"Making a Murderer" Doc

[Ted Sheckler]

careful, some guys around here might drop different kinds of loads

That's the only type I was thinking of. I guess some people would LOVE for him to move in next door, but to rank Avery up there with Shannyn Sossamon, quite the stretch.

Now I get that he was saying, they'd be scared. I can't believe I argue with MuHerd, I am simple.

[d2bets]

It's possible that the police planted evidence AND he did it. It's just very hard to tell. You don't have to believe Avery is a good guy to say he's innocent. We know he was innocent of the crime that he did 18 years for.

[d2bets]

"Dream/Killer" documentary by Andrew Jenks will be released next month on itunes. It's about the Ryan Ferguson case from Missouri. If you don't know the case (or if you do), watch it. I haven't seen it yet, but I've heard it is well done and the story is a must-know.

http://www.andrewjenks.com/dreamkiller/

[capone1899]

No, many didn't. That's why so many people are signing the petitions. Bunch of lunatics believe it's all true. Shit loads of people on twitter talking about it and believing every piece of it.

People are just showing how incredibly stupid they are. Anyone who is signing a petition for a pardon, or thinks he's 100% innocent , is a complete idiot.

[FlipsideRM]

Let's say he's guilty.

you don't think after 10 years the guy would finally admit to it? 10 years is a lot of guilt and I'd want to get that off my conscious. Secondly, why would this guy be spending day and night in the law library preparing his own defense if he's actually guilty. 3rd, the district attorney was the ACTUAL PERV, did you guys not see him trying to take advantage of the previous rape victim through sext messages? What a fuking creep.

I absolutely believe that Brandon dassey at 16 was coerced into giving a false confession. He's a dumb learning challenged kid who didn't realize the severity of the situation. He even thought he was going to go back to school right after confessing a gruesome murder.

This is guy is innocent, get the edta test out. Those cops are more crooked than my fuking dick.

[VeggieDog]

I think he did it, and the cops had to plant evidence to make sure there was a conviction.

[jtoler]

I know I haven't earned a right to make a non-sports based post, and I've been waiting patiently, but no one is making my day.

Has anyone else seen the "Making a Murderer" documentary on Netflix?

I am always 100% on the side of the cops/prosecution, but in this case, I can't be, no matter how hard I try.

This is a tragedy and an embarrassment to the system. Does anyone think this guy doesn't have reasonable doubt?? The framing facts are just so incredible...

250,000 people signed the petition fo free Steven Avery, and will probably be 300,000 when I wake up.

Nuts.

Loaded statement, age, race, demographical upbringing, education level, and social status can all be deduced from such.

[jtoler]

You don't think one bit that the cops had planted that? HOW in the world was only his blood on those keys, NO trace what so ever of her DNA, on HER keys. So Avery scrubbed her keys nice and clean, so no other DNA on them, then of course got silly and put his blood on it?

And all the shit about her blood in the back of her truck. They said she was murdered in the garage, they put the body in the truck, then drove ALL THE WAY to the burn spot, 10 feet away.

Some silly shit was going in it seemed. But soon as we finished watching, my wife googled it and saw the story about how Teresea didn't want to go over and take pictures at his house anymore, because the story of opening the door in his towel. And that when he called Autotrader and requested the same girl, he used his sisters address and not his, so the same girl would come, even though they lived right next to each other. 100% the guy was a creep. And 100% they left info out from the documentary, but just watching it, seemed like 90% chance cops framed him. After reading some shit online, I drop to 50/50.

First time Ive ever seen you make a logical common sense statement, figured perp had to be white and sure enough.

[SharpAngles]

Anybody thinking Avery is without a doubt innocent has not looked into the case beyond the doc. There was evidence convieniently left out by the producers such as the victim complaining to her boss about Avery, saying she would not go after the last assignment because of his creepiness towards her. Or him buying handcuffs and leg irons weeks before the murder. Or his DNA being on the hood latch of her RAV4. No backwoods cop is smart enough to plant DNA somewhere like the inside of a hood latch. They stick to squirting blood in obvious places or finding keys after 9 searches.

It says a lot that the pre trial juror poll showed 7 of them highly suspicious of his guilt, yet they all ended up convicting. There was some evidence that changed their minds that just happens to be left out of the doc. Understandable since that could really cloud the filmmakers real message here.

