Is Las Vegas the new Detroit?

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  • pico
    BARRELED IN @ SBR!
    • 04-05-07
    • 27321

    #1
    Is Las Vegas the new Detroit?
  • pico
    BARRELED IN @ SBR!
    • 04-05-07
    • 27321

    #2
    Related topics: homes, home financing, foreclosure, home prices, economy

    It was big news five years ago when Macau, the gambling mecca near Hong Kong, surpassed the Las Vegas Strip in gambling revenues.

    It's no longer even close: Macau's gambling revenues were four times those of the Strip in 2010.

    Iconic casino operators like Las Vegas Sands and Wynn Resorts now get the lion's share of their revenue and operating income from Macau and Asia.

    Macau's gains have come in the years since Las Vegas' housing and building boom turned to dust.


    Home improvements that add value

    Home prices here have fallen 58.1% from their 2006 highs, the most in the Standard & Poor's/Case-Shiller 20-City Composite Home Price index. They've even lost 12.6% from the nationwide recession low in April 2009 -- again the worst performance of any city in the index.

    Calculator: How much house can you afford?
    The median home-sale price in the Las Vegas area at the 2006 peak was $313,500; in 2010, that fell to a stunning $138,100, according to the National Association of Realtors.

    Strategy on the Strip

    View more MSN videosGo to CNBC



    Currently more than 70% of the homes in the area are "underwater," meaning their value is worth less than the amount owed on the mortgage, according to Stephen Miller, the chairman of the economics department at the College of Business at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Nationwide, it's more than 28%.

    A recent Forbes survey named Las Vegas the nation's second-worst-performing housing market of the past decade.

    The worst? Detroit.

    That's not the only thing Sin City has in common with the Motor City, although on the surface no two metropolises are more different (and I can guarantee that Detroit doesn't have a hotel as cool as Vegas' new Cosmopolitan).

    Detroit was a manufacturing powerhouse that has been in decline for decades. Las Vegas was the prototypical boom town: Clark County, in which Las Vegas is located, grew by about 40% in the last decade, pushing its population to nearly 2 million.

    Detroit is gritty, Vegas is glitzy. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, and what happens in Detroit . . . well, who cares?

    And yet there are striking parallels.

    Las Vegas, said Robert Lang, director of Brookings Mountain West, a think tank affiliated with UNLV, "has become a modern-day version of Pittsburgh or Detroit, which once relied on one sector for its growth to its detriment," the Las Vegas Sun reported.

    He "compared Las Vegas to Midwestern and Northeastern cities with manufacturing plants and steel mills where the middle class had high-paying jobs, only to see those plants disappear."

    A different kind of one-horse town
    The industry that defines Vegas, of course, is gambling.

    "We're a one-horse town, and gaming is driving the economy," said Miller.
    Comment
    • pico
      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
      • 04-05-07
      • 27321

      #3
      Vegas hotels and casinos employed 155,200 people in March, according to the Nevada Department of Employment, Training and Rehabilitation. That's almost 20% of total employment.

      With an economy so dependent on tourism, it's no wonder Nevada had the biggest drop in gross domestic product of all states during the recession -- 6.4%. Two years ago, casinos had rows of empty, silent slot machines, and cabbies sat in long queues, waiting for fares that never came.

      But what really clobbered Las Vegas this time was the bursting of the housing bubble.

      Las Vegas' boom was years in the making; its unraveling happened almost overnight.

      Posh new megacasino hotels like the Bellagio, the Venetian and Wynn Las Vegas made the Strip a hot destination for upscale tourists and conventioneers. Celebrity chefs like Wolfgang Puck, Emeril Lagasse, Charlie Palmer and Joel Robuchon brought Michelin stars -- and mind-boggling tabs -- to the land of all-you-can-eat buffets. The Strip's boom was a boon for employment as well.

      Calculator: Should you refinance?
      Meanwhile, a steady stream of retirees descended on the city, lured by warm weather, no state income taxes and cheap housing. A couple could sell their home in Southern California for, say, $800,000 or $1 million and buy a similar or larger house in the Vegas area for less than half the price.

