Curious about Betting Limits (Vegas and Online)?

[gLonghorn]

I’m new to the forum – I’ve read for a few months and haven’t posted much at all. I’m trying to guage the best way to get into the industry as a capper. I’ve been recreationally playing college hoops for a 10+ years with online accounts, local bookies, and the occasional trip to vegas. I’ve never laid more than $550 on a game to date, but I’ve gotten increasingly sophisticated with my modeling and I’m ready to do this for real. I intend to play college basketball lines and totals almost exclusively – and to try to make a living doing it. I know how daunting this will be, so I am approaching the task with eyes wide open.

If I were to move to vegas, what kind of action could I consistently get in the best casino sportsbooks? I’m not only talking about Kansas vs North Carolina, but also games like South Alabama vs Tulane or UC – Santa Barbara vs Chattanooga. Could I bet $1k on those CBB spreads and totals? $5k? I’m not talking about one time – I’m talking about every day.

I currently live in texas. Is there a way that I can call in bets to vegas? What if I set up an LLC in Vegas and had a local phone number there?

I expect the overwhelming suggestion to be that I need to get some online accounts, but I’m nervous about the amount of money that I would be depositing and the riskiness of the deposit/withdraw transactions. What kind of limits do the best online books offer over the long term (let's assume/hope i'm a winner)?

Yes, I intend to pay taxes.

I understand how different the bankroll behaves with a 5% online vig versus a 10% vegas vig, so at some point it seems like you just take the online risk – particularly if you aren’t getting higher limits or other benefits from vegas.

Thanks for the help!

[iceminers26]

From what I have heard, you can bet anything under 10k in vegas and not have to worry about taxes. However, you plan on paying taxes so it does not matter in your situation. You would however want to spread your action around over several books though so you would not get shut off at a book.

You higher limits are online with the offshore books and you won't have any problems if you stick with the A+ books, such as, The Greek, Bet Jam, 5 Dimes, Pinnacle, Bookmaker, etc. Your money is safe with these books and you have a creditable site like SBR to back you up if for some weird reason something happened.

Good luck with your venture bud.

[cinpls081]

you should play online and pay your taxes. If you are betting 1000 per game and go say 60-40 at a book you would only net 18 units with 5% juice. That would only be 18K dollars. Thats not that much to be honest with you. Playing in Vegas is crazy you would lose so much $$ due to juice over the course of the year. Open up at 5 or 6 online books so you can shop for the best price. Very had to make it good luck. Also sprinkle in a few locals for cash deals

[iceminers26]

Yes, def have at least 5 online accounts.

Aside from the lower prices, I think its easier online because you have less distractions that in Vegas.

[gLonghorn]

My question is not about the taxes, it is about the limits. I know the vig disadvantage of vegas, but i'm not looking to go 60-40 and make $18k. I'm looking to go 600-400 and make $187,000 - or higher if i could wager more than $1100/game. i know that a 60% winning percentage isn't realistic, i was just extending cinpls081's analogy.

Could i bet $10,000 on five different games in one day online? Could i do that in vegas?

Don't worry - i'm not saying i intend to, but there seem to be different limits on a per game and per day basis. I'm not looking to do something for a weekend and then leave - i'm trying to do this day in and day out.

[iceminers26]

I am not sure with Vegas, but you could easily get that action down at the top rated online books.

[gym rat]

Vegas is a pain in the ass. Walking around to different books and most of the time they limit you or say I can only take $3000 at that price then we have to change the odds and might let you make another bet. People have this idea that Vegas will accept any bet, just name the amount, and that just simply isn't true at least not in my experience. Online shopping is the way to go, no comparison in my opinion.

[gLonghorn]

I'm surprised that i'm not getting better feedback here. I'll try to explain where i'm coming from a little better. If you really want to make a living or supplement your income meaningfully, i'd think that the expectation would be to try to make at least $100k/year.

If i'm realistically not going to make more than 5 bets/day, and i want to be conservative with an assumed winning percentage, then the math tells me that i need to be making about 5 $2000 bets/day if my goal is >$100k/year. I'm assuming that each bet is the same unit size - if i double or triple weight some bets i think i run into problems. Clearly i'm going to run into issues betting >$5,000 on college basketball spreads and totals, right? Maybe not. It seems like the above feedback has been - 'no problem at the A+ online books'.

