5dimes cancels my NHL futures bets (AGAIN)

spicyyyyy · 03-05-20, 10:19 AM

LOL. update: they just cancelled my west bet. "Reason: Clear line error, the correct line had to be +1850"

Shameful that I didn't know the market price for Arizona west is EXACTLY +1850. That is so obvious I don't know how i could have possibly not known that!!!! F this place.

ace7550 · 03-05-20, 11:36 AM

Easy solution. Stop playing there. Lots of other great options.

dxp · 03-05-20, 01:02 PM

you know 5dimes is absolutely garbage with these line shifts. BUT, you also know that +22500 is nowhere near where it should be. the coyotes are 5-3 in their last 8, are tied with the jets and nucks for the last wild card spot and have been pretty consistent all year outside of one bad stretch.

spicyyyyy · 03-05-20, 01:35 PM

lol dude they had a stretch in Jan/Feb where they lost 12 of 15 games. what are you talking about consistent all year? they went from 1st in the division to like 5 points out of the wild card in 6 weeks.

Originally posted by dxp

you know 5dimes is absolutely garbage with these line shifts. BUT, you also know that +22500 is nowhere near where it should be. the coyotes are 5-3 in their last 8, are tied with the jets and nucks for the last wild card spot and have been pretty consistent all year outside of one bad stretch.

jtoler · 03-05-20, 01:38 PM

they are known for having the best odds but when u bet it well

spicyyyyy · 03-05-20, 01:47 PM

5Dimes has officially closed my account (please see OG post). mods if possible, please change the title of the thread to the text in the title line of 1st post. ty.

DroopyDog · 03-05-20, 01:49 PM

Instead of talking about bad stretches or playoff spots, why not post some odds from other books as evidence that the line is in fact comparable to other places?

Maybe there is a reason you havent

spicyyyyy · 03-05-20, 01:54 PM

Have no problem addressing this. Line at other books fluctuates from +4000 to as high as maybe +6500/7000 from what ive seen over the past few days. 5Dimes had the best line I saw by far, so i bet it. 5Dimes has a choice to post a line and I as a customer have a choice to bet it or not. I see no problem with this. 5Dimes offering a shit line trying to exploit customers/balance their action is no different than a customer trying to exploit a book for the same reasons.

Originally posted by DroopyDog

Instead of talking about bad stretches or playoff spots, why not post some odds from other books as evidence that the line is in fact comparable to other places?

Maybe there is a reason you havent

DontTailMe · 03-05-20, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by spicyyyyy

Have no problem addressing this. Line at other books fluctuates from +4000 to as high as maybe +6500/7000 from what ive seen over the past few days. 5Dimes had the best line I saw by far, so i bet it. 5Dimes has a choice to post a line and I as a customer have a choice to bet it or not. I see no problem with this. 5Dimes offering a shit line trying to exploit customers/balance their action is no different than a customer trying to exploit a book for the same reasons.

Seeing different books have the same season future line as far apart as +7000 and +22500 is very common. I see it all the time, and that's why you shop around. That's the difference between 1.41% and 0.44% implied probability. It's perfectly reasonable for 2 people/models to have assessments which are that different - even more so.

And it shouldn't be the players responsibility to police for bad lines (especially when, as illustrated above, they aren't even obviously bad!!). But unfortunately, we know that 5Dimes has made this ridiculous position their policy, so we have to live with it if we want to play there.

spicyyyyy · 03-05-20, 02:11 PM

louder for people in the back please!!!!! <3

Originally posted by DontTailMe

Seeing different books have the same season future line as far apart as +7000 and +22500 is very common. I see it all the time, and that's why you shop around. That's the difference between 1.41% and 0.44% implied probability. It's perfectly reasonable for 2 people/models to have assessments which are that different - even more so.

And it shouldn't be the players responsibility to police for bad lines (especially when, as illustrated above, they aren't even that obviously bad). But unfortunately, we know that 5Dimes has made this ridiculous position their policy, so we have to live with it if we want to play there.

ace7550 · 03-05-20, 05:30 PM

You're in the right here Spicy, but just don't play there anymore. I stopped playing there. Tons of other good options.

im over here now · 03-05-20, 05:45 PM

Why would anyone who lives in a state where betting is legal play anywhere else?

