Check your log if you placed a Matchbook offer shortly before NFL early games

Santo · 10-25-09, 01:18 PM

What time does your log show the NFL bet was matched?

msdw1 · 10-25-09, 01:19 PM

multiple matches between 13:06 and 13:20. most of the money was matched at 13:20.

KGambler · 10-25-09, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by msdw1

multiple matches between 13:06 and 13:20. most of the money was matched at 13:20.

How do you see what time the bets were accepted?

KGambler · 10-25-09, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by KGambler

How do you see what time the bets were accepted?

OK, I figured it out. It says "time submitted" but is actually the time it was accepted. All of my bets were accepted before 1:00 PM, so it didn't happen to me.

Didn't MB also screw up the 0.2% offer payment last week? I saw that on the front page of SBR, but couldn't find a thread about it. I checked my bets and couldn't find any where I wasn't given the 0.2%, but it's a little scary to see these types of screwups.

msdw1 · 10-25-09, 03:12 PM

I received an update from MB

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Dear x,

We are doing a full investigation of your Green Bay at Cleveland Total offer. Once we confirm that you pre game offer was matched after the game went live we will provide full compensation based on expected loss at the time the trade was matched.

There was a minor manual admin error with this total market. We momentarily manually re opened the market while in the process of setting it to live status. This very brief administrative error may have caused you offer to re appear.

Once we conclude our investigation we will send you a follow up email,

Regards,

Maurice Clancy

Matchbook Client Services

Santo · 10-25-09, 03:20 PM

"based on expected loss at the time the trade was matched" sounds like a dispute in the making...

Hareeba! · 10-25-09, 06:35 PM

If they are consistent they will simply void the bet as they did to me early in the MLB season when they cancelled two winning bets which were matched before the start of play because of their error. No offer to compensate me for the amount I missed winning.

HedgeHog · 10-25-09, 06:39 PM

MB seems to be having a lot of problems lately.

bleedblue · 10-25-09, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

If they are consistent they will simply void the bet as they did to me early in the MLB season when they cancelled two winning bets which were matched before the start of play because of their error. No offer to compensate me for the amount I missed winning.

I dont think they can do this. I assume the problem was the offer was carried over into livebetting, or they left the line up and the accepting players may have thought it was a live line. I dont think cancelling those players bets is fair.

Originally posted by Santo

"based on expected loss at the time the trade was matched" sounds like a dispute in the making...

Agreed, though I would expect they would give OP a fair offer. I assume the majority of his bet was accepted when GB turned it over on downs on the first drive. I suck at capping totals live, but I imagine the under was worth somewhere between -150 and -200 at that point. If Matchy gives OP half his bet back that would be more than fair.

Hareeba! · 10-25-09, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by bleedblue

I dont think they can do this. I assume the problem was the offer was carried over into livebetting, or they left the line up and the accepting players may have thought it was a live line. I dont think cancelling those players bets is fair.

I agree, if they were made in good faith.

But that's what happened to me.

tomcowley · 10-25-09, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by bleedblue

I dont think they can do this. I assume the problem was the offer was carried over into livebetting, or they left the line up and the accepting players may have thought it was a live line. I dont think cancelling those players bets is fair.

Agreed, though I would expect they would give OP a fair offer. I assume the majority of his bet was accepted when GB turned it over on downs on the first drive. I suck at capping totals live, but I imagine the under was worth somewhere between -150 and -200 at that point. If Matchy gives OP half his bet back that would be more than fair.

No way- they effectively forcing the player to make a bet on something he didn't bet, at odds he wouldn't necessarily want, for an amount he had no control over. If it's their technical error, they eat the loss. Or they void the bet and piss off the winners.

bleedblue · 10-25-09, 11:56 PM

Yea you are right, Tom. I dont know what I was thinking. Matchbook shouldnt be allowed to look at it from an EV standpoint. Pay the winners and refund OP his bet.

Hareeba! · 10-26-09, 04:19 AM

Originally posted by bleedblue

Yea you are right, Tom. I dont know what I was thinking. Matchbook shouldnt be allowed to look at it from an EV standpoint. Pay the winners and refund OP his bet.

