BetRevolution Scam: Sportsbook winnings confiscated for Syndicate Betting

[DJ Dalamar]

For the record I agree with the Heritage ruling. I also "understood" why EZ pay did what they did Cory is obviously a scammer.

Let me ask you something though Shari. We have talked in the past about how many people are trying to scam SBR everyday. I make money off SBR and almost made my wife account to take advantage of the poker before I saw it was against the rules.

But lets say I did and we use our dual accounts to circumvent the limits on the SBR book. We run up about 10-20K worth of points between us. When we get caught what happens? Do we get to keep our points to cash out in the store?

Obviously not the exact same thing but very similar.

[gmcarroll33]

However I haven't seen one person say that BR is in the wrong for only wanting certain players at their book. Hell the exact opposite is what got BI into trouble so why would anyone argue with BR on that point?

Betislands failed because they were always nothing more than an underfunded 4-5 man shop offering a candy store of free half points, reduced juice, and great bonuses when the book was always nothing more than just a previous shit rated jazz brand. Meanwhile we had your former sharpest posters and best mod spotting the inevitable downfall of this book from the get go, but they were told to shut up as this was a prime opportunity to collect advertising and affiliate money after greek/betjam had just left the us market. Sbr swept all that information under the rug and reopened betisland's previous d- rating to a solid c, when they were being managed by nothing more than a tattoed idiot with no successful experience whatsoever in running a sportsbook, and in the process everybody was told everybody that Jon was the owner (iirc) and this book was backed by well respected people in the industry. After the failure we all get told that Jon was nothing more than a brand/marketing manager and there's no mention of who these well respected money backers ever were despite numerous posters asking for information. That's at least how I'll always remember betislands and what really got them and everybody dumb enough to trust sbr's ratings into trouble

At least you still post under your own name and aren't hiding I guess! That's more than some people can say

[shari91]

For the record I agree with the Heritage ruling. I also "understood" why EZ pay did what they did Cory is obviously a scammer.

Let me ask you something though Shari. We have talked in the past about how many people are trying to scam SBR everyday. I make money off SBR and almost made my wife account to take advantage of the poker before I saw it was against the rules.

But lets say I did and we use our dual accounts to circumvent the limits on the SBR book. We run up about 10-20K worth of points between us. When we get caught what happens? Do we get to keep our points to cash out in the store?

Obviously not the exact same thing but very similar.

No because we have it clearly posted in our rules: 2) Posters that share the same household may not both receive SBR points. The second account will have loyalty points withheld. If this rule is violated, or if SBR determines that one user is controlling multiple accounts, SBR reserves the right to remove points from all accounts. In addition, offenders are subject to loss of their SBR posting accounts at SBR's discretion.

Those rules are in the FAQs at the bottom of every forum page and may even appear when people register (can't remember that far back).

[DJ Dalamar]

Exactly Shari and somewhere in all this mess is a list of BR rules that say if a group is found to be working together they can be booted and the players funds confiscated.

[shari91]

Betislands failed because they were always nothing more than an underfunded 4-5 man shop offering a candy store of free half points, reduced juice, and great bonuses when the book was always nothing more than just a previous shit rated jazz brand. Meanwhile we had your former sharpest posters and best mod spotting the inevitable downfall of this book from the get go, but they were told to shut up as this was a prime opportunity to collect advertising and affiliate money after greek/betjam had just left the us market. Sbr swept all that information under the rug and reopened betisland's previous d- rating to a solid c, when they were being managed by nothing more than a tattoed idiot with no successful experience whatsoever in running a sportsbook, and in the process everybody was told everybody that Jon was the owner (iirc) and this book was backed by well respected people in the industry. After the failure we all get told that Jon was nothing more than a brand/marketing manager and there's no mention of who these well respected money backers ever were despite numerous posters asking for information. That's at least how I'll always remember betislands and what really got them and everybody dumb enough to trust sbr's ratings into trouble

At least you still post under your own name and aren't hiding I guess! That's more than some people can say

