Is 18th hole Sportsbook safe?

**johnpendred** · 07-10-13, 10:43 AM

18th hole wise I have been up n down with them.
loved them they paid quick and paid me a decent amount.
I was one of the idiots that took advantage of the bad line.
i apologized and they paid me the remaining 7k but still gave me the boot.
not gonna lie bad mouthed them after that, as I thought it was their fault as they posted the bad line.
after talking directly to the GM through email, which took weeks, they have allowed me to open up my account again.
the only reason i really fought this was cause I have won a nice amount and they have not touched my limits.
if I would ever be able to get my limits back up at 5dimes that would be amazing, but that shipped has sailed.
all in all, 18th hole will pay, customer service is great, just wish they had lower juice on tennis totals, but it's cool. They have NFL preseason and week one NCAAF lines, money lines, and totals up so I will be taking advantage of some super week lines.

**bobbywaves** · 08-01-13, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by touchback

OK... about arbing. When we say "arb the bonus out" we actually mean the whole balance. That is the principle and the bonus at another funded out. Why you ask... well, arbers usually look for a large bonus of 100% or more which usually has a fairly large rollover or maybe you would prefer to try and withdrawal from a more established or trusted service. Really what they are doing is picking up a large bonus at multiple places and arbing them all out. So shop A 100% and shop B 100% or even C or D... which with methodical line comparison and action you will eventually convert it all out and withdrawal. This is what Euro arbers do and why bonus shops stopped taking on Euro accounts or heavily limiting them as of a couple years ago. Meaning either no Euro account or reduced bonuses at maybe 10% or 20% and being limited quickly... a good arber cannot be beat by the house, it is a matter of which service the arber chooses to bust and which ones pays. Also, arbers action are not necessarily sharp, so they are difficult to spot by risk teams because they are line comparing and not being wise. A professional, an example is Fishead who has claimed having 12 to 15 funded outs at any one time during the year, can easily arb out with this many available services and lines a bonus quite quickly and spread it out so no particular service will see it by looking at a wagering history. Being a Pro is also about being able to keep a good out which means not giving them (any particular service) an a55 whipping in any given 30 day period. If you did this with 18th and converted out you could ask for the bonus again and probably get it and by the 3rd time of getting it again could turn around and withdrawal on them since you are now profiled most likely as a hamburger. Pro wagering is not just about picking a line that is going to win and putting as much action as you possibly can. It is a long term, well thought out and executed job that generates a long term livelihood... So, one type of Pro is basically going to have 10 or more funded accounts and is going to try and pick up as many huge bonuses as possible not caring about the rollover and try and convert the bonuses out at his withdrawal shops while trying to get some locks down. All the while not hitting any particular withdrawal service too hard to be limited or kicked out. With this many services you can spread out the payouts as well as keep them reasonable and do it day after day, week after week and month after month... combined it can support a financially nice life style.

Everything you stated TB makes sense & I understand the concept of arbing the bonus out to a well established book. However with that said, there's still no guarantee you will lose the first few bets(arbs) at the bonus book. Which could possibly leave you with a high balance at a less established bonus book. 18th hole e-mailed me again today with a nice promo, so I'm starting to think a small deposit would definitely be worth the risk.

Are you ready for some football?? 18thHoleSports is the only book to have Spreads, Totals, and Moneylines for:
1) ALL Week One NFL regular season games
2) ALL Week One NFL preseason game
3) 40 NCAA Football games for Week One

Deposit between August 1st and 3rd and receive 200% in bonuses!!!! Must use promo code: GF771
a) 100% cash bonus with only a 10 time rollover
b) 100% free play

Remember 18thHoleSportsbook is the exclusive book in USA, Japan, and Australia that ....
1) Offers 10 cent MLB lines up to -299 and 20 cents on 300 or higher
2) Offers deposits thru Moneypak
3) And have the HIGHEST LIMITS in the industry
4) Has SAME DAY FREE PAYOUTS if requested by 3pmEST

To deposit email me back or call 1-866-675-1118. You may also email CustomerService@18thHoleSports.com
<small><small>www.twitter.com/18thHoleSports
www.18thHoleSportsbook.me
18th Hole Sports, Inc © 1999-2013</small></small>

**bobbywaves** · 08-13-13, 11:57 PM

Pleased to report I received my 1st payout request. $950 same day via MP, with no issues. I had my doubts about 18th, but to me the rewards far outweigh the slight risk. This payout increases my confidence using them. I'm no shill, just reporting my experience.

