5dimes lowering odds after game

[RonPaul2008]

This is standard policy at 5Dimes, most books actually just cancel wagers for off-market odds, which we're sure you would not prefer. It has always been the case and is clearly posted in the rules. In fact it is a policy SBR was consulted on many years ago and is more favorable to players who knowingly or unknowingly bet off-market odds.

"If a wager with an erroneous line is not voided before the game/play begins, Management reserves the right to remedy the odds to a fair market price which would have been available at the time the wager was placed. This price remedy may be applied during or after an event. Only the odds will be corrected on an erroneous line. The risk amount, applicable spread and total will always remain unchanged. A player will never benefit from betting on a clear erroneous line. Repeat offenders will not be tolerated."

So these were 'bad' lines, not just slow to move?

[The Kraken]

This is standard policy at 5Dimes, most books actually just cancel wagers for off-market odds, which we're sure you would not prefer. It has always been the case and is clearly posted in the rules. In fact it is a policy SBR was consulted on many years ago and is more favorable to players who knowingly or unknowingly bet off-market odds.

"If a wager with an erroneous line is not voided before the game/play begins, Management reserves the right to remedy the odds to a fair market price which would have been available at the time the wager was placed. This price remedy may be applied during or after an event. Only the odds will be corrected on an erroneous line. The risk amount, applicable spread and total will always remain unchanged. A player will never benefit from betting on a clear erroneous line. Repeat offenders will not be tolerated."

So after the fact, they’re adjusting wagers that were 1-2% off market pricing?

So much for jumping in eqrly and getting a good line

[lonnie55]

This is standard policy at 5Dimes, most books actually just cancel wagers for off-market odds

But not 2+ weeks later!!!

This is not a standard policy at any place.

[Wohlford]

it's possible that there is a valid explanation like what Optional said

So you quote me, edit out the part where I actually give a hypothetical example of how there could be a valid explanation, and then instruct me that there could be a valid explanation. You donk.

[bubba]

This is standard policy at 5Dimes, most books actually just cancel wagers for off-market odds, which we're sure you would not prefer. It has always been the case and is clearly posted in the rules. In fact it is a policy SBR was consulted on many years ago and is more favorable to players who knowingly or unknowingly bet off-market odds.

"If a wager with an erroneous line is not voided before the game/play begins, Management reserves the right to remedy the odds to a fair market price which would have been available at the time the wager was placed. This price remedy may be applied during or after an event. Only the odds will be corrected on an erroneous line. The risk amount, applicable spread and total will always remain unchanged. A player will never benefit from betting on a clear erroneous line. Repeat offenders will not be tolerated."

how does an erroneous line result in a 94 cent adjustment? unless it was a 2$ wager on a major market i just dont get it.

I have been with 5dimes for about 15 years. I have had numerous bets cancelled as "bad lines" (a few a year probably. mostly obscure props that are so tough to know what a bad line is). I have not once had an adjustment of odds post wager that I am aware of.

[The Kraken]

Exactly... without seeing the original bet amount its impossible to know what % was adjusted or how far off market 5dimes is claiming to be but I assume it’s an small %

Im curious how far off market value before they are correcting. It appears it is an extremely small % and thats concerning.

Are they also crediting accounts when the price they offer is worse than market value?

Is the idea of a watchdog dead?

[lonnie55]

I have been with 5dimes for about 15 years. I have not once had an adjustment of odds post wager that I am aware of.

OP should give us more details. Maybe we only know the half of the truth.

[qsgsg]

So you quote me, edit out the part where I actually give a hypothetical example of how there could be a valid explanation, and then instruct me that there could be a valid explanation. You donk.

dear donk, i'm agreeing with you not instructing.

[VegasPackerFan]

Do they only deduct when the change is in the bettors favor? I'm guessing they're not giving you a credit if the market went the other way? Seems like it should go both ways.

[lonnie55]

Do they only deduct when the change is in the bettors favor? I'm guessing they're not giving you a credit if the market went the other way? Seems like it should go both ways.

Sure. In Alice's Wonderland maybe.

[The Kraken]

Whatcha thinking Lou?

They’re adjusting bets after the fact based on undisclosed data to determine market value. There is zero transparency in this process.

My assumption going forward is that any wager I make may be adjusted in their favor and I have to accept it, although I may have never made the bet in the first place at that price.

