The flipside to Ferguson!

[itchypickle]

Agreed. I think the root of many altercations such as this is policing culture and the people who become a police officers in the United States.

Policing should be, in theory, a highly respected profession. It has become a second chance at a career for drop-outs, dead-beats, the uneducated, addicts and assholes. Not all. But Many.

True. I get it in the cases of areas with high crime and violence....can't have Barney Fife walking around in Chicago on a saturday with just a whistle and a ticket book....same way its not good for a gym rat with a power trip to be assigned to a soccer mom suburb. One thing for sure, its not an easy profession these days.

[shari91]

By many accounts, he lunged for his gun.
Lunge for a cops gun, usually it doesn't end pretty.

There is not "many accounts". There are a grand total of 1 1/2 people who have said that's what happened: The Chief reporting Wilson's story and his supposed friend "Josie" who while she admitted wasn't there, wanted to relay what she heard from Wilson. So actually we can just bring it down to one account and fortunately for Wilson, the other party involved is dead. He made sure of that. Have you heard the audio of the shots being fired that was released tonight? I listened to that and immediately thought of my son and I almost vomited.

[Kermit]

I do have one question about this new audio tape that recently came out.
If there were 6 shots fired and then 4 more shots fired, doesn't this go against everything that the other witnesses have claimed?

Dorian Johnson said there was a shot near the car and then they ran and the cop fired another shot that hit Brown in the back and then Brown turned around to surrender, but all we hear is 6 shots being fired in succession and then a pause and then 4 more. This doesn't jive with Dorian's story at all.

That is of course if this audio is real.

"The officer is approaching us and as he pulled up on the side of us, he didn't say freeze, halt or anything like we were committing a crime. He said, 'Get the F on the sidewalk.'
After Johnson said the officer thrust open the door of his patrol car, hitting the pair, Johnson said the officer grabbed Brown around the neck and tried to pull him through the window. He said Brown never tried to reach for the officer's weapon.

"The second time he says, 'I'll shoot,' a second later the gun went off and he let go," Johnson said. "That's how we were able to run at the same time. The first car I see, I ducked behind for because I fear for my life. I'm scared. I don't know what's going on. I don't understand why this officer is shooting his weapon at us."
According to Johnson, the officer pursued Brown and fired another shot. which struck Brown in the back. He said Brown turned and faced the officer with his hands raised.
"My friend started to tell the officer that he was unarmed and that he could stop shooting (him)," Johnson said. "Before he could get his second sentence out, the officer fired several more shots into his head and chest area. He fell dramatically into the fatal position. I did not hear once he yell freeze, stop or halt. it was just horrible to watch."
Johnson said he could tell Brown was in pain after the shooting.

[stevenash]

There is not "many accounts". There are a grand total of 1 1/2 people who have said that's what happened: The Chief reporting Wilson's story and his supposed friend "Josie" who while she admitted wasn't there, wanted to relay what she heard from Wilson. So actually we can just bring it down to one account and fortunately for Wilson, the other party involved is dead. He made sure of that. Have you heard the audio of the shots being fired that was released tonight? I listened to that and immediately thought of my son and I almost vomited.

Fine, let's prosecute Wilson before the facts are in, let's make Brown a hero. Let's make pretend Wilson never got assaulted.

[stevenash]

The man shot just strong armed a robbery, the man shot assaulted a cop, the witness to all this is a proven liar, and the white man is guilty

[shari91]

And how ironic...

I go to search about Dillon's death and the first link is to some wacked site that talks about how Mike Brown apparently fractured Wilson's eye socket. Something that's been debunked repeatedly. So chuck that one out.

The next, from Fox mind you, has quotes saying this:

“I just feel like if the cop is innocent then they would release the footage and the 911 call, why are they waiting so long to release all that information? Especially for the family — they want to know those things,” said Fatima Badran, who organized the protest.

Sound familiar?! ^^^


And then:


"Police still aren’t saying whether Taylor was armed or not but they did say he was wanted on a probation violation in connection with a felony robbery — information some say is an attack on his character."

Uh oh... he might've been armed. And committed a felony robbery and violated probation. Yelp. But yeah, it's ok for Fox to try to go in on Mike every which way and we know for a FACT he wasn't armed.

