If you were on jury how would you have voted?

[brainfreeze]

Actually i gave them $100 to do 2 cleaning . To give them trust and be given a chance. Out of the $100 the first $50 was for that cleaning. Just weeds and stuff. I told them the other $50 is for you to come back in a month and clean it again. So i am trusting you to do the right thing. They actually cleaned up great the first time. Never came back. I would see the one kid and he would just run.

And my point was their home was not a bad environment . At least from what i seen. They just chose to do what they did. Drugs whatever does not matter . But it did not seem like the kids lived in the ghetto somewhere.

Well, don't give " kids " fifty bucks looking to trust they won't eat ice cream and forget all about you ... they're kids man, they need love .. moral of the story .. some decent guy snapped and killed kids that needed love and attention in their lives and were obviously begging for it ...

12x

And even you sound like a decent guy cap but dude, it's just crap... do you feel more fulfilled by that stuff, or would have you felt a lot of fulfillment changing the course of these kids lives ? Getting them where they could be an asset ... then to think when they come home at 17 they are convicted felons ... good luck getting that JOB

[captrobey]

THEN GET THEM ONE AND STOP COMPLAINING.. man, the more i listen to you, you sound like a prick, i don't care this and that, this is mine, i worked hard, shoot um dead blah blah ... please just don't set any kids up, you'll end up like this guy, have a good day

What? I sound like a prick ? I am one of the nicest people you would ever meet. I have never done a penetrating illegal drug in my life , i have never had a beer in my life, i served my country and got injured doing it, i have never stole anything from anyone ever , i have never been arrested or even had a traffic ticket.

But i seem like a prick because i say i cannot stand people that take other peoples property? Are you insane how is that wrong? And it is not my place to find these penetrating little thieves a job . I found a job just fine i just went out to look and was not lazy. Way to blame everyone else but the thieves for penetrating robbing and preying on people . All you seem to want to do is coddle these lowlife pos criminals when they absolutely need to be stopped.

[brainfreeze]

What? I sound like a prick ? I am one of the nicest people you would ever meet. I have never done a penetrating illegal drug in my life , i have never had a beer in my life, i served my country and got injured doing it, i have never stole anything from anyone ever , i have never been arrested or even had a traffic ticket.

But i seem like a prick because i say i cannot stand people that take other peoples property? Are you insane how is that wrong? And it is not my place to find these penetrating little thieves a job . I found a job just fine i just went out to look and was not lazy. Way to blame everyone else but the thieves for penetrating robbing and preying on people . All you seem to want to do is coddle these lowlife pos criminals when they absolutely need to be stopped.

You remind me of my sister... and we don't get along, love her .. but i don't and won't converse... she's self righteous, very prideful individual, and has the same self surface " morality " as you do..

Not everyone's the same, some people are artist, some are scientist, some are mathematicians, some are just meant to assist or labor some are designed for different purposes but ALL have a purpose. If these kids had the opportunity they would most likely have taken it. They fell into the devils hands of disruption and confusion and your answer is to end their lives?

Stop thinking about what you did to get where you are, and think about the struggle and difficulty it could take others. Get out of yourself, cap

[captrobey]

Well, don't give " kids " fifty bucks looking to trust they won't eat ice cream and forget all about you ... they're kids man, they need love .. moral of the story .. some decent guy snapped and killed kids that needed love and attention in their lives and were obviously begging for it ...



12x

And even you sound like a decent guy cap but dude, it's just crap... do you feel more fulfilled by that stuff, or would have you felt a lot of fulfillment changing the course of these kids lives ? Getting them where they could be an asset ... then to think when they come home at 17 they are convicted felons ... good luck getting that JOB

The reason i gave the $100 was to give them a chance and show them they had a chance to do the right thing. When i was 15 i would have never taken $100 and not finished the job. I thought showing them trust like that may show them that they are worthy of trust and i would hire them in the future. I know i may never come back but $100 was worth it trying to give 2 kids a chance to go the right direction.

But do not break into someones home or their car . I have no sympathy for that.

[brainfreeze]

The reason i gave the $100 was to give them a chance and show them they had a chance to do the right thing. When i was 15 i would have never taken $100 and not finished the job. I thought showing them trust like that may show them that they are worthy of trust and i would hire them in the future. I know i may never come back but $100 was worth it trying to give 2 kids a chance to go the right direction.

