MATCHBOOK says goodbye to 2% commission...

[Frank]

I agree that it would be nice to see that but with the exception of matches made simultaneously where you may not know if you are the offerer or the accepter, most of your wagers you should know which one you are.

Joe.

If I eat up an offer and i have some unmatched and I leave it to be matched. It gets matched. I can't go back and check how much which is which??? WTF???

Players should know exactly where they stand at all times.

There is no reason why this can't be separated in the reports.

And prices get moved around and simultaneously played way more than you think a minute before gametime when offers are shuffled around to get filled.

[Kaps]

im so disappointed today ....i bet two sides of a game which i scratched and still ended paying $40 in commission ....thats fukkin bullshit ...im very upset with this new setup

this sux ....bad move matchy

[fingas]

Can someone explain me all this new commission structure but using European odds?

I don't use US odds and they should also have some explanation in EU odds since I can change the odds on their site.

Thanks

[Dark Horse]

Lack of clarity and negative responses from people losing 'money for nothing', after trading out of a position, could begin undermining MB's reputation. Bad publicity is a bitch. So far they've sailed clear off all that, operating from some immaculate place where everything was clear and simple; but now they've made themselves a target.

'Never change a winning team'. As mentioned, Tradesports made a similar change in the past. At first the platform was fantastic, but when they started juggling the numbers they quickly lost the trust of their clients. It turned out to be the beginning of the end. I hope MB will be far more flexible than TS. It takes years to build a reputation, and only seconds to destroy it.

[Santo]

There should (at the very least) be a way to see your position net of commission/fees..

[Bsims]

im so disappointed today ....i bet two sides of a game which i scratched and still ended paying $40 in commission ....thats fukkin bullshit ...im very upset with this new setup

this sux ....bad move matchy

What would your cost have been if you did this with a traditional book?

[Santo]

He either wouldn't have done it (if faced with -110) or would have had a cost of $0 (had the odds both side been available), though with an additional hidden cost in terms of the money being tied up.

Unfortunately the answer at Matchbook now is also not to do it, which ultimately reduces the need to keep any decent level of funds there.

[haste]

What's there not to like about this change? The commission rate improved or stayed the same for the majority of users. The move should also improve liquidity significantly on the site, more market makers will step in and make the lines tighter.

This isn't anything new either, stock exchanges have had this for ages and betfair made a similar move recently.

Face it, unless u bet both sides of a game (without market making), it doesn't really affect u. For the majority of players the commission rate dropped and the lines got tighter which should improve ROI.

On a -105/-105 or -104/-104 line, getting +100 and fees is still better then any traditional book can offer.

[Santo]

Betfair hasn't moved to transactional volume, even the premium charge exists only on your winnings.

[Casi]

I hate Betfair with my heart. Doesn´t mean they are not useful, but they are greedy bastards.
MB is different, they come around as rather generous (no Neteller withdrawal fees, reduced commission on certain sports/events etc.).

[bettilimbroke999]

The new commission system is fine, good job matchy, they adjusted the accept fees on live betting to .5% to appease the live bettors, so at this point I think the only people who will be discouraged are scalpers that scalp both sides of the game at matchbook, hell even scalpers that bet one side at matchy and one at another book will benefit. This is nothing like tradesports charging 4% on trades, that is QUADRUPLE what matchbook is charging on accepts and on offers you are actually PAID .2% to make your bets.

I was hesitant at first about these changes but they seem to be for the benefit of matchy and their customers alike, would u rather bet at -110/-110 somewhere else than -101/+100 with a 1% charge or .2% rebate on the lesser of risk/win at matchy?

[hhsilver]

What's there not to like about this change? The commission rate improved or stayed the same for the majority of users. The move should also improve liquidity significantly on the site, more market makers will step in and make the lines tighter.
...
Face it, unless u bet both sides of a game (without market making), it doesn't really affect u. For the majority of players the commission rate dropped and the lines got tighter which should improve ROI.

I don't see how it doesn't affect market makers, if they have a new structure similar to ours.
The way the lines can move so far and so fast, they can be caught with a lot of money at significantly bad odds. Just like any bookie, they can lose on a given game. I assumed they had a better deal than us in the old system and I'm guessing they might still have the same deal now. Or maybe they now get much more than 0.2% for offers matched and pay far less than 1% for accepting. Don't assume they only make offers. They have to accept as odds change, etc.

the way it was, they had long periods of time where they could offer , say , -108 and + 102 , giving them a little leeway to show profit if people bet at both numbers before odds changed. From what I observed , very little betting was going on at these times. Now, how well can they do offering , say , +103 and -104 in these tight markets, where it still doesn't seem like there is much action anyway, except when odds change (and this 'action' may be more of offer shifting than offer accepting) or it is getting close to game time?

