Bovada stiffing a player for winning - A new low for a sportsbook

[HedgeHog]

I don't remember anyone saying this was resolved - player, Bovada, nor SBR. And I don't see any updates at all in this thread.

However, I did find the second other occurrence of this Bovada recreational player BS I mentioned in my comment above. Not sure if this guy ever submitted a dispute.

https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...l#post29453914

Ok, I misread post #50. I thought some agreement was reached...apparently not.

[DontTailMe]

Nah. It just sounds like miscommunication to me. Personally, I'll wait to hear what the final answer is.

[Fitz030808]

Optional, you hearing anything on this? Very interesting thread. With Bovada allowing accounts to be “bitcoin exclusive”, you get a 50% cash bonus, as far as I can tell, weekly. If there isn’t any clear circumstances, breaking max limits, past posting, etc...this is very concerning for those using this bonus system.

[Optional]

I don't know any more than what has been posted Fitz. One of he CR admin guys was looking after him.

[HedgeHog]

This has gone on way too long. What’s Bovada’s official position on this matter? Stealing funds because of suspected pro action is not acceptable, especially for an A+ sponsor book. If Bovada wants to claim bad bets, like correlated action or past posting on bets that were made after games started... then they should say so. Likewise multiple accounts would be a reason to withhold profits. I’d like to give Bovada the benefit of the doubt, but they have done nothing to refute the OP’s complaint.

[DontTailMe]

This has gone on way too long. What’s Bovada’s official position on this matter? Stealing funds because of suspected pro action is not acceptable, especially for an A+ sponsor book. If Bovada wants to claim bad bets, like correlated action or past posting on bets that were made after games started... then they should say so. Likewise multiple accounts would be a reason to withhold profits. I’d like to give Bovada the benefit of the doubt, but they have done nothing to refute the OP’s complaint.

Don't give them any ideas :-/

This is two players in the past month or so who have reported having their bonuses stolen from them by Bovada citing the newly added "recreational player" clause on their bonuses. They need to address this because what it amounts to is a FREE ROLL clause they can use at their discretion. It's one thing to label a player as non-recreational and limit their action. It's another thing entirely to RETROACTIVELY label them non-recreational and void legitimate winnings.

[Sleepless]

Don't give them any ideas :-/

This is two players in the past month or so who have reported having their bonuses stolen from them by Bovada citing the newly added "recreational player" clause on their bonuses. They need to address this because what it amounts to is a FREE ROLL clause they can use at their discretion. It's one thing to label a player as non-recreational and limit their action. It's another thing entirely to RETROACTIVELY label them non-recreational and void legitimate winnings.

Very well said. This echoes my sentiment to a T. I would also like to reiterate is that they saw my action for my first 3 deposits and still offered me a bonus to entice me to redeposit and play more. When I started to win, they continued to accept my bets. It was only when I attempted to make a withdrawal that I was labeled a skilled player and they seized my winnings. And to boot, it has been documented on this forum that I am not the only one that this has happened to.

[HedgeHog]

I'm hoping Bovada will respond to why the OP's winnings were confiscated.

[Sleepless]

From an earlier post (#50) you said that SBR contacted you regarding this matter and you were optimistic this would be resolved (see below). Can you provide more details on that conversation?

"I had a brief moment of optimism when SBR reported back to me that my account would be reinstated and I would be able to withdraw my balance"

SBR informed me that Bovada had told them that my account had been reinstated to withdraw my remaining balance. I interpreted this to mean that they had put back the winnings that they had removed and were going to allow me to withdraw them. I attempted to sign into my account and it said it was disabled and to contact customer service. I contacted them to ask for me to allowed to complete the withdrawal and they informed me that nothing had changed and my balance was still 0. So basically have no idea what Bovada was talking about when they told SBR the account was reinstated and that I could withdraw the balance. The $12,581 that was removed from my account still has not been put back and I still have not been paid on my winnings.

[Sleepless]

I'm hoping Bovada will respond to why the OP's winnings were confiscated.

They already have, both to me and I believe to SBR. I would very much welcome them to explain in this forum their justification for accepting bets and then not paying out when they won on the grounds that I accepted the bonus that they offered to me. Let them say publicly that their rules state that they can retroactively void legitimate winning bets if they decide they were skilled. I do not anticipate that this is something that they have an interest in acknowledging and becoming public knowledge but I sure would welcome it.

