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Considering ur the very few who see it that way, your sad not me! I put it all out there! If a book refuses to make corrections when they r pointed out there is something fishy going on there! These mistakes can intentionally put out there by books to screw up accounts giving them reason to not pay out large balances! U need to understand I continuously funded my acct until this bet was won! This was a brand new acct and I always had my own $ at risk! I lost 700$ of deposits in a couple days.Comment -
That was in their legit casino..don't forget about the blatantly rigged casino which was just swept under the rug.
BLR Technologies software cheating players at 5Dimes
That being said I don't really think 5dimes is out to steal from players. I think the way 5dimes offers the low juice and all the betting options while still serving the U.S. market is by cutting costs to the bone, which leads to shady third party software providers and incompetent employees. That or Tony is just greedy and too cheap to pay for competent employees and third party software providers. Since no other books can match his low juice or betting options I'm going with 5 dimes business model being like walmart. Low prices for customers by keeping operational costs to a minimum.
Still tony is the man at the top, buck stops with him. So his employees fuckking up is on him and he in no way should be threatening the customer for his own fuckupp. But at least he keeps it entertaining
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Dan- Do you have a copy of any other chat sessions with 5Dimes?Comment -
its not the same as a banking mistake because the customer confirmed the odds twice and as mentioned there is a risk/reward thing involved. i don't understand why it falls on the player if the customer service department screws up. for all the customer knows 5dimes could have changed their payouts. it doesn't matter what they changed them to. i shouldn't have to check if payouts are correct when i make them. if it is not caught by the book prior to the game and payout then the book has to eat it and pay.
i also changed my stance - you can't take away the initial win to the customer. if you take that away from his winnings, then he doesn't have the money to play. its a snowball effect. 5dimes should pay the whole thing.
if they expect the customer to pay up if this resulted in the book's favor then they need to pay when the book was wrong and it was not caught in time. tony should fire the two who approved the wager.Comment -
I'm not going to continue posting chats that people r just finding humorous! I think I made my point with the two I posted anything more is just overkill and is for entertainment and not justice! There r plenty of Tony's chat logs out there that r vulgar and even humorous if that's what people want to see! This is not the thread that is promoting his behavior!!Comment -
dan the chats help your case. please post any relevant chats.Comment -
just speculation but it seems as though that last chat of his may have been scripted to persuade the forum. He got all his points in and then went to the forum with it. We don't know if it's true or not since Tony just said, "stick to your pathetic silly story". Earlier chats may clear things up and make it clearer to all.
Tony comes off like a clown. I'm not backing his insults and threats. I just think it would be nice to get more facts out.Last edited by raiders72001; 11-26-12, 12:36 AM.Comment -
The truth is those r the only two chats I had with tony and I posted them both! I just wanted to make it clear I was not going to continue chats for other ent as I have others on 2+2 requesting more cuz they r funny to them. I thought that's what u may have been implying with the request. I did not set that up or script it I simply wanted to request a phone call so he did not think I was going to post his words or any acknowledgement of my call to his cs. I can tell u everything I've stated is 100% the honest truth. I remember the contents of my phone call so much it's crazy. I know what I said and what they said. Tho I do want all ur support I will not lie to get it. I know sbr and tony both know I made this call as long as tony opened those logs to them. But honestly I have no reason to lie about anything because I don't think anything I say will change any opinions at this point especially those of tony and sbr! None the less my fight will continue for a long time to come as I have plenty of documentation to take this to the next level whoever that may be. Any suggestions??Comment -
Don't let Tony scare you. As a guy wrote across the street, if Tony were going to send someone to see you, he wouldn't admit to it on the forum. Just go by SBR's ruling. This puts the blame on SBR, not you. If I were to decide at this point, I would say keep the $10k and forget the rest.Comment -
Also doesn't sbr call out people who lie or mis lead other people in their threads? This is the main reason I put this thread on here cuz I know they regulate these things and I knew they had all my proof To back my claim and heard both sides of the argument. If I remember correctly bill or somebody said that cs did not take my phone call or this issue to a manager ( wich is who I asked to speak with anyways)! That right there acknowledges that this call was made and I'm not making that up and that's the only thing I can't show this thread cuz it was a phone call. Everything else I have documented and posted it or sent it to sbr. I also have many more documents I have not sent but sbr has not requested anymore documents as i already sent them like 25 PGs or so of diferent documents deposits bet chat logs balance weekly and daily earnings ect.Comment -
I believe you. I don't think that you'll be able to take this any further than it's already gone. It would be throwing money down the tube to sue. Tony probably doesn't even care if you sue him but if he does, he may then harass in some way such as by phone. He may really feel you stole $10k.Comment -
How do I know what their ruling is? Lou handled the case and has said nothing. Bill only put his two cents in on here but never sent a personal email or phone call as I requested. Jason seems to side with me and tells me to file a complaint. I don't know I've never been in this situation, I mean is that a ruling cuz I'm more confused now then I was on Monday! What's the verdict here? Did I steal? Do I owe? Will I get black listed? Does tony owe? Then all $ aside the threats need to be acknowledged and dealt with. Maybe an apology or down grade on the rating or even a warning I don't know but something should be done here u would think.Comment -
5ds probably has 50,000 players during football---seems like books should check big players or big winners daily---used to work for a book in atlanta with about 700 players----we kept a close eye on the big guys---Comment -
File a complaint with SBR and let them take it from here. Then just relax about it. Tony isn't going to do a thing if you file a complaint with SBR. It would be nice if Justin is the one that handles the complaint because of his background on both sides of the fence as well as the law.Comment -
?-?-?-?-?Comment -
Raiders
i agree and that's where I'm at with this. I'm not going to continue to contact tony because that just seems to fuel the fire. I will let sbr handle this and hopefully I will be personally informed with the outcome of this. As for my threads I will continue to answer ?s on them to keep this issue in the forefront and to keep others informed. This is where I came to find the best book on the net and if I saw something unresolved like this I may have thought twice about dumping my money into it!Comment -
Sad state of affairs when so many people can justify the outright theft this slimeball perpetrated on the book. Was paid $3990 on .57 cent bet that should have paid $390, and then uses that stolen money to win 40k, and he's surprised they want their money back?