**jjgold** · 08-14-13, 06:10 AM

Would not play there even with free $1000

Pass

**Rangers901** · 08-14-13, 10:04 AM

Wow, you got $950. Of course they're going to pay out these small amounts. Football starts in 2 weeks, they're probably happy you asked for a small payout so that more suckers will go and deposit at this book. Try requesting 4 or 5 figures, then we'll see. IMO, there's nothing worth playing at this fly by night book.

**johnpendred** · 08-14-13, 10:21 AM

Does 25k into my Wells Fargo count?

**Rangers901** · 08-14-13, 12:18 PM

No, because you're a worthless shill looking to maximize the profits of your Ponzi scheme. I bet you've withdrawn $150,000 from this book and they love you, in fact, the probably follow the same model as Pinnacle. I'm sure since you're so "sharp" you can assist 18thhole in setting the sharpest lines in the industry which allows them to offer the highest limits online.

Let me ask, does 18thhole accept CC deposits?

**Rangers901** · 08-14-13, 12:44 PM

18th hole does not accept CC deposits, they only accept **, **********, no Money Pack. To me, this is a clear indication that this isn't a safe book. IMO, scam and fly by night books won't offer CC deposit methods because they don't want to be slammed with charge backs once they steal money from their players. Again, that's not fact, just one of the criteria I use for new books.

**lecubs28** · 08-14-13, 01:57 PM

no.

**bobbywaves** · 08-14-13, 03:45 PM

My agent said they are working on accepting plastic by Labor Day. Regardless whether it happens or not, Money Pack works gr8.

**TheMoneyShot** · 08-14-13, 07:14 PM

18th hole 19th hole 20th hole... looks like Hollywood Sportsbook layout...

Forget about trusting them with your money... can't even trust their servers when your computer navigates the damn thing. Looks like adware central.

**bobbywaves** · 08-14-13, 09:24 PM

When you have an account # & password, you can navigate their website fine.

**lecubs28** · 08-16-13, 12:51 PM

bobby what were the fees for your deposit + withdrawal?

**bobbywaves** · 08-16-13, 01:08 PM

Free for both deposit & withdrawal. MP deposit card cost me like $4.65, so they added $5 to my $1,000 deposit. You get a free withdrawal every week with these guys! But if you use MP instead of ** or **, it will cost you $3 to buy reloadable MP DC & $2 to withdraw from any ATM.

**docholiday** · 08-19-13, 04:56 PM

The 18th is a SCAM! Do not send money to the scammer Leo. Filed this complaint on 6-6-13 with SBR. Matthew with SBR was told by Leo on 6-6-13 that balance would be paid in full in two weeks. Over 2 months now and Leo will not respond to SBR emails or myself.
$6913 is the balance.
They closed my account on 6-3 for some B.S. story about betting on a bad line. They owe me a balance of $6913 and said check would be mailed and I would receive in 7 to 10 days. I called Leo Valverde on Wednesday and he said it will be 6 to 8 weeks before check is received that I pissed off the owner. Absolutely false. I did contact John Amato of Bethorizon since 18th is using their servers. John called Leo and discussed my complaint and Leo called me a scumbag. John said he would contact me back as he informed 18th to settle this or he will pull the plug on them.
I signed up initially with $1800 ** cash plus fees and received an $1800 cash bonus with a 10x roll.
I met the requirements and received a ** payout last week for $950. This week I wanted a payout and the account was closed. Remaining balance $6913. John Amato had received another complaint from a player that was stiffed for $1500. Contact Leo Valverde 866-675-1118 and email leo@18thholesports.com. Claims that a Luke Soto is the GM. email isLucas.soto@18thholesports.com
I do have a string of emails from Leo since the day I inquired and opened an account at 18thholesports.com. Any other questions please let me know and thanks for your help.