A+ books are A+ until there not.. Why take the chance of being fcked when it can be avoided? And those pending bets... Good luck with that.. Your going to be free rolled

temple2010 · 03-05-20, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by im over here now

Why would anyone who lives in a state where betting is legal play anywhere else?

A+ books are A+ until there not.. Why take the chance of being fcked when it can be avoided? And those pending bets... Good luck with that.. Your going to be free rolled

Are you serious about this question?? Get a clue, man!

hehfest · 03-05-20, 07:59 PM

Curious to know do you have 35K spread out on multiple teams? How many? Are you playing some sort of hedge game betting games in the playoffs? Sounds interesting anyway. Thought I'd ask.

spicyyyyy · 03-05-20, 10:02 PM

not sure if you're referring to me or not here, but where I live there are no books/casinos with books.

Originally posted by im over here now

Why would anyone who lives in a state where betting is legal play anywhere else?

A+ books are A+ until there not.. Why take the chance of being fcked when it can be avoided? And those pending bets... Good luck with that.. Your going to be free rolled

Barrakuda · 03-06-20, 12:12 AM

Pretty much all books will do this. I just got screwed over on a "bad line" policy at Fairlay of all places. Apparently, their MM gets to offer whatever he wants, but if, after the fact, it's decided the odds were "incorrect," he gets to cancel..so much for free market exchange.

How long was your acct open at 5D? It's interesting that they were even allowing you to get off $100 at a time at 225-1. The fact that they kept manually adjusting and allowing rebets proves it's not an error. They just suck at what they do.

spicyyyyy · 03-06-20, 08:09 AM

I've had it open for around 6 months and bet both futures and regular games. yea, they had it posted @ 225/1 (max bet $100), then 200/1, 150/1, 100/1. They mentioned something to me in the chat that theoretically the "wrong line" could be posted for a year straight and if i bet it at any point it would be grounds for them to cancel my bets/close my account. The fact that he said that is mind blowing to me that a business is even capable of having a "bad line" up for a year straight but given what ive seen at 5Dimes over a few months it wouldn't shock me. They put up "bad lines"/lines by mistake so often, its insanity (especially if what you are saying about them doing everything manual is accurate).

Originally posted by Barrakuda

Pretty much all books will do this. I just got screwed over on a "bad line" policy at Fairlay of all places. Apparently, their MM gets to offer whatever he wants, but if, after the fact, it's decided the odds were "incorrect," he gets to cancel..so much for free market exchange.

How long was your acct open at 5D? It's interesting that they were even allowing you to get off $100 at a time at 225-1. The fact that they kept manually adjusting and allowing rebets proves it's not an error. They just suck at what they do.

pokerdevil · 03-06-20, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by DontTailMe

Seeing different books have the same season future line as far apart as +7000 and +22500 is very common. I see it all the time, and that's why you shop around. That's the difference between 1.41% and 0.44% implied probability. It's perfectly reasonable for 2 people/models to have assessments which are that different - even more so.
And it shouldn't be the players responsibility to police for bad lines (especially when, as illustrated above, they aren't even obviously bad!!). But unfortunately, we know that 5Dimes has made this ridiculous position their policy, so we have to live with it if we want to play there.

Yup. This is very common.

Futures markets are heavily juiced at some sites - MyBookie comes to mind - and not so much at others. So there isn't a consensus market price, especially on larger dogs.

On the heavy favorites, you'll generally see a similar line. I just checked the Milwaukee Bucks' championship odds at a few outs:

+180 at Sportsbook.ag
+225 at BetOnline
+225 at MyBookie

Now let's check an under-the-radar team. Oklahoma City Thunder

+5000 at BetOnline
+15000 at MyBookie
+20000 at Sportsbook.ag

If I slam the Thunder, should I get my bet cancelled at Sportsbook.ag? Come on guys.

spicyyyyy · 03-06-20, 10:14 AM

EXACTLY. criminal what has been done here by 5Dimes, but as others have said it is what it is at this point.

Originally posted by pokerdevil

Yup. This is very common.

Futures markets are heavily juiced at some sites - MyBookie comes to mind - and not so much at others. So there isn't a consensus market price, especially on larger dogs.