The worst excuse is saying that he called customer service and since they said it was correct, then everythings hunky dory. Who do you think is working customer service, geniuses? They look on the screen at the computer, most of them don't understand how odds work, so it's not surprising they would verify, they don't know any better. But bettors and upper management would of known. And don't give us the babe in the woods routine, you knew 7000-1 was a huge clerical error, and yet you want people to sympathize with you?
7,000-1. That's more than state lotteries pay out on hitting a straight pick 4. Do you really want us to believe that you're stupid enough to believe that hitting a 6 team pleaser has a probability of less than .00014 ?
There are not many options for US players. They work on low margins as it is, then they have to try and get money in and out of the US, which is not very easy these days. Not only is it expensive, but they have to write off the occasional bank account seizure as well. Whether or not that provision is worked out before hand with the processor or not, I don't know, but either way, it's a big added expense. So combined with low margins and financial processing expenses, you need a group of customer service reps to work the phones and computers. How sharp do you expect these clerks to be when it comes to payout amounts? Would you prefer to pay -125/-125 on bets and have people with Stanford Calculus degrees working the phones?
You were given money that you were not entitled to, and since you have cashed out 11k (that you don't intend to pay back), you should thank your lucky stars. But what do you do? You actually have the nerve to want even more.
Karmas a bitch, and when it catches up to you, I hope it is just.Comment -
It's not outright theft by any means. He got extremely +EV odds on his bet, but it was still a longshot that won. His money was definitely at risk and the bet should be honored as well as all bets that followed. BTW, I've seen extremely heavily juiced future odds where the Book is attempting to rape all bettors--so would you support the players being reimbursed in this case?
Worst case is that the original bet is reduced to appropriate odds (a loss of 3k in winnings). The rest of his action should stand. 5D is the would-be thief here, not the OP. Pay the guy.Comment -
You say his money was at risk? yeah all .57 cents of it.
Big difference between a book offering a futures market with a high 30% hold, and a bettor getting paid 1000% over market in a clerical error that he knew was a mistake. That's not a +ev bet, that's theft. Bets he made after that were not his money he risked, that was the books money he stole.
Not to mention, he has been paid 11k that he shouldn't have, so when a dolt like you says he should be paid even more, it's almost laughable.
Since he is keeping the 11k, he should have his account closed, and he should be glad he has 11k he shouldn't have, and move on. Instead, he wants to steal even more, and tries to solicit support from a thread.
Nobody with an IQ over 75 would think he's entitled to 7000-1 odds on a 6 team pleaser. When you compare a futures market a book offers to getting a 1000% payout due to a clerical error, you embarrass yourself son, you really do.Comment -
You say his money was at risk? yeah all .57 cents of it.
Big difference between a book offering a futures market with a high 30% hold, and a bettor getting paid 1000% over market in a clerical error that he knew was a mistake. That's not a +ev bet, that's theft. Bets he made after that were not his money he risked, that was the books money he stole.
Not to mention, he has been paid 11k that he shouldn't have, so when a dolt like you says he should be paid even more, it's almost laughable.
Since he is keeping the 11k, he should have his account closed, and he should be glad he has 11k he shouldn't have, and move on. Instead, he wants to steal even more, and tries to solicit support from a thread.
Nobody with an IQ over 75 would think he's entitled to 7000-1 odds on a 6 team pleaser. When you compare a futures market a book offers to getting a 1000% payout due to a clerical error, you embarrass yourself son, you really do.
