i think astons last post was very interesting in that this has happened before on numerous occasions. i am very glad he posted it, eventhough noyb thinks he is wasting time. i am a bf user and will never leave anything significant in there again.
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Orthos I think my point has got across to the fourm with my English
what clear points have I not addressed?
and who am I NOT listening to?Comment -
wtf thank you perhaps you can mention that to Orthos (also wtf there are more links I have posted on the fourm you can read...very shocking things at betfair)
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This has been explained to you multiple times.Originally posted by aston
The problem is that the points that you're making are points that don't matter. It doesn't matter whether you made the bets or not.
What clear points you have not addressed are:
--Betfair says bets made from your computer, your IP. Betfair lying? You have proof?
--How can you prove that you did not do this? How can you prove that you didn't cook this up with Bob and Doug while you were moose hunting?
--You will need to prove one of these things:
-these bets could not have possibly come from you or anyone connected with you.
-your credit card purchases were fraudulent.
-betfair should not have accepted the bets.
It doesn't matter whether you are telling the truth or not. If you can prove one of these things (and the credit card thing should be simple to prove, frankly. like the bank should already have credited your money back if you have talked to them, if there is proof), you will win, even if you're lying. If you can't, you will lose, even if you're telling the truth.
This is not exact and these are probably not the only things you can argue, but the stuff that you're focusing on (your betting history, other people's past situations, whether everyone believes you or not, whether betfair are an honest company or not, whether or not you are obviously telling the truth, what newspapers you should tell your sad story to) is totally, totally useless to help you.
But that's not the reason why you're being dumb. The reason why you're being dumb is that you're down $160k and you're trying to do it yourself and you're clearly out of your depth in this situation.Comment -
I have no idea if the Poster's story is true or not.
But I've always wondered why exchanges dont have more security.
I have never used an exchange cause they worry me. In the past when I was betting online, I always had books turn off the poker room for this reason. Exchanges and poker rooms make it easy for money to be stolen and dumped...
It is very easy to get someone's account info - wireless internet, hacking in, etc. There are machines made to steal credit card info, there are ways to get social security numbers, etc.
I dont think every exchange needs top end security for every account, but I would advocate a place like Betfair or Matchbook up the security for accounts with more than $10,000 or $50,000 or whatever.
Where I work we are able to log into our computers from anywhere in the world. In order to log in, I need my username, my password. I am then asked for a second pass word that is a number pin generated new each time on my cell phone and lasting for 60 seconds. To obtain this pin, I must log into my cell phone with one password and then obtain the pin with another password.
Thus to get into my work computer, I need 3 passwords, and a pin that is only available on my phone so a hacker would need all 3 passwords and my phone in their hands.
I'm sure this is not bullet proof either - someone could hold a gun to my head. Someone can probably hack the phone. But if my work can do this, why can't betfair or other exchanges for large accounts?
SeanComment -
Important point.Originally posted by OrthoComment -
Ortho the bank says the charges are fraud are willing to give me back $15,000 but thats fine but it the other money thats gome missing from my account that I worry day and night about
I have seeked the help from RCMP UK police and Interpol and filed complaints
I will get the answers for my computer next week as Data as told me and I am sure that will help
the newpapers I think its a excellent source for me to put my points to betfair and for exposure for my dispute
as for me going public on this SBR fourm is the right course of action because if I go soft betfair will simply ignore me.. (over 3000 views and growing everday and betfair will take notice)
Bettfair should not have accepted the bets because of my betting history Imo when they have blocked my account beforeComment -
Apk hopefully what Data says will verify that they were not made by my computerComment -
good point increasetheoddsComment -
Apk I know manys here do not think this is valid but If I was going to scam Would I have made these bets from my computer and IP address ...how foolish would that be and than sign papers with the police...for heavens sakeComment -
I'm neutral on this, got some money in a betfair account myself.Originally posted by aston
If Betfair can prove the bets were made from your computer (not just your IP) and if you can prove that you weren't at home at that time, there's a small chance Betfair will give it some more attention...Comment -
TO APK AND OTHERS!well I am happy for this Gent but betfair still refused liability even with ip proof
MikeLyons
Listed Class
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 43
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject: this happened to my friend last year who had 5k taken from his bank, Betfair refused liability although there was log ins from Russia 5 mins after he had logged off in the UK. Luckily, he contacted the bank and fraud police who traced the mongrels and he got his money back eventually!!