How is this in the favor of bettors?

[Optional]

Whatcha thinking Lou?

They’re adjusting bets after the fact based on undisclosed data to determine market value. There is zero transparency in this process.

My assumption going forward is that any wager I make may be adjusted in their favor and I have to accept it, although I may have never made the bet in the first place at that price.

How is this in the favor of bettors?

To be fair Kraken, the rule itself is fine.

And as far as transparency, I'm not sure why they did a bunch of little ones on this guy, but the thread has been pretty opaque from the start. Obviously more to this than meets the eye.

[The Kraken]

True, I recognize the OP hasn’t exactly been forthcoming with all the info. Been around a while and have seen quite a bit of these threads and there is usually more than meets the eye.

As for the rule, I understand in extreme cases it has merit, assuming it goes both ways. I would absolutely love to see if they credited punters the same % that had bet the other side of this same bet. Should be easy enough and this is where lack of transparency becomes more important.

But the rule loses merit if they’re adjusting bets 1% after the fact (in that is really what happened here) based on market averages. And becomes downright theft if they’re only adjusting one way.

I put quite a bit of $$$ through 5D and am a big supporter of them, not taking a side here

[bubba]

To be fair Kraken, the rule itself is fine.

And as far as transparency, I'm not sure why they did a bunch of little ones on this guy, but the thread has been pretty opaque from the start. Obviously more to this than meets the eye.

I disagree. Its a horrible rule that opens up a book to take shots at the players. The players need protections so much more than the book needs protection here. In a perfect world, it may work, but its not a perfect world. What is the definition of wagers worthy of taking $ retroactively out of players accounts? Do they just as easily retroactively add them in? has it been consistently enforced with the rule on the book?

Im willing to give 5dimes the benefit of the doubt that this was justified in this case (still dont know the details), more than I am willing to give the rule itself benefit of the doubt.

[bitcoinLuke]

This is standard policy at 5Dimes, most books actually just cancel wagers for off-market odds, which we're sure you would not prefer. It has always been the case and is clearly posted in the rules. In fact it is a policy SBR was consulted on many years ago and is more favorable to players who knowingly or unknowingly bet off-market odds.

"If a wager with an erroneous line is not voided before the game/play begins, Management reserves the right to remedy the odds to a fair market price which would have been available at the time the wager was placed. This price remedy may be applied during or after an event. Only the odds will be corrected on an erroneous line. The risk amount, applicable spread and total will always remain unchanged. A player will never benefit from betting on a clear erroneous line. Repeat offenders will not be tolerated."

This is a BS response and something that someone who had their pockets lined with money would say. This opens every bet made to be changed whenever they feel like it, to whatever odds they feel like it. SBR is a joke if they let this stand and keep 5dimes as an A rated book.

[scottgodson1985]

wow thats outrageous!

[Barrakuda]

And becomes downright theft if they’re only adjusting one way.

[Barrakuda]

This is a major red flag for the post-Tony 5 Dimes. I've been with them for 20 years. Never seen bullsh!t quit like this.

SBR: what's the harm in revealing which markets were involved?

[Vadym]

This is standard policy at 5Dimes, most books actually just cancel wagers for off-market odds, which we're sure you would not prefer. It has always been the case and is clearly posted in the rules. In fact it is a policy SBR was consulted on many years ago and is more favorable to players who knowingly or unknowingly bet off-market odds.

"If a wager with an erroneous line is not voided before the game/play begins, Management reserves the right to remedy the odds to a fair market price which would have been available at the time the wager was placed. This price remedy may be applied during or after an event. Only the odds will be corrected on an erroneous line. The risk amount, applicable spread and total will always remain unchanged. A player will never benefit from betting on a clear erroneous line. Repeat offenders will not be tolerated."

Is it official statement from 5dimes ? If so, I am really sorry about people playing there. Can you imagine this kind of reaction from Pinnacle or SBObet ? How 5dimes can have the same rating with top notch bookies ? Why Pinnacle don't operate words like "bad line" or "steam chase" ?

[RonPaul2008]

Is it official statement from 5dimes ? If so, I am really sorry about people playing there. Can you imagine this kind of reaction from Pinnacle or SBObet ? How 5dimes can have the same rating with top notch bookies ? Why Pinnacle don't operate words like "bad line" or "steam chase" ?