Given the volatility that occurs from a mid-50s winning percentage, your bankroll needs to be at least 20 units or so (AT LEAST). I just can't get comfortable depositing $50,000 across a few different online sportsbooks yet.

Am i being paranoid?

[durito]

You are being unrealistic.

[Arilou]

Yes, you're being paranoid, but in a good way. It's only logical to be nervous when you don't have a track record to rely on. The only way you will make a living doing this is to have six figures online across a few different online sportsbooks. Online is where you'll find the best prices, the highest limits and it's actually far safer than elsewhere if you stick to the top level books. I feel almost as safe with my money at the A+ books as I do with the money I have at banks; the risk of losing your funds is trivial compared to the risk of losing even if you really are a 55%+ capper. A variety of places lets you price shop, which is vital, and it lets you get down more money reliably, which is important to you. To win you'll need to be able to get down decent amounts at good prices or even the best capping won't pay the rent. Concentrate on the books that give you low-juice outs (Pinnacle, Matchbook and 5Dimes should be in your lineup, and if you're ok with the rating and you should be also BetPheonix) and only pay -110 when a book is leaning or you're overwhelming the market and need every dollar at every book you have access to. Betting early lines is one good reason to pay the juice and to finish with Greek and Bookmaker, which would round out my group. If you have the money, I'd try to diversify my outs even more; keep an eye on the offerings of the other A/A+ books and see when you would have wanted to bet there. If it happens often, use them. Lower-rated books are good for bonuses and weak lines, but do carry some risk and you should like you don't want to deal with that.

[Arilou]

Now, on CBB. CBB is a strange sport. It is one place where you could realistically claim to go 55%+ and I wouldn't assume you were wrong, but getting down is a problem. On MLB, NBA, NFL, CFB or any major soccer or tennis 5k is trivial. For March Madness 5k will be trivial in CBB, including the NIT, and usually the CIB and conference tournaments, but early on CBB is not a major sport. 5k on totals simply won't happen at any one place on minor games in December. Your best bet is to get a lot of different books, as many as you can that offer totals (since this is all you'll use them for, you won't need that big a deposit, and you pick up the new account bonus from them which helps build your initial roll), and build your 5k by betting at all of them, being willing to rebet at secondary prices where you think you have the value (especially at the low juice outfits) and trying to queue up as many books as possible at the same time before the line moves - 5k WILL move it. Definitely be willing to call in for more money at Bookmaker and Greek.

Even that probably won't get you 5k unless you are willing to run the number, which you should NOT do more than a little, but as the season progresses you'll get more and more. Sides are more forgiving. The low juice outs should get you more than halfway there and you can either rebet there or call in to a -110 book to get the rest; on majors you should be ok with just the low juice books, and things will be better in January. By February you would be fine with a single low-juice book or at most two; one bet will get it done in March.

[cinpls081]

you have no shot of making a living this way. I'm sorry but no shot save your money. What happens when you lose 25 games in a row at 2000 a game? It will happen at some point. If you are going to be making these sorts of wagers you need to use locals and get 20 off your loss. Honestly to be asking these sorts of questions you HAVE ZERO CHANCE of making a living in this game. I'm not being rude but you should have agreements worked out with people and be getting back huge dollars off of losses. Because if you plan on making 1000 wagers this year thats 20 a week. You will have weeks that you go 2-18 no doubt and lose your shirt.

[gLonghorn]

cinpls - i'm pretty sure that NOT asking these questions would be a bigger problem than asking them. I don't have the sorts of agreements that you are referring to in place, so that's something that i will work on. i'm putting the pieces in place - not in a hurry to make 1000 wagers this year. let's say for argument's sake that i had a 56% winning process - why wouldn't i evaluate the best way to exploit that?