If you havent already told the bank i wud mention it to them as they are heavily coordinated with worldwide fraud police who can track down many transactions worldwide.
Good luckComment -
Good news.Originally posted by aston
Meh. I don't think if the Met Police saw some guy in a stripy shirt hitting you over the head and taking away your money in a sack with a big £ on it that they would bother to investigate, god knows what the mounties are going to do for you, and I don't even think Interpol even have a consumer fraud division. But I'm sure they will put an APB out on "some guy that was in my house last thursday who lost all my money on a horse race in England."I have seeked the help from RCMP UK police and Interpol and filed complaints
You should not be using that computer even now. You are changing its state with everything you do.I will get the answers for my computer next week as Data as told me and I am sure that will help
Yes, this is the totally irrelevant stuff. You are not going to shame betfair into giving you $160,000. It doesn't matter if you do this or not. If you think a UK newspaper is going to print a story about an unsubstantiated claim by a canadian punter that someone stole his money on betfair by making bets on his own computer, then, well....you probably don't realise that it wouldn't matter if they did.the newpapers I think its a excellent source for me to put my points to betfair and for exposure for my dispute
as for me going public on this SBR fourm is the right course of action because if I go soft betfair will simply ignore me.. (over 3000 views and growing everday and betfair will take notice)
Yes, this is totally and completely irrelevant unless you can show some proof that this is so. The only thing you've said is that you once made a bet that was too big and betfair shut you off until you talked to them then they turned you back on. That weakens your credibility, but it doesn't matter anyway.Bettfair should not have accepted the bets because of my betting history Imo when they have blocked my account before
Do you have any proof like this? If you do then why on earth are you going on and on about your betting patterns? If you don't, why can't you see that, even with this proof this guy still had an uphill fight and all your "betting patterns" talk is totally useless?MikeLyons
Listed Class
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 43
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject: this happened to my friend last year who had 5k taken from his bank, Betfair refused liability although there was log ins from Russia 5 mins after he had logged off in the UK. Luckily, he contacted the bank and fraud police who traced the mongrels and he got his money back eventually!!
If you havent already told the bank i wud mention it to them as they are heavily coordinated with worldwide fraud police who can track down many transactions worldwide.
Good luck
Again, this is just more drama, drama, drama. None of that is going to matter. If I were this would I that, GMAFB. Who knows why anyone does what they do.Apk I know manys here do not think this is valid but If I was going to scam Would I have made these bets from my computer and IP address ...how foolish would that be and than sign papers with the police...for heavens sake
I think I disagree. Why wouldn't they just say it was your girlfriend, dog, brother, whatever and that being demonstrably away from home was just a cover story? I think if the bets came from his computer he's cooked. I think he has to show the bets came from someplace he didn't have access to, but even then why wouldn't betfair just claim that he had a Russian buddy or whatever? It gets tough at that point, but certainly this:Originally posted by APK
isn't going to get him far.Betfair: "These bets came from your computer",
aston: "I would never do that blah blah blah horseracing 0.5% per day blah blah newspapers mounties imo"Comment -
ortho would betfair every admit that they made a mistake?Comment -
I have posted many articles where they haveComment -
(head assplodes)Comment -
Aston: I think your position is clear. I also think Ortho has made many valid points...we're going round in circles, you've stated your case.
My advice would be to bump this thread when any new information comes to light or SBR relay discussions back to you they had with Betfair on your behalf. You're running the risk of flogging your dead horse just a little too much.
Good luck.Comment -
English mike would you not use this fourm to max if it was your $161,000 at stake?Comment -
x2Originally posted by OrthoComment -
x3Comment -
just a update I have to file a complaint fraud charge with my credit card company to get back my $15,000 and they said it will take a few weeksComment -
MikeLyons
Listed Class
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 43
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject: this happened to my friend last year who had 5k taken from his bank, Betfair refused liability although there was log ins from Russia 5 mins after he had logged off in the UK. Luckily, he contacted the bank and fraud police who traced the mongrels and he got his money back eventually!!