All books have "bad lines" and cancel them from time to time. They don't, however, change your odds after the game.
I'm not saying these were bad lines as I have no idea.

[lonnie55]

Is it official statement from 5dimes ? If so, I am really sorry about people playing there. Can you imagine this kind of reaction from Pinnacle or SBObet ? How 5dimes can have the same rating with top notch bookies ? Why Pinnacle don't operate words like "bad line" or "steam chase" ?

how can you compare a recreational book like 5dimes with pinnacle?

[Barrakuda]

BetPhoenix tried doing this to me about 7 years ago. I have not been back since.

[Barrakuda]

Edit by SBR:

This is standard policy at 5Dimes, most books actually just cancel wagers for off-market odds, which we're sure you would not prefer. It has always been the case and is clearly posted in the rules. In fact it is a policy SBR was consulted on many years ago and is more favorable to players who knowingly or unknowingly bet off-market odds.


"If a wager with an erroneous line is not voided before the game/play begins, Management reserves the right to remedy the odds to a fair market price which would have been available at the time the wager was placed. This price remedy may be applied during or after an event. Only the odds will be corrected on an erroneous line. The risk amount, applicable spread and total will always remain unchanged. A player will never benefit from betting on a clear erroneous line. Repeat offenders will not be tolerated."


__________

I'm done with them. They could tell me they don't want my action instead of stealing money.

Definitely not what A+ books do.

Unreal that SBR is overwriting posts with their BS. We get it: you get paid by 5D. A lot. Doesn't mean you should try to censor posters.

[Barrakuda]

SBR, Please answer this simple question:

Do you or do you not support a book's policy of changing lines two weeks after an event was graded?

Yes or no will suffice.

[Optional]

SBR, Please answer this simple question:

Do you or do you not support a book's policy of changing lines two weeks after an event was graded?

Yes or no will suffice.

I'm not SBR Forum

But of course SBR support the rule that if bad lines are detected post match, then they should be adjusted to the correct market odds and paid out, rather than cancelled.

All players should too!!



Seriously, not sure why the level of anger here.

Some dude posts an unexplained screenshot of a bunch of regrades starting from FIVE DAYS earlier (but even it they all were weeks old, it makes no difference).

A bunch of posters ask for more information about the bet details, no answer. No submission of complaint form wanting SBR to follow up.

The guy clearly knows he is in the wrong and doesn't want to be exposed.



I think we've been successfully trolled with only half the truth here.

[KVB]

Many questions in this thread that should be answered.

The claim that any sort of practice like this is common or normal is unsubstantiated and should be backed with evidence that this regularly occurs.

I dispute that claim.

I see bets from 10-29 being adjusted on 11-15.

Would be interesting to know not only the markets, but also whether or not the other side of the bet was credited.

I take it these are moneylines?

Was an SBR complaint filed?

Regardless, if the lines no good, cancel the bet. Changing the bet may produce a bet that isn't acceptable by the player.

That's a one sided event and to not settle these books for weeks or until the middle of the month is outright wrong.

Maybe 5D didn't get their quota and started stealing from customers, the rule they have doesn't prevent that.

Some bettors who did reach a quota then find out money was taken from them.

There is no part of that screenshot above that is acceptable practice.

There must be more to this story. The screenshot looks like theft in the current online landscape.

Is the screenshot legit?

[bubba]

SBR, Please answer this simple question:

Do you or do you not support a book's policy of changing lines two weeks after an event was graded?

Yes or no will suffice.

Its actually advantageous to the player. Its a good gesture by the book doing this. I read so in this thread.

[KVB]

So these were 'bad' lines, not just slow to move?

Curious to know if that would even matter. A slow to move line just becomes bad, if they say so. Apparently they have weeks to decide.

One question I didn't see...were these adjustments triggered when the player made a withdrawal request? Perhaps there was a specific account review and these adjustments only applied to this player after the fact.

[bitcoinLuke]

I think SBR would side with a book and say it was A rated even if it was about to go under......wait, they did already(BetIslands)

This is beyond a stupid rule from an "A-rated" book, but I get advertising dollars speak louder than morals

[bubba]

I'm not SBR Forum

But of course SBR support the rule that if bad lines are detected post match, then they should be adjusted to the correct market odds and paid out, rather than cancelled.