"“I don’t think he deserved to die by a police officer. So often times the media likes to bring up the character of the individual involved and what that does it persuades a lot of backwards people that these were actually criminals deserving of what they got,” said Chris Manor, a protestor."

You don't say. Does that rule work for everyone or just us white folk?

"Taylor’s aunt said he was like a son to her and while he may have had a rough life, losing his parents six years ago, the soon-to-be dad didn’t deserve to die."

Uh oh. He led a rough life. You know what that means...

"Justice means they learn how to control their firearms. If the tables were turned and Dillon would have jumped the gun or hurt one of them, he’d be sitting behind bars, he would have to pay the consequence. These guys have to be responsible for their actions as well,” Thayne said."

Not if you hear the justifications many are trying to spew about Wilson killing Mike Brown. Sorry dude... cops shoot to kill apparently and since you 'might' have been armed, were on probation, had a rough upbringing, etc...you deserved it.

See how shithouse that sounds when the tables are turned?

http://fox13now.com/2014/08/25/dozens-protest-death-of-dillon-taylor-shot-by-slc-police-officer/

[stevenash]

Can we wait until all the evidnece is in before we rush to judgement.
And when all the evidence is in, and if Wilson is found justified, it still won't be good enough.
I'll still be a cracker, even if I never cracked a whip, even if I come from slave heritage, I'm still a racist.

[shari91]

I do have one question about this new audio tape that recently came out.
If there were 6 shots fired and then 4 more shots fired, doesn't this go against everything that the other witnesses have claimed?

Dorian Johnson said there was a shot near the car and then they ran and the cop fired another shot that hit Brown in the back and then Brown turned around to surrender, but all we hear is 6 shots being fired in succession and then a pause and then 4 more. This doesn't jive with Dorian's story at all.

That is of course if this audio is real.

"The officer is approaching us and as he pulled up on the side of us, he didn't say freeze, halt or anything like we were committing a crime. He said, 'Get the F on the sidewalk.'
After Johnson said the officer thrust open the door of his patrol car, hitting the pair, Johnson said the officer grabbed Brown around the neck and tried to pull him through the window. He said Brown never tried to reach for the officer's weapon.

"The second time he says, 'I'll shoot,' a second later the gun went off and he let go," Johnson said. "That's how we were able to run at the same time. The first car I see, I ducked behind for because I fear for my life. I'm scared. I don't know what's going on. I don't understand why this officer is shooting his weapon at us."
According to Johnson, the officer pursued Brown and fired another shot. which struck Brown in the back. He said Brown turned and faced the officer with his hands raised.
"My friend started to tell the officer that he was unarmed and that he could stop shooting (him)," Johnson said. "Before he could get his second sentence out, the officer fired several more shots into his head and chest area. He fell dramatically into the fatal position. I did not hear once he yell freeze, stop or halt. it was just horrible to watch."
Johnson said he could tell Brown was in pain after the shooting.

It's already been said that the FBI has the audio and will determine when it started recording. His recording might've missed the first shot(s) - if they happened. The dude didn't even know he was recording at all as you can tell from that soft porn conversation. How embarrassing for the guy, really.

[Kermit]

It's already been said that the FBI has the audio and will determine when it started recording. His recording might've missed the first shot(s) - if they happened. The dude didn't even know he was recording at all as you can tell from that soft porn conversation. How embarrassing for the guy, really.

Yeah, no wonder he didn't want his name mentioned, but I am sure plenty of people who know him have already recognized his voice.

The amazing thing was how he completely ignored the fact that gunfire was going on in the background like it was normal.

[stevenash]

And how ironic...

I go to search about Dillon's death and the first link is to some wacked site that talks about how Mike Brown apparently fractured Wilson's eye socket. Something that's been debunked repeatedly. So chuck that one out.

The next, from Fox mind you, has quotes saying this:

“I just feel like if the cop is innocent then they would release the footage and the 911 call, why are they waiting so long to release all that information? Especially for the family — they want to know those things,” said Fatima Badran, who organized the protest.

Sound familiar?! ^^^


And then:


"Police still aren’t saying whether Taylor was armed or not but they did say he was wanted on a probation violation in connection with a felony robbery — information some say is an attack on his character."