[d2bets]

Anybody thinking Avery is without a doubt innocent has not looked into the case beyond the doc. There was evidence convieniently left out by the producers such as the victim complaining to her boss about Avery, saying she would not go after the last assignment because of his creepiness towards her. Or him buying handcuffs and leg irons weeks before the murder. Or his DNA being on the hood latch of her RAV4. No backwoods cop is smart enough to plant DNA somewhere like the inside of a hood latch. They stick to squirting blood in obvious places or finding keys after 9 searches.

It says a lot that the pre trial juror poll showed 7 of them highly suspicious of his guilt, yet they all ended up convicting. There was some evidence that changed their minds that just happens to be left out of the doc. Understandable since that could really cloud the filmmakers real message here.

I think they said that after the jury got the case the first vote was 7 NOT GUILTY; 5 GUILTY. The 5 convinced the 7. Just today it came out that at least one juror thinks he's innocent and was framed.

[Ted Sheckler]

First time Ive ever seen you make a logical common sense statement, figured perp had to be white and sure enough.

Wow, nobody talking about race and here comes jtoler trying to make it about that. Create a new thread if you're bored, we can chat there.

[GUMMO77]

The Brandon Dassey part of this case freaks me out more than anything. He should be the one getting the attention, and not Avery.

The two things that still bounce around my head with Avery is he and a buddy poured gasoline on a cat and lit it on fire, AND he was accused by his cousin of exposing himself. Those two incidents are big red flags.

[DwightShrute]

Ehh. After watching it, did you think "hey something is fishy here".
Anyone who doesn't think that
A) Knew/read all about the show/case before watching.
B) On the Brendan Dasseys level.
C) A little of both.

[Gooleez21]

Good show but it is just that, a TV show. No way all sides are evenly depicted. Producers, directors will make the story say what they want it to, innocent or not. Only watched the first one but will probably finish.

[SharpAngles]

3 most damning pieces of evidence left out of this docudrama...

http://www.thewrap.com/making-a-murderer-prosecutor-ken-kratz-steven-avery-9-reasons-guilty/

2. Avery targeted Teresa. On Oct 31 (8:12 am) he called AutoTrader magazine and asked them to send “that same girl who was here last time.” On Oct 10, Teresa had been to the Avery property when Steve answered the door just wearing a towel. She said she would not go back because she was scared of him (obviously). Avery used a fake name and fake # (his sister’s) giving those to the AutoTrader receptionist, to trick Teresa into coming.

7. Phone records show 3 calls from Avery to Teresa’s cell phone on Oct 31. One at 2:24, and one at 2:35–both calls Avery uses the *67 feature so Teresa doesn’t know it him…both placed before she arrives. Then one last call at4:35 pm, without the *67 feature. Avery first believes he can simply say she never showed up (his original defense), so tries to establish the alibi call after she’s already been there, hence the 4:35 call. She will never answer of course, so he doesn’t need the *67 feature for that last call.
8. Avery’s DNA (not blood) was on the victim’s hood latch (under her hood in her hidden SUV). The SUV was at the crime lab since 11/5…how did his DNA get under the hood if Avery never touched her car? Do the cops have a vial of Avery’s sweat to “plant” under the hood?

[Emily_Haines]

Anyone dousing a cat with oil and gasoline and then throwing it into a fire has some severe issues and certainly capable of being a murderer. The only other person that could have done it was that retard kid and I'm pretty sure the dead chick would have kicked his ass. I'm 100% sure he did it and I'd have him serving life for killing the cat. Guy is a piece of shit and is where he belongs.

[d2bets]

3 most damning pieces of evidence left out of this docudrama...

http://www.thewrap.com/making-a-murderer-prosecutor-ken-kratz-steven-avery-9-reasons-guilty/

2. Avery targeted Teresa. On Oct 31 (8:12 am) he called AutoTrader magazine and asked them to send “that same girl who was here last time.” On Oct 10, Teresa had been to the Avery property when Steve answered the door just wearing a towel. She said she would not go back because she was scared of him (obviously). Avery used a fake name and fake # (his sister’s) giving those to the AutoTrader receptionist, to trick Teresa into coming.