But do not break into someones home or their car . I have no sympathy for that.

If you see them needing help again, would you? My advice would be to do so. Give them pay for service acquired that day. Give them something to drink, find out who their daddy is... ask questions, what's their names?

Start with that ... their names, now you will be helping.. for real cap, people need real people to care in this world, to many people who put on good fronts or are deceiving themselves on how they really feel

[jtoler]

I do think he SHOULD have handled it somewhat differently, but I really dont know what was going through his mind, also the interactions he had with the kids isnt known, I mean we know they did work and all, not sure how well he got to know them as far as really befriending them. Its also stated that he'd kinda keep away from them while working because he didnt want any outsiders to think anything weird since he was older and single. He only called the cops once, not sure when the guns went missing, maybe it was the last seemingly big burglary with 42k stolen and damages. Maybe he didnt really feel totally freaked out until the guns went missing. Seems the big burglary was a month before they died, he said he hadnt slept in 4 months at one point so perhaps some of the guns were stolen longer before. He referred to them as druggies so he did know that much about them, not sure if he knew that before killings or after through media or what not. I guess it was just fear and anger, anger that when he tried to help someone they paid him back with theft. He went through the trouble of putting cams up but not an alarm system which would have alerted authorities, it seems other than the one time he called the cops that he wanted to handle this matter more by himself. Interesting case, already broken into many times, if he knew they were druggies already that'd reinforce him believing theyd be back even more, there is that premediation in a sense I guess. 2 life sentences still seems...I dont know.

[captrobey]

You remind me of my sister... and we don't get along, love her .. but i don't and won't converse... she's self righteous, very prideful individual, and has the same self surface " morality " as you do..

Not everyone's the same, some people are artist, some are scientist, some are mathematicians, some are just meant to assist or labor some are designed for different purposes but ALL have a purpose. If these kids had the opportunity they would most likely have taken it. They fell into the devils hands of disruption and confusion and your answer is to end their lives?

Stop thinking about what you did to get where you are, and think about the struggle and difficulty it could take others. Get out of yourself, cap

Lol Ok maybe i am getting too mad for nothing that was actually a nice compliment you gave me lol. About your sister lol.

But my point before about the kids sister saying that was he could have got a job. Kids that are not lazy do that instead of stealing other peoples crap. I had no father growing up but i still knew it was wrong to steal so i took the bus and got a job . It is like the "Homeless"people that get in a new car and drive home to a nice house. They just do not want to work. The point to that was once again the people who rob others once again turn it around like it is the victims fault. To say how else was he supposed to get his money for books is one of the dumbest things anyone can say. Like it was Ok to rob people so he can buy stuff.

[mngambler]

I know that is what the jury said. And i know he moved his car because he wanted whoever was breaking in to do it again. But because he was in his own home i do not see how that could be. Like i said yes he moved his car yes he waited for them. But he did NOTHING that any normal person would have done that would have made it ok for them to come into his home. People keep making it like he hunted them down. He did not . He was inside his own home. It is his car he can move it. He did NOTHING that would have made it Ok for them to enter. If he would have saw them passing by and called them over and asked them to come in to help him with something and then once inside he shot the then Ok then i would say he was at fault . But to say it was premeditated when he did 0% of anything that made it Ok for them to come in just does not make sense to me. It is like Razor said the baiting makes no sense because moving the car was absolutely nothing that any normal person would be able to do it was not out of the ordinary. If like he said he left a sign that said I have lots of cash and i want you to have it please come in the doors unlocked and take it . Then yes that would have been baiting and luring them into the house. And yes mngambler i know that is what he was trying to do and what he was hoping. But moving his car does not give them the right to break n and make it his fault. If he was out at a store no difference they still should not be breaking in . Anyone at any time no matter what the reason should be able to park their car wherever they want without someone breaking in .

spin it however you want...bottom line is the guy knew exactly what he was going to do to the point it was fairly easily proven in a court of law, it was pre-meditated murder, period.