      Still picking through the rubble
      As the population grew, contractors, developers and real-estate agents smelled opportunity, and mortgage bankers smelled blood. Las Vegas became ground zero for the worst subprime slime: liars' loans, insane teaser rates, option ARMs and rampant fraud.

      The market crashed hard, and Las Vegas residents are still picking through the rubble. As of May 7, an astonishing 86% of homes and condos under contract in Vegas and nearby Henderson were foreclosures or short sales, where banks sell a property for less than the value of the mortgage.

      But the market may be starting to bottom. Inventory is shrinking a bit, though more desperate homeowners will put out the for-sale signs at the first inklings of improvement.

      Meanwhile, joblessness in Las Vegas hovers just above 13%. That's actually down a lot from last September, when Sin City hit a record 15% official unemployment rate.

      And commercial real estate remains in a deep funk. The massive $8.5-billion CityCenter project may have barely averted bankruptcy, but owners MGM Resorts International and Dubai World had to write down its value by more than $5 billion.

      Beyond the Strip, it's pretty hopeless. Office vacancy rates in some areas are as high as 40%, while retail vacancy rates are above 11%. Don't expect any recovery there for many, many years.

      That's why people who came here during the boom are now, well, leaving Las Vegas.

      "We lost over 60% of the construction jobs during the recession," says Miller. "The real unknown factor is how many of the construction workers who want jobs have left the state."

      Last year Nevada reported its first population decline in 90 years, as 70,000 more people left the state than came here.

      But things may be looking up a bit.

      Signs of renewal
      It's pretty crowded here at Caesars Palace, where I'm appearing at the Las Vegas Money Show, and I had to wait half an hour on a long, twisting line to get a cab at McCarran International Airport. On Wednesday night the Strip was buzzing with tourists.

      The Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority reports that the number of visitors is up 5% so far this year, convention attendance has risen by over 10% and hotel room rates have increased by nearly 10%.


      That's good news, but this city and state are in for a long, tough slog. A deep deficit of $1.5 billion -- 45% of the total budget, again the worst in the nation -- means the state of Nevada won't be able to help much.

      Construction is dead for now, and gambling and tourism could remain weak as long as gasoline prices and national unemployment are high. With those twin pillars of Las Vegas' growth no longer thriving, the lights on the Strip will glitter less brightly for some time.

      Motor City, here we come?
      Comment
      • ApricotSinner32
        Restricted User
        • 11-28-10
        • 10648

        #4
        Originally posted by pico
        Related topics: homes, home financing, foreclosure, home prices, economy

        It was big news five years ago when Macau, the gambling mecca near Hong Kong, surpassed the Las Vegas Strip in gambling revenues.

        It's no longer even close: Macau's gambling revenues were four times those of the Strip in 2010.

        Iconic casino operators like Las Vegas Sands and Wynn Resorts now get the lion's share of their revenue and operating income from Macau and Asia.

        Macau's gains have come in the years since Las Vegas' housing and building boom turned to dust.


        Home improvements that add value

        Home prices here have fallen 58.1% from their 2006 highs, the most in the Standard & Poor's/Case-Shiller 20-City Composite Home Price index. They've even lost 12.6% from the nationwide recession low in April 2009 -- again the worst performance of any city in the index.

        Calculator: How much house can you afford?
        The median home-sale price in the Las Vegas area at the 2006 peak was $313,500; in 2010, that fell to a stunning $138,100, according to the National Association of Realtors.

        Strategy on the Strip

        View more MSN videosGo to CNBC



        Currently more than 70% of the homes in the area are "underwater," meaning their value is worth less than the amount owed on the mortgage, according to Stephen Miller, the chairman of the economics department at the College of Business at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Nationwide, it's more than 28%.

        A recent Forbes survey named Las Vegas the nation's second-worst-performing housing market of the past decade.

        The worst? Detroit.

        That's not the only thing Sin City has in common with the Motor City, although on the surface no two metropolises are more different (and I can guarantee that Detroit doesn't have a hotel as cool as Vegas' new Cosmopolitan).