I think on some points we're kind of saying the same thing. Some of the people you're referring to were telling me to try to find a way to get into BI (very difficult living in Australia) because all the things they normally got limited or booted for elsewhere wasn't happening there. Some took that as a once in a decade opportunity and hit them hard while others were more mindful the whole way through because they were skeptical. Regardless, the one thing that strikes me as even somewhat relevant between the two books is that what BR's trying to protect themselves from, I haven't seen anyone on SBR disagree with. A book can choose to deal with whomever they want. But telling people they're part of a syndicate when I at least haven't seen any proof doesn't jive with me. Syndicate is a strong word and a major difference between people sharing plays or hitting off lines when half this bloody forum does. That's my only personal disagreement with what BR has done. Pay them and boot them. If they come back or they can prove within a reasonable doubt that they used beards after being booted, keep their cash. I'd support that.

[shari91]

Exactly Shari and somewhere in all this mess is a list of BR rules that say if a group is found to be working together they can be booted and the players funds confiscated.

Yes. But that group hasn't been found to be working together to any normal gambler. Two of them have been found to know each other on social media only. I can list 40+ posters who I send tennis plays to and we often bet at the same book. Are we working together to try to scam a book or are we all betting there because they have the best odds? I can also list at least 15 Think Tank guys who are part of email groups that alert each other to off lines at books. Are they working in a group? It's no different to someone at a casino coming up to you and saying the dealer at blackjack table 8 is on a good roll for the player or loose with his cards. They're not in a concerted effort to work together. Hell people post threads on SBR about books with off lines and arbs all the time, let alone steam plays. I have a bunch of people on a Facebook account especially for SBR. If a group of us bet the same thing at the same book and you could see we're all connected via Facebook are we a syndicate? This is where you need to make sure.

[BranchDavidian]

Note: I didn't mean to imply that "I" am a high roller that needs beards just using it as an example. I'm sorry if that was confusing for people I thought it was clear. BTW pro gamblers in Vegas still use offshore at least according to the books I've read.

The argument "They wouldn't have booted them if they lost" is pretty stupid of course they wouldn't have. You don't even get noticed till you start winning.

As I said in a early post I love a lot of what SBR does but the high horse they are climbing up on here is a bit nauseating.

There is nothing "stupid" about that argument. If the book is going to accept the losses but not pay out the winners, then the book is free-rolling the players. If this is alright with you, then the only apt place for your "stupid" adjective to apply ---- is to You.

[DJ Dalamar]

Yes. But that group hasn't been found to be working together to any normal gambler. Two of them have been found to know each other. I can list 40+ posters who I send tennis plays to and we often bet at the same book. Are we working together to try to scam a book or are we all betting there because they have the best odds? I can also list at least 15 Think Tank guys who are part of email groups that alert each other to off lines at books. Are they working in a group? It's no different to someone at a casino coming up to you and saying the dealer at blackjack table 8 is on a good roll for the player or loose with his cards. They're not in a concerted effort to work together. Hell people post threads on SBR about books with off lines all the time. I have a bunch of people on a Facebook account especially for SBR. If a group of us bet the same thing at the same book and you could see we're all connected via Facebook are we a group? This is where you need to make sure.

I don't want to get into weather "this group" was working together or not because none of us simply have enough info. We would have to see every bet for months on end and IP addy's ect before we could really say one way or the other. I tend to believe BR is pretty darn sure that they are and adding the fact they lied about knowing each other......

I guess all I'm saying in the cases of Heritage, EZ and now BR is none of these books have had complaints before or since the incidents. Now all of the sudden one problem that we don't have all the info on and all of the sudden these are awful books. Honestly it may make you feel better cause obviously they arn't making the same mistakes BI did.

The interesting thing in all this is after these books get dragged through the mud they obviously lose some busniess however the scammers and sharps probably aren't trying to hit them either. I wonder how it balances out in the end.

[shari91]

I don't want to get into weather "this group" was working together or not because none of us simply have enough info. We would have to see every bet for months on end and IP addy's ect before we could really say one way or the other. I tend to believe BR is pretty darn sure that they are and adding the fact they lied about knowing each other......

I guess all I'm saying in the cases of Heritage, EZ and now BR is none of these books have had complaints before or since the incidents. Now all of the sudden one problem that we don't have all the info on and all of the sudden these are awful books. Honestly it may make you feel better cause obviously they arn't making the same mistakes BI did.

