MATCHBOOK says goodbye to 2% commission...

**Mark Shark** · 03-25-09, 10:53 PM

but no one is betting with them. LOL

**bettilimbroke999** · 03-26-09, 12:15 AM

Scalpers are why matchy changed their system, nothing but scalpers matching each other 2000 bets before for false matching, two scalpers match each other and lock in 20-40 bucks each then matchy collects a big dollar and half on 4000 worth of bets, now it takes 150 worth of matched bets to replace that commission, a successful scalper that pulls in 2000 a month think they are so important to matchy get fukin real, they were makin 40 bucks a month off of u, now they can get real gamblers who will actually pay commissions instead of just scalpers out for free money, they match 5000 in bets in the month theyve replaced scalpers that prolly matched 250k during the month

I still disagree with the new system as it applies to live betting however as the whole idea of live betting is the ability to hedge your bet

**Mark Shark** · 03-26-09, 01:20 AM

Get a grip mate. Have a look at how much money is actually changing hands right now at Matchbook. How many bets will a $10 punter need to contribute $40, well it is 400 bets a month. Like I said before, they should have just charged a higher percentage to scalpers who bet both sides of the market. Something like 10 or 15% would have me contributing 200 to $300 a month and their liquidity would not have been hit. The way it is now it seems everyone is too scared to bet so few people get matched.

**bettilimbroke999** · 03-26-09, 03:07 AM

Most bettors fall into the 50-100 game range, I know of no sports bettor that bets 10 bucks. Spend as much time making offers as you do whining about the new system and you'll prolly make some pretty good cash

**Mark Shark** · 03-26-09, 03:41 AM

I am making plenty of offers at the best odds available but all these so called bettors are nowhere to be found. Over the last week I have hardly had any offers matched even though they were the best odds available and there was only a point gap between the teams. What else do people want?

**bettilimbroke999** · 03-26-09, 04:32 AM

Well that's a tough one, it would be interesting to see matchbook's betting totals I must admit. I have made several offers under the new system on halftime lines and have routinely gotten them matched, clearly there has to be matching going on as the lines move at matchy thus whenever odds are moved the former odds have to be taken and matched, look at sbrlines for matchbook's frequent movements, this idea that the odds are frozen all day at some 1 cent line with no matching is false. If you do the majority of your betting on NHL or other unpopular sports such as golf, tennis, etc you may also be experiencing this lack of matching bc basically the only bettors in those markets have already posted their offers and are standing by waiting to be matched themselves

**Mark Shark** · 03-26-09, 04:45 AM

Most of my betting is done on NBA and NHL to a lesser extent. What I find is the odds settle and no-one bets till Pinnacle moves their lines. Then I take my offers off the board and adjust them to the new line. It may look like someone has taken my odds but really I have just up and moved to the new settling point. No one bets unless the lines moves sufficient enough for them to back out later at a profit.

Don't you think that my 15 to 20% on profits for scalpers would be a better model than they have now?

**bettilimbroke999** · 03-26-09, 05:09 AM

Its just too complex to have multiple commission systems in place, there is just really no way to make that work, there would be too much confusion, you have to chose one commission system that works for everyone

If everytime you are about to get matched u take up your offers than no wonder your not getting matched, I place an offer and it gets taken, if ur never going to let people match your offer how do u expect it to get accepted, heres a thought, why not bet half your scalp at another book then accept the other half at matchy paying the 1%, with matchy's virtually juiceless lines surely there must be some scalping available even with the 1% fee, its clearly a less attractive deal for scalpers there is zero denying that, this was not a move to attract scalpers it was a move to tighten the markets and cut commissions for actual bettors as stated on their home page this hurts scalpers

It sounds like if the only scalping you are able to do is accept side scalping both sides at matchy then you may want to rethink your career as I dont see matchy moving back to a scalping model to get back the 40 bucks a month the scalpers were paying on 250k worth of bets

**bettilimbroke999** · 03-26-09, 05:52 AM

You have to look at it from matchy's pov, if they raised comm to 15-20% sure you might keep the scalpers but there would be no matching anyway bc you would've just eliminated all the reg bettors looking for value, the old system was changed imo bc too much scalping was producing micro net profits which matchbook was only getting 2% of which is hard to make a successful business out of or else the scalpers who were keeping 98% would all be millionaires by now