[HedgeHog]

They already have, both to me and I believe to SBR. I would very much welcome them to explain in this forum their justification for accepting bets and then not paying out when they won on the grounds that I accepted the bonus that they offered to me. Let them say publicly that their rules state that they can retroactively void legitimate winning bets if they decide they were skilled. I do not anticipate that this is something that they have an interest in acknowledging and becoming public knowledge but I sure would welcome it.

From my experience, A+ Books don't confiscate funds by invoking the non-recreational rule. Instead they kick pros to the curb, but they always pay them in full. That's why this seems so odd to me. You said you had a good run since your last deposit, netting over 12 grand in profit before Bovada confiscated the winnings. What sport or sports were you winning on? And was this straight action or parlays?

[Fitz030808]

I’m not trying to kick a dead horse, but an official reason would be helpful. I’ve stated in a previous post, the new bonus structure of 50% cash weekly, is extremely generous for an A+ book. Now, if we’re citing “non-rec” bonus abuse, I think we need to relook at how Bovada is accumulating deposits, thru this new structure.

[Sleepless]

From my experience, A+ Books don't confiscate funds by invoking the non-recreational rule. Instead they kick pros to the curb, but they always pay them in full. That's why this seems so odd to me. You said you had a good run since your last deposit, netting over 12 grand in profit before Bovada confiscated the winnings. What sport or sports were you winning on? And was this straight action or parlays?

The fact that A+ books don't confiscate funds by invoking the non-recreational rule is the whole point. I can appreciate you finding it hard to believe this but this is the reality what they have told me and I believe SBR can confirm this. They have used the same rule to confiscate at least one other person on this forum's winnings as well. I'm unsure the relevance of your questions or the use in trying to find some other reason that they could have done this when they have directly said why they did it. Questions such as these will only serve as fuel for them to create an alternative excuse for their seizure when they have already stated exactly why they did so.

[HedgeHog]

The fact that A+ books don't confiscate funds by invoking the non-recreational rule is the whole point. I can appreciate you finding it hard to believe this but this is the reality what they have told me and I believe SBR can confirm this. They have used the same rule to confiscate at least one other person on this forum's winnings as well. I'm unsure the relevance of your questions or the use in trying to find some other reason that they could have done this when they have directly said why they did it. Questions such as these will only serve as fuel for them to create an alternative excuse for their seizure when they have already stated exactly why they did so.

Or questions regarding your betting pattern, may be key to why Bovada actually took your winnings. Avoiding this topic, makes you look suspicious IMO. I think that there is much more to this issue than you being a "pro" bettor. If it were my 12k in winnings, I'd be more forthcoming....unless I was making questionable wagers (i.e. heavily correlated parlays).

[DontTailMe]

Why does it matter what OP's betting patterns were? No one is officially licensed as a professional sports bettor. That label is granted to players by individual books subjectively. Therefore, a player doesn't know if he's considered "non-recreational" by Book X until it happens. That's why it's okay for them to not accept future contracts, but they cannot retroactively void past contracts. That effectively gives them free roll power over all players. And in this case, not only did they retroactively void legitimate contracts, but they did so after allowing him to lose $4,685 worth of deposits to them. I guess he was considered "recreational" when he was losing, right?

This is MyCrookie level behavior we're witnessing here. Would love for SBR and/or Bovada to clarify things for us. I truly hope our understanding of the facts is wrong.

[2ndchance]

They give you 50% weekly if you don’t want that person to keep using bonus don’t keep giving them then say abuse that makes nonsense. Stop giving bones then that’s on them. No matter there rule you put a bonus in a account the person going to use it. They don’t know they can’t. Crazy!

[HedgeHog]

Why does it matter what OP's betting patterns were? No one is officially licensed as a professional sports bettor. That label is granted to players by individual books subjectively. Therefore, a player doesn't know if he's considered "non-recreational" by Book X until it happens. That's why it's okay for them to not accept future contracts, but they cannot retroactively void past contracts. That effectively gives them free roll power over all players. And in this case, not only did they retroactively void legitimate contracts, but they did so after allowing him to lose $4,685 worth of deposits to them. I guess he was considered "recreational" when he was losing, right?

This is MyCrookie level behavior we're witnessing here. Would love for SBR and/or Bovada to clarify things for us. I truly hope our understanding of the facts is wrong.

If the bets were legit then you're right it doesn't matter...he should be paid in full. However, I can't help thinking there's more to this case. I am easily up over 20k lifetime with Bovada. They don't allow me to get bonuses anymore and my limits are significantly reduced (I need approval if I want to place anything over $100). But they never took any of my legit winnings on some bogus "non-rec" clause.

