambling going to be caught no matter what as oppose to someone who has a job and gambles recreationally and have money deposited into their bank account? I see many people mention that since they have a job and have money coming into their bank account from their job, then checks or money coming from their sportsbetting accounts won't get noticed as someone who has no job besides gambling. Is this true?

But if you pay taxes on it, doesn't it not matter how much you deposit or withdraw at once and you wouldn't care about a 10k transaction? Assuming you pay taxes on it, someone can just request the whole $15000 instead of $3000 every time right? I think its very risky if someone did this but I assume most people don't pay taxes. Because i see so many people who say they make a withdraw and very few people say they withdraw more than 10K at a time and i would just assume they do this because they don't want the government to know?

are you serious with this?

**Legions36** · 01-02-11, 12:54 PM

Well the reason people do it so they dont have to pay the rediculous taxes that the gov. has in place. Which makes sense they want you to give them your hard earned money that most people dont even win in this game, come on i think its just greed. First off its you who have to go through the ups and downs, and you who decide to wager everything on a game maybe then you deal with the pain and aggony of the game might lose your done, and they want your money for taxes i think thats hilarious. Thats why people dont withdraw more than 10k so they don't need to deal with this garbage. But i do have to say hello everyone they are trying to pass laws so they can really get there hands in all of this, review all the laws and stuff, they even think there doing us a favor by making poker legal here hahaha only to get there hands on our money, telling everyone to legalize poker and make us feel better that we have to pay tax on poker. Well what i get from all of this is after everything is said and done poker will be taxes here and im not sure if it will pass on sports but that will be taxed.
All in all if you pay taxes they wont even look your way.

**pavyracer** · 01-02-11, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

Why would I need to go to CR or any place else to pick it up rather than get the money sent to me?

I am merely attempting to clarify the accuracy of your statement that nobody is allowed to take more than $10,000 into the US. I don't believe it. If I want to travel to the US with my family for a lavish two month holiday am I allowed to take only $10,000 to spend in the Land of the Free?

I suspect that, as in most countries, one is required to declare any significant amounts of CASH they are carrying on departure or arrival.

You need to travel overseas first and find first hand. You can't fly out of the country or come back carrying more than $10,000 cash on you. It's the law.

**Hareeba!** · 01-02-11, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by pavyracer

You need to travel overseas first and find first hand. You can't fly out of the country or come back carrying more than $10,000 cash on you. It's the law.

Ah!
now at last you are conceding that the issue is CASH as I first said

now, do you have a link to this "law"?
I know you'd have to declare the cash but is that an absolute limit you are permitted to carry?

I've just done a bit of Googling and it has confirmed my view that you may carry more than $10K but if you do you need to declare it and be prepared to disclose the source of the money.

**pavyracer** · 01-02-11, 08:28 PM

Lets say you got out of the county with $200,000 which you declared when you come back you have to have $190,000 to declare back else you will be in some big trouble with the IRS and Treasury. The reason you declare it when you leave the country is so that they can compare how much you declare when you come back for money laundering purposes.

**Hareeba!** · 01-02-11, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by pavyracer

Lets say you got out of the county with $200,000 which you declared when you come back you have to have $190,000 to declare back else you will be in some big trouble with the IRS and Treasury. The reason you declare it when you leave the country is so that they can compare how much you declare when you come back for money laundering purposes.

so you now appear to have conceded that you can carry >$10K in cash

you keep changing your scenarios

this latest one is quite absurd ... so now you are saying you can't take $10k out to spend on your overseas trip? !!!

**durito** · 01-02-11, 08:48 PM

pavy go away.

all countries have different laws.

you cannot enter colombia with more than 10k cash whether you declare it or not. amounts higher than that will be seized if discovered.

**dynamite140** · 01-02-11, 10:25 PM

how come this topic went off tangent and talking about other countries now?

**pavyracer** · 01-02-11, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

so you now appear to have conceded that you can carry >$10K in cash

you keep changing your scenarios

this latest one is quite absurd ... so now you are saying you can't take $10k out to spend on your overseas trip? !!!

You have to declare anything above $10,000. Once you declare it to customs the form goes straight to IRS and Treasury. Now if you are smart you wouldn't want to give ammo to IRS to audit you especially if the money was not reported as taxable income on your income taxes. Now if you come back from overseas with much more or much less cash than you left and you have already declared above $10,000 you have just opened a can of worms and shot yourself on the foot at the same time.