I just dont see how you could have two overlapping commission systems, you accept an offer and the guy gets .2% for offering it to you, but you pay nothing except on net profit, so if you took two 1000 dollar accepts matchy would pay them each 2 bucks, then your lock in profit is lets say 40 bucks which at 10% would only cover the rebates theyd paid out, perhaps at like 20% it could be possible but think about it what if u only locked in 10 worth of profit then matchy would have to pay out twice as much as they charged you, would get very confusing and I dont see it happening, especially with the offer side rebate in place

**Mark Shark** · 03-26-09, 06:49 AM

I only meant it if it went back to the old system of 2% on net wins. Also if you don't think the new system is confusing then what is. You go to put up an offer and just before you press ok your offer becomes a matched bet as someone beat you to it on the other side. So now instead of getting .02% for making an offer, you are now effectively being charged approx. 2%. How is that situation fair.

Also you keep talking about scalpers eliminating regular bettors by taking away their value. Well those odds have probably been available for minutes if not hours and no-one takes them. These regular bettors are doing what scalpers do and wait for line changes. The only difference is they don't bet out of their position. I do and usually that means I will offer much better odds for the team that has just been backed because I need to get out on the other team. Which makes it a win for all you regular bettors that have probably missed the boat on the good odds that were there for an eternity but you didn't take.

Oh and yes I have used Matchbook against other books. Right now that is the only method that can be used. Thanks for all your advice Bettilimbroke999

**guy9bundes** · 03-26-09, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by Mark Shark

Most of my betting is done on NBA and NHL to a lesser extent. What I find is the odds settle and no-one bets till Pinnacle moves their lines. Then I take my offers off the board and adjust them to the new line. It may look like someone has taken my odds but really I have just up and moved to the new settling point. No one bets unless the lines moves sufficient enough for them to back out later at a profit.

Mark,

In the last week on all the NBA games I see much tighter lines, and a lot on 1 cent line.
My bets are being matched much quicker then before. ( I also take a lot of offers because the offers are so good). My turnover is well over 5K per day.

For a regular bettor the difference of 1.2% ( accept offer Vs. take offer ) is no issue.

It is also very easy to understand the new system? what is the big deal??

for a regular bettor the new system is great for scalpers it is disaster, all of us including Matchbook know this.

**bettilimbroke999** · 03-26-09, 11:41 AM

Well said guy9, Im really not sure its sinking in to Mark that matchbook was not making nearly as much profit as they are under this new system and they made this change bc they were making virtually nothing off the scalpers, 2% of a scalpers net win profits for the month is nothing, matchbook needs actual action to make a profit and thats why they can cut the commission by more than half and still make much more this way.

Mark seems like a nice guy I just think hes still caught up in the idea matchbook might somehow change everything to appeal to the scalper and ignore the actual bettors, if he thought about it instead of just being mad about it he'd realize that they made this change knowing full well it was terrible for scalpers

I am a regular bettor so I am actually enjoying the new system except it should prolly be adjusted on live betting. They did cut the commission in half so its not too bad but since live betting often involves multiple bets on one game I dont really feel it should be under the same volume-based commission as the rest of the site but other than that the changes are great for the regular bettor especially if he/she is putting offers out there its amazing to make a bet and actually have it pay MORE than the odds, when the old way you would've been charged 2%, basically a 2.2% increase and when you accept offers you end up paying about the same as the old way except you save money by the markets being tighter. For the group matchbook is trying to appeal to, the regular bettors, this change is incredibly positive, for the scalpers that use to troll the site and suck up all the decent odds thus removing much of the value for the actual bettors these changes are prolly not so great. As an actual bettor it is extremely difficult to care about scalpers, I tend to think of myself when Im betting not how much money a scalper could be overcharging me by giving me worse odds than he just sucked off the board for the sole purpose of giving us regular bettors worse odds to make a profit, sorry Mark but Id rather donate to charity than to you and Santo so I absolutely support the new system other than on live betting, scalpers will have to adapt or close up shop

**Santo** · 03-26-09, 12:23 PM

I stopped doing it full time a couple of years ago and had been doing it much less the last 6 months (not enough hours in the day, and US time zones suck when you're in Northern Europe) so it's not a great hassle / problem for me... if I was still relying on it for an income I'd probably be making similar comments to MS.