7. Phone records show 3 calls from Avery to Teresa’s cell phone on Oct 31. One at 2:24, and one at 2:35–both calls Avery uses the *67 feature so Teresa doesn’t know it him…both placed before she arrives. Then one last call at4:35 pm, without the *67 feature. Avery first believes he can simply say she never showed up (his original defense), so tries to establish the alibi call after she’s already been there, hence the 4:35 call. She will never answer of course, so he doesn’t need the *67 feature for that last call.
8. Avery’s DNA (not blood) was on the victim’s hood latch (under her hood in her hidden SUV). The SUV was at the crime lab since 11/5…how did his DNA get under the hood if Avery never touched her car? Do the cops have a vial of Avery’s sweat to “plant” under the hood?

You trust these "facts" from scumbag Ken Kratz? I don't. Have you looked at the actual transcripts?

[scumbag]

Anyone dousing a cat with oil and gasoline and then throwing it into a fire has some severe issues and certainly capable of being a murderer. The only other person that could have done it was that retard kid and I'm pretty sure the dead chick would have kicked his ass. I'm 100% sure he did it and I'd have him serving life for killing the cat. Guy is a piece of shit and is where he belongs.

yep, lets convict a halfwit based on his past, even though there is a mountain of reasonable doubt about the prosecutions narrative (i.e., no blood in the trailer despite prosecution asserting her throat was slit there. no blood in the extremely cluttered garage despite the prosecution asserting she was shot in the head there).

the blood evidence in the car is even more reasonable doubt. he had a cut on his hand that the prosecution says caused his blood to be left in the rav 4. yet, no fingerprints, no hair, no skin cells, nothing other than the probably planted blood.

you people give someone with an IQ below room temperature way too much credit for being able to clean his tracks so superbly.

i'm not 100% sure about anything in this case. but i am 100% sure that there was more than enough reasonable doubt to warrant a not guilty verdict.

[DwightShrute]

yep, lets convict a halfwit based on his past, even though there is a mountain of reasonable doubt about the prosecutions narrative (i.e., no blood in the trailer despite prosecution asserting her throat was slit there. no blood in the extremely cluttered garage despite the prosecution asserting she was shot in the head there).

the blood evidence in the car is even more reasonable doubt. he had a cut on his hand that the prosecution says caused his blood to be left in the rav 4. yet, no fingerprints, no hair, no skin cells, nothing other than the probably planted blood.

you people give someone with an IQ below room temperature way too much credit for being able to clean his tracks so superbly.

i'm not 100% sure about anything in this case. but i am 100% sure that there was more than enough reasonable doubt to warrant a not guilty verdict.

agreed. The fact there was no blood in the bedroom of that tiny trailer after he supposedly cut her throat is all you need to know that something ain't right in this case. No DNA of her in the room. Only his dna on the key is impossible and how on earth can you explain the tampered blood vile with the obvious hole where a syringe was inserted?

Anyone who says they are a 100% certain he is guilty is lying.

[scumbag]

3 most damning pieces of evidence left out of this docudrama...

http://www.thewrap.com/making-a-murderer-prosecutor-ken-kratz-steven-avery-9-reasons-guilty/

2. Avery targeted Teresa. On Oct 31 (8:12 am) he called AutoTrader magazine and asked them to send “that same girl who was here last time.” On Oct 10, Teresa had been to the Avery property when Steve answered the door just wearing a towel. She said she would not go back because she was scared of him (obviously). Avery used a fake name and fake # (his sister’s) giving those to the AutoTrader receptionist, to trick Teresa into coming.

7. Phone records show 3 calls from Avery to Teresa’s cell phone on Oct 31. One at 2:24, and one at 2:35–both calls Avery uses the *67 feature so Teresa doesn’t know it him…both placed before she arrives. Then one last call at4:35 pm, without the *67 feature. Avery first believes he can simply say she never showed up (his original defense), so tries to establish the alibi call after she’s already been there, hence the 4:35 call. She will never answer of course, so he doesn’t need the *67 feature for that last call.
8. Avery’s DNA (not blood) was on the victim’s hood latch (under her hood in her hidden SUV). The SUV was at the crime lab since 11/5…how did his DNA get under the hood if Avery never touched her car? Do the cops have a vial of Avery’s sweat to “plant” under the hood?

did you miss the part where the DNA lady had orders to put the victim in the garage? and the cross-contamination of the bullet that was never retested. i'd don't trust this "evidence". if he was in the car - and bled in the car - why isn't there a single other piece of evidence in the car to prove he was in it (i.e., hair, skin cells, finger prints, etc.)?

