1. #1
    RobertAnthonyT7
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    Bookmaker follows rules...

    So, I'm bored and I try messing around with PrimeTime Action sports simulation BS. Long story short, I take the Reds. They are up 1-0, bases loaded, bottom 1, no outs. The game freezes. The Prime Time guy frantically tries to fix it, he can't. So what do they do- restart the game. Everything wiped out. I know BM covered themselves with BS rules, however they accept sizable wagers on this crap. Reds were about 90% going to win that game, last checked they were losing 8-2 after the restart. BM could at least refund bettors their money in good faith. "Those are the rules" is pure nonsense and unacceptable.
    Last edited by Optional; 06-24-20 at 09:16 PM. Reason: changed ridic title

  2. #2
    the_orangekat
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    Game froze in the first inning. I'm watching, too. No telling who would've won. 9 inning game. Sure, bases loaded and 1-0 lead, no outs. What if the next batter hit into a DP? What if it was 1-0 or 2-0 after 1, well that is not a 90% chance of winning. Plenty of ball left to play.

    Game got restarted and Twins romped, Reds bettors the only ones really complaining.

    Would you complain if you had Minn? This is the argument Bookmaker will make. We only cry when we lose.

  3. #3
    RobertAnthonyT7
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    Optional, if you go on their interface they advertise it like it's legitimate. Go look. They take thousands of dollars in bets on it. Not some $100 limit nonsense. I think you're being unfair.

  4. #4
    RobertAnthonyT7
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_orangekat View Post
    Game froze in the first inning. I'm watching, too. No telling who would've won. 9 inning game. Sure, bases loaded and 1-0 lead, no outs. What if the next batter hit into a DP? What if it was 1-0 or 2-0 after 1, well that is not a 90% chance of winning. Plenty of ball left to play.

    Game got restarted and Twins romped, Reds bettors the only ones really complaining.

    Would you complain if you had Minn? This is the argument Bookmaker will make. We only cry when we lose.

    It's nonsense. At that point, there is a clear advantage. No question. I complained immediately.

  5. #5
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertAnthonyT7 View Post
    Optional, if you go on their interface they advertise it like it's legitimate. Go look. They take thousands of dollars in bets on it. Not some $100 limit nonsense. I think you're being unfair.
    As unfair as your thread title "Bookmaker cheats players" do you think?

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  6. #6
    RobertAnthonyT7
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    That was unfair as well. But I do have a legitimate gripe.

  7. #7
    RobertAnthonyT7
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    Bookmaker shouldn't be involved in taking "big money" simulation bets if there isn't a fair remedy once the game freezes. Seems like this wasn't the first time, according to the chat. Simply covering themselves with a "catch all rule" isn't enough. I've made a lot of bets, for a lot of money. This is the first time where I feel like I was cheated. I feel like a fool. Bookmaker is the best book out there, I was wrong for saying they scam. They don't. However, they shouldn't be involved in this simulation garbage if it isn't squared away. That's a sure fire way to lose credibility. They apparently got involved with Prime Action Sports. Well, Prime Action Sports has a long way to go. The simulation games that BM is pushing are awful and it should be noted. Moving on now. Lesson learned.
    Last edited by RobertAnthonyT7; 06-24-20 at 11:00 PM. Reason: misspelling

  8. #8
    PD77
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    How much did you wager on this particular e-sim?
    175 pts

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  9. #9
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertAnthonyT7 View Post
    That was unfair as well. But I do have a legitimate gripe.
    Honestly, I don't think you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertAnthonyT7 View Post
    Bookmaker shouldn't be involved in taking "big money" simulation bets
    And whilst I do agree books are pushing the limits of responsible gambling offering big limits on this flaky stuff, I also think they make the rules clear and we choose to bet under those terms, or not.

    I'm pretty confident Bookmaker would not be offering it if they thought it might be rigged btw.

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  10. #10
    DontTailMe
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    Computers have problems from time to time. If Bookmaker followed the rules as they were published before the game, then there is nothing to complain about. If you aren't comfortable with the rules, then you shouldn't be betting on sims at that book.

    Edit: What is this "catch all" rule they cited in this case? After writing this post, I went to read Bookmaker's rules just for giggles, and I see nothing which allows them to restart a game that was aborted.

    https://get.bookmaker.help/hc/en-us/...rts-Sims-Rules

    In fact, the closest thing I see - which admittedly applies to stream outage, not computer freeze - actually calls for wagers to be voided if a game is not finished. I know this rule is not specifically applicable to computer freezes. The only reason I outline it here is because I see nothing which applies to OP's scenario any better.