Anyway, either I don't understand what is going on in the market making world or they do not now have it as good as before.

[Frank]

im so disappointed today ....i bet two sides of a game which i scratched and still ended paying $40 in commission ....thats fukkin bullshit ...im very upset with this new setup

this sux ....bad move matchy

Are you saying that you paid commission on a push/tie? Is that what you mean by scratched?

If so markets on whole numbers will not be as enticing as markets with half points attached.

[Santo]

I think he meant he bet say $2000 +112 and $2000 -112, and paid $40, I did the same yesterday. As for ties, I've not yet seen what they do with those.

[Frank]

Gotcha

I am very interested to know what happens on a tie/push

[Doug]

hopefully no fee. I think it will go to that, if it's not already in place.

hard to bet a hockey total of 6, if pushes cost money.

[Kaps]

santo thx for your explanations answering my questions ....you were 100% correct

also for those that want to know about games that push like last nights ND game ...you do NOT get charged commission...at least i didnt

[bettilimbroke999]

If the only problem ppl are having with the new system is that scalpers may have to take worse odds then I say its a great system, I am not concerned in the least that when I take a bet at -104 now the scalper could've made more money by charging me -108 under the old system, the markets are much tighter under this new system so either the scalpers are accepting the tighter odds or the regular bettors are making more offers since they can get better odds now than ever before and actually get rebates instead of commissions on their bets

Matchbook pretty much corrected the only negative thing about the new system and that was the overcharging of the active live bettors by cutting the accept commission in half, this new system seems largely positive imo, lower commissions and tighter markets how can any non-scalper not like that?

[Frank]

santo thx for your explanations answering my questions ....you were 100% correct

also for those that want to know about games that push like last nights ND game ...you do NOT get charged commission...at least i didnt

Thats good to hear

[Mark Shark]

If only Matchbook had a little total of Matched bets in the corner of each market like Betfair. Then we would be able to clearly see if Matched bets are going up or not.

[Santo]

bettilimbroke: The problem with your theory is that if your $200 (or whatever) is all that gets matched, Matchbook isn't viable. Scalpers probably didn't generate much commission for them, but I'm venturing it will now tend towards $0. Will regular betters do enough volume to compensate? I'm not convinced.

[Mark Shark]

There seems to still be a decent amount of liquidity at Matchbook for the moment because Scalpers are still trying to work out if they can make money using the new system or not. Give it a month or so and if it doesn't work out for these people they are going to take their money elswhere or just stop betting altogether. Then you will see a massive drop in liquidity at Matchbook.

[bettilimbroke999]

Theres plenty of non-scalpers that bet, in fact Id say a great majority of gamblers are of the non-scalp variety, in fact scalpers suck as all they do is eat up the weak lines and leave the sharp ones. Liquidity at matchy is better than ever with 1 and 2 cent lines on most things, truth is the margins were never that huge at matchy anyway, maybe 4 cent lines, now the scalpers can offer bets and get .2% on both sides anyway in addition to their scalping profit, proficient scalpers will move to an offer dominated scalping mode and the rest can hit the bricks as weak offers will be accepted by regular bettors anyway

[Santo]

We're going round in circles in market vs matchbook terms so let's leave it.

In the NHL market which I watch this time of year, very little is crossing. I was the $2k best offer for about 6 hours on one side of 1 of the 3 NHL games today and got $6 matched. It eventually got matched when the market moved whilst I was on the phone.

[bettilimbroke999]

No one bets or watches NHL, least popular sport in US, try watching a market that has a fanbase of more than just Canadian immigrants

[Mark Shark]

I know I used to bet large amounts upwards of 20k daily on NHL up until yesterday. Today I looked at it for a few minutes and then turned it off. No use to bet on it any more. i know I scalp but for every loss I had someone was paying 2% commission so I was still contributing to profits.

[WileOut]

Lack of clarity and negative responses from people losing 'money for nothing', after trading out of a position, could begin undermining MB's reputation. Bad publicity is a bitch. So far they've sailed clear off all that, operating from some immaculate place where everything was clear and simple; but now they've made themselves a target.

'Never change a winning team'. As mentioned, Tradesports made a similar change in the past. At first the platform was fantastic, but when they started juggling the numbers they quickly lost the trust of their clients. It turned out to be the beginning of the end. I hope MB will be far more flexible than TS. It takes years to build a reputation, and only seconds to destroy it.

Something very different that Tradesports did though was to change their rules for existing contracts. That is what did them in. That and the fact that their commission was TWICE that of matchbook.

Matchbook is not doing that. Positions bought under the 2% era stay that way. They are going about this the right way.