[Sleepless]

Or questions regarding your betting pattern, may be key to why Bovada actually took your winnings. Avoiding this topic, makes you look suspicious IMO. I think that there is much more to this issue than you being a "pro" bettor. If it were my 12k in winnings, I'd be more forthcoming....unless I was making questionable wagers (i.e. heavily correlated parlays).

1.) Again, they directly said why they took my winnings. There is nothing to figure out. They already told us. They decided I'm a skilled player and I accepted the bonus that they offered me. According to them, that is a violation of their rules. I wasn't a skilled player when I was losing. Only when I won.


2.) If my bets lost do you think I would have been labeled as a skilled player and refunded my losses. They had ample opportunity to refuse my bets and they did not do so.

3.) If you make a "questionable" wager with someone (such as a "heavily correlated parlay"), it's up to them if they want to accept it or not. If they accept it then it's a bet. It's not ok to accept a bet and then if it wins, to assess if they accepted a good bet or not.

4.) I already answered what I bet on earlier in the thread. I made mostly straight bets. There were some parlays but nothing was correlated.

5.) I'm not the only one that this has happened to.

[HedgeHog]

Fair enough. If this is indeed a non-rec seizure, SBR cannot condone it.

[DontTailMe]

If the bets were legit then you're right it doesn't matter...he should be paid in full. However, I can't help thinking there's more to this case. I am easily up over 20k lifetime with Bovada. They don't allow me to get bonuses anymore and my limits are significantly reduced (I need approval if I want to place anything over $100). But they never took any of my legit winnings on some bogus "non-rec" clause.

Isn't the non-rec clause a new thing?

I'm up big on Bovada too and have been limited. I think another key statement in your post that you're overlooking is that they no longer offer bonuses to you. They DID offer a bonus to OP.

Who knows. Your suspcion about there being something else to the case might be right. But in those circumstances, we are accustomed to the sportsbook ccorrecting the record swiftly. What's going on here?

[Sleepless]

I don't know any more than what has been posted Fitz. One of he CR admin guys was looking after him.

Hey Optional, I haven't heard from the person who was looking into this from SBR for almost 2 weeks and I haven't received a response to my last few emails. Would you be able to look into where we stand with this please?

[Optional]

Hey Optional, I haven't heard from the person who was looking into this from SBR for almost 2 weeks and I haven't received a response to my last few emails. Would you be able to look into where we stand with this please?

I'll ping Matt.

[Crusherrr]

They better not pull this shit with me. I've run up a significant balance there finally. The last few times I ran up a big balance I dumped it at blackjack.

I guess the good thing about my blackjack losses is books welcome me with open arms. They let me kill them on sports because I give a lot of it back in casino.

I hope you get paid OP

[Fitz030808]

They better not pull this shit with me. I've run up a significant balance there finally. The last few times I ran up a big balance I dumped it at blackjack.

I guess the good thing about my blackjack losses is books welcome me with open arms. They let me kill them on sports because I give a lot of it back in casino.

I hope you get paid OP

That’s why this is so concerning. They’re dangling this great bonus program. But if you’re just going to be deemed “non rec”, it kills any incentive to post up there. I like to play poker and play pretty well. I also like to bet sports, not very well. I run up a big poker balance, hit a couple sports bets, and try and cash out...then get hammered with you’re a non rec....big problem and easy out for Bovada. I know SBR is on it, and looking forward to hearing more information as it comes available.

[Crusherrr]

That’s why this is so concerning. They’re dangling this great bonus program. But if you’re just going to be deemed “non rec”, it kills any incentive to post up there. I like to play poker and play pretty well. I also like to bet sports, not very well. I run up a big poker balance, hit a couple sports bets, and try and cash out...then get hammered with you’re a non rec....big problem and easy out for Bovada. I know SBR is on it, and looking forward to hearing more information as it comes available.

Yeah. Not good. Just hope the new bonus program actually continues and bad reports like this do not. I have very little reason to play with bovada without bonuses. If I'm playing poker on the network I use Ignition to keep it separate.

[Crusherrr]

Here is an interesting question for the degens who bet SIMS at Bovada......If the settings/sliders are always set on "rookie" then why would the same two teams playing in exactly the same conditions have a point spread/total that has been up to 4 pts difference in the spread and 7 pts difference in the total? Hmmmmmmmm.........can you say PRE-RECORDED?