I've taken my betting to Betfair/European sports and am making an OK amount there; I'm sure Matchbook will survive without my volume/commission, but I don't see them flourishing or growing under this new system.

**bettilimbroke999** · 03-26-09, 01:12 PM

If all the regular bettors like the new system and they make many times more commission regular bettors matching bets then I certainly see this as a good move for Matchbook, their site will no doubt increase profitability keep in mind I said profitability not volume bc the bettors will actually be paying commission on matched bets rather than some 30 dollar net profit they locked in on 2k worth of bets where matchbook pull in a half a buck in commission now if they match 60 bucks they are making the same as a scalper matching 2k, sorry scalpers, you screwed the regular bettors by taking all the decent odds and widening the markets, screwed matchbook out of commission, now looks like its your turn to bend over

**guy9bundes** · 03-26-09, 03:12 PM

Actually I as a regular bettor like the scalpers because they provide liquidity ( again, 2-3 cents for me is no issue ). But for matchbook it is disaster because there is limited volume of regular bettor for each game and if a one side of regular bettors being matched by scalpers then scalpers will offer bad odds on the other side and then there will be no good lines offered and side B regular bettors will put their bets in others books.
In this case Matchbook, even that the turnover is big make almost no money.

**bettilimbroke999** · 03-26-09, 06:12 PM

There is actually a considerable amount of liquidity under the current system the scalpers would have you believe there's a dollar on both sides but its virtually always 1k or more available right now on both sides and that's within 1 cent of each other more is available at 2 cents and 3 cents. I dont really care about the scalpers, just all the whining about moving back to a more scalper friendly model has gotten old, it aint gonna happen, the scalps should understand that since the first thing they put up on their website was this new system will hurt scalpers and help everyone else, Im sure matchy understood that the matching would go down significantly but that their percentage commission on those matches would go way up, the scalpers were paying so little in commission matchbook was forced to change, the same scalpers that forced the change are now spending all day whining about how they want matchbook to go back to the old way

. Wakeup guys matchbook couldnt get by on 2% of your scalping profits. Lines are tighter, commissions lower (for non-scalpers) and matchbook is making more money, sounds like a great change to me, what incentive would there be for them to go back?

**Santo** · 03-26-09, 06:16 PM

To say the scalpers forced the change isn't true; Betfair functions perfectly well with lots of them (check racing traders, bet angel etc -- there are how-to videos on scalping uk horse racing markets, and plenty of people making a living from it).

What forced the change is Matchbook's inability to attract sufficient regular betters to make their old model profitable.

**bettilimbroke999** · 03-26-09, 06:22 PM

Great change matchy in everyone but the scalpers opinion, if u want to pay 20% or 50% or 110% or whatever Betfair is charging these days go scalp over there, clearly no exchange is rolling out the red carpet for scalpers

**Frank** · 03-26-09, 08:08 PM

I have found that almost no offers get matched unless the market moves against you.

Even when the number is -108/+107 nothing gets matched until Pinnacle moves one way or the other.

My point is the only people matching are the same people who matched everything before......the market makers and the scalpers who eat up offers as markets move.

Seems like no one is actually betting.

The only exceptions seem to be 1 to 2 mins before gametime as any offerers scurry to get plays in.

Maybe it will get better when baseball starts.

**Mark Shark** · 03-26-09, 09:18 PM

Great observation that Frank.

**sdtrader** · 04-05-09, 01:17 AM

I recently joined matchbook about two months ago and found I could make money buying both sides during the live in game trading. I was going to continue this strategy as long as it would still be profitable even though I would pay more in commissions. However, it seems to me that the in game liquidity is way down. Is it just me or are there a lot less trades going on during live in game trading?