In my case, that was the solution I would have expected from an honourable bookmaker but alas it wasn't to be. They now have a long long way to go to earn back my respect.

magnavox · 10-26-09, 02:21 PM

There's also a flaw within the software, that results in bets being matched twice.

msdw1 · 10-26-09, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by magnavox

There's also a flaw within the software, that results in bets being matched twice.

Did that happen when you changed your offer?

I thought that happened to me in the past but it can appear to happen when the user changes the odds on an existing offer. The software does not update the screen in real-time so my initial offer was matched before I updated it to match an existing offer. To avoid this, you can cancel the unfilled order, verify that it wasn't matched and submit a new offer. It is a pain but it is better than trading out of the surplus and paying the commission on both sides.

I still haven't heard anything from MB regarding my dispute. Ugh.

magnavox · 10-26-09, 04:22 PM

msdw1, this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

msdw1 · 10-26-09, 06:41 PM

I hear you, magnavox. It is sad that MB is the one betting exchange that survived for US players.

I cannot even reach the Maurice guy who is investigating my complaint. He has not responded to my follow-up phone call or email.

msdw1 · 10-27-09, 11:41 AM

MB has decided that I should be reimbursed for $585 out of the $2000 that I lost! This is beyond ridiculous. I get only a quarter back out of a bet that should have never been available for live market trading. Can you believe how they calculated it? I had no knowledge of the bet still being out there for live betting. If it was not matched during the first 19 minutes, it would have been matched anytime after that when the outcome was much more obvious.

I used to recommend MB. Not anymore.

************
We will compensate you for the equity you lost on having you traded matched after the official start time of the event. You were matched at odds of -105, the market consistently traded at -101 for a further 18 minutes. We calculate you loss on equity at this point to have been $85.

We would also like to compensate you for pointing out a unique administrative error on our end which could have had larger consequences in a different scenario. We have now put new procedures in place to ensure that this never happens again. While the $85 of compensation for the loss in you equity looks small we will credit you account with a further $500.00 for helping us identify this administrative error.
***************

Santo · 10-27-09, 12:00 PM

If we assume the 13:20 trades were matched when an offensive drive was halted, the $85 calculation appears to be incorrect -- I don't know what the Betfair market was like on that game, but it may be a better indicator.

I suspected this would be the solution they come up with, which is why I predicted a dispute. Will be curious to see SBR's opinion on it.

magnavox · 10-27-09, 12:37 PM

He did not know he had a bet. If not then it would have been matched later or never at all. This is to be refunded in full. They can keep the $500 compensation to themselves.

BTW they clearly admitted a big fuck-up. I don't see how a player can lose this case.

bleedblue · 10-27-09, 12:46 PM

I have confirmed the packers were stopped on 4th down at 1:19 pm. With just over 8.5 minutes gone and below average field position the over is only ~40% to win, making matchbook's calculation laughable. The $85 calculation makes me think they just said "let's just give him $10 per minute"....

Oh, and aside from the butchered calculation of his expected loss, this should be a full refund...

Chuck Sims · 10-27-09, 02:58 PM

msdw1, I am trying to understand this fully. If the bet offered before the game should not have been carried over to live betting, then of course a full refund is in order.

I do know they have a rule that says a bet offered is live until cancelled. Since Matchbook offers all NFL games live, one would think the bettor would have to cancel the offer.

Is Matchbook saying its your responsibility to cancel the offer? If not, then how can they not refund your money?

msdw1 · 10-27-09, 03:07 PM

Chuck, if an offer is placed before the start of the game, then the offer gets cancelled once the game goes off the board. Live betting always starts with a clean slate. Offers are never supposed to carry over.

andywend · 10-27-09, 03:20 PM

MB has decided that I should be reimbursed for $585 out of the $2000 that I lost! This is beyond ridiculous. I get only a quarter back out of a bet that should have never been available for live market trading. Can you believe how they calculated it? I had no knowledge of the bet still being out there for live betting. If it was not matched during the first 19 minutes, it would have been matched anytime after that when the outcome was much more obvious.

Msdw1, you are certainly NOT entitled to a full refund in this case and you are WRONG to demand one.

It is very easy to understand how MB came up with the $585 reimbursement.

They reviewed their bet logs on the game and came up with the fair value price at the time your trade was matched. For example, if your order was to buy the over at even money ($2,000 to win $2,000) and the fair price on the over was +180 at the time your order was matched, this would equate to ($1,428 to win $2,572) and you would be due $572.

