5dimes cancels my NHL futures bets (AGAIN)

[spicyyyyy]

Also, one more note on this. I'm not trying to bet on Arizona (or any other team) cuz I love them more than life or anything. My interest in betting on them is squarely for EV purposes. So to say, "if you were TRULY interested", lol come on man...what does that even mean? I'm only supposed to bet at a worse price cuz i just want to root on my team (and help out the book to make sure they dont lose EV in the process)? please.

Honestly, I don't understand how this argument is the opinion of so many. In my experience gambling (except for like small stakes gambling with a close buddy or family member for fun) the objective is to make +EV decisions and try to take the other person's money. Did I think the line had value? Yea, no shit! That is why I bet it. Books afaik generally speaking have different models and systems that inevitably calculate prices and I assume those prices and the decisions they make to post the lines they do are more of a response to the wants and needs of that specific book, rather than the market. In gambling, its a zero sum game. I am trying to take your money, and you are trying to take mine. To cry wolf when you get beat/are on the wrong side of it (especially due to your own negligence) is absurd.

If I run a book and develop a model that I think is beating the market and then turns out im not, i'm going broke. and guess what? deservedly so!!!

[semibluff]

5Dimes have way too much history of posting bad lines for them to be rated A+. I don't have a problem with anyone betting a bad line. You know what you're doing and you know what can happen. If you get away with it - fine! I don't have a problem with a book cancelling a bet at a bad line. I don't have a problem with a book closing accounts of people who bet bad lines. I don't have any time for bitches that complain about being booted after repeatedly betting bad lines. If you behave like a bitch you'll be treated like a bitch.

[spicyyyyy]

If your definition of a "bitch" is someone who is already paying obscene amount of juice to play a wager and then doing their best to shop lines and get the best price for an event, then i would surely love to know what you classify the book as who just operates under an umbrella of autonomy and reserves the right to be negligent to any degree without recourse. what a world. if the shoe was on the other foot and YOU were the one negligent, the book would laugh you out the door if you tried to do anything remotely close to what 5Dimes is doing to its customers in this instance.

[Optional]

Honestly, I don't understand how this argument is the opinion of so many.

I think it is just more that people know what happens when you do it, and know how 5D treats it when they think you have done it multiple times.

There should be no errors posted at all, every bet accepted should be paid as struck, there should be no world hunger. But that's not how it is.

[dxp]

Also, one more note on this. I'm not trying to bet on Arizona (or any other team) cuz I love them more than life or anything. My interest in betting on them is squarely for EV purposes. So to say, "if you were TRULY interested", lol come on man...what does that even mean? I'm only supposed to bet at a worse price cuz i just want to root on my team (and help out the book to make sure they dont lose EV in the process)? please.

i meant "truly interested" as in; if you were 100% trying to make that wager because you liked the odds and situation, not because you were trying to catch them napping on a possible mistake. HUGE difference. your earlier wagers were the former, but the +22500 was the latter.

you hopped on a bad line that jumped like +16000. you tried to stiff the book in what you describe as "i am trying to take your money." yet you bitch when the book decided to stiff you, as if the "taking your money" part doesn't apply to them. the difference is, at least they cancel well in advance and give you your wager back. you would have taken like 60k of their money without blinking if you won.

their line management is terrible at best. but at the same time you're consistently attacking their clear errors and trying to go jackpot on futures. as it was already said.. if you can get away with it, good for you. if not, don't complain about the punishment.

[DontTailMe]

For one, OP said his last bet was purposely on another bad line to prove a point. So argue with him that he did not bet an obvious error if you want.

I think the reaction from 5dimes shows he is correct, and you are wrong.

The final bet where he admits to making a bad bet to prove a point, to me, does not prove that his original bets were bad. It shows that he was pissed off.

I do think it's very possible that OP knew that the lines were off a bit. But we aren't talking about this issue in a vacuum here. 5Dimes consistently has this problem. And again, I'm speaking from experience where I've been scolded for betting bad lines which were not obvious by any reasonable measure.

If they want to decide whatever odds they regret after the fact, then fine, take the remedy that every other book in the industry uses - void the wager. But everything else they put on the customer is way over the top.

[semibluff]

If your definition of a "bitch" is someone who is already paying obscene amount of juice to play a wager and then doing their best to shop lines and get the best price for an event, then i would surely love to know what you classify the book as who just operates under an umbrella of autonomy and reserves the right to be negligent to any degree without recourse. what a world. if the shoe was on the other foot and YOU were the one negligent, the book would laugh you out the door if you tried to do anything remotely close to what 5Dimes is doing to its customers in this instance.