Is your comment about getting 20 off your loss simply an agreement to get 8% vig instead of 10 or are you saying that they would refund some of my lost bankroll even if i'm a long term winner?

in response to your question "What happens when you lose 25 games in a row at 2000 a game?". I did the math and it looks like my bankroll will go down by $50,000.

i don't see how that is relevant at all. i think the point of your comment is that you have to have a very substantial bankroll in order to make these large wagers. This is true. You can't have a goal of making >$100k if you are not willing to risk quite a bit. i appreciate it if you are trying to convey that. maybe you were correlating the comment about my comfort with putting $50k with the online books as being the size of my bankroll. That is not the case. I'm quite aware of the volatility and bankroll swings that are realistic, and 25 losses in a row is not very realistic (0.00012% chance of happening over 1000 bets). It is an uncomfortable fact that even a 60% capper can have weeks/months/years of negative outcomes. That further reiterates the point that you need a profitable process, a robust bankroll (relative to your betting units), and a lot of discipline to do this.

I appreciate the ZERO CHANCE comments though. very helpful. must make you feel good.

[username474]

I’m new to the forum – I’ve read for a few months and haven’t posted much at all. I’m trying to guage the best way to get into the industry as a capper. I’ve been recreationally playing college hoops for a 10+ years with online accounts, local bookies, and the occasional trip to vegas. I’ve never laid more than $550 on a game to date, but I’ve gotten increasingly sophisticated with my modeling and I’m ready to do this for real. I intend to play college basketball lines and totals almost exclusively – and to try to make a living doing it. I know how daunting this will be, so I am approaching the task with eyes wide open.

If I were to move to vegas, what kind of action could I consistently get in the best casino sportsbooks? I’m not only talking about Kansas vs North Carolina, but also games like South Alabama vs Tulane or UC – Santa Barbara vs Chattanooga. Could I bet $1k on those CBB spreads and totals? $5k? I’m not talking about one time – I’m talking about every day.

I currently live in texas. Is there a way that I can call in bets to vegas? What if I set up an LLC in Vegas and had a local phone number there?

I expect the overwhelming suggestion to be that I need to get some online accounts, but I’m nervous about the amount of money that I would be depositing and the riskiness of the deposit/withdraw transactions. What kind of limits do the best online books offer over the long term (let's assume/hope i'm a winner)?

Yes, I intend to pay taxes.

I understand how different the bankroll behaves with a 5% online vig versus a 10% vegas vig, so at some point it seems like you just take the online risk – particularly if you aren’t getting higher limits or other benefits from vegas.

Thanks for the help!

Getting down 5k on cbb totals solely dependent on vegas books would be difficult to near impossible after a year or two.The few sportsbooks that still allow phone accounts have very small limits and may not even take cbb totals. Dealing with reputable online books will not take you long to start to feel comfortable with. The discounted prices that you can get online are essential as well. Getting residency out side of the U.S. would make you exempt on the first 85k you make and allow you to deal with pinnacle and make moving money around a lot easier.

[username474]

And do not mind cinpls081 comments he still thinks the world is flat and the only way to make 100k a year is to work a lot of overtime at McDonalds.

[durito]

Getting residency out side of the U.S. would make you exempt on the first 85k you make and allow you to deal with pinnacle and make moving money around a lot easier.

Nope.

Gambling winnings are not eligible (nor is any "unearned income") for the foreign tax exemption. US citizens owe full taxes on gambling winnings no matter what country they reside in.

[username474]

Nope.

Gambling winnings are not eligible (nor is any "unearned income") for the foreign tax exemption. US citizens owe full taxes on gambling winnings no matter what country they reside in.

Who is your accountant??? You live outside of the country and pay full tax on your gambling winnings? I have a merit badge for you and your cub scout leader accountant.

[durito]

.

[_Stat_]

Duritio,

Gambling income is only unearned if you don't file a schedule C and pay self employment tax.

[durito]

Duritio,

Gambling income is only unearned if you don't file a schedule C and pay self employment tax.

So, if one did that, would it then qualify for the foreign income tax exemption? As far as I can see, self employed people living in foreign countries do not qualify.