On the heavy favorites, you'll generally see a similar line. I just checked the Milwaukee Bucks' championship odds at a few outs:

+180 at Sportsbook.ag
+225 at BetOnline
+225 at MyBookie

Now let's check an under-the-radar team. Oklahoma City Thunder

+5000 at BetOnline
+15000 at MyBookie
+20000 at Sportsbook.ag

If I slam the Thunder, should I get my bet cancelled at Sportsbook.ag? Come on guys.

ace7550 · 03-06-20, 12:04 PM

A+ all the way...

fastlane · 03-06-20, 05:10 PM

I don't bet futures but this seems pretty unfair.

How are we supposed to have any idea what the correct price is. It seems like books don't even know the correct prices.

5dimes seems to have a lot of issues with posting incorrect lines. A+ books should have more accountability considering the rating.

DoctorStrong · 03-06-20, 05:21 PM

Arizona is not going to win the West

ace7550 · 03-06-20, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by DoctorStrong

Arizona is not going to win the West

Pretty sure Spicy will take that bet. You gotta give me 225-1 odds though

RedApples · 03-06-20, 05:48 PM

not surprised we are back here again, and not surprised that this was the outcome. hold exactly as i held last time. you are right, 5dimes made major mistakes and those are their fault. they also have the right to deny you action. seems like a solid decision by them to do that in your case, as you clearly would have the edge. it would suck for them to lose a customer because they can't manage a book properly, but thats not what this is at all... they don't want your exploitive action. you can hardly blame them.

fastlane · 03-06-20, 05:55 PM

Redapples sounds like you're on the books side of this game.

I think what 5dimes is doing here is shameful. You are too

RedApples · 03-06-20, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by fastlane

Redapples sounds like you're on the books side of this game.

I think what 5dimes is doing here is shameful. You are too

you explained that one really well! thanks for touching on the points!

17 posts, every one outside of this thread about free play. position makes sense

DontTailMe · 03-06-20, 07:55 PM

"Exploitive action". LOL

I'll never understand why someone here craps on another player for making sound betting decisions. Isn't that what we're all striving for?

spicyyyyy · 03-06-20, 08:57 PM

lol, you'd think so. apparently not. we're just here to try to break even and then any extra free time we have let the books know when we think they have a mispriced line just for free cuz we're nice. duh.

Originally posted by DontTailMe

"Exploitive action". LOL

I'll never understand why someone here craps on another player for making sound betting decisions. Isn't that what we're all striving for?

Optional · 03-06-20, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by DontTailMe

"Exploitive action". LOL

I'll never understand why someone here craps on another player for making sound betting decisions. Isn't that what we're all striving for?

Is it really making sound betting decisions? Taking obvious errors is setting yourself up to be free rolled at all books.

And betting a line you say yourself is another error right after having bets cancelled for it at 5dimes...

Sound betting decision really?

People get up in arms about this a lot, but most of those same people would not bet obvious errors on purpose, let alone do it over and again at 5dimes. We all know how that ends up around here.

DontTailMe · 03-07-20, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by Optional

Is it really making sound betting decisions? Taking obvious errors is setting yourself up to be free rolled at all books.

And betting a line you say yourself is another error right after having bets cancelled for it at 5dimes...

Sound betting decision really?

People get up in arms about this a lot, but most of those same people would not bet obvious errors on purpose, let alone do it over and again at 5dimes. We all know how that ends up around here.

If he had bet on an obviously bad line, I would 100% agree with your post.

But how are those obvious errors? We aren't talking about him betting on a +450 line that is -105 everywhere else. It's +22500 vs. +7000. As discussed upthread, that is an extremely common occurrence in futures because they're juiced to the gills, and mathematically, it's not even that large of a difference in the first place.

Yes, OP got pinched for this before, but how is he supposed to know which future odds are obvious and which odds are simply competitively priced BEFORE 5Dimes tells you? Are you suggesting that he just can't bet any future odds at 5Dimes which are competitive with the market? I've been scolded by them for this very same thing on lines that I had NO IDEA were "obviously bad" (hint: they weren't).