[scumbag]

It says a lot that the pre trial juror poll showed 7 of them highly suspicious of his guilt, yet they all ended up convicting. There was some evidence that changed their minds that just happens to be left out of the doc. Understandable since that could really cloud the filmmakers real message here.

this one of the issues with our so-called justice system: people like me, through sheer force of will, are able to bully the rest of the jurors into changing their minds.

this shit happens all the time. people are sheep. people dislike confrontation. many people are weak-willed. strong personalities have the ability to change verdicts.

i'm not sure how you combat this, but surely we can all agree that this happens often.

[scumbag]

watched 12 angry men for the first time a few month ago; that should be required of every person who serves on a jury, in my opinion.

i'd like to hear who people think the alternative suspects could be. my instincts made me feel that brendan's older brother and the dude he went hunting with probably did it. something was just kind of fishy there. they had the caliber weapon that she was shot with, and they alibi each other.

i just have a hard time believing that someone who had a future to look forward to (with the settlement coming and having a relationship) would suddenly turn into a rapist/killer.

[DwightShrute]

Steven Avery -- My Brothers May Have Killed Teresa Halbach
Steven Avery claims his own two brothers may have killed Teresa Halbach -- especially one who he says had a history of harassing women at the exact…

TMZ.ME

[SharpAngles]

watched 12 angry men for the first time a few month ago; that should be required of every person who serves on a jury, in my opinion.

i'd like to hear who people think the alternative suspects could be. my instincts made me feel that brendan's older brother and the dude he went hunting with probably did it. something was just kind of fishy there. they had the caliber weapon that she was shot with, and they alibi each other.

i just have a hard time believing that someone who had a future to look forward to (with the settlement coming and having a relationship) would suddenly turn into a rapist/killer.

Read his post conviction motion and you'll get the defenses theories. He names every member of his family, including his mom and dad, and a few others close to people on the property including motive and opportunity for each one. Real class act this Avery is. First its the cops who framed him and now it's got to be a family member

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3ypbns/documents_in_the_avery_and_dassey_cases/

As for your last line, what if he decided that no jury would convict based on his history and in his simple mind this was something of a "perfect crime"? 18 years in the joint messes with your head, whether you're guilty or not.

[d2bets]

Read his post conviction motion and you'll get the defenses theories. He names every member of his family, including his mom and dad, and a few others close to people on the property including motive and opportunity for each one. Real class act this Avery is. First its the cops who framed him and now it's got to be a family member

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3ypbns/documents_in_the_avery_and_dassey_cases/

As for your last line, what if he decided that no jury would convict based on his history and in his simple mind this was something of a "perfect crime"? 18 years in the joint messes with your head, whether you're guilty or not.

No, it's not "first" and "now." Whether or not he did it, the cops did frame him (he never claimed that they actually killed her). And the notion that someone else in his family might have done it is nothing new. He wasn't allowed to present alternate suspects at trial. If he didn't do it, why would it be inappropriate for him to point out that other family members had motive and opportunity?

Personally, I'm up in the air as to whether he did it. It hasn't been proven either way. I'm not up in the air as to whether the cops planted evidence -- the key in particular -- without a doubt, they did.

[DiggityDaggityDo]

Fuk that documentary. Had me stuck to the tv watching 10 episodes in 2 days.

Brendon is one dumb mother fukker, but he is innocent. The cops fukked him good. Let him free, he just wants to see WrestleMania.

[grease lightnin]

3 most damning pieces of evidence left out of this docudrama...

http://www.thewrap.com/making-a-murderer-prosecutor-ken-kratz-steven-avery-9-reasons-guilty/

2. Avery targeted Teresa. On Oct 31 (8:12 am) he called AutoTrader magazine and asked them to send “that same girl who was here last time.” On Oct 10, Teresa had been to the Avery property when Steve answered the door just wearing a towel. She said she would not go back because she was scared of him (obviously). Avery used a fake name and fake # (his sister’s) giving those to the AutoTrader receptionist, to trick Teresa into coming.