They are using Bethorizon's servers. If you have an issue contact John Amato at Bethorizon. Email is caribtwo@hotmail.com

**bobbywaves** · 08-20-13, 01:07 AM

Unfortunately for you Doc, there's 2 sides to every story. Now Leo's side & the truth, you're buried chump:

This guy has threatened to go to the forums for the last 2months. Five total people bet that bad line. All five accounts closed right away. 3 of the 5 were classy about it, and apologized. One of the three went as far as writing a long email to our owner and the owner and GM allowed that particular customer to come back and wager with us. 2 of the 5 decided to threaten me, our GM, abuse our customer service staff, threaten to kill my kids, and all that ridiculous stuff. Therefore those two their accounts were closed and not paid. That is final decision and will not be over turned. It is one thing to cheat and steal. but a whole different can of worms when you act the way they did. This guy has emailed me everyday for the last two months threatening to do what he did (going to forums) and it really doesn't matter what he posts.

Here is this particular customers wager placed that day, as I really wont say his name. But you can ask him his account # to verify this wager. Over/ under was supposed to be 8 -110.

EH215772

INTERNET/-1

Ticket #21086038
June-03 16:05:00

MLB

STRAIGHT BET
[952] TOTAL u18-110 (MIA MARLINS vrs PHI PHILLIES) ( T. KOEHLER -R / K. KENDRICK -R )

5500/5000

5000

WIN
WIN

June-03

**stevex** · 08-20-13, 01:37 AM

Boom. Buried. And there going on the other forums bashing 18th for not paying them. You max bet an OBVIOUS bad line and instead of just admitting that you bet it and accepting a payout you go and threaten there kids?

I knew about this story 2 months ago and still deposited there, ran my balance up to over 5 k and took a same day payout. Ended up busting out, but in this case, the book is clearly in the right.

**docholiday** · 08-20-13, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by stevex

Boom. Buried. And there going on the other forums bashing 18th for not paying them. You max bet an OBVIOUS bad line and instead of just admitting that you bet it and accepting a payout you go and threaten there kids?

I knew about this story 2 months ago and still deposited there, ran my balance up to over 5 k and took a same day payout. Ended up busting out, but in this case, the book is clearly in the right.

Leo quit posting under all these different names. The scam is over and nobody believes your lies.
SBR can confirm the balance owed of $6913 because you told them money would be paid in two weeks
from the date of June 6th. You won't return their emails either. You continue to make harassing phone
calls to my cell. You stole my deposit and winnings period.

**docholiday** · 08-20-13, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by bobbywaves

Unfortunately for you Doc, there's 2 sides to every story. Now Leo's side & the truth, you're buried chump:

This guy has threatened to go to the forums for the last 2months. Five total people bet that bad line. All five accounts closed right away. 3 of the 5 were classy about it, and apologized. One of the three went as far as writing a long email to our owner and the owner and GM allowed that particular customer to come back and wager with us. 2 of the 5 decided to threaten me, our GM, abuse our customer service staff, threaten to kill my kids, and all that ridiculous stuff. Therefore those two their accounts were closed and not paid. That is final decision and will not be over turned. It is one thing to cheat and steal. but a whole different can of worms when you act the way they did. This guy has emailed me everyday for the last two months threatening to do what he did (going to forums) and it really doesn't matter what he posts.

Here is this particular customers wager placed that day, as I really wont say his name. But you can ask him his account # to verify this wager. Over/ under was supposed to be 8 -110.

EH215772

INTERNET/-1

Ticket #21086038
June-03 16:05:00

MLB

STRAIGHT BET
[952] TOTAL u18-110 (MIA MARLINS vrs PHI PHILLIES) ( T. KOEHLER -R / K. KENDRICK -R )

5500/5000

5000

WIN
WIN

June-03

Nice copy and paste fake wager! Nobody believes this scam. You have no customer staff or any employees.
You are posing as a sportsbook acting as a stiff agent.
Leo quit posting under all these different names. The scam is over and nobody believes your lies.
SBR can confirm the balance owed of $6913 because you told them money would be paid in two weeks
from the date of June 6th. You won't return their emails either. You continue to make harassing phone
calls to my cell. You stole my deposit and winnings period.

**SBR Forum** · 08-20-13, 08:50 AM

There's a player being slow-paid for over a month. He apparently ballooned his balance by betting an advantageous line, but would still be owed some legit funds after subtracting the bad line.

**lecubs28** · 08-20-13, 08:55 AM

i do believe leo when he says you bet a bad line, and that you were a dick about it, threatening his family etc. the problem is that that still isn't an excuse to not pay you. would be nice to see someone set the record straight here...why isn't this customer just getting closed out and his balance sent to him?

**Bet10Heinekens** · 08-20-13, 09:47 AM

You deserve to get stiffed when you bet an obvious bad line.