All players should too!!



Seriously, not sure why the level of anger here.

Some dude posts an unexplained screenshot of a bunch of regrades starting from FIVE DAYS earlier (but even it they all were weeks old, it makes no difference).

A bunch of posters ask for more information about the bet details, no answer. No submission of complaint form wanting SBR to follow up.



I think we've been successfully trolled with only half the truth here.

What about just honoring the wager? Why are the choices cancel or adjust?

Whats the definition of a "bad line" anyway? Thats the main issue here i think.

[Optional]

What about just honoring the wager? Why are the choices cancel or adjust?

Whats the definition of a "bad line" anyway? Thats the main issue here i think.

There is one there marked Backward Line. Do they honor that?

I wish we knew the full story too.


But unless we start seeing further weird looking examples, I don't really care too much. I trust 5Dimes to do the right thing in general. This just looks like a case where someone has pushed the line too far and they pushed back. I have been doing my best to avoid coming up with assumptions and theories like everyone else has been, but honestly it does look quite explicable to me if I was making guesses.

[bubba]

There is one there marked Backward Line. Do they honor that?

I wish we knew the full story too.


But unless we start seeing further weird looking examples, I don't really care too much. I trust 5Dimes to do the right thing in general. This just looks like a case where someone has pushed the line too far and they pushed back. I have been doing my best to avoid coming up with assumptions and theories like everyone else has been, but honestly it does look quite explicable to me if I was making guesses.

No question an obvious backwards line should be cancelled before the game. if you think the player took a shot, then ban him. But im still not cool with retroactively taking away funds AFTER THE GAME ENDED. Be on top of these things before the game starts. Ban him and be done with player if you must but its a real slippery slope adjusting odds after the game.

And for the record, I found a super clear backwards line back in the day i wagered with 5dimes. This was a prop on a cardinals-rangers world series game. I had accidentally bet this backwards line not even realizing (i bet on the wrong team cause i assumed the team that was -170 was the team that should be -170)

I contacted tony either middle of game or after the game about this OBVIOUS bad line I had bet into. I was told bet stands.

I am not looking to bash 5dimes. They are a great out and have been very good to me. But this a really slippery slope for any shop to be taking part in.

[Optional]

No question an obvious backwards line should be cancelled before the game. if you think the player took a shot, then ban him. But im still not cool with retroactively taking away funds AFTER THE GAME ENDED. Be on top of these things before the game starts. Ban him and be done with player if you must but its a real slippery slope adjusting odds after the game.

And for the record, I found a super clear backwards line back in the day i wagered with 5dimes. This was a prop on a cardinals-rangers world series game. I had accidentally bet this backwards line not even realizing (i bet on the wrong team cause i assumed the team that was -170 was the team that should be -170)

I contacted tony either middle of game or after the game about this OBVIOUS bad line I had bet into. I was told bet stands.

I am not looking to bash 5dimes. They are a great out and have been very good to me. But this a really slippery slope for any shop to be taking part in.

Yeah I don't think you are bashing. Just trying to understand.


As long as I have been doing this job, fair industry practice among offshores is that errors spotted before an event should be cancelled and the player advised so they can rebet if they choose.

If after the event then the book has to still payout but revalue the bet to "correct" odds.

This really has appeared to result in the fairest outcomes most of the time when issues come up.


As far as the other side must be given something too. It's more complicated than that in practice.

1) If it's an obvious error, there usually is no-one, or almost no-one, betting the other side.

2)Books don't always do market wide adjustments. They can often just pick out those that have hit bad lines in the past and re-adjust those accounts manually. In order to "pay the other side" there, they would have to them penalize all the other players who won as well.

3) If it's a bad line that occurs in a multi-runner market, how do you go about adjusting all the other runners fairly?


As long as the book is genuinely fair when exercising the rule, then this works fairly for both books and us honest players.

And it's not like you hear of too many people complaining about re-grades over the years.

[Barrakuda]

I don't really care too much. I trust 5Dimes to do the right thing in general.

This much was already quite obvious.

[Barrakuda]

I wish we knew the full story too.

Except your employer does know the full story. They are just refusing to reveal the details. Not exactly shocking to most of us.