[JAKEPEAVY21]

shooting the intruders in the leg or arm and then call police probably would have accomplished everything the guy wanted

[captrobey]

If you see them needing help again, would you? My advice would be to do so. Give them pay for service acquired that day. Give them something to drink, find out who their daddy is... ask questions, what's their names?

Start with that ... their names, now you will be helping.. for real cap, people need real people to care in this world, to many people who put on good fronts or are deceiving themselves on how they really feel

It would depend. I already gave them twice more then they asked. for each cleaning. If they came back and completed the job yes , yes i would . If they expected cash again then no i would not.

And i have to run as i am writing this there was a drive by shooting outside i think the car ahead of ours was hit parked out there.

[brainfreeze]

Lol Ok maybe i am getting too mad for nothing that was actually a nice compliment you gave me lol. About your sister lol.

But my point before about the kids sister saying that was he could have got a job. Kids that are not lazy do that instead of stealing other peoples crap. I had no father growing up but i still knew it was wrong to steal so i took the bus and got a job . It is like the "Homeless"people that get in a new car and drive home to a nice house. They just do not want to work. The point to that was once again the people who rob others once again turn it around like it is the victims fault. To say how else was he supposed to get his money for books is one of the dumbest things anyone can say. Like it was Ok to rob people so he can buy stuff.

Surely not a compliment, my old lady can't stand her, and the old ladies heart is better than mine (who also has never known a day of trouble and also grew up without a dad) ... believe me,

But no, it's not right to steal, sorry to hear about your dad, mine was a degen gambler .. who stole from time to time even from his own kids to support his habit, worked and made good money but wasn't enough and why my mother divorced him ..

these beginning do effect us, rather not having one, have a degen gambler or a dc sniper for a dad figure ... these things effect people's lives and it's no ones responsibility to fix kids lives that come from dysfunctional beginnings but the people who find it in their heart to put themselves aside for a moment to help change someone's life for the better.

[jtoler]

The law doesnt like when you try to do their job, he should have gotten an alarm also. Looking at it more I think he just should have handled it differently. Im thinking now he was charged correctly. Does the police not take an ounce of blame for not thoroughly investigating though? No fingerprints taken after robbery, I remember I had a car stolen once and no fingerprints taken once it was recovered, that would seem like normal protocol to me. So he pays for being robbed by druggies and his error in judgement in how he handled it, the law expects citizens to be walking paralegals I guess.

[brainfreeze]

The law doesnt like when you try to do their job, he should have gotten an alarm also. Looking at it more I think he just should have handled it differently. Im thinking now he was charged correctly. Does the police not take an ounce of blame for not thoroughly investigating though? No fingerprints taken after robbery, I remember I had a car stolen once and no fingerprints taken once it was recovered, that would seem like normal protocol to me. So he pays for being robbed by druggies and his error in judgement in how he handled it, the law expects citizens to be walking paralegals I guess.

True, wanted to say this .. we live in a society with officer of authority. We have to call them, when you take things in your own hands .. you'll end up in bad situations 9 out of 10 x's

But the system is screwed to .. kids lives ruined regardless

[newguy]

thats what is scary of usa - people like him with quite a few screws loose own guns and can use them whenever they want even without a single consideration or fear of being sentenced for life.

A gun license with a mental health test ought to be legislated in the USA. Teens didnt deserve it - just small thieves - they were totally harmless and this guy was totally thinking someone is after him - he is mental no doubt.

Kids were dumb obviously - cause even my distant relative back in europe who was stealing back in 90s when he was a teenager told me a story of a TV celebrity they robbed 5 times and stupid woman never bothered even to upgrade her locks or hire a security service, she would just buy things all over. But my relative said after 5 times we thought to ourselves that is probably enough from her. Either we get caught or its just a shame to exploit her stupidity. Such a story 12 times is an overkill - they must have known that guy is mental and anticipated him letting them rob him like 100 more times

As a point of reference - how many times have you been robbed?

[qwertvt]

There is likely more to this story which we will never know.

[captrobey]

As a point of reference - how many times have you been robbed?

Wow just wow. So it was the "Stupid Celebrities " fault because she never got better locks or get a security service. So it is all her own fault she was robbed. How about this. Do not rob anyone at all . I hate thieves but it disgusts me more when the scumbags who are stealing turn it around like it is the victims own fault.