5Dimes can obviously do whatever they want with his account because that's their business, but we should be able to call them out for their ridiculous policies. They are the only book where we consistently have threads like this.

dxp · 03-07-20, 02:07 AM

both sides are clearly wrong, but one is worse than the other.

5dimes is a joke in the sense they'll cancel anything they feel has changed. if you're going to give out something at like +3100, then cancel it because you say it's an error and it's really +2700.. that's pathetic.

but this dude is also creeping to just take shots. he "saw value" in the +22500 line? yeah, no shit! he knows it was way off, which is why he bet it 3 more times at varying points.

i side with the bettor most of the time on these things, but not when you clearly know the sport and keep trying to pick off those obvious lines. arizona has the 3rd best goals against in the league and has been around the playoff bubble all season long. you don't jump +14000 because you lost a game with a month left in the season.

and that's the key, he saw that jump and busted a nut getting in as much as he could. if he was TRULY interested in just betting arizona, he would have sent customer service a quick email or hit them up on live chat to double check the odds because he was about to place a wager. the same goes for anyone else. it's a future, not a match that starts in 30 minutes. if you truly want it, double check and confirm the odds.

both sides seemed to get what they should here. 5dimes keeps getting exposed for their horrible lines/cancels. the dude got his account closed for constantly trying to pick off error lines.

Optional · 03-07-20, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by DontTailMe

If he had bet on an obviously bad line, I would 100% agree with your post.

But how are those obvious errors?

For one, OP said his last bet was purposely on another bad line to prove a point. So argue with him that he did not bet an obvious error if you want.

I think the reaction from 5dimes shows he is correct, and you are wrong.

spicyyyyy · 03-07-20, 10:29 AM

The last bet I made on arizona west +3500 was to prove a point that it was mispriced relative to their +4000 cup line, not that it was a "bad line" as a one off. In fact, if you are to estimate the market for arizona cup was +4000-7000, west +3500 would have been very close id imagine. It was my intention to just point out how much manual cherry picking 5Dimes was doing re: adjusting lines to the "correct" price. If there were SO CONFIDENT that arizona cup line had to be +4000, the very next thing you would do is adjust conference lines along with it because they're literally 1a/1b.

Originally posted by Optional

For one, OP said his last bet was purposely on another bad line to prove a point. So argue with him that he did not bet an obvious error if you want.

I think the reaction from 5dimes shows he is correct, and you are wrong.

spicyyyyy · 03-07-20, 10:34 AM

Honestly, I don't understand how this argument is the opinion of so many. In my experience gambling (except for like small stakes gambling with a close buddy or family member for fun) the objective is to make +EV decisions and try to take the other person's money. Did I think the line had value? Yea, no shit! That is why I bet it. Books afaik generally speaking have different models and systems that inevitably calculate prices and I assume those prices and the decisions they make to post the lines they do are more of a response to the wants and needs of that specific book, rather than the market. In gambling, its a zero sum game. I am trying to take your money, and you are trying to take mine. To cry wolf when you get beat/are on the wrong side of it (especially due to your own negligence) is absurd.

If I run a book and develop a model that I think is beating the market and then turns out im not, i'm going broke. and guess what? deservedly so!!!

Originally posted by dxp

both sides are clearly wrong, but one is worse than the other.

5dimes is a joke in the sense they'll cancel anything they feel has changed. if you're going to give out something at like +3100, then cancel it because you say it's an error and it's really +2700.. that's pathetic.

but this dude is also creeping to just take shots. he "saw value" in the +22500 line? yeah, no shit! he knows it was way off, which is why he bet it 3 more times at varying points.

i side with the bettor most of the time on these things, but not when you clearly know the sport and keep trying to pick off those obvious lines. arizona has the 3rd best goals against in the league and has been around the playoff bubble all season long. you don't jump +14000 because you lost a game with a month left in the season.

and that's the key, he saw that jump and busted a nut getting in as much as he could. if he was TRULY interested in just betting arizona, he would have sent customer service a quick email or hit them up on live chat to double check the odds because he was about to place a wager. the same goes for anyone else. it's a future, not a match that starts in 30 minutes. if you truly want it, double check and confirm the odds.

both sides seemed to get what they should here. 5dimes keeps getting exposed for their horrible lines/cancels. the dude got his account closed for constantly trying to pick off error lines.