Best countries to live in for sports betting

[lonnie55]

Grey area meaning missing regulation

Not necessarily. For example, the question if online gambling is legal or illegal at my place is a total grey area ALTHOUGH there is a law that says online betting is prohibited. So why is it a grey area? Because enforcement authorities don't take any measures against people who participate in online gambling. They fear that banning gambling providers that are licensed in other EU countries could break EU law. There is only one case where a lower court confiscated the Black Jack winnings of a guy but a higher court quashed that verdict later saying that German law can not be applied for a book that is licensed in another country: https://www.casinoonline.de/nachrich...ler-frei-6101/ (google translate works fine BTW)

[HeeeHAWWWW]

But if you just rob a bank once, and don't primarily derive income from bank robbery in general, it's not necessarily taxable!

(seriously)

I'm sure the threat of changing tax assessments has deterred many a bank robber :-)

[Optional]

generally speaking illegal activity can't be taxed.

It's definitely taxable in Australia.

Although the interesting thing about the rules is you only have to declare it if your criminal activity is regular and meets the broad definition of business activity.

As in the case of an illegal bookmaker.

But if you just rob a bank once, and don't primarily derive income from bank robbery in general, it's not necessarily taxable!

(seriously)

https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/document?DocID=TXR/TR9325/NAT/ATO/00001&PiT=99991231235958

[Limited]

How is this not a grey area? There is no clear law. Some authorities say this, others that. And in the end you do not even know if a court could overrule the authority.

Grey area meaning missing regulation (like IE ICOs in Krypto in 2017). Over-regulation is another problem, like I said above. Court in a normal rule of law country always provides a legal protection. You must have that even in the constitution.

Regarding the article, cant comment single case, I'm also not so good in German but generally speaking illegal activity can't be taxed. However if you cant explain how you have earned your income, you'll probably have to pay the high % of tax. But I don't know enough German legislation, so could be that u have some weird cases in the court.

[lonnie55]

@lonnie55

Still not a grey area

How is this not a grey area? There is no clear law. Some authorities say this, others that. And in the end you do not even know if a court could overrule the authority.

On paper there is no professional sports bettor because the common perception is that sports betting is gambling. That is the main problem with that.

Regarding taxation of illegal activities. They can't be tasked. Illegal activities are a matter of a criminal code, not a matter of taxation.

Yes, but it's the case here. And there already have been drug dealers who were sentenced to pay income tax: https://www.express.de/bonn/bonn-arc...ahlen-24441184

[Limited]

@lonnie55

Still not a grey area but I would call it over-regulation. You have 2 contradictory laws covering same area. That's a problem of your legislator. The court has an ungrateful task to determinate what will prevail, to create a precedence. Next your government should make amendments to the law, to solve the issue.

Regarding taxation of illegal activities. They can't be tasked. Illegal activities are a matter of a criminal code, not a matter of taxation.

[lonnie55]

I don't agree with "grey area" view when it comes to taxes. The law must be clear. Who is paying, what is paying for, how much is paying etc.... You can't be charged from a tax agency, just because something is not defined yet or just because some laws are missing. So if there is no explicit law that tells how much (%) must a pro-gambler pay, and how exactly is the tax calculated, what is the base and who is the payer. If this kind of regulation doesn't exist, then I agree with those who say that there is no tax.

When it comes to regulatory questions there is no space for grey, or it is black or it is white. You must pay some tax, because there is a specific law/article that makes it obligatory for you to pay, or the law doesn't exist and so you don't need to pay a tax.

I wish it would be that simple in reality. A law for every and anything and you would just have to search for the relevant paragraph to know about your rights and duties. Unfortunately reality is not like that. Laws are abstractly written and very often there are at least two opinions about a thing, otherwise we would not have that many lawsuits. And when it comes to sports betting this is pretty much the definition of a legal grey area for me. In Germany there are two different laws that can simultaneously be applied to professional sports betting but are mutually contradictory. The first one is that earnings from sports betting do not belong to the seven categories of income, thus they have to be tax-free. The second one is that every economic activity that is carried out on own account, own responsibility and permanently with the intention to make a (long-term) profit is taxable. If your main income comes from sports betting, especially for a longer period of time, then it can be considered as a profession. It does not even matter which activity it is and I don't know how it is elsewhere but at this place it does not even matter if the activity is legal or not! That means a drug or weapons dealer has to pay income taxes and make a tax declaration as well Otherwise it's tax fraud.

To break it down: Two of three main criterions would apply to say sports betting is taxable

1. Legal or Illegal? Does not matter for taxation
2. Main income? Check. Own account? Check. Own responsibility? Check. Permanent activity? Check. Intention to make long-term profit? Check.
3. One of the seven categories of income? No.

A practical example: https://www.casinoonline.de/nachrich...y-scharf-3982/

Eddy Scharf, a German poker professional, had an advance ruling of the finance authority that playing poker professionally is not taxable because it's gambling. 9 years later the Federal Finance Court declared this decision invalid and sentenced him to pay retroactively a 6 figure tax amount. It was a total shock, not only for him but also for all the law experts and the whole industry itself. It was the first time a poker player had been sentenced to pay taxes ALTHOUGH the laws were not clear and even the responsible finance authority said something else.