    If connectivity cannot be re-established and the game is not completed, all bets will have NO ACTION.
    There is this rule, but a reasonable reading of it only applies to glitches which occur during the game. It does not appear to grant permission to replay the same game over again.

    BookMaker recognizes the final score of the game at the end of the simulation. All bets have action regardless of any glitch caused by the game that may occur and affect the final score.
    Especially when you consider the example that they give:

    Ex. Bottom of the 9th score tied 7-7, man on 2nd and 3rd base. If there is a hit and both runners score, then it is possible the game will result in the final score 9-7. If this does occur, we will grade the game with the official final score 9-7.
    Is there another rule I'm missing here?
    Last edited by DontTailMe; 06-25-20 at 06:39 PM.

  11. #11
    juicername
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertAnthonyT7 View Post
    So, I'm bored and I try messing around with PrimeTime Action sports simulation BS. Long story short, I take the Reds. They are up 1-0, bases loaded, bottom 1, no outs. The game freezes. The Prime Time guy frantically tries to fix it, he can't. So what do they do- restart the game. Everything wiped out. I know BM covered themselves with BS rules, however they accept sizable wagers on this crap. Reds were about 90% going to win that game, last checked they were losing 8-2 after the restart. BM could at least refund bettors their money in good faith. "Those are the rules" is pure nonsense and unacceptable.
    It is a very unfortunate outcome indeed. Hand to heart though, if they refunded your bet, would you not have just bet the Reds again?

    Don't get me wrong, I completely understand why you feel cheated. If not held accountable, sportsbooks might ask stream providers to shut down streams if they feel they have too much exposure on a side that looks about to lose.
    Last edited by juicername; 06-25-20 at 02:41 AM.

  12. #12
    RobertAnthonyT7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Honestly, I don't think you do.



    And whilst I do agree books are pushing the limits of responsible gambling offering big limits on this flaky stuff, I also think they make the rules clear and we choose to bet under those terms, or not.

    I'm pretty confident Bookmaker would not be offering it if they thought it might be rigged btw.
    I donít think itís rigged Optional. In Madden, when there is a malfunction during tournament play they restart and put everything how it was or close to it as possible. Thatís for big money tournaments. I think thatís the better option. Itís 100% pushing the limits in my view.

  13. #13
    RobertAnthonyT7
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    Quote Originally Posted by juicername View Post
    It is a very unfortunate outcome indeed. Hand to heart though, if they refunded your bet, would you not have just bet the Reds again?

    Don't get me wrong, I completely understand why you feel cheated. If not held accountable, sportsbooks might ask stream providers to shut down streams if they feel they have too much exposure on a side that looks about to lose.
    I think they should of restarted and then duplicated how it was when the game was frozen. Similar to a Madden tournament. Itís the fairest way, not perfect, but more fair.

  14. #14
    RobertAnthonyT7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTailMe View Post
    Computers have problems from time to time. If Bookmaker followed the rules as they were published before the game, then there is nothing to complain about. If you aren't comfortable with the rules, then you shouldn't be betting on sims at that book.

    Edit: What is this "catch all" rule they cited in this case? After writing this post, I went to read Bookmaker's rules just for giggles, and I see nothing which allows them to restart a game that was aborted.

    https://get.bookmaker.help/hc/en-us/...rts-Sims-Rules

    In fact, the closest thing I see - which admittedly applies to stream outage, not computer freeze - actually calls for wagers to be voided if a game is not finished. I know this is specifically applicable to computer freezes. The only reason I outline it here is because I see nothing which applies to OP's scenario any better.



    There is this rule, but a reasonable reading of it only applies to glitches which occur during the game. It does not appear to grant permission to replay the same game over again.



    Especially when you consider the example that they give:



    Is there another rule I'm missing here?
    Iím not comfortable. Done with it. Itís worst than online BJ. Which is almost impossible.

  15. #15
    RobertAnthonyT7
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    Quote Originally Posted by PD77 View Post
    How much did you wager on this particular e-sim?
    Donít want to say the exact amount. More than $500. Embarrassed. Never again.

  16. #16
    RobertAnthonyT7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Honestly, I don't think you do.



    And whilst I do agree books are pushing the limits of responsible gambling offering big limits on this flaky stuff, I also think they make the rules clear and we choose to bet under those terms, or not.

    I'm pretty confident Bookmaker would not be offering it if they thought it might be rigged btw.
    We could agree to disagree. You donít seem to familiar with online gaming. Such as the Madden tournament. Etc. What if this happened in the bottom of the 9th and it was 10-1? Again, I donít think itís rigged. Itís just absurd to me to simply restart when I feel there is a more viable option. Such as restarting and putting the game where it left off or as close as possible.