7. Phone records show 3 calls from Avery to Teresa’s cell phone on Oct 31. One at 2:24, and one at 2:35–both calls Avery uses the *67 feature so Teresa doesn’t know it him…both placed before she arrives. Then one last call at4:35 pm, without the *67 feature. Avery first believes he can simply say she never showed up (his original defense), so tries to establish the alibi call after she’s already been there, hence the 4:35 call. She will never answer of course, so he doesn’t need the *67 feature for that last call.
8. Avery’s DNA (not blood) was on the victim’s hood latch (under her hood in her hidden SUV). The SUV was at the crime lab since 11/5…how did his DNA get under the hood if Avery never touched her car? Do the cops have a vial of Avery’s sweat to “plant” under the hood?

And there is more in that link. The only issue I have with this additional "evidence" is that any mention of it I have seen comes from Kratz, who has little or no credibility.

Has anyone seen mention of this evidence from any other sources?

[d2bets]

Guys, if you don't think prosecutors can railroad a defendant, google "Ryan Ferguson" and then watch "dream/killer" documentary when it is released next month.

http://www.andrewjenks.com/dreamkiller/

[SharpAngles]

No, it's not "first" and "now." Whether or not he did it, the cops did frame him (he never claimed that they actually killed her). And the notion that someone else in his family might have done it is nothing new. He wasn't allowed to present alternate suspects at trial. If he didn't do it, why would it be inappropriate for him to point out that other family members had motive and opportunity?

Personally, I'm up in the air as to whether he did it. It hasn't been proven either way. I'm not up in the air as to whether the cops planted evidence -- the key in particular -- without a doubt, they did.

Framed is a different thing than planted evidence to ensure conviction. This guy was without a doubt framed for the 80's rape. In the murder case the cops probably planted evidence but it's because they knew he did it. Obviously I don't think it's right but that happens all the time in America so makes the most sense.

The main evidence in my mind is the phone records with the *67 feature and the last call without, him requesting her multiple times and her complaining about creepy actions to coworkers and telling her boss shortly before being murdered that she refused to go back out there. In fact the only reason she did come out the 31st was Avery using his sisters name and address across the yard.

He originally told the police she didn't show and then the story changed. The phone records are so suspicious once he tells them she wasn't there and has to back pedal.

This is all sworn testimony available in the docs I linked above, not made up stories from a scummy special prosecutor.

And there is more in that link. The only issue I have with this additional "evidence" is that any mention of it I have seen comes from Kratz, who has little or no credibility.

Has anyone seen mention of this evidence from any other sources?

Its all evidence the jury heard but was left out of the doc. I wonder why they convicted while so many who's sole knowledge of this case is a netflix docudrama are convinced he's just a poor hillbilly the cops hate

[grease lightnin]

Its all evidence the jury heard

How do you know this for sure?

[Ted Sheckler]

Personally, I'm up in the air as to whether he did it. It hasn't been proven either way. I'm not up in the air as to whether the cops planted evidence -- the key in particular -- without a doubt, they did.

I bet if there was a poll taken with just this:

Option A : 100% guilty
Option B : 100% not guilty
Option C : Not sure whether he did it, but cops 100% planted the key

Option C would be the most voted for.

[SharpAngles]

How do you know this for sure?

This is the most convenient list of court docs I've found. Public records of all the important filings and evidence, including evidence not heard by the jury but was argued to the judge such as the coworkers testimony that he answered his trailer door in a towel and did something that creeped the girl out that the judge found inflammatory and didn't allow. If Willis was in on framing Avery like the docudrama suggests why deny the jury from hearing that?

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3ypbns/documents_in_the_avery_and_dassey_cases/

I bet if there was a poll taken with just this:

Option A : 100% guilty
Option B : 100% not guilty
Option C : Not sure whether he did it, but cops 100% planted the key

Option C would be the most voted for.

[d2bets]

This is the most convenient list of court docs I've found. Public records of all the important filings and evidence, including evidence not heard by the jury but was argued to the judge such as the coworkers testimony that he answered his trailer door in a towel and did something that creeped the girl out that the judge found inflammatory and didn't allow. If Willis was in on framing Avery like the docudrama suggests why deny the jury from hearing that?

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3ypbns/documents_in_the_avery_and_dassey_cases/

Who suggested that the JUDGE was in on framing Avery? Where do you get such nonsense from? Judge may or may not have made some questionable decisions, but when did anyone alleged that he framed him? That's just crazy talk.

[Ted Sheckler]

http://brobible.com/entertainment/article/making-a-murderer-most-attractive-people/6/

The 10 hottest people from the documentary. Have to agree with #1 and #2

[bluefish]

She didn't like it. Sorry for ruining your day.