If not professional gambling what else is a grey area in terms of being taxable or not. At least at this place it definitely is.

[eath1]

Thanks for the answers. From what I've seen the country that's closer to what I'm looking is Austria. I can bet on pinnacle there without problems and the winnings are not taxed.
Another interesting country would be Malta but the information I've read is a bit confusing. Does anyone have more information on gambling in Malta?

[moojoo]

Can we make consensus what money is involved when you say pro gambler. If you gonna bet 100k match best is Asia then. Europe is good but i doubt you can put 20k on some bet at local shop.

[Limited]

I don't agree with "grey area" view when it comes to taxes. The law must be clear. Who is paying, what is paying for, how much is paying etc.... You can't be charged from a tax agency, just because something is not defined yet or just because some laws are missing. So if there is no explicit law that tells how much (%) must a pro-gambler pay, and how exactly is the tax calculated, what is the base and who is the payer. If this kind of regulation doesn't exist, then I agree with those who say that there is no tax.

When it comes to regulatory questions there is no space for grey, or it is black or it is white. You must pay some tax, because there is a specific law/article that makes it obligatory for you to pay, or the law doesn't exist and so you don't need to pay a tax.

[Optional]

Aren't there limit issues though? I suppose you could stuff every street corner, but then you need a beard or five, no?

lol. I'm guessing they are all Will Hill like in behavior.

Hope all is well with you Pack.

It's great for the recreational gambler but the regulator in UK has always held the opinion that it is just fine for their books to profile profitable customers to exploit whilst limiting/booting unprofitable ones.

And I mean in insidious ways, right down to using AI to identify what week of the month, or day of the week, people are paid and slamming them with promos that day. It's an ugly ugly industry in the UK imho.

IMHO it is close to the worst of the big legal jurisdictions, as far as the regulator caring at all about Fair Bookmaking Practices.


Plus they have legally pushed books there into asking for payslips, bank statements, proof of money source and all sorts of riciculously private things for bookmaker to deal with.

And this has started infecting other books thinking outside the UK.


Honestly, UK would be below USA for me as far as a destination for a pro gambler.

USA, like Australia has, will hopefully tell these UK urger corporate books to pull their damn heads in and play more fairly in the USA.

[moojoo]

But you need to know,its not same kind of people inside US sportsbook and inside Europeans. Bums crawl all over those places. It better just to bet online... its not pub like feeling when watch games,more like homeles shelter with big screens.

[packerd_00]

Aren't there limit issues though? I suppose you could stuff every street corner, but then you need a beard or five, no?

lol. I'm guessing they are all Will Hill like in behavior.

Hope all is well with you Pack.

Yeah certainly mate, I still find it to be the best country for Sports Betting though, regardless. Its kind of cool, as your walking down the road you can just pop into the betting shop and take a load off and watch some games on the big screen. Yeah im sure you could pull that stunt off mate but you couldn't get to carried away with it, would need to tread lightly.

I still prefer to bet online more though, given that Bet365 doesn't have their own shops for some reason.

I'm good mate, hope you're doing okay, been awhile.

[KVB]

The United Kingdom is the best without question, got a Bookie on every street corner. It's pretty much a candy shop for any Sports Bettor.

Aren't there limit issues though? I suppose you could stuff every street corner, but then you need a beard or five, no?

lol. I'm guessing they are all Will Hill like in behavior.

Hope all is well with you Pack.

[lonnie55]

But in germany you pay taxes on your stake, 5%. Isnt that all?

This is a tax the bookie has to pay and some "pass" the tax to the customers, others don't. But it has nothing to do with the income you earn from (professional) betting.

[moojoo]

But in germany you pay taxes on your stake, 5%. Isnt that all?

[lonnie55]

Here is something about taxes in Europe (dont know how accurate it is)

https://www.cheekypunter.com/faq/do-...ling-winnings/

Interesting article. But I question that it is as easy as the author assumes by simply saying 'yes' or 'no' on whether you have to pay taxes as a professional gambler in a country or not. He said 'no' regarding Germany. But in fact it is a grey area here. I mean yes, it's right that there has not been a precedent yet where a player would have been sentenced to pay taxes but what I know from a tax lawyer is that there have been lawsuits in some federal states in recent times and that it could be just a matter of time when a player will be sentenced (a famous German poker player has already been). Probably the situation here is not much different from the situation in other countries. So I would be very skeptical if someone tells me 'no, you don't have to pay taxes in this country, even if you're a professional' because I highly doubt there is a law that clearly says 'professional gambling is tax-free'. Is there even one country in the world that defines the job of a professional gambler in a legal way? I don't think so. It's probably a grey area in most of the countries. It's only tax-free until a court says the opposite.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

Furthermore the same interpretation of law was applied in Malta a while ago (1957). Case No. 34/56.

It's quite possible it's not changed, but Malta was still a British colony then.