**kkkkk** · 04-05-09, 07:36 AM

in play liquidity is way down also on betfair. Maybe its global due to crisis or any other reason. On games where let say A team leads big i offfer odds twice better then other bookies will do and noone is betting so i sometimes cant cover bets. So maybe its not only matchbook but maybe that comission on matchbook made it worse for inplay betting. All in All big shame for Matchbook, all exchanges sux in one or other way...

**Matt Rain** · 04-05-09, 12:41 PM

Been playing there almost exclusively for the last week and I'm getting more and more excited by the possibilities. I'm putting up offers on just about everything and a lot of them are matched at the last minute.

Those 1-cent spreads turn into a game of "chicken" with a couple minutes to go before gametime, i.e. how bad do you want action on that game? Very rarely do I have to gobble up existing offers, although I often end up having action for less than my habitual 1-unit per play.

Will probably move 50-75% of my bankroll there over the coming weeks - currently funded at 6 books outside of Matchbook, but I can't find anything worthwhile on sides and totals now that I don't have to pay anything on winners at Matchbook.

I'm loving the new commission structure!

**aca** · 04-05-09, 02:31 PM

BASEBALL COMMISSIONS Baseball rates for 2009 will be as follows: Monyelines and Runlines: 0.6% accept side; -0.1% offer side (rebate). Totals: 0.8% accept side; -0.2% offer side (rebate). Rates will be reviewed at the end of April to ensure they are promoting liquidity for each market type.

**magnavox** · 04-05-09, 03:57 PM

So this means bets on totals are worse commission-wise for regular bettors than last year.

**Igetp2s** · 04-05-09, 04:16 PM

Sides are also slightly worse than last year's 1% on wins for people accepting, at lines closer to +100. The farther from +100 you go, I think it turns into slightly better for acceptors than last year.

I just don't understand why they can't make it a flat 0% for offer side and .5% for accept side. It would make it much, much simpler to calculate the true odds for everyone. Would anyone really be that upset about losing that $1 for every $1000 accepted?

**coldhardfacts** · 04-05-09, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by magnavox

So this means bets on totals are worse commission-wise for regular bettors than last year.

Not if you're getting odds on your total bets, since the commission is charged only on the bet amount, not the win amount.

**magnavox** · 04-05-09, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by coldhardfacts

Not if you're getting odds on your total bets, since the commission is charged only on the bet amount, not the win amount.

Don't think so. Really, how much can I get on totals?

Last year, when I hit a total at +105 I was essentially getting +104 (let's forget the change). Now I'm getting like... +103.4?

**Mark Shark** · 04-05-09, 07:51 PM

You are right Magnavox, worse odds for all at Matchbook.

**WileOut** · 04-05-09, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by Mark Shark

but no one is betting with them. LOL

You must be at a different matchbook than I've been at. The one I've been to has exploded in liquidity, even the low rated (TV) live events have thousands available. Halftime lines are as tight as it get and 50k is usually available on both sides. At least 50 thousand. Totals at the half you can get usually 10k at least. Usually 20k+.

Pre game has exploded from what it was before.

I would guess that you may be a shill for another book.

**Matt Rain** · 04-05-09, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by Mark Shark

worse odds for all at Matchbook.

Just put up offers.

**Mark Shark** · 04-05-09, 08:37 PM

Wile Out maybe it is you that works for Matchbook.

**bookie** · 04-06-09, 02:49 AM

I see that the new baseball commission is so low that they have to keep offers up at both prices: -153 / +153.

Let's do the math on accepting one of these offers. You can bet $153 to win $99.40, which comes to 1.539...or less than -154. Or you can bet $100.60 to win $153, which comes to 1.5208, or -152. We're talking two cent lines on acceptances.

**Santo** · 04-06-09, 04:42 AM

I believe that to be an artifact caused by people putting in decimal offers rather than deliberate.

**kkkkk** · 04-06-09, 11:16 AM

btw maybe offtopic but is it posible to bet in decimal odds on matchbook instead of those american odds, i mean even asian bookies offer not only asian odds(indo, singapore etc) but also decimal. And if yes where is this Option? That will attract more european people and will put up liquidity.