The interesting thing in all this is after these books get dragged through the mud they obviously lose some busniess however the scammers and sharps probably aren't trying to hit them either. I wonder how it balances out in the end.

I don't think anyone is saying this is an awful book although I don't check out other forums any more so who knows. I think the way they handled this one situation was shithouse. They could've sent (and still can!) a very clear statement that steam chasers and/or anyone they suspect is a part of a syndicate isn't welcome yet do the right thing by paying these guys out. Of course we'd all be wondering what their definition of a syndicate entails but I do trust they'd spell that out clearly after this. I also think it's very prudent to do due diligence and follow your gut with any poster's comment about a book. As gmcarroll said we had our "best mod" touting BI as recently as Oct 24th when things started to go south in November it seems and although he had a big balance there I do believe he was genuine with his praise. I can't truly say that anyone here or probably at any major gambling forum would try to mislead people. Shit happens and things go pear shaped very quickly and unfortunately forums aren't always in the position to do much about it or save everyone despite their best efforts. At the end of the day you have to do what feels right for your gut and your financial situation. Books may seem to be dragged through the mud but if they're good books overall, they'll shake it off because people flock to what's best for them personally. Heritage and EZ aren't suffering and if BR is just as solid they'll be just fine.

[DJ Dalamar]

Good post Shari I did have to LOL a bit at "no one calling them a awful book" while SBR is hanging that F rating though.

[gmcarroll33]

As gmcarroll said we had our "best mod" touting BI as recently as Oct 24th when things started to go south in November it seems and although he had a big balance there I do believe he was genuine with his praise. I can't truly say that anyone here or probably at any major gambling forum would try to mislead people.

While that was how it ended up going down with J7, that's not what I just said. I said J7 and well respected posters like Rickysteve and Durito said it was basic common sense that this was a business model disaster waiting to happen, and the general relationship to jazz (whose reputation was awful at the time) was enough reason to stay away or tread with extreme caution with BI.

We don't disagree on BR ftr. I don't see how they have a business model that can succeed either. A square book with a cash bonus ranging from 65-100%. What could possibly go wrong

[shari91]

Good post Shari I did have to LOL a bit at "no one calling them a awful book" while SBR is hanging that F rating though.

Good post Shari I did have to LOL a bit at "no one calling them a awful book" while SBR is hanging that F rating though.

Well to be fair though what they're doing is D+ material (they're not F) because any of us could find ourselves in the same boat whether purposely or inadvertently. If anyone is at risk of being accused of being a part of a syndicate - when many of us do the same thing these guys did - then that's very scary. I'd shit myself if suddenly my balance was confiscated from a book because of guys I gave tennis plays to who happened to be a Facebook friend. However from my admittedly 2nd hand knowledge of talks between SBR and BR these guys aren't jackoffs... regardless of what I or anyone thinks about the current outcome I believe things will be improved to avoid situations like this in the future. Just like with Griffin's book where he didn't realise his tennis rules were wacked/non existent until a situation arose and I let him know, I think this will only help out BR going forward now that they're facing the backlash to their current rules. When this gets sorted properly I have no doubt their rating will change.

[Fishhead]

If one has funds there, they better start scrambling quickly................................. ....amazing how this crap never ends.

[Shag Carpet]

There is nothing "stupid" about that argument. If the book is going to accept the losses but not pay out the winners, then the book is free-rolling the players. If this is alright with you, then the only apt place for your "stupid" adjective to apply ---- is to You.

Nothing more needs to be said than this.

[shari91]

While that was how it ended up going down with J7, that's not what I just said. I said J7 and well respected posters like Rickysteve and Durito said it was basic common sense that this was a business model disaster waiting to happen, and the general relationship to jazz (whose reputation was awful at the time) was enough reason to stay away or tread with extreme caution with BI.

We don't disagree on BR ftr. I don't see how they have a business model that can succeed either. A square book with a cash bonus ranging from 65-100%. What could possibly go wrong

Sorry gm... I'm chopping and changing posts between my computer and phone because both are dying so I apologise if I wasn't clear. I was trying to refer to your saying "meanwhile we had your former sharpest posters and best mod spouting the inevitable downfall of this book from the get go" when that was most definitely not what he was saying as recently as the end of October. And I take his word at face value, even considering the size of his balance there.