  17. #17
    Brooklyn Dick
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    Anybody that bets this crap deserves what they get..................

  18. #18
    HomeRun35
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    It's perfectly fair for all sides. Whenever there is a glitch, which is rare for MLB sims, they restart the game. Just because you had the side that was winning doesn't make it any less fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    I'm pretty confident Bookmaker would not be offering it if they thought it might be rigged btw.
    It's clearly not rigged but it's easy for idiots who lose their money to claim rigged because it's a video game. But obviously it's only rigged when they lose, never when they win . And the squares lose their money alot faster in these than real baseball because the square sides are juiced much higher.

  19. #19
    HomeRun35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTailMe View Post
    Especially when you consider the example that they give:

    "Ex. Bottom of the 9th score tied 7-7, man on 2nd and 3rd base. If there is a hit and both runners score, then it is possible the game will result in the final score 9-7. If this does occur, we will grade the game with the official final score 9-7."



    Is there another rule I'm missing here?
    It's funny because this exact scenario actually happened last month and BM paid out bets as if the glitch didn't happen. 7-7 bottom 9, a double and 2 runs score to make it 9-7. I did not have a bet on the game but I saw people in the chat who had +1.5 saying they complained to BM and BM gave them the win. I assume they left the -1.5 bets as wins as I did not see anyone complain about getting shafted on a -1.5

  20. #20
    HomeRun35
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    Quote Originally Posted by juicername View Post
    It is a very unfortunate outcome indeed. Hand to heart though, if they refunded your bet, would you not have just bet the Reds again?
    And if the Reds were down 5-0 when they restarted or the Reds were up 8-2 when he checked the restart we wouldn't have a post at all
    Don't get me wrong, I completely understand why you feel cheated. If not held accountable, sportsbooks might ask stream providers to shut down streams if they feel they have too much exposure on a side that looks about to lose.
    This is a good point I didn't think of but BM has shown good faith and paid out at least once in a glitch situation where they didn't have to(see my above reply). Nothing I've seen in the last few months makes me think they are anything but completely fair

  21. #21
    RobertAnthonyT7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn Dick View Post
    Anybody that bets this crap deserves what they get..................
    Canít argue that one.

  22. #22
    RobertAnthonyT7
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeRun35 View Post
    It's perfectly fair for all sides. Whenever there is a glitch, which is rare for MLB sims, they restart the game. Just because you had the side that was winning doesn't make it any less fair.



    It's clearly not rigged but it's easy for idiots who lose their money to claim rigged because it's a video game. But obviously it's only rigged when they lose, never when they win . And the squares lose their money alot faster in these than real baseball because the square sides are juiced much higher.
    The idea that you think itís perfectly fair is absurd to me. Perfectly fair. Ok

  23. #23
    BrickJames
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    Optional has stated many times that you should not put to much stock into these simulations.

    Its just for fun.

  24. #24
    RobertAnthonyT7
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeRun35 View Post
    And if the Reds were down 5-0 when they restarted or the Reds were up 8-2 when he checked the restart we wouldn't have a post at all


    This is a good point I didn't think of but BM has shown good faith and paid out at least once in a glitch situation where they didn't have to(see my above reply). Nothing I've seen in the last few months makes me think they are anything but completely fair
    You canít tell me what I would of done. The team I wagered on had a clear advantage. They should of restarted and put the game where it should of been. Thatís what they do in Madden tournaments for big money. If they arenít prepared to do that then they shouldnít be doing it at all. They lost a customer. Didnít do it today. Never doing it again. Also cashed out of BM today. No more sims. No more Korean baseball. Probably would of lost triple by now. Bad business all around.

  25. #25
    RobertAnthonyT7
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    For the record- BM is the best offshore book and itís not close. Been using them for years. I just think they shouldnít be involved in these simulations. But if they choose to, they need to do something more then - ďthem the rulesĒ when a loyal customer gets screwed on a $600+ bet. Thatís my point.

  26. #26
    goduke
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    Should be no action for any game that doesnít finish. Itís the most fair way to do it, this way no one loses. Maybe one could argue that this would enable them to pull the plug on games they were exposed on but Iíd rather have no one lose then some lose some win.
    Then you also wouldnít have people coming in here with comments like ďoh if your team had won you wouldnít be complainingĒ which is such a frivolous point to what the overall issue is. Make it as fair and transparent as you can for what it is.

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