[DukeJohn]

If I were to move to vegas, what kind of action could I consistently get in the best casino sportsbooks? I’m not only talking about Kansas vs North Carolina, but also games like South Alabama vs Tulane or UC – Santa Barbara vs Chattanooga. Could I bet $1k on those CBB spreads and totals? $5k? I’m not talking about one time – I’m talking about every day.

Answering your questions quickly as I don't have much time, but I, as well as others, have posted links to limits in Vegas sportbooks, you can search for them, but the quick answer, you will not be able to get those kind of limits down everyday. Probably during March Madness, but that is mostly the only time.

I currently live in texas. Is there a way that I can call in bets to vegas? What if I set up an LLC in Vegas and had a local phone number there?

Nope, would not work for the amount you are talking about. I have also answered this before... lol... anyway, the limits are around $200 and if and only if the Sportbook is willing to allow any bets placed that way. Also, if I remember correctly it was a total limit for the day... meaning if you wanted to bet only $5 a game at several books, that was fine, but it could not go over the daily limit when added together.

What kind of limits do the best online books offer over the long term (let's assume/hope i'm a winner)?

You will only have a couple of books that will allow you to get $5K down on CBB everyday. I do not have the exact limits for CBB, but if they are comparable to NHL then you are only looking at YouWager, Jazzsports, & BookMaker... Those are the only books that allow $5K limits in NHL that are rated B or better and accept US customers. Of course Carib Sports allows it if you do it in $1K increments... A lot of people talk about big limits, but the truth is, they are just numbers on paper, once you start betting them, then all of a sudden those where not the actual limits after all...

[SPECULATOR 13]

I’m new to the forum – I’ve read for a few months and haven’t posted much at all. I’m trying to guage the best way to get into the industry as a capper. I’ve been recreationally playing college hoops for a 10+ years with online accounts, local bookies, and the occasional trip to vegas. I’ve never laid more than $550 on a game to date, but I’ve gotten increasingly sophisticated with my modeling and I’m ready to do this for real. I intend to play college basketball lines and totals almost exclusively – and to try to make a living doing it. I know how daunting this will be, so I am approaching the task with eyes wide open.

GL first of all don't allow for any one to dissuade you from your dream,if you want do to this for a living you will make it happen,as one does for any other business one want to start in any other fields.Somehow for some sports speculation is this ephemeris and impossible dream that is only possible in one's head....
In Vegas there is 6 independents witch my research have showed to be the only places to get any kind of action on a regular basis with a minimum of aggravation.

*L.V.Hilton
*Southpoint
*M.Casino(in a short time they have acquired the reputation of being the best book in vegas for wiseguys,overtaking L.V.H & Southpoint)
*Cal Neva's group(Tuscany,4Queen,Binions)
*Lucky's Race & Sportsbook
*Leroy's Race & Sportsbook
--I once thought that Winn was in the same class but i have subsequently heard conflicting reports.
Any of these books will take 2.5K-5k college BB according the testimonies i have received personally from people whom have actually done so on a regular basis.If you move to Vegas i would suggest to you not be afraid to open a account with matchbook and a phone account with bookmaker with those 2 put together along with the access you will have to all the books mention above will allow you really lay it big,once you reach that level.
As far as the taxes are concern,check this link it is from the proverbial horse mouth:
http://www.casinogaming.com/features/taxlaws.html

Good Luck lad,

[FishFace5]

you have no shot of making a living this way. I'm sorry but no shot save your money. What happens when you lose 25 games in a row at 2000 a game? It will happen at some point. If you are going to be making these sorts of wagers you need to use locals and get 20 off your loss. Honestly to be asking these sorts of questions you HAVE ZERO CHANCE of making a living in this game. I'm not being rude but you should have agreements worked out with people and be getting back huge dollars off of losses. Because if you plan on making 1000 wagers this year thats 20 a week. You will have weeks that you go 2-18 no doubt and lose your shirt.

What was the point of this post??? Horribly pessimistic and inaccurate. I'm glad OP posted the percentage on going 0 for 25. He said he's been gambling for 10+ years, you don't think he understands he's going to lose some weeks?? Also you suggested 20% on losses??? From a local??? Local\online\vegas doesn't matter, NOBODY is going to offer 20% on losses to a winning player. Go get em OP, Fuk the haters. Some others have made good suggestions here, BOL.