        Detroit was a manufacturing powerhouse that has been in decline for decades. Las Vegas was the prototypical boom town: Clark County, in which Las Vegas is located, grew by about 40% in the last decade, pushing its population to nearly 2 million.

        Detroit is gritty, Vegas is glitzy. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, and what happens in Detroit . . . well, who cares?

        And yet there are striking parallels.

        Las Vegas, said Robert Lang, director of Brookings Mountain West, a think tank affiliated with UNLV, "has become a modern-day version of Pittsburgh or Detroit, which once relied on one sector for its growth to its detriment," the Las Vegas Sun reported.

        He "compared Las Vegas to Midwestern and Northeastern cities with manufacturing plants and steel mills where the middle class had high-paying jobs, only to see those plants disappear."

        A different kind of one-horse town
        The industry that defines Vegas, of course, is gambling.

        "We're a one-horse town, and gaming is driving the economy," said Miller.
        Comment
        • teaserpleaser
          BARRELED IN @ SBR!
          • 08-14-08
          • 26015

          #5
          signs of renewel my ass things will never be the same again some places may recover LA has at least 15% unemployment right now dont care what the stats say its hard all over. I'd hate to see vegas looks like this past two months was the hardest time i've ever had to find a job.
          Comment
          • Grits n' Gravy
            Restricted User
            • 06-10-10
            • 13024

            #6
            Casinos aren't doing as poorly as they are saying. New homes are being built every day as the ones built a few years ago aren't moving due to neglect. Vegas is about 2 years away from being thriving again.
            Comment
            • teddyd
              SBR High Roller
              • 11-01-10
              • 226

              #7
              that's way too much to read on a site like this pico
              Comment
              • dochall2u
                SBR Hustler
                • 05-02-11
                • 90

                #8
                if people are struggling to pay bills,it is onle resonable to think gambling will take a hit.Same thing is happening to horse racing in Kentucky.Probably will never recover.
                Comment
                • clonecat
                  SBR MVP
                  • 08-29-05
                  • 1225

                  #9
                  Gas too expensive to afford to go to Vegas. Cut the price of gas in half and Vegas will go crazy.
                  Comment
                  • castaway
                    Restricted User
                    • 03-18-11
                    • 14

                    #10
                    Casinos too

                    Lol Do they have casinos in Detriot? Thats nuts
                    Comment
                    • spartangreen
                      SBR MVP
                      • 11-25-09
                      • 3807

                      #11
                      three casinos in detroit.
                      Comment
                      • CallMeChip
                        SBR Wise Guy
                        • 03-23-11
                        • 681

                        #12
                        This is great though, my buddy just bought a 2,500 sqft house out there for a measly 165 grand. Legit too, hardwood, granite, built in 04'. Now's the time to buy. Great short sales
                        Comment
                        • 19th Hole
                          SBR Posting Legend
                          • 03-22-09
                          • 18952

                          #13
                          Originally posted by alawarnew
                          веселая ферма алавар ключ
                          алекс гордон алавар
                          код активации генератора ключей алавар

                          This!
                          Comment
                          • Gruntworker
                            SBR Wise Guy
                            • 02-12-11
                            • 777

                            #14
                            couldn't have said it better myself
                            Comment
                            • dizzy_7
                              SBR Sharp
                              • 07-12-10
                              • 437

                              #15
                              i should sell up and move to VEGAS BABY!!!...$138k for a place.. $500k here in sydney!!
                              Comment
                              • goblue12
                                SBR MVP
                                • 02-08-09
                                • 1316

                                #16
                                Funny because I just moved from Detroit to Las Vegas.