[brainfreeze]

Have a quick story i want to share... think it's relavent and will give some something to think about ... i grew up in a house that was really a mirage.. nice house, we had nothing inside and had a mortgage.. we lived right along side lower income and public housing... well these kids used to always steal my bike when i was say ten, didn't really know them..

as I grew older i hung out " on the block ", used to trade with the kids and play tackle football with a big rock in a field ...all we had, anyways ... when i got older, i was riding a really nice bike ( i was a sponsored bmx rider ) well, I was outside of a closed down grocery store and this big fat tall white kid had a problem, and so did his little buddies, they tried to strong arm me out of my bike... one of my buddies just clutched it while i ran around the block ... and guess who came to the rescue with some buds,

those kids from around the block ... i went home with my thousand dollar bike that day,

just sayin...

[newguy]

Wow just wow. So it was the "Stupid Celebrities " fault because she never got better locks or get a security service. So it is all her own fault she was robbed. How about this. Do not rob anyone at all . I hate thieves but it disgusts me more when the scumbags who are stealing turn it around like it is the victims own fault.

You might have misinterpreted where I was going. It's easy to say "turn the other cheek" if it hasn't happened to you. I've had my wallet and phone stolen numerous times from gym lockers (years ago) and had a Jeep Wrangler in Chicago that literally got broken into every weekend. To the point I would leave my sides unzipped and door unlocked just so they didn't have to break in (which is awesome in Chicago winters to have snow in your car all because assholes wanted to see if you left 18 cents in the cup holder).

I've always said the next person I ever catch robbing me would pay the price for all those others. I think someone who hasn't experienced how messed up it is to have things you work hard for taken from you doesn't understand that feeling you get and how it can piss you off to your core.

[captrobey]

Have a quick story i want to share... think it's relavent and will give some something to think about ... i grew up in a house that was really a mirage.. nice house, we had nothing inside and had a mortgage.. we lived right along side lower income and public housing... well these kids used to always steal my bike when i was say ten, didn't really know them..

as I grew older i hung out " on the block ", used to trade with the kids and play tackle football with a big rock in a field ...all we had, anyways ... when i got older, i was riding a really nice bike ( i was a sponsored bmx rider ) well, I was outside of a closed down grocery store and this big fat tall white kid had a problem, and so did his little buddies, they tried to strong arm me out of my bike... one of my buddies just clutched it while i ran around the block ... and guess who came to the rescue with some buds,

those kids from around the block ... i went home with my thousand dollar bike that day,

just sayin...

That is good and glad it worked out for you. Of course not all kids turn out bad . Nice that you made some friends.

[brainfreeze]

That is good and glad it worked out for you. Of course not all kids turn out bad . Nice that you made some friends.

Moral of the story ... so let's not play judge, juror, and executioner, and throw the first stone ... that's Gods place.

[bozeman]

As a point of reference - how many times have you been robbed?

Zero if u r talking about home robbery - i had money stolen from my business several times by employee and exemployees in the past and i had a phone stolen twice - and u ll be laughing - the second time happened this very morning! And u know none of those times i had a desire to beat the hell out of the thieves, one time I even forgave the dude - we had a chat with him and he changed his ways for all i know - he was a teen from a family of 6 kids who immigrated from some asian -Stan country with 100 percent desert and zero oil on it.

Other time when another 19 year old stole 500 from my wives business - i knew the guy had a fancy gamers laptop and desktop and his folks were well off - so I went to his house shoved him away from the door - took his games desktop and said - now we are even and warned him if he ever talks crap about my wife - i ll come back again( in case cops are reading this thread - FYI this happened in Russia)

One biatch I wasnt able to get revenge on - she scammed a lot of people(dozens) on immigration and I just dont have time to fly to the Ukraine to smash her car with a baseball bat - but if i ever end up in Vinnitsa - I ll get her!!

