Pinnacle issue, they scammed me!

[JoeCool20]

JoeCool is out to lunch. It's the same if you have a total bet in a soccer match with two legs and they play into extra time (not added time) to determine a winner. When a team scores in extra time, that goal counts towards the total for Pinnacle (but not for some other sites like WillHill).

Example:

Real Madrid vs. Manchester United (UEFA)

First leg: Real Madrid 2-1

Second leg: Man U 2-1

They play extra time because the overall match is tied 3-3 even though the second leg was only 2-1. This "overtime" counts for Pinnacle. So if you had an O/U of 3.5 and either team scored in extra time, unders would lose because the final score would be 3-1 or 2-2 for a total of 4 goals. OP should know this as they're an arber and so rule knowledge is paramount to winning. I would have also made some test bets for a couple bucks to determine if they even follow their own rules. Once you have precedence for how they handle different nuanced outcomes, you can go from there confidently.

LOL talk about "out to lunch"!!! Dude you just made a post about a TOTALS bet!! Are you joking or serious?

Who the fuk said anything about a totals bet? Stop being ridiculous!! We are talking about a MONEYLINE bet!

Not a TOTALS bet! AND he won the game by 2 points! So therefore he wins his moneyline bet!

[moojoo]

JoeCool is out to lunch. It's the same if you have a total bet in a soccer match with two legs and they play into extra time (not added time) to determine a winner. When a team scores in extra time, that goal counts towards the total for Pinnacle (but not for some other sites like WillHill).
Example:

Real Madrid vs. Manchester United (UEFA)

First leg: Real Madrid 2-1

Second leg: Man U 2-1

They play extra time because the overall match is tied 3-3 even though the second leg was only 2-1. This "overtime" counts for Pinnacle. So if you had an O/U of 3.5 and either team scored in extra time, unders would lose because the final score would be 3-1 or 2-2 for a total of 4 goals. OP should know this as they're an arber and so rule knowledge is paramount to winning. I would have also made some test bets for a couple bucks to determine if they even follow their own rules. Once you have precedence for how they handle different nuanced outcomes, you can go from there confidently.

Any example when this rule was applied?
Screenshot of betting settled bet slip.

[cashin81]

JoeCool is out to lunch. It's the same if you have a total bet in a soccer match with two legs and they play into extra time (not added time) to determine a winner. When a team scores in extra time, that goal counts towards the total for Pinnacle (but not for some other sites like WillHill).

Example:

Real Madrid vs. Manchester United (UEFA)

First leg: Real Madrid 2-1

Second leg: Man U 2-1

They play extra time because the overall match is tied 3-3 even though the second leg was only 2-1. This "overtime" counts for Pinnacle. So if you had an O/U of 3.5 and either team scored in extra time, unders would lose because the final score would be 3-1 or 2-2 for a total of 4 goals. OP should know this as they're an arber and so rule knowledge is paramount to winning. I would have also made some test bets for a couple bucks to determine if they even follow their own rules. Once you have precedence for how they handle different nuanced outcomes, you can go from there confidently.

if anyone lost that under, they would have a right to complain.

[JoeCool20]

As a professional, you should be reading the rules before you bet - especially since you claim to be a professional arb, completely understanding the rules to how your bets are made would be a key thing to know - as a professional.

Condescending rants and messages will not help your situation here.

They are not incorrect, it's just a quirk in the rules. Basketball 2leg playoff system isn't as defined as soccer is for gambling purposes, so we run into these issues. That's why I always look at the wager definitions before I make a bet on a sport i don't normally bet with a book.

OK then, did the "wager definitions" on this guys moneyline bet say:

"Even though we are saying this is a moneyline bet, please be advised that you have
to win this bet in regulation by SOME OTHER margin than 2 points, or you really didn't win yet!" LOL



OF COURSE IT DIDN'T!!

[JoeCool20]

Any example when this rule was applied?
Screenshot of betting settled bet slip.

if anyone lost that under, they would have a right to complain.

LOL the dude is either looney tunes or joking! He just made a post about a TOTALS bet on a MONEYLINE thread!!