No you embarrass yourself--are you a 5D plant? The amount of the bet is irrelevant, whether it's 57 cents or $5700. Fact is the bet won--only the payout amount is in question. Book the bet-pay the bet. His money was at risk, so pay him. Tony shouldn't be allowed to free-roll the OP.Comment -
I think SBR should be more embarrassed here than 5dimesComment -
I'd rather an iq of 75 then no iq at all because ur logic show that u have no sense and probly work for 5d. I asked to speak to a manager. I then spoke with 2 separate people who claimed to be the ones who handle these sort of issues. I then was paid on 8 or 9 separate occasions where my account should have been reviewed by management. I put 900 $ in my account in the first week I opened it not just 57 cents or even 50 $. That money was always at risk no matter what bets I made as every bet placed can lose. I was getting low on funds come this time I won this wager ( would have had 1-2 hundered i believe had i lost)so as I did a week earlier I would have funded my acct with more $. I never did this because I was informed I had over 4 k in my acct to wager with! Lastly if I lost the 3990 instead I would owe that $ to 5d so that $ was always at risk as well. this is clearly stated in 5 dimes rules on the main page of the site! I don't know how much clearer this could be or I could be! Do u not bet a + odds bet after u r cleared by multiple people to do so? I don't know seems like that was the only thing I could have done diferent here in ur eyes. I also said I would consider paying back the $ if all logs including my phone call to 5 d was open to sbr and they felt what I did was theft u can read my last chat with tony.Last edited by Dan bouton; 11-26-12, 08:28 PM.Comment -
I completely understand that you want to keep posting about the issue. If I were in your shoes now that you've filed a complaint with SBR I would stop posting about this issue on ANY FORUM until you hear back. You're only going to make it worse for yourself.Comment -
What I find totally amazing is how does CS pay the player 8 or 9 times and NOT review his account when he withdraws?Comment -
If I bet a 2 team 6 point pleaser (ties reduce) for $100 and the computer says $100 to win $60,000 (when I know it should be $6,000), I alert the company long before the games are played. I don't wait for the games to finish to see if I win. When the bet wins, I then don't call customer service and ask some $10 an hour clerk if the bet stands when I know it's not supposed to. Then, with $60,000 in my account that I know I shouldn't have, I don't cash out 15k and then go betting 5k a game, or start firing $100 exactas at Santa Anita.
Just because certain people missed it when "reviewing" your account doesn't mean it's OK to pretend that it was fair to keep a 1000% increased payout that YOU KNEW was wrong.
Every pleaser payout is listed, you obviously know what they're supposed to pay, so the fact that you pretend you don't know the difference between 700-1 and 7000-1 is bullshit. Perhaps if you bet a golfer who was +30000 who should of been +10000, I could take your side. But if a top ranked golfer is offered to finish top 5 at +8000 when it obviously should have been +800, and then the bettor plays dumb, like he didn't know better, then that particular customer is a scammer.
Let's say you go to a cage at a casino, and ask for $500 in chips, and accidentally you receive a 5k chip thrown in instead of a $50 chip, but the cashier misses it, and you proceed to go to the roulette wheel with the 5k chip, make larger bets and run it up to 40k, then you cash out at the cashier for 25k in cash. Later, when that the casino discovers that the cashier cage you originally got your chips from is off by $4950, they investigate. A week later, when they review all the video tapes, they discover that is was you who was given a 5k chip in error. They also discover that you cashed out 25k from winnings derived from a 5k chip you know was not yours. Do you think you're not going to get arrested and/or sued?Comment -
That's not even close to how this played out but I respect ur opinion and I'm going to leave it in the hands of sbr because they have all the facts and now I'm just running around in circles having to keep explaining.Comment -
You expect $6000 back on a $100 2-team pleaser....really? I think most places pay $600 on this $100 bet. Funny how you feel the OP shouldn't get 7000-1 on an expected 700-1 payout, yet you think you're entitled to a 60-1 payday on a 6-1 proposition. Sounds to me like you're the potential scammer that should be arrested.Comment -
Obviously an extra zero put in there by mistake, kind of reinforces my point.
If you're too stupid to see the intention of a 1000% mark up example, then I really see no point in any future deliberations with a moron. Maybe Oliver Wendall Holmes had it right in Buck vs. BellComment -
Wow. Never thought of it that way. Has the ring of truth.
The argument that a player should not be paid his winnings, because one of his wagers was misgraded and paid out too much, which affected the amount of his wagers thereafter is beyond absurd.
This player was obviously aware that he was getting paid too much, and therefore double checked that with the book. He never took a shot. The error was the clerk's. But a book's owner can't hide behind a clerk's error, and even less so after that clerk was specifically asked for confirmation. Tony should chalk this one up under the cost of doing business. Nowhere is it written that he can't train his clerks better or pay them more to attract better ones. And as far as making physical threats, I suppose it would be too much to ask that 5D was downgraded for that. If that is the case, let the record show that SBR is fine with book owners threatening players.Last edited by Dark Horse; 11-26-12, 11:46 PM.Comment -
Could the casino sue you if they knew who you were and could prove that you were overpaid to recover the difference? Yes. Would they have any recourse in confiscating your winnings? No. So, you're essentially agreeing that the difference in the pleaser payout should be deducted from the account and the subsequent wagers should stand.
The fact of the matter is that the casino may not pursue any action against the player. In fact, they may actually give him more (such as comped suites and meals). He's a roulette player. There's a good chance that he'll give it all back and then some. There is a knee-jerk, desperate way to approach the situation and there is a mature, intelligent way to approach it (without adding negative publicity).Comment