While I do agree that MB should give you a higher rate of reimbursement (and they might have done just that) to compensate for their error, you are certainly NOT ENTITLED to a full refund in this case as if the game went over, you would have gladly accepted the winnings and wouldn't have filed this complaint.

Matchbook reimbursing you the $585 made you WHOLE on the deal.

By the way, if the impossible occurred and your order was matched much later in the game when the value became more obvious, then MB would have reimbursed you for a higher amount.

tomcowley · 10-27-09, 03:24 PM

They placed a ****ing bet he didn't ask for. If Bookmaker puts a random $2200 to win $2000 bet in my account, tells me.. oh, sorry, totally our mistake, but it was only -4.5% EV (random -110) when we placed it, here's your $200 juice back, I'm flying to costa rica and killing people.

msdw1 · 10-27-09, 03:27 PM

Andy, you are so wrong. I informed them of the issue in the first half. I would not have expected them to give me any winnings if the over cashed. If I was trying to freeroll, I would have waited for the game to end. Regular offers don't go into live betting. Period.

bleedblue · 10-27-09, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by andywend

Msdw1, you are certainly NOT entitled to a full refund in this case and you are WRONG to demand one.

It is very easy to understand how MB came up with the $585 reimbursement.

They reviewed their bet logs on the game and came up with the fair value price at the time your trade was matched. For example, if your order was to buy the over at even money ($2,000 to win $2,000) and the fair price on the over was +180 at the time your order was matched, this would equate to ($1,428 to win $2,572) and you would be due $572.

While I do agree that MB should give you a higher rate of reimbursement (and they might have done just that) to compensate for their error, you are certainly NOT ENTITLED to a full refund in this case as if the game went over, you would have gladly accepted the winnings and wouldn't have filed this complaint.

Matchbook reimbursing you the $585 made you WHOLE on the deal.

By the way, if the impossible occurred and your order was matched much later in the game when the value became more obvious, then MB would have reimbursed you for a higher amount.

Except that they said it was $85 for "expected losses" and $500 for inconvenience/pointing out the error. Their $85 in "expected losses" calculation is way off.

andywend · 10-27-09, 03:37 PM

msdw,

How long after the bet was matched did you inform them of the error?

If you informed them shortly after the bet was matched and told them you wanted the bet cancelled, then you are indeed entitled to the entire $2,000 being refunded to you.

tomcowley · 10-27-09, 03:39 PM

Once the ball has been kicked, it's absolutely not the bet he requested. It's no different than if they'd matched the bet out of my account and then tried to partially reimburse me.

msdw1 · 10-27-09, 03:52 PM

andy, I found out about the error near the end of the 1st quarter. I called them once the 2nd quarter started.

BigDaddy · 10-27-09, 04:06 PM

how anyone can think the OP doesn't deserve a full refund is beyond me.

Chuck Sims · 10-27-09, 04:08 PM

Maybe MB has changed their software since I got burned a few years back. I placed a $2050 wager on the Steelers Sunday night game at Denver. The bet was not matched but carried over to live betting. I had forgotten to cancel the offer. It cost me big.

msdw1, this is so clear cut. If the offer was suppose to be wiped clean at the start of the game then you deserve a refund. I cannot figure out what MB is thinking unless they feel you were taking a shot.

msdw1 · 10-27-09, 04:38 PM

Chuck, based on the email response, it sounds like they didn't fix their software since you were burned. They must use a manual process (their term is "unique administrative error on our end" in the email) that is prone to error. This is the only way to explain why most live markets correctly don't carry over regular offers.

It is horrible to think about how many times this has happened without the victims even knowing about it. Most people probably just think they did not remember what happened correctly and trust MB without checking the logs.

msdw1 · 10-27-09, 09:15 PM

Justin@SBR replied to my complaint. Hope he can help.

*********************************
I agree that it's not reasonable to convert a pre-game offer into a live-game offer. I note they have a rule on point here:
All open offers are automatically cancelled by Matchbook at the start of an event. Should a market remain open for trading past the start of the event due to an erroneously listed starting time, all trades made after the event's actual starting time will be voided.

I don't know why your offer remained open, but I'll contact them to try to find a better resolution.
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