Who the fuk said anything about a totals bet? We are talking about a MONEYLINE bet!

Not a TOTALS bet! AND the dude won the game by 2 points! So therefore he wins his moneyline bet!

[Alfa1234]

This thread is becoming ridiculous. The rules state overtime counts. There was overtime. Nothing else matters and you can whinge about it all you want, it was graded correctly according to the rules written. Period. Nothing else matters. Bad rule? Yes. Should it be changed? Yes. That does not change the fact that this bet was graded correctly.

[lonnie55]

JoeCool is out to lunch. It's the same if you have a total bet in a soccer match with two legs and they play into extra time (not added time) to determine a winner. When a team scores in extra time, that goal counts towards the total for Pinnacle (but not for some other sites like WillHill).

Example:

Real Madrid vs. Manchester United (UEFA)

First leg: Real Madrid 2-1

Second leg: Man U 2-1

They play extra time because the overall match is tied 3-3 even though the second leg was only 2-1. This "overtime" counts for Pinnacle. So if you had an O/U of 3.5 and either team scored in extra time, unders would lose because the final score would be 3-1 or 2-2 for a total of 4 goals. OP should know this as they're an arber and so rule knowledge is paramount to winning. I would have also made some test bets for a couple bucks to determine if they even follow their own rules. Once you have precedence for how they handle different nuanced outcomes, you can go from there confidently.

Wtf?! This is BS

A total bet in soccer NEVER includes the extra time unless it says explicitly (but this is very very rare)

Where did you get that information from?

[cashin81]

This thread is becoming ridiculous. The rules state overtime counts. There was overtime. Nothing else matters and you can whinge about it all you want, it was graded correctly according to the rules written. Period. Nothing else matters. Bad rule? Yes. Should it be changed? Yes. That does not change the fact that this bet was graded correctly.

bet was graded correctly because of a bad rule.

nice.

[Alfa1234]

Wtf?! This is BS

A total bet in soccer NEVER includes the extra time unless it says explicitly (but this is very very rare)

Where did you get that information from?

Indeed 100% bullshit, overtime does not count in soccer.

Quote from Pinnacle soccer rules:

"Wagers will be decided on games with two halves scheduled for 45 minutes each and any time the referee adds to compensate for injuries and other stoppages. It does not include periods of extra time nor penalty shootouts. "

[Limited]

bet was graded correctly because of a bad rule.

It is more a lack of special rules addressing 2 leg playoff system.

[icon]

bet was graded correctly because of a bad rule.

nice.

The rules are easily found and its the player that needs to know the rules before placing a wager. Most if not everyone agrees the rules could or should be changed to be more fair to the player but as written Pinnacle did nothing improper.

Instead of just being outraged people need to know the facts.

I stopped playing many props because of the way the rules are written regarding certain situations.

[JoeCool20]

This thread is becoming ridiculous. The rules state overtime counts. There was overtime. Nothing else matters and you can whinge about it all you want, it was graded correctly according to the rules written. Period. Nothing else matters. Bad rule? Yes. Should it be changed? Yes. That does not change the fact that this bet was graded correctly.

LOL THE GAME DID NOT GO INTO OVERTIME BECAUSE OF A TIE SCORE!

ONE OF THE TEAMS WON IN REGULATION BY 2 POINTS!

THEN THEY PLAYED MORE TO SEE WHO WOULD ADVANCE TO THE NEXT ROUND!

Please stop quoting the overtime rules and go show me a "rule" that says you only win a moneyline bet

IF your team wins the game in regulation by ANY number of points BESIDES 2 points! LOL You can't find it!

[JoeCool20]

What is a Moneyline bet? – Help Center
https://help.sportsinteraction.com › en-us › articles › 217387817-What-is-a...

Mar 10, 2019 - A moneyline bet is on who will win the game.


He bet a MONEYLINE bet on who would win the game, and his team won the game by 2 points! Case closed! Pay the man his winning bet!

[Alfa1234]

LOL THE GAME DID NOT GO INTO OVERTIME!