Leo need to post a screenshot of the bad bet if he want to prove his case, because posting a ticket can be altered.

EH215772 INTERNET/-1 Ticket #21086038
June-03 16:05:00 MLB STRAIGHT BET
[952] TOTAL u8-110 (MIA MARLINS vrs PHI PHILLIES) ( T. KOEHLER -R / K. KENDRICK -R ) 5500/5000 5000 WIN
WIN June-03

**lecubs28** · 08-20-13, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by Bet10Heinekens

You deserve to get stiffed when you bet an obvious bad line.

no. you shouldn't bet a bad line, but if you do, that doesn't warrant getting stiffed

**darkhat** · 08-20-13, 10:07 AM

edit...nevermind

**stevex** · 08-20-13, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by SBR Forum

There's a player being slow-paid for over a month. He apparently ballooned his balance by betting an advantageous line, but would still be owed some legit funds after subtracting the bad line.

But threatening them and there family's is the right way to go about it?

**Fitz030808** · 08-20-13, 10:31 AM

Threatening family members is obviously beyond stupid. However, you still have to pay the guy his initial deposit. That's not the books money to keep. You want to confiscate winnings for betting an obvious bad line? I have no problem with that. The initial deposit needs to be refunded though. That's just bad business.

**docholiday** · 08-20-13, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by stevex

But threatening them and there family's is the right way to go about it?

1.Nobody threatened a family member
2.Bad line was not bet-Ask for a payout and account is closed immediately and the bad line bet excuse B.S. magically appears.
3.Balance owed is $6913- $1800 cash bonus $850 deposit plus $4263 in winnings accumulated over a few weeks. 10x roll was met.
4.When a player risk his money and wins they deserve to get paid. Pretty simple.
5.SBR complaints confirmed with Leo on June 6th that in fact balance owed was $6913 and would be paid by June 20th. Leo will not return SBR emails.

**bobbywaves** · 08-20-13, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by docholiday

Nice copy and paste fake wager! Nobody believes this scam. You have no customer staff or any employees.
You are posing as a sportsbook acting as a stiff agent.
Leo quit posting under all these different names. The scam is over and nobody believes your lies.
SBR can confirm the balance owed of $6913 because you told them money would be paid in two weeks
from the date of June 6th. You won't return their emails either. You continue to make harassing phone
calls to my cell. You stole my deposit and winnings period.

Sure, whatever you say chump...bobbywaves is Leo.

SBR can easily confirm my identity. Leo's my agent, he's not posting idiot. Post #156 clearly explains what happened, via the e-mail I received from Leo. If you apologized for betting bad line, you would have been paid like the other 3 players. However, you chose to handle it differently & now paying the price for your actions. I've been paid along with countless others, since we don't take shots & make threats.

**stevex** · 08-20-13, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by bobbywaves

Sure, whatever you say chump...bobbywaves is Leo.

SBR can easily confirm my identity. Leo's my agent, he's not posting idiot. Post #156 clearly explains what happened, via the e-mail I received from Leo. If you apologized for betting bad line, you would have been paid like the other 3 players. However, you chose to handle it differently & now paying the price for your actions. I've been paid along with countless others, since we don't take shots & make threats.

Bingo. End of story.

**Rangers901** · 08-20-13, 01:09 PM

Every thread bobbywaves posts in about another book I'll simply paste to this thread. Bobby is clearly 100% invested in 18th in some way shape or form, if he didn't, why would he be so interested in this case and what has unfolded. On top of that, if someone at the book, whether the owner or not, is giving out personal information and information about a case, that should supply you with all the information you need.

**bobbywaves** · 08-20-13, 01:24 PM

Yeah, you go do that Rangers...I play at 18th & Leo's my agent, so obviously I'm invested.

If docholiday's story had an ounce of truth, I obviously wouldn't be playing there.

And yes, I was supplied all the information I needed to make an informed decision.

**johnpendred** · 08-20-13, 01:25 PM

what personal info did 18th give? he even said "I wont really say his name"

**johnpendred** · 08-20-13, 01:27 PM

rangers901 = hankwins since he got the boot around the same time account was registered

**iceman9870** · 08-20-13, 02:04 PM

can sbr do a review of 18th hole?

**brownsfan** · 02-03-15, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by iceman9870

can sbr do a review of 18th hole?

Did they ever do one?