[BrianLaverty]

DukeJohn... I've bet the max on straight bet for NCAA games ($5000) several times. And I didn't have limits on parlays at all. So I would put them in the same category.

The max by the way isn't really a max.... I would put 5000 on a team at -105 and then i refresh the page and it goes to -110... then I could bet 5k again.. These bets were accepted. And it was always to WIN 5k... A+ book.

[reno cool]

GL first of all don't allow for any one to dissuade you from your dream,if you want do to this for a living you will make it happen,as one does for any other business one want to start in any other fields.Somehow for some sports speculation is this ephemeris and impossible dream that is only possible in one's head....
In Vegas there is 6 independents witch my research have showed to be the only places to get any kind of action on a regular basis with a minimum of aggravation.

*L.V.Hilton
*Southpoint
*M.Casino(in a short time they have acquired the reputation of being the best book in vegas for wiseguys,overtaking L.V.H & Southpoint)
*Cal Neva's group(Tuscany,4Queen,Binions)
*Lucky's Race & Sportsbook
*Leroy's Race & Sportsbook
--I once thought that Winn was in the same class but i have subsequently heard conflicting reports.
Any of these books will take 2.5K-5k college BB according the testimonies i have received personally from people whom have actually done so on a regular basis.If you move to Vegas i would suggest to you not be afraid to open a account with matchbook and a phone account with bookmaker with those 2 put together along with the access you will have to all the books mention above will allow you really lay it big,once you reach that level.
As far as the taxes are concern,check this link it is from the proverbial horse mouth:
http://www.casinogaming.com/features/taxlaws.html

Good Luck lad,

gd post

[crinkle]

You have to have absolutely no life if you're going to gamble for a living. How can you make time to do anything else because you have to see all the games and watch your action. Don't get me wrong gambling can be fun and rewarding for a select few % of sharp individuals but for the most part the other 99.99% lose their money.

My worthless advice is for you not to become a pro gambler and focus on having a better quality of life. Even if you make a million bucks you're paying a price because you probably will have no life.

GLTU

[Ruifgalmeida]

my advise move to Canada or mexico and bet with pinnacle and get less that 2% vig as for 10k bets should not be a problem with top books, 10% vig in vegas is a joke that is a lot of money gone

[reno cool]

You have to have absolutely no life if you're going to gamble for a living. How can you make time to do anything else because you have to see all the games and watch your action. Don't get me wrong gambling can be fun and rewarding for a select few % of sharp individuals but for the most part the other 99.99% lose their money.

My worthless advice is for you not to become a pro gambler and focus on having a better quality of life. Even if you make a million bucks you're paying a price because you probably will have no life.

GLTU

Most pros have too much free time on their hands.

[gLonghorn]

as for crinkle's comment - i think that you will find that most cappers that rely heavily on mathematical models and big databases don't spend their time watching games. i enjoy watching basketball and some of my general observations do find their ways into my models, but i'm looking at 20,000 lines/year and trying to make 3,000+ picks. My time is spent running numbers. Hopefully, if the database and spreadsheets are working right, i'm not spending more than a couple of hours/day.

[durito]

First learn how to stake your wagers properly (read the think tank and posts on kelly criterion)

Then realize the ncaab market is very limited these days this time of year. If you have the skills to model this, you can work on other sports, and there are other easy ways to make money doing this. In fact, there are much easier ways. Learn all the gambling math you can first. Learn about all the sportsbooks and what they offer.

[durito]

http://forum.sbrforum.com/players-talk/29009-expected-value-vs-expected-growth-kelly-criterion-part-i.html#post250260

http://forum.sbrforum.com/handicapper-think-tank/29009-expected-value-vs-expected-growth-kelly-criterion-part-i.html#post250260

And learn how to calculate vig since -110 is certainly not 10% as many allude to here:

http://forum.sbrforum.com/handicapper-think-tank/12142-introduction-expectations-theoretical-hold.html

[SPECULATOR 13]

gd post

Thanks Reno