[Mediterranean]

It seems that UK & Ireland got similar approach towards gambling and it's not considered as a trade due to it's not required to be included in an annual income tax form.

https://www.justanswer.com/ireland-law/7trmd-gambling-winnings-completely-tax-free-ireland.html

Furthermore the same interpretation of law was applied in Malta a while ago (1957). Case No. 34/56.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130426184645/http://www.ird.gov.mt/v1/cases/bsc/1956/case/bsc34.asp

However I'm not sure how it looks now, maybe someone else could provide some more info about the current status there.

[Limited]

Here is something about taxes in Europe (dont know how accurate it is)

https://www.cheekypunter.com/faq/do-i-have-to-pay-taxes-on-online-gambling-winnings/

[stevek173]

I continue to do well in Siberia.

Being a sex slave for only hot girls gets demanding, but it works for me.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

The United Kingdom is the best without question, got a Bookie on every street corner. It's pretty much a candy shop for any Sports Bettor.

All shit books that limit you to peanuts though :-)

[SBE]

Malta and gambling taxes was complicated when I looked into it. One of those "you'll probably get away with it but if tax authorities weren't so lazy you could end up having to pay tax on your winnings" situations. But if not tax free it will at least be low taxes.

Malta is a favourite "holiday destination" in Europe. If I rent an apartment there, for long term (or even to buy

"something smaller" - I saw the prices there are not higher as anywhere else in western Europe), and as being a

citizen of any other EU country, there should be no problem I suppose. Until I do not tell them (why would I do so ?)

that I am "a professional gambler" (though such " occupation" officially really does not exist). Who will care what am

I doing while being on a holiday ? Any comments are appreciated, please. Thank you.

[packerd_00]

Serbia for sure.With 1500e/month you are fck king here.Pretty girls,cheap beer... All what you need is just good VPN.

How many people want to live there.

[packerd_00]

The United Kingdom is the best without question, got a Bookie on every street corner. It's pretty much a candy shop for any Sports Bettor.

[caramba]

Malta and gambling taxes was complicated when I looked into it. One of those "you'll probably get away with it but if tax authorities weren't so lazy you could end up having to pay tax on your winnings" situations. But if not tax free it will at least be low taxes.

[seljak]

Serbia for sure.With 1500e/month you are fck king here.Pretty girls,cheap beer... All what you need is just good VPN.

[Poisec]

Nobody suggested Malta? the obvious choice.

[jjgold]

now anywhere

[SBE]

What about Malta ? There are also registered (licensed in Malta) many sportsbetting companies. But I do not know how it is with any tax for professional gamblers...

[moojoo]

In Serbia there is no taxes on betting and gambling per se. Cheap life costs comparing to EU. Lots of local shops with online sites offering everything bet365 for example does including live betting. Same day payouts in you bank account,or you can go to shop and withdraw at sight...

[lonnie55]

I always believed if you did anything profesionally in Belgium, it's taxed as regular income to which losses are deductable. After all you are taxed on your income, which means profit minus losses and deductions.

That sounds reasonable. Same situation here in Germany. Nevertheless I do not know one pro that pays taxes and authorities did not sue anyone but a poker pro so far.

[Alfa1234]

Seems to be the case in a lot of jurisdictions. I mean, you could understand why it would be declared taxable, especially for say poker players where the skill element is more clearly understood.

Practically though? Massive pita for them to oversee, for a tiny benefit. If you tax, you probably have to allow players to deduct losses. Then do you allow them to offset cost of computer/internet/etc as business expenses? :-)

In the UK we used to have a fixed 9% tax on bets until about 2001, paid with the stake, but the government figured out it would generate more tax to scrap that and simply tax profits of operators.

I always believed if you did anything profesionally in Belgium, it's taxed as regular income to which losses are deductable. After all you are taxed on your income, which means profit minus losses and deductions.

[danshan11]

Seems to be the case in a lot of jurisdictions. I mean, you could understand why it would be declared taxable, especially for say poker players where the skill element is more clearly understood.

Practically though? Massive pita for them to oversee, for a tiny benefit. If you tax, you probably have to allow players to deduct losses. Then do you allow them to offset cost of computer/internet/etc as business expenses? :-)

In the UK we used to have a fixed 9% tax on bets until about 2001, paid with the stake, but the government figured out it would generate more tax to scrap that and simply tax profits of operators.

because finding a winner that actually owed taxes was harder to find than a real unicorn

[HeeeHAWWWW]

Thank you for those links, some experts still disagree whether that tax applies to sports gambling.

In Dutch:
https://voetbalgok.be/belastingen-voetbalwedden-belgie/

Seems to be the case in a lot of jurisdictions. I mean, you could understand why it would be declared taxable, especially for say poker players where the skill element is more clearly understood.

Practically though? Massive pita for them to oversee, for a tiny benefit. If you tax, you probably have to allow players to deduct losses. Then do you allow them to offset cost of computer/internet/etc as business expenses? :-)

In the UK we used to have a fixed 9% tax on bets until about 2001, paid with the stake, but the government figured out it would generate more tax to scrap that and simply tax profits of operators.