As for BR I know nothing about their financing so I'm not going to judge... if they hadn't have not paid these people I probably wouldn't have even thought of the book for awhile so I'm not going to proceed to say yea or nay. Massive cash bonuses are a big scare for me but I know my sharp friends have made a mint from situations like that. Every one has to make their own call based on their own risk tolerance and finances.

[Peregrine Stoop]

I don't want to get into weather "this group" was working together or not because none of us simply have enough info. We would have to see every bet for months on end and IP addy's ect before we could really say one way or the other. I tend to believe BR is pretty darn sure that they are and adding the fact they lied about knowing each other......

Well, the issue at hand is "this group."

Why won't BetRev release Behnke's plays to him?
BetRev's stats on this are smoke and mirrors, that's why. They don't want everyone to laugh at how incompetent their risk management methods really are and expose that they just outright stole money.

"this group" are just regular guys with regular full-time jobs who have the same hobby of trying to win at sportsbetting while watching a few games and learned to approach sportsbetting the same way by following the dominate strategy in a forum about sportsbetting.

Let's say SBR was 1/100th the size it is today. You and I are both posters. A general consensus emerges on where value lies in sportsbetting among 20% of the posters. If we end up betting the same things hundreds or thousands of miles apart from our own separate bankrolls with no share of the others' action, are we a syndicate? Because, that is what BetRev is saying. They say this would give them the right to seize our entire balances.

This isn't a syndicate. This isn't bearding. This isn't limit circumventing.

This is outright theft by a book who doesn't want to pay out to winners.

[5mike5]

If one has funds there, they better start scrambling quickly................................. ....amazing how this crap never ends.

[looneytunes]

Playing at poorly rated, 100% bonus books = surprises. They should of booted and paid, but they didnt. Those who are looking for a reputable book wouldnt have a horse in this race. Those looking for and edge,with soft lines ,and ridiculous bonuses probably will.

[erickvivar]

I love how SBR try to turn things around. If you look on the threads here about BR, the first thing people were complaining about was the "humongous" roll overs they need to go through to complete those cash bonuses, then the high fees for payouts, then the fact they dont give free payouts, but now, suddenly the cash bonuses were sweeter than previously mentioned, their roll overs werent that bad, the fees are fine and the business model was just like BetIslands were everything was for free.

You are trying to cover funding with the fact they don't want to pay a syndicate. He was getting paid, but he wanted more and start using his "buddies" to go over limits and now they got caught.

I wish you guys were watching BetIslands as BR is watching their players, I mean you guys were affiliates, you guys had access to their transactions, winning and losing amounts and do nothing. Saw the bleed and never even asked about it. You were not able to watch your own dog.

The worst part is SBR hasnt shown a single piece of data that could explain the numbers of this syndicate, do what you guys didnt do with BI, challenge the numbers. Behnke is at least saying they were most of the bets on half time, if that is the case, lets check them out and if they are not, then we know how things are going.

[shari91]

I love how SBR try to turn things around. If you look on the threads here about BR, the first thing people were complaining about was the "humongous" roll overs they need to go through to complete those cash bonuses, then the high fees for payouts, then the fact they dont give free payouts, but now, suddenly the cash bonuses were sweeter than previously mentioned, their roll overs werent that bad, the fees are fine and the business model was just like BetIslands were everything was for free.

You are trying to cover funding with the fact they don't want to pay a syndicate. He was getting paid, but he wanted more and start using his "buddies" to go over limits and now they got caught.

I wish you guys were watching BetIslands as BR is watching their players, I mean you guys were affiliates, you guys had access to their transactions, winning and losing amounts and do nothing. Saw the bleed and never even asked about it. You were not able to watch your own dog.

The worst part is SBR hasnt shown a single piece of data that could explain the numbers of this syndicate, do what you guys didnt do with BI, challenge the numbers. Behnke is at least saying they were most of the bets on half time, if that is the case, lets check them out and if they are not, then we know how things are going.

You wish a forum was watching a sportsbook as much as a sportsbook is watching their players after the fact?!
Do you realise what you're saying and how non-sensical it is?