-140; +120 would be a normally juiced line. -160; +120 would be a lot of juice. You might see that level of juice on a props market. -200; +120 would be an obscene amount of juice, but if the rest of the market was -110; -110 then that +120 would still be a bad line regardless of whether the level of juice was obscene. The level of juice isn't relevant and it doesn't mitigate your actions.

I'm starting to think 5Dimes posts bad lines as a deliberate policy that would help them identify problem accounts before those account holders get 1 over on them. It's sort of like Bait Car - and very few people feel sorry for those who get caught on Bait Car.

[spicyyyyy]

If a book (business) is stupid enough to post a mispriced line, they deserve to get fleeced as far as i am concerned. If i walk into a casino and play craps or blackjack completely drunk and just piss off a bunch of money, that is my own fault and i deserve to get fleeced as well. works both ways. difference here is, casino/book has autonomy and has unilateral protection against anything they do wrong (mistake or not). customer NEVER does.

-140; +120 would be a normally juiced line. -160; +120 would be a lot of juice. You might see that level of juice on a props market. -200; +120 would be an obscene amount of juice, but if the rest of the market was -110; -110 then that +120 would still be a bad line regardless of whether the level of juice was obscene. The level of juice isn't relevant and it doesn't mitigate your actions.

I'm starting to think 5Dimes posts bad lines as a deliberate policy that would help them identify problem accounts before those account holders get 1 over on them. It's sort of like Bait Car - and very few people feel sorry for those who get caught on Bait Car.

[icon]

If a book (business) is stupid enough to post a mispriced line, they deserve to get fleeced as far as i am concerned. If i walk into a casino and play craps or blackjack completely drunk and just piss off a bunch of money, that is my own fault and i deserve to get fleeced as well. works both ways. difference here is, casino/book has autonomy and has unilateral protection against anything they do wrong (mistake or not). customer NEVER does.

I think most people would agree with what you're saying. If players make a mistake the book usually won't cancel a wager and books should be responsible for their errors as well.

HOWEVER, it is important to point out that this is not how it actually works in the offshore world and punters need to remember this.

[ace7550]

If a book (business) is stupid enough to post a mispriced line, they deserve to get fleeced as far as i am concerned. If i walk into a casino and play craps or blackjack completely drunk and just piss off a bunch of money, that is my own fault and i deserve to get fleeced as well. works both ways. difference here is, casino/book has autonomy and has unilateral protection against anything they do wrong (mistake or not). customer NEVER does.

It is certainly true that the offshore books hold all the cards and we hold none. Actually our only recourse when something shady happens is to come on SBR and tell our story. Sometimes SBR, especially Opti, are able to help.
This brings up an old argument. What constitutes a bad line? There is a pretty significant amount of grey area.
I can tell you that I have been shopping political lines over the last month and there are some huge differences from book to book on the big underdogs. I wouldn't call these differences bad lines.
Spicy, at the end of the day you and 5D clearly do not see eye to eye. There are a lot of great books out there. Just let it go and move on.

[Optional]

The final bet where he admits to making a bad bet to prove a point, to me, does not prove that his original bets were bad. It shows that he was pissed off.

I did not say it did. YOU posted that he was punished for simply making sound betting decisions.

I asked you "Is it really making sound betting decisions?"

So far you have come at me three times from any angle, apart from responding to the question about what you brought up.

[terpkeg]

This is not an obvious line error. Futures vary widely between books. The hold id ridiculous a lot of places. 5dimes I line error is adding a zero on accident, or flipping a +/-. It can't be used everytime you are a bad bookmaker. Does the customer get to make "mistakes"? Generally not. All bets final. The yotes won't even make the playoffs. I probably should be 200 to 1.

[Barrakuda]

I'm starting to think 5Dimes posts bad lines as a deliberate policy that would help them identify problem accounts before those account holders get 1 over on them. It's sort of like Bait Car - and very few people feel sorry for those who get caught on Bait Car.

Nah. 5D is legitimately that incompetent. I've seen it consistently over 20 years.

[pologq]

agree with ace. too many other options.

[spicyyyyy]

what other options are available in all honesty (in US i mean)? Bookmaker I can get decent action, but bovada caps me all over the place and never lets you win more than like 5, maybe 10k on a futures bet.

agree with ace. too many other options.

[ace7550]

what other options are available in all honesty (in US i mean)? Bookmaker I can get decent action, but bovada caps me all over the place and never lets you win more than like 5, maybe 10k on a futures bet.

Heritage, BOL, Youwager, Intertops are some A's and A+'s I use all the time. I also use BM. If none of these guys offer what you want then the action you want just might not be available.

[spicyyyyy]

BOL has scammed me before and Heritage limits are a joke, at least on futures. They wont even let you win more than a few hundred bucks at a time much less bet that much.