If you havent already told the bank i wud mention it to them as they are heavily coordinated with worldwide fraud police who can track down many transactions worldwide.
Good luck
*Ortho even with proof that betfair acknowleges wrong ip was used when would betfair ever be at fault?? in your eyes*Comment -
I don't think that I've ever before seen a thread that contains hundreds of posts but is essentially going absolutely nowhere from Minute 01...Comment -
I think its a very important thread and good points were made on both sides of the issueComment -
i find it bizarre that anyone would complain about this thread.
this guy might have got ripped off 161k by betfair, you dont know!
this is a gambling forum and i think this thread is important.
dont like, dont read, dont post.Comment -
Most threads on these forums are completely useless for serious gamblers!!!
This is not one of those. Extremely significant information for me.
I have halved what I have in my betfair account and I will take other measures to try and protect myself from any fraud.Comment -
Aston,
The credit card part is interesting, so simultaneously your Betfair account was hacked & strange bets placed and also, someone was trying to make a $15k charge to your card. If the card company has agreed its fraud (like you said), this clearly strengthens your case. Was there a file somewhere where you keep all your information in one place? (I keep it all in an Excel file, deleted now!)
Once again, I would urge you not to expect Betfair to block bets based on betting patterns, they are one of the best operators in the business (they have even won responsible operator of the year award twice) and if the IP is same and password is correct they cannot assume foulplay. May be you have a case with them sensing something from the credit card being blocked - but i dont know the details or sequence of how the system works in this case. If you google any sportsbook with payment problems, even the best sportsbook will have some problmes with some customers, so its better to focus on the hacker and not the incompetencies of betfair. They have a pathetic customer support, but they are not out to get your money.
If the card was blocked, its likely you were hacked and you definietly have a case. Best of luck, hope you get the 161k back.
Yes, important thread - we should all change our passwords at least once a month, amongst other safety measuresComment -
The $15k was deposits from his Betfair accout (with which the credit card was registered)Comment -
aston - I still don't understand what went on with your credit card.Originally posted by aston
Can you be more specific?
Did someone deposit 15k into Betfair using your credit card?
If not, what were the 15k in charges for?
How did you convince your credit card company so quickly to refund your money?
What proof or evidence did you offer them?Comment -
Santo - I just went over his posts, but couldn't find that info.Originally posted by Santo
Did I miss it in one of the posts here, or has he posted on another forum as well?Comment -
It was my reading of the first post, both he and Betfair mention deposits in their communication, and the players speaks of charging them back as recovering funds.Comment -
Santo - thanks.Originally posted by Santo
aston - If 15k was charged from your credit card to Betfair (and then lost) what evidence did you present to your credit card company? You've stated that they're going to refund your money - why?
In the absence of strong evidence, it's hard to understand why they would grant you a refund.Comment -
Originally posted by wtf
Maybe so, but as English Mike, Ortho and others have pointed out, all the OP is doing is talking in circles...repeatedly. If this did indeed happen as he states, then I hope it works out for him but to continuously repeat himself over and over with little progress is doing nothing for him in my opinion, which was my point I was attempting to convey. If he wants to see possible progress, then I would suggest doing exactly what Data pointed out earlier in the thread, but that's just me.....Comment -
And I'm going to assume that you're joking.....Some guy appears out of the internet jungle with a decidedly foggy (at best) tale claiming to have had his life funds pillaged by a sportsbook, and you run for the hills? There's been no confirmation; no in depth report...Just some stranger's written text. Are you kidding me?Originally posted by chance
I have funds, a lot of funds, in BetFair and several other sportsbooks. If I were go into a panic every time I read about a contentious issue about any of them from a complete stranger, then I would consider withdrawing from the world of online wagering, something I recommend you think seriously about.....Comment -
That said, with a book as easy to deposit too as Betfair, there's really no reason to keep more funds than you're going to use in a relatively short period there...Comment