SBR has tried 3 times to get BR to talk after they released that gibberish at EOG. You seem to know everything... get someone from BR to speak with SBR.

SBR hasn't shown a single piece of data because none of the info BR has produced leads to a syndicate. SBR IS challenging the numbers but sadly has no access to it.

Are you talking about another case altogether?

[erickvivar]

Ok, so wait. You guys were getting paid by BetIslands because you guys were affiliates. But when it was going down you guys did nothing, even though you guys had the information at hand. Thats makes a lot of sense right? or you are right, it will not make sense because it affects you business.

Or are you talking about some other BetIslands altogether?

[shari91]

Ok, so wait. You guys were getting paid by BetIslands because you guys were affiliates. But when it was going down you guys did nothing, even though you guys had the information at hand. Thats makes a lot of sense right? or you are right, it will not make sense because it affects you business.

Or are you talking about some other BetIslands altogether?

What do you expect a forum to do? What power do you actually think a forum has over an offshore book? If you think a book rocks up to a pissy forum and says "yeah we're fukked" you're out of your mind.

A forum can't save a book, bail people out, can pretend the book never existed. If a forum has enough notice then they can warn their posters. SBR didn't have that. What bloody world are you living in and maybe it's time you declare who you work for for everyone before going any further, no? Everyone knows I'm an SBR employee. It's only fair.

[The Kraken]

Ok, so wait. You guys were getting paid by BetIslands because you guys were affiliates. But when it was going down you guys did nothing, even though you guys had the information at hand. Thats makes a lot of sense right? or you are right, it will not make sense because it affects you business.

Or are you talking about some other BetIslands altogether?

Aw, yes... The strawman argument. Your argument with Shari is lost and you know it. So you do the next best thing, divert the conversation elsewhere. Makes sense

[BigDeem5]

I love seeing Shari get angry, you can see the vemen in her posts.

Nice to see you posting, Shari.

Cliff notes:

Shari says ' SBR Didn't know BI was going to close up'

Also says ' BetRev should pay the players, then boot them'

Other people disagree with her on issues... hence 5 pagess

[jazy989]

Who cares about these clowns. Sbr is a joke... Who doesn't know what the top books are has no busness playing offshore. And I sent betrevolution some money today. These idiots got what they deserved

[tto827]

If one has funds there, they better start scrambling quickly................................. ....amazing how this crap never ends.

And posts like this begin the rush to remove funds that ultimately bury a book.

Were you telling everyone to take their money out of Heritage during the Cory fiasco, or 5dimes when the wrong payout issue occurred? One incident doesn't make a book insolvent. BetRev is taking a stand that these guys knowingly broke the rules so that people know not to fukk with them.

Just like Shari pointed out that SBR would confiscate the points in DJ's example, BetRev believes they have a case against these people, and they aren't just going to cave like some other books (now non-existant) would have done.

[milwaukee mike]

I love seeing Shari get angry, you can see the vemen in her posts.

Nice to see you posting, Shari.

Cliff notes:

Shari says ' SBR Didn't know BI was going to close up'

Also says ' BetRev should pay the players, then boot them'

Other people disagree with her on issues... hence 5 pagess

is that a mixture of venom and semen

[tto827]

is that a mixture of venom and semen

Figured he was going for venom, but you added a nice touch there

[stevex]

Just made a deposit to BetRev for a 100% bonus...

Business as usual for me.

[touchback]

If one has funds there, they better start scrambling quickly................................. ....amazing how this crap never ends.

HHmmmm a wise man once saaid... oh, I mean fishhead...

[raydog]

did they pay peeiq his 22k ish? and they dont want to pay the expected beards? is that where this stands?

[darkhat]

can you imagine filing a complaint and when asked where your funds are you have to say betlatina?

You can't make this stuff up

[touchback]

Might as well be wagerchica or actionmuchacha

[dark star]

You guys are quick for your statements/observations on Betrevolution...too bad you lead people to the Betislands slaughterhouse with out any consideration for the players..No one takes you serious

[Chi_archie]

Who cares about these clowns. Sbr is a joke... Who doesn't know what the top books are has no busness playing offshore. And I sent betrevolution some money today. These idiots got what they deserved

RIP Jaz man