"The Polish hosts prevailed 85-83 over the Kosovo champions after a nail-biting battle that went to double overtime and in which the pendulum could have swung in the other direction. "

[icon]

"The Polish hosts prevailed 85-83 over the Kosovo champions after a nail-biting battle that went to double overtime and in which the pendulum could have swung in the other direction. "

Joe is a special kind of poster.

[JoeCool20]

Overtime (sports) - Wikipedia

Overtime (sports) ... Overtime or extra time is an additional period of play to bring a game to a decision and avoid declaring the match a tie or draw where the scores are the same.


The game did not go into overtime! They played more to see who ADVANCED to the next round!

One of the teams won the game in regulation by 2 points!!

So there is a clear moneyline winner right then! And you know it unless you are being stupid!

[cashin81]

The rules are easily found and its the player that needs to know the rules before placing a wager. Most if not everyone agrees the rules could or should be changed to be more fair to the player but as written Pinnacle did nothing improper.

Instead of just being outraged people need to know the facts.

I stopped playing many props because of the way the rules are written regarding certain situations.

If most people agree the rule should be changed, and most books dont pay out this way - then the player has the right to complain.

Props are different, moneyline is something you dont have to question or look into specifics.

[JoeCool20]

Right!

[JoeCool20]

If most people agree the rule should be changed, and most books dont pay out this way - then the player has the right to complain.

Props are different, moneyline is something you dont have to question or look into specifics.

Right!! MONEYLINE is easy as hell! If you win the game, you win the bet! And his team won by 2 points!!


Go show me a "rule" that says you only win a moneyline bet

IF your team wins the game in regulation by ANY number of points BESIDES 2 points! LOL They can't find it!

Because there is no such rule that says you only win a moneyline bet if you win by

some margin other than 2 points! LOL We all know that! A few people are just being obtuse!

[JoeCool20]

LOL I don't give a shit if they are STILL PLAYING RIGHT NOW to decide who advances!

The moneyline bet was won as soon as they won the game in regulation by 2 points! And these kids KNOW that!

They are just being obtuse!!

[JoeCool20]

"The Polish hosts prevailed 85-83 over the Kosovo champions after a nail-biting battle that went to double overtime and in which the pendulum could have swung in the other direction. "

Joe is a special kind of poster.

LOL THE GAME DID NOT GO INTO OVERTIME BECAUSE OF A TIE SCORE TO SEE WHO THE WINNER WAS!

ONE OF THE TEAMS WON IN REGULATION BY 2 POINTS! SO THE MONEYLINE BET IS OVER RIGHT THEN!

THEN THEY PLAYED MORE TO SEE WHO WOULD ADVANCE TO THE NEXT ROUND!

THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MONEYLINE BET! HE ALREADY WON THAT BET WHEN HE WON THE GAME

IN REGULATION BY 2 POINTS!!


You both know this, so stop being ridiculous!

[fried cheese]

Right!! MONEYLINE is easy as hell! If you win the game, you win the bet! And his team won by 2 points!!


Go show me a "rule" that says you only win a moneyline bet

IF your team wins the game in regulation by ANY number of points BESIDES 2 points! LOL They can't find it!

Because there is no such rule that says you only win a moneyline bet if you win by

some margin other than 2 points! LOL We all know that! A few people are just being obtuse!

lol the game he bet on did have that rule though. they didnt win the game because they had to keep playing until the result was anything but them winning by 2.

how would they determine moneyline bets for football if the nfl changed the rules to say that if any team is ahead by 4 at the end of regulation they lose the game?

[DontTailMe]

If most people agree the rule should be changed, and most books dont pay out this way - then the player has the right to complain.

Sure, they have a right to complain. But they don't have a right to a reversal from loss to win. Maybe they can have an effect on the rule being clarified to cover exception cases such as this in the future. But you cannot go back and change the rules which were published and available for everyone to read before entering into a contract with the bookie.

[JoeCool20]

lol the game he bet on did have that rule though. they didnt win the game because they had to keep playing until the result was anything but them winning by 2.

how would they determine moneyline bets for football if the nfl changed the rules to say that if any team is ahead by 4 at the end of regulation they lose the game?