Uh oh... he might've been armed. And committed a felony robbery and violated probation. Yelp. But yeah, it's ok for Fox to try to go in on Mike every which way and we know for a FACT he wasn't armed.

"“I don’t think he deserved to die by a police officer. So often times the media likes to bring up the character of the individual involved and what that does it persuades a lot of backwards people that these were actually criminals deserving of what they got,” said Chris Manor, a protestor."

You don't say. Does that rule work for everyone or just us white folk?

"Taylor’s aunt said he was like a son to her and while he may have had a rough life, losing his parents six years ago, the soon-to-be dad didn’t deserve to die."

Uh oh. He led a rough life. You know what that means...

"Justice means they learn how to control their firearms. If the tables were turned and Dillon would have jumped the gun or hurt one of them, he’d be sitting behind bars, he would have to pay the consequence. These guys have to be responsible for their actions as well,” Thayne said."

Not if you hear the justifications many are trying to spew about Wilson killing Mike Brown. Sorry dude... cops shoot to kill apparently and since you 'might' have been armed, were on probation, had a rough upbringing, etc...you deserved it.

See how shithouse that sounds when the tables are turned?

http://fox13now.com/2014/08/25/dozen...olice-officer/

OK, you win, white cop guilty, black man died innoncet man.

No need for jury trial.

Case closed

[shari91]

Can we wait until all the evidnece is in before we rush to judgement.
And when all the evidence is in, and if Wilson is found justified, it still won't be good enough.
I'll still be a cracker, even if I never cracked a whip, even if I come from slave heritage, I'm still a racist.

But why wait to judge? People are judging a dead black kid without him ever having the chance to say a word in his defense. And this is a thread where we're asked to consider the similarities between him and Dillon - a guy who violated probation for a felony robbery and may have been armed. Those are facts... the stuff people are throwing at Mike Brown according to the shooter's account and his "friend" aren't as of yet and still we see them repeated over and over as gospel, including in this very thread. If I see that eye socket thing one more time... seriously.

It goes both ways and in fact this is a pretty crappy example to use as evidence of a double standard. Everyone regardless of colour should be safe from over-zealous cops. If it turns out the person who shot and killed Dillon and also Wilson were cases of this, then I hope they both fry.

[shari91]

Yeah, no wonder he didn't want his name mentioned, but I am sure plenty of people who know him have already recognized his voice.

The amazing thing was how he completely ignored the fact that gunfire was going on in the background like it was normal.

His lawyer said he had headphones on and didn't hear what was going on. Even if he had heard them he might not have reacted as other people who were inside their apartments were convinced it was fireworks at first until they clocked the time of day and realised no one would be setting off fireworks in the early afternoon. That's when they started to rush out and film. (This is all stuff going back to tv interviews the day of the shooting - not stuff they said today.)

[stevenash]

^
And my point is, and still remains is, can we wait until all the evidence is in before we rush to judgement.
Seems to me we can not.

[stevenash]

I'm done here.
Wilson guilty, Brown innocent.

I'm wrong, everyone without all the evidence must be right.

[muldoon]

here ya go,

forward this

Children of Congress members do not have to pay back their college student loans.
Staffers of Congress family members are also exempt from having to payback student loans.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jan/11/chain-email/do-members-congress-have-pay-back-student-loans-ye/

[shari91]

^
And my point is, and still remains is, can we wait until all the evidence is in before we rush to judgement.
Seems to me we can not.

I think you're a bit confused. Unless Dillon did something to endanger the cop's life and was a LEGITIMATE immediate threat to the cop's or general public's safety, I do not give a rat's ass what his past was. It has no bearing on what happened the night he was shot. Same goes for Mike Brown and yet he's been torn from here to eternity with people trying to come up with every excuse under the sun as to why he deserved to have at least 10 bullets shot at him, 6 of them connecting, even when he was 30+ feet away. It should work both ways, no? Seems from the posts on here many are happy just to run with rhetoric and debunked bullshit when it comes to the black kid but yes, let's take a step back and wait when it comes to the white one. Yeah, no problem with race at all.

[MoMoneyMoVaughn]

Yeah, no wonder he didn't want his name mentioned, but I am sure plenty of people who know him have already recognized his voice.

The amazing thing was how he completely ignored the fact that gunfire was going on in the background like it was normal.

How do we find this wierdo and get him behind bars??!!