Before you get on here and say the $$$ moved the lines I will say WRONG b/c those were the opening lines as they put them up at least 1 day prior to the game. Next excuse that any of Bovada's shills have for the discrepancy? #SHADY and now they are free rolling guys that take advantage of their "bitcoin exclusive" promotion? How does a book continue to finesse players and remain A+? Enquiring minds wanna know!!!!!

I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not. But there are many other reputable books that you can play and bet with. You've made countless negative posts about them and yet you keep betting with them. Maybe you should consider taking your money elsewhere.

[SBR Forum]

Optional, you hearing anything on this? Very interesting thread. With Bovada allowing accounts to be “bitcoin exclusive”, you get a 50% cash bonus, as far as I can tell, weekly. If there isn’t any clear circumstances, breaking max limits, past posting, etc...this is very concerning for those using this bonus system.

We're actively discussing the OP's situation with Bovada.

[Crusherrr]

Just in case you didn't see the OP of this thread........it wasn't me!!!!

That has nothing to do with my comment. Why continue betting with them if all you do is complain left and right?

[RedApples]

I'm not too worried about this situation. OP trying way too hard to justify every single angle. The story is being painted way too hard. I'd outline every example in this thread that believes me to trust the integrity of the story. The case being made is nothing more than that, a case being made to be paid. I'm not with it. Sorry. Good luck on getting paid though. I would love to hear the other side of the story and exactly what information Bovada has on you to not want it. Yes, I know your story already, so don't need to see for the 18th time 'what happened' in your eyes.

[nyplayer33]

I tried calling.bovada and cust svc never picks up

[JoeCool20]

Don't bet from these thieves. Bovada not only steals from clients, but they only pay 75 cents instead of 95 cents on a $1 bet on the banker in baccarat! (They also only pay $1.75 on a $2 bet instead of $1.90, and so on.) I emailed then years ago and said "Why are you stealing 20 cents from your clients on a $1 banker bet by paying it 75 cents instead of 95 cents? You don't steal $20 and only pay $75 on a $100 banker bet, so why steal 20 cents from clients on a $1 banker bet? This may mean nothing on ONE bet, but after you steal 20 cents a million times, then you have just cheated/stolen TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS from your clients that you don't deserve!"

They emailed me and said their site was for "recreational gambling." LOL Huh? What about the blatant stealing?

[JoeCool20]

Don't bet from these thieves. Bovada not only steals from clients, but they only pay 75 cents instead of 95 cents on a $1 bet on the banker in baccarat! (They also only pay $1.75 on a $2 bet instead of $1.90, and so on.) I emailed then years ago and said "Why are you stealing 20 cents from your clients on a $1 banker bet by paying it 75 cents instead of 95 cents? You don't steal $20 and only pay $75 on a $100 banker bet, so why steal 20 cents from clients on a $1 banker bet? This may mean nothing on ONE bet, but after you steal 20 cents a million times, then you have just cheated/stolen TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS from your clients that you don't deserve!"

They emailed me and said their site was for "recreational gambling." LOL Huh? What about the blatant stealing?

I just went and played there and they are STILL doing that! They are STILL stealing 20c and only paying 75c instead of 95c on a $1 baccarat bet! (Also still only paying $1.75 on a $2 bet instead of $1.90, and so on.) I've been doing this for 25 years and I have NEVER EVER seen this anywhere else except Bovada!
My gosh I noticed it 10 years ago! You KNOW by now there has been over TEN MILLION $1 banker bets by now! So that means they have cheated/stolen TWO MILLION DOLLARS from people by paying 20 cents less on a $1 banker bet! OMG!

Incredible blatant cheating/stealing by an A+ rated book!

[JoeCool20]

This is yet another example......glad you are a "pro" here b/c y'all seem to have more influence on SBR. Justify this Bovada folks!!

LOL Dude, If you knew me, then you'd know I kept on and on with them because Ijust couldn't believe the blatant-ness of the cheating/stealing in this instance with the baccarat!! if I remember correctly in one of their reply emails to me they said "We decided to go up a coin from a nickel." LOLOLOL!
I said "Well why the hell didn't you just go up ONE coin to a dime? That way you'd only be stealing 5c per $1 bet instead of 20 cents!!" LOL They finally just quit replying to me!

[DontTailMe]

I tried calling.bovada and cust svc never picks up

They aren't doing phone support during COVID-19. Use chat.

[HedgeHog]

This is yet another example......glad you are a "pro" here b/c y'all seem to have more influence on SBR. Justify this Bovada folks!!

LOL, Ant23. You have more than enough points to turn pro. Turn 3k of them and join the club. You'll forfeit the rest but they aren't doing you any good anyway.