Exactly right! Pinnacle never stated in the bet terms that he had to win by any margin besides 2! That's stupid!

There is no such rule that says you have to win by something other than 2 points! Or 4 either!


Like your NFL example, you don't lose the moneyline bet if you are ahead by 4 points when the game ends!

You WIN the moneyline bet because you won the game!!


The "margin" of victory doesn't make a flying fuk on a moneyline bet! And we ALL know it!

Pinnacle made a mistake by not paying a moneyline bet that we all know won by 2 points at the end of the game!

Who the fuk cares what the teams do AFTER one team wins the game by 2 points?

It certainly wouldn't/doesn't affect the moneyline bet! He won that bet by two points!

[JoeCool20]

Sure, they have a right to complain. But they don't have a right to a reversal from loss to win. Maybe they can have an effect on the rule being clarified to cover exception cases such as this in the future. But you cannot go back and change the rules which were published and available for everyone to read before entering into a contract with the bookie.

LOL What the fuk "rule" are you talking about that says you don't win a moneyline bet if your team wins

the game by 2 points in regulation? LOL There is no such rule as that! And you know there isn't!!

What is a Moneyline bet? – Help Center
https://help.sportsinteraction.com › en-us › articles › 217387817-What-is-a...

Mar 10, 2019 - A moneyline bet is on who will win the game.

AND THEY WON THE GAME BY TWO POINTS IN REGULATION!

A MONEYLINE BET IS OVER AFTER A TEAM WINS IN REGULATION!



Go show me a "rule" that says you only win a moneyline bet IF your team wins the game

in regulation by ANY number of points BESIDES 2 points! LOL You can't find that rule and you never will.

Because there is no such rule that says you only win a moneyline bet if you win by

some margin other than 2 points! LOL We all know that! A few people are just being obtuse!

[cashin81]

"if the second leg is not tied but OT is played due to each team WINNING one game - then OT will not count"

thats from ladbrokes,

"in the event that a match does not finish in a tie, but OT is played for qualification purposes - the markets will be settled according to the result at the end of regular time"

thats from betfair.


so thats 3 big books (willhill) settling the way the OP thinks it should be.

[piterp]

The Problem here is how understand word overtime in this match

In my opinion- it was not draw in regular time so overtime rules should not apply this "additional overtime" should be settled as qualification bet not like typical overtime but pinnacle system not recognize difference

[DontTailMe]

"if the second leg is not tied but OT is played due to each team WINNING one game - then OT will not count"

thats from ladbrokes,

"in the event that a match does not finish in a tie, but OT is played for qualification purposes - the markets will be settled according to the result at the end of regular time"

thats from betfair.


so thats 3 big books (willhill) settling the way the OP thinks it should be.

That’s great. And if Pinnacle had that same stipulation in their rules then they should grade the same way. But they don’t. Are you suggesting we give books the freedom to ignore published rules when they grade? I hope not. Yikes.

[piterp]

its freedom because they can graded this bet how they like without specific rules

[DontTailMe]

There is a rule in place covering this. OT counts. The absence of exception case language doesn’t mean they get to invent exception case language. They just defer to the rule which is there on the books. A literal reading of the rules is always correct.

[piterp]

you right -but is not definition of overtime for pinnacle so people can read this in different ways

[DontTailMe]

It's not the definition of overtime or extra time that people are accustomed to, but it is indeed extra time.

https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/uefaorg/Regulations/02/55/82/79/2558279_DOWNLOAD.pdf

[piterp]

Probably source of this problem is wording .because Fiba use words overtime pinnacle treat it as overtime-
right name for this should be extra time and it will be avoid all confusion.

Author need ask pinnacle why overtime rules still apply if event was ended not in draw

[Optional]

its freedom because they can graded this bet how they like without specific rules

Please tell me how "they can graded this bet how they like"???

When this rule is in play: "Any wager on the game or the 2nd half will include any overtime that may occur."

[piterp]

Simple- it depends of their definition of overtime so 2 options
1-not draw results so not overtime-> bet win
2- extra time called overtime is counted ->bet lose