[WileOut]

Will regular betters do enough volume to compensate? I'm not convinced.

If not then people out there really are stupid. I mean this exchange has proven to be one of the top shops as far as payouts and safety is concerned.

Why a full game spread bettor (or ML bettor or totals bettor) would rather play at a 20 cent book instead of matchbook that averages like -102 or so for acceptors is just beyond me. Its just flat out dumb. I don't know what else to say about that.

Play at matchbook and save lots of money! If you need another book for props and 1st half bets then fine, but every one of the bettors mentioned in the 2nd paragraph needs matchbook in their arsenal.

[Mark Shark]

Probably the best comments you have made all thread. I am surprised it has taken you this long to realise that people gambling full stop are all stupid. At least with this book you are not getting ripped off by 20cents. I work at a Casino and can't believe just how many idiots have loads of money to gamble with.

[Mark Shark]

The lines today don't look any closer than they have any other day. In fact they are probably worse. I have had bets up at the best price for 2k waiting to be matched and haven't received any takers yet. So much for improvements.

[Frank]

We're going round in circles in market vs matchbook terms so let's leave it.

In the NHL market which I watch this time of year, very little is crossing. I was the $2k best offer for about 6 hours on one side of 1 of the 3 NHL games today and got $6 matched. It eventually got matched when the market moved whilst I was on the phone.

Hockey has been weak all year.

Not many people bet hockey.

I put up offers all season cents better than the market maker(about in the middle) and it sits for 10 hours with no bites at all if Pinnacle doesn't move.

Rarely will any offers be taken in hockey unless its the market maker reacting to Pinnacle pulling their string puppet.

[andywend]

Matchbook did make a sizeable improvement cutting their live trading rate for accepted offers from 1% down to 0.5%.

However, regardless of any further tweaking they might do, the same problem still remains with the commission being charged on trading volume as opposed to net win.

The vast majority of traders are now going to enter their own orders to try and save on trading commission. This might sound good but if the majority of traders now have the mindset that they don't want to accept offers and only want to enter orders, trading volumes have to decrease.

For example, in tonights Japan vs Cuba baseball game, the spread was Japan -114/Cuba +112. I put in an order to buy Japan @ -113 to save the penny in price and to save on the trading commission so the market was now Japan -113/Cuba +112. 10 minutes went by, I didn't get even a penny's worth of fill and wound up taking the Japan -114 (note that the Cuba +112 remained constant the whole time)

The other problem that I see is trading on season long markets like baseball division winners, over/under wins for each team, etc. Now that traders are being charged for each trade they make, the fees are really going to add up over the course of a 162 game (6 month) baseball season.

Trading volumes are going to decrease and Matchbook's revenues are going to decline as a result of this change.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that Matchbook is going to scrap this new commission structure within 3 months (perhaps much sooner) and return to the 2% commission on net win. This is strictly my opinion only.

Finally, I have heard the term "scalper" thrown around a lot and am not sure exactly what that means?

Are you guys defining "scalper" as someone who trades both sides of a live event as the game progresses? Why is that such a bad thing and why is it OK to stick it to this type of trader to benefit those that don't trade in that manner?

[Mark Shark]

I agree with the above post. There definately doesn't sem to be much trading happening at the moment. No one wants to accept an offer anymore, so even if the lines are close it doesn't mean anything if no one is accepting. Matchbook should do away with this before all the scalpers find somewhere else to move their money around. Maybe they should charge 10% of profits for those of us who bet both sides of the line.

[Dark Horse]

Has this part been posted yet?

LIVE TRADING RATES
In response to client feedback, Matchbook will reduce live rates to 0.5% accept side, -0.2% offer side. Our current goal is to encourage more live market-making, which we hope outweighs any cost increases to accept-side-only, multi-team traders.

[BouncedCheck]

Maybe they should charge 10% of profits for those of us who bet both sides of the line.

It seems like it wouldn't be the easist thing in the world for them to go in and charge different commission rates to different people based on their individual betting history. Wouldn't it be easier to simply charge 2% commission on the win of each individual bet, rather than on the net win? Or is that what they were already doing before they changed the entire system this week?

I don't see why a scalper should get a break on commission just because he took both sides. That's rewarding people for taking minimal risk. If they would have decided to simply charge 2% on the win amount of each individual bet, completely independent of all other bets, they could have ensured their profits would remain high.

I think they made this change to protect the market makers, but it's going to backfire. I've only been betting for the last 48 hours or so, but it's been extremely easy to undercut them by making an offer in the middle of an 8-cent line, at least when betting extremely small amounts. I've been taking their suggestion to "make several $1 or $2 bets" to heart.