I will check out youwager and intertops but none of these books you listed have any amount of real liquidity like BM does.

Heritage, BOL, Youwager, Intertops are some A's and A+'s I use all the time. I also use BM. If none of these guys offer what you want then the action you want just might not be available.

[ace7550]

BOL has scammed me before and Heritage limits are a joke, at least on futures. They wont even let you win more than a few hundred bucks at a time much less bet that much.

I will check out youwager and intertops but none of these books you listed have any amount of real liquidity like BM does.

I basically listed the best offshore books there are. If none of the best books out there meet your needs then...

[spicyyyyy]

haha, all good. i appreciate it nonetheless. I did a bunch of research on this a while back so i was more just following up to make sure of something available i wasn't aware of. thanks

I basically listed the best offshore books there are. If none of the best books out there meet your needs then...

[semibluff]

Nah. 5D is legitimately that incompetent. I've seen it consistently over 20 years.

This isn't an industry in which the incompetent survive and thrive. If 5Dimes has done this for as long as you say then it's a deliberate policy that works for them.

[milwaukee mike]

I think it is just more that people know what happens when you do it, and know how 5D treats it when they think you have done it multiple times.

There should be no errors posted at all, every bet accepted should be paid as struck, there should be no world hunger. But that's not how it is.

elephants don't starve to death. why? because they eat grass and tree bark, which grows back... if a human is starving and too dumb to find something to eat then they deserve to starve, like any other animal in the animal kingdom

[DontTailMe]

I did not say it did. YOU posted that he was punished for simply making sound betting decisions.

I asked you "Is it really making sound betting decisions?"

So far you have come at me three times from any angle, apart from responding to the question about what you brought up.

I'm not "coming at" you. I'm just stating my opinion. Sorry if I didn't address the exact point that you wanted to see addressed.

The reason I didn't answer that question is because I'd need to know what was in his mind. Betting those odds are certainly defensible. If, on the other hand, the believed they were bad lines then obviously he's not making sound betting decisions, unless he was perfectly okay with lighting his 5Dimes account on fire.

[DontTailMe]

BOL has scammed me before and Heritage limits are a joke, at least on futures. They wont even let you win more than a few hundred bucks at a time much less bet that much.

I will check out youwager and intertops but none of these books you listed have any amount of real liquidity like BM does.

If you're looking for high limits on futures, then you want Bookmaker or BOL.

BOL is not a "scam" book, so I don't know what happened with you but it's probably something that could have been worked out somehow if they were truly in the wrong.

[Barrakuda]

This isn't an industry in which the incompetent survive and thrive. If 5Dimes has done this for as long as you say then it's a deliberate policy that works for them.

lol. quite the opposite. there's zero risk to them to hire incompetent people, bc they check all futs wins before every payout. It's amazing how poorly you can run a business when you are part of an oligarchy.

also, clearly you don't have much experience with 5D and how they move lines.

[dxp]

elephants don't starve to death. why? because they eat grass and tree bark, which grows back... if a human is starving and too dumb to find something to eat then they deserve to starve, like any other animal in the animal kingdom

this is a really odd post. elephants most certainly do starve to death. they also die of dehydration. it's up to the matriarch to guide the herd to water and trees when the land becomes stripped, dried up and in drought. sometimes they do not make it. there are tons of other animals that cannot access their food source when needed and perish.

why would a 5 year old kid in a drought filled type country born into poor conditions deserve to starve? people under communist control with no freedom, forced into certain conditions are just idiots who deserve to die?

[ace7550]

If you're looking for high limits on futures, then you want Bookmaker or BOL.

BOL is not a "scam" book, so I don't know what happened with you but it's probably something that could have been worked out somehow if they were truly in the wrong.

BOL is definitely not a scam book. If I could only play at one book I would choose BOL.

[scottgodson1985]

if you're sticking up for 5d here, you're clueless

[pretentiousGuy]

Tony lives on

[TommieGunshot]

There should be no errors posted at all, every bet accepted should be paid as struck, there should be no world hunger. But that's not how it is.

Any sportsbook that puts up this many errors (both obvious and not-so-obvious) should not be rated A+. But that's not how it is, either. Between world hunger, honoring bets, dishonest ratings, at least one of those problems is very easy to fix.

[pologq]

Any sportsbook that puts up this many errors (both obvious and not-so-obvious) should not be rated A+. But that's not how it is, either. Between world hunger, honoring bets, dishonest ratings, at least one of those problems is very easy to fix.

i am with you about 5 dimes not being A+ with an issue like this.

[fastlane]

you explained that one really well! thanks for touching on the points!

17 posts, every one outside of this thread about free play. position makes sense

so you looked at my history but then lie about it?

troll or shill? your takes aren't ones from a normal sports bettor.