Robbery is a financial crime - so revenge has to deal with financial damage to the thief but not a thieves health - thats the point as i think. thats why what the guy did was totally wrong - he should have either shot dude in the leg and called the cops or followed the guy to his home and burnt his car or smth but not take a kids life - and u can see he made several shots - so this was A MURDER for whatever reason

I rest my case

[captrobey]

You might have misinterpreted where I was going. It's easy to say "turn the other cheek" if it hasn't happened to you. I've had my wallet and phone stolen numerous times from gym lockers (years ago) and had a Jeep Wrangler in Chicago that literally got broken into every weekend. To the point I would leave my sides unzipped and door unlocked just so they didn't have to break in (which is awesome in Chicago winters to have snow in your car all because assholes wanted to see if you left 18 cents in the cup holder).

I've always said the next person I ever catch robbing me would pay the price for all those others. I think someone who hasn't experienced how messed up it is to have things you work hard for taken from you doesn't understand that feeling you get and how it can piss you off to your core.

Sorry you are right i did take that wrong then and i apologize. As Brainfreeze says there are some that are not bad. As i was writing stuff on here earlier i had to go because there was a Drive By Shooting outside my house. The police were looking at the car in front of my wifes our neighbors car because they thought it may have gotten hit .They looked at the next car which was my wifes car but did not see any bullets. Living in Camden i see people being preyed on . There are a couple that seem like they want to do the right thing . My neighbors boy is wonderful always was a good kid knew him for years. Never got involved with the bad crowd. His mom is a single mom. They always worked and i respected that. So you make the choices to do right or wrong
But stealing a bike from a yard is a whole different level then breaking into a persons home. This and my car are off limits. If you break into here you are scum. To me there is no in between. This is where i am supposed to live my life and feel totally safe. They took over $50000 from this guy. He lost all of it the only thing they recovered was 1 gun and a camera the rest they sold.It just gets me so angry when they entered his home AGAIN to take more and now this poor guy has to spend the rest of his life in jail. Unllss of course he gets an appeal. It looks like the main reason he was guilty was they allowed the video and recording as evidence but did not allow the jury to know these same kids robbed him Over and Over.

[bozeman]

oh by the way my first year in canada - i left a bike unlocked for an hour at a bus station to find it gone after - funny enough whoever took it put it back there in 3 days

Newguy and imagine people start shooting each other for whatever reason - armed unarmed - what would the city u live in turn into? something like Detroit I hear these days right? U buy a furniture there and as u carry it into your front door someone is already loading it piece by piece from your back door - a nice way to bring real estate prices down and buy a nice house, eh?

[bozeman]

Sorry you are right i did take that wrong then and i apologize. As Brainfreeze says there are some that are not bad. As i was writing stuff on here earlier i had to go because there was a Drive By Shooting outside my house. The police were looking at the car in front of my wifes our neighbors car because they thought it may have gotten hit .They looked at the next car which was my wifes car but did not see any bullets. Living in Camden i see people being preyed on . There are a couple that seem like they want to do the right thing . My neighbors boy is wonderful always was a good kid knew him for years. Never got involved with the bad crowd. His mom is a single mom. They always worked and i respected that. So you make the choices to do right or wrong
But stealing a bike from a yard is a whole different level then breaking into a persons home. This and my car are off limits. If you break into here you are scum. To me there is no in between. This is where i am supposed to live my life and feel totally safe. They took over $50000 from this guy. He lost all of it the only thing they recovered was 1 gun and a camera the rest they sold.It just gets me so angry when they entered his home AGAIN to take more and now this poor guy has to spend the rest of his life in jail. Unllss of course he gets an appeal. It looks like the main reason he was guilty was they allowed the video and recording as evidence but did not allow the jury to know these same kids robbed him Over and Over.

did u know USA puts more people in jail than any other country in the world and it is a business over there? Every county sheriff or a private jail gets some crazy dollar per day for every prisoner they contain! I am so happy i didnt immigrate to that crazy wild gun country of yours!
I am not surprised someone intentionally concealed from the juries a fact kids came back like 12 times into that home - cause they personally wanted that dude in jail - he should appeal all the way i think if that is how the trial went!

And your tax money goes toward this crazy Imprison everyone for the longest u can machine! And USA dares to critisize Russia for political repressions! LMAO

[newguy]

oh by the way my first year in canada - i left a bike unlocked for an hour at a bus station to find it gone after - funny enough whoever took it put it back there in 3 days

Newguy and imagine people start shooting each other for whatever reason - armed unarmed - what would the city u live in turn into? something like Detroit I hear these days right? U buy a furniture there and as u carry it into your front door someone is already loading it piece by piece from your back door - a nice way to bring real estate prices down and buy a nice house, eh?