                                Well, not really Detroit, but SE Michigan.
                                Comment
                                • Illusion
                                  Restricted User
                                  • 08-09-05
                                  • 25166

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by 19th Hole
                                  This!
                                  Damn spambots...he gone.
                                  Comment
                                  • rggolds8
                                    Restricted User
                                    • 04-18-11
                                    • 134

                                    #18
                                    people are not spending even if they have the cash. That will continue for some time so Vegas will stat in trouble.
                                    Comment
                                    • stevenash
                                      Moderator
                                      • 01-17-11
                                      • 65564

                                      #19
                                      I'm on the east coast, many of my east coast friends used to go to LV 2x a year, they don't even go anymore.
                                      I don't.
                                      Corporations ruined the business on the strip, place is like a ghetto, like the Boardwalk in NJ.
                                      Comment
                                      • ccnew
                                        Restricted User
                                        • 05-30-11
                                        • 26

                                        #20
                                        i used to go to LV but not anymore
                                        Comment
                                        • jennahazeplays
                                          Restricted User
                                          • 03-15-10
                                          • 474

                                          #21
                                          certainly on its way 2 becomin similiar. shame 2, dat used 2 be one of da collest cities
                                          Comment
                                          • CisforCOOKIE
                                            SBR Hustler
                                            • 05-07-11
                                            • 69

                                            #22
                                            Have a nice day
                                            Comment
                                            • Skidcom
                                              SBR MVP
                                              • 11-17-06
                                              • 1796

                                              #23
                                              Driving through North Vegas recently was very very sad
                                              Comment
                                              • stevenash
                                                Moderator
                                                • 01-17-11
                                                • 65564

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by ccnew
                                                i used to go to LV but not anymore
                                                I don't know anybody who does anymore.

                                                My mom used to love it back in the day.
                                                My dad tells me if he wanted cigarette while playing 1 dollar blackjack, they'd comp him a pack.

                                                What do they charge now? Nine dollars?
                                                Comment
                                                • Marv001
                                                  SBR MVP
                                                  • 02-27-10
                                                  • 1147

                                                  #25
                                                  You can tell Vegas is in trouble from the amount of advertising they spend.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • Ibrakadabra
                                                    SBR Sharp
                                                    • 10-30-10
                                                    • 271

                                                    #26
                                                    Interesting texts but the answer is no.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • Numenor80
                                                      SBR Sharp
                                                      • 03-26-09
                                                      • 360

                                                      #27
                                                      I think I would feel much safer visiting Vegas rather than Detroit. I'll be in Vegas this Tuesday...maybe my attitude will change.
                                                      Comment
                                                      • onlooker
                                                        BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                        • 08-10-05
                                                        • 36572

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by Skidcom
                                                        Driving through North Vegas recently was very very sad
                                                        North Town was never really happy to begin with.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • nijole
                                                          Restricted User
                                                          • 03-17-11
                                                          • 130

                                                          #29
                                                          Interesting opinion, but I don't agree with it.
                                                          Comment
                                                          • crustyme
                                                            SBR Posting Legend
                                                            • 09-29-10
                                                            • 16896

                                                            #30
                                                            you could drop an a-bomb on vegas and it would still be better than detroit.
                                                            Comment
                                                            • Landscaper
                                                              SBR MVP
                                                              • 10-12-10
                                                              • 2712

                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by stevenash
                                                              I'm on the east coast, many of my east coast friends used to go to LV 2x a year, they don't even go anymore.
                                                              I don't.
                                                              Corporations ruined the business on the strip, place is like a ghetto, like the Boardwalk in NJ.

                                                              Comment
                                                              • JimmysEgo
                                                                SBR MVP
                                                                • 06-07-10
                                                                • 1201

                                                                #32
                                                                i'm going to be in Novi next month (outside of Detroit).
                                                                Comment
                                                                • Whippit
                                                                  Restricted User
                                                                  • 04-29-10
                                                                  • 3065

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Vegas rules...

                                                                  5 years ago you could tap $200k from your house

                                                                  now you can live in the same house for 5 years w/o making a payment
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • senseionline
                                                                    SBR MVP
                                                                    • 08-20-10
                                                                    • 1819

                                                                    #34
                                                                    use to hear so crazy story about big gambler giving out big tips to dealer and beverage girls i dont hear anything at all these days
                                                                    Comment
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