**Hareeba!** · 01-02-11, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by pavyracer

You have to declare anything above $10,000. Once you declare it to customs the form goes straight to IRS and Treasury. Now if you are smart you wouldn't want to give ammo to IRS to audit you especially if the money was not reported as taxable income on your income taxes. Now if you come back from overseas with much more or much less cash than you left and you have already declared above $10,000 you have just opened a can of worms and shot yourself on the foot at the same time.

well I'm glad we finally cleared that up
so from it being illegal to carry more than $10K in any form we are now agreed that it is simply a matter of declaration in regards to cash only rather than illegal ... how many posts did it take you to finally come around to what I have said from the very start?

**sharpcat** · 01-03-11, 12:03 AM

Any transaction over $9,999 must be reported the IRS by the banking establishment who processed the transaction.

**Hareeba!** · 01-03-11, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by sharpcat

Any transaction over $9,999 must be reported the IRS by the banking establishment who processed the transaction.

surely that applies only to CASH transactions?

and is it only banks?

I would expect as is the case here that it would be any business, including bookmakers.

and is it the IRS directly or it is another government agency who looks at these and makes information available to tax and law enforcement agencies such as those policing drug and money-laundering?

**Justin7** · 01-03-11, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by sharpcat

Any transaction over $9,999 must be reported the IRS by the banking establishment who processed the transaction.

In cash, yes. What about checks or bankwires? Do you have a cite, stating the checks and bankwires in excess of $10k must be reported?

**sharpcat** · 01-03-11, 12:32 AM

It is my best understanding that any transaction involving cash (cash, check, debit card, money wire, etc.) over $9,999 is automatically red flagged. This does not necessarily mean that it will be reviewed but only that your likelihood of a tax audit is greatly increased. Obviously loans or credit transactions would not be included here but if a US resident is moving 5 figures the IRS wants to aware of it because as they see it money should be taxed every time it exchanges hands and they want their piece.

Most likely other agencies would not pay you any mind unless they were already investigating and looking to build a case against you or if you have been flagged for suspicious activity. It would take a little more than 2 or 3 $10,000 transactions a year to draw any attention to you outside of the IRS.

**Justin7** · 01-03-11, 12:37 AM

Originally posted by sharpcat

It is my best understanding that any transaction involving cash (cash, check, debit card, money wire, etc.) over $9,999 is automatically red flagged.

I don't care what your "understanding" is. I would like a legal cite. I have never heard of an audit on a check or wire. There is law requiring that cash transactions of more than $10k be reported (but not to the IRS).

What is the basis of your understanding?

**yisman** · 01-03-11, 12:56 AM

Originally posted by dynamite140

how come this topic went off tangent and talking about other countries now?

you should be thankful, because the original premise was not very good.

**Hareeba!** · 01-03-11, 01:01 AM

Originally posted by sharpcat

It is my best understanding that any transaction involving cash (cash, check, debit card, money wire, etc.) over $9,999 is automatically red flagged. This does not necessarily mean that it will be reviewed but only that your likelihood of a tax audit is greatly increased. Obviously loans or credit transactions would not be included here but if a US resident is moving 5 figures the IRS wants to aware of it because as they see it money should be taxed every time it exchanges hands and they want their piece.

Most likely other agencies would not pay you any mind unless they were already investigating and looking to build a case against you or if you have been flagged for suspicious activity. It would take a little more than 2 or 3 $10,000 transactions a year to draw any attention to you outside of the IRS.

I can't believe it.
There would be many millions of business transactions >$10K
Everyone buying a house, car, boat, cruise, wedding etc. would be caught up in this.
The purpose of reporting surely is to track significant cash transactions which may be involved in illegality or tax evasion. Other forms of payment and deposit can always be traced.

**sharpcat** · 01-03-11, 01:01 AM

Your the attorney here Justin

I do not know exactly who is notified when a bank files an SAR on a transaction all I know is that they will do it for anything considered suspicious activity.

My only point is if you plan on having $20,000 wired to your bank you had better be paying taxes on your income, if you are than there should be no problem. Nothing is illegal about making a large transaction of money if you are paying taxes on it.

If you need to find a "legal cite" go for it!!! myself I am fully comfortable with my understanding of it at least enough to know that I do not care to draw any unnecessary attention to myself.

**sharpcat** · 01-03-11, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

I can't believe it.
There would be many millions of business transactions >$10K
Everyone buying a house, car, boat, cruise, wedding etc. would be caught up in this.
The purpose of reporting surely is to track significant cash transactions which may be involved in illegality or tax evasion. Other forms of payment and deposit can always be traced.

Obviously since buying houses, boats, and cars usually involves a financing company these matters are not going to be considered suspicious 99.9% of the time.

You guys are really making more of this than it needs to be.