The gun is my biggest beef with the whole initial story for this thread. Me - I ever catch them - I'm breaking both their arms for sure. I don't need a gun unless you come at me w one. Those two kids - I would have beat the shit out of them and hope it de escalated from there.

[maggiethebestdog]

This isn't that complicated. You cannot shoot an obviously unarmed and gunshot incapacitated kid in the head to finish the job. Society certainly creates this paranoid feeling by giving victims no rights but this is so far over the top it is frightening.

[TheMoneyShot]

So guys... what is the moral of this story? I think it's plain and simple... if the guy never had any audio recordings... guy probably wouldn't be in jail.

What was the point recording yourself? If you're going to record what you're going to do... that's borderline psycho. So basically he's in jail because he's a psychopath. I'm almost 100% certain he walks a free man without those recordings.

shooting the intruders in the leg or arm and then call police probably would have accomplished everything the guy wanted

For the most part this is true. I will admit... I'm a bad aim. In the heat of the moment... I would probably aim for an arm... and hit him/her in the chest. I'd call the cops immediately though.... and not record myself.

[maggiethebestdog]

I think it is ridiculous to say someone should shoot to wound someone in the legs or arm. Most people can't do that and that can easily kill someone. Guns are meant to kill people, not to scare or wound them. If you make that crucial decision to shoot you shoot to kill. Any responsible gun owner knows this.

[Kermit]

This isn't that complicated. You cannot shoot an obviously unarmed and gunshot incapacitated kid in the head to finish the job.

This is exactly why he got convicted and deservingly so.

The fact that this guy recorded himself doing what he did makes me wonder why the defense didn't go for insanity.

[brainfreeze]

You might have misinterpreted where I was going. It's easy to say "turn the other cheek" if it hasn't happened to you. I've had my wallet and phone stolen numerous times from gym lockers (years ago) and had a Jeep Wrangler in Chicago that literally got broken into every weekend. To the point I would leave my sides unzipped and door unlocked just so they didn't have to break in (which is awesome in Chicago winters to have snow in your car all because assholes wanted to see if you left 18 cents in the cup holder).

I've always said the next person I ever catch robbing me would pay the price for all those others. I think someone who hasn't experienced how messed up it is to have things you work hard for taken from you doesn't understand that feeling you get and how it can piss you off to your core.

sorry that happened to you ....


but here's a gift from a former thief. Grudges are no good, and hate is an ill dispersement of life and energy. Don't know if you will ever get taken from again but ..

#noHardFeelings

[5mike5]

Don't forget the little girl he murdered too just coming in to check on her cousin after shots rang out. He moved his body so she wouldn't be alarmed when she came down the stairs. What a coward this old man is. Shot her and didn't kill so he put 1 in her eye socket. as u recall he planned this from start to finish. Disgusting. hope he gets raped daily

[captrobey]

Don't forget the little girl he murdered too just coming in to check on her cousin after shots rang out. He moved his body so she wouldn't be alarmed when she came down the stairs. What a coward this old man is. Shot her and didn't kill so he put 1 in her eye socket. as u recall he planned this from start to finish. Disgusting. hope he gets raped daily

Yea but he did not know that and they said she assisted him before in robbing him. And she was not really a little girl everyone keeps making it like they were 12 or 13 they were i think 17 and 18 old enough to know better. But then again a 15 year old would know that too. You keep saying he is a coward . They are the ones that preyed on him. I saw the list of stuff stolen from him over $50000 . As that were not enough they put masks on once and went outside his door trying just to scare him . It was the Nick kid the other i think was not the girl but another kid that used to be a lookout. On top of everything else they also totally ransacked and destroyed his house throwing around and breaking stuff . Yea he went overboard and snapped. Yea he wanted revenge. But none of this would have happened if they did not keep terrorizing this guy and break into his house -again.

[rkelly110]

Premeditated. Lock him up.

[5mike5]

Bottom line the old fukk is getting what he deserves. Glad he will rot and die there

[5mike5]

And yes I do consider high school girls little girls. And she wasn't helping him rob this guy is the bottom line