This guy is the 10x the threat to society that Michael Brown or Darren Wilson would ever have been.

[KingJD31]

Damning evidence they have theb on video robbing a store right before, should i put a light bulb to make my point seem valid? douche

[MoMoneyMoVaughn]

Damning evidence they have theb silverback on video robbing a store right before, should i put a light bulb to make my point seem valid? Fukkin douche

Using that term really doesn't add weight to your agruement.

I would assert that it does the opposite.

[KingJD31]

kids a thug legit who cares?

Using the term silverback really doesn't add weight to your agruement.

I would assert that it does the opposite.

[Kermit]

How do we find this wierdo and get him behind bars??!!

This guy is the 10x the threat to society that Michael Brown or Darren Wilson would ever have been.

WTF are you talking about? I was replying back to Shari about the audio that was in the video that I posted up above.

[MoMoneyMoVaughn]

WTF are you talking about? I was replying back to Shari about the audio that was in the video that I posted up above.

I was just kidding.

It was a joke about sexual deviency. It wasn't very good.

I have learned my lesson.

[MoMoneyMoVaughn]

kids a fuckin thug legit who cares?

Anyone who thinks he is a thug for having stolen cigars and pushing a store clerk has likely lived a fairly sheltered existence.

Real thugs are much more destructive. Smoking blunts and robbing convienence stores is something I suspect a whole lot of SBR posters have done at some point in their lives.

[R.P. McMurphy]

Whether Brown was armed or not is missing the point. Does not matter if he was armed or how many times he was shot. I'm no fan of cops and acknowledge they have the right to defend themselves and even use deadly force when necessary if they feel a dangerous enough threat. Obviously none of us know all the facts yet but one thing we do know is this kid was NOT shot in the back as originally reported by gutless liars saying they witnessed it. And Brown is not the sweet charming big teddy bear who was harmless as was the impression his family sure gave from jump st. Honestly I can't say for sure what happened and so many stories get screwed around with this mess it's hard to follow but I lean more toward the cops story. Just too bad the irresponsible citizens of Ferguson (looters not so much protestors) and our media did not show the slightest bit of restraint before calling for this guys head lynch mob style outta the gate!

[shari91]

Whether Brown was armed or not is missing the point. Does not matter if he was armed or how many times he was shot. I'm no fan of cops and acknowledge they have the right to defend themselves and even use deadly force when necessary if they feel a dangerous enough threat. Obviously none of us know all the facts yet but one thing we do know is this kid was NOT shot in the back as originally reported by gutless liars saying they witnessed it. And Brown is not the sweet charming big teddy bear who was harmless as was the impression his family sure gave from jump st. Honestly I can't say for sure what happened and so many stories get screwed around with this mess it's hard to follow but I lean more toward the cops story. Just too bad the irresponsible citizens of Ferguson (looters not so much protestors) and our media did not show the slightest bit of restraint before calling for this guys head lynch mob style outta the gate!

The eyewitnesses said he was shot AT in the back which would explain the bullets the cops had to retrieve from the apartment building. As for the looters - every single one of them that was arrested were from outside of Ferguson. Some from 6-7 states over. There are also videos and pics of the white guys who went in there from some Revolutionary Conservatives something or other group - also from out of state - to try to agitate police and get them to react. Luckily several of them were arrested also. As for Brown's character - how do you know what it is? How many people do you know shoplifted in high school or smoked weed? The store owner didn't even call the cops on him and has repeatedly said he didn't want that video to come out... without any audio we have no clue what really happened and because it's not relevant to the case, unless the store owner finally decides to do an interview some day we never will. As it pertains to this thread though, the person in question in the OP was convicted of a felony robbery, broke probation and may have been armed. Now who's the thug?

[R.P. McMurphy]

Stories out their for days we just don't hear enough about them cause the "victim" was not the right color. Anyone remember the white truck driver who was nearly beaten to death and put in a coma by an angry black mob several months ago in Detroit? Yeah probably not or vaguely! That's the point tho our media and gov seem to have an agenda and do whatever fits their mold. If shoes were flipped and that was a black man attacked by an angry white mob it would have been a hate crime (joke of a term btw) been all over the news for a solid week and so on. But he was white so ehh fukk him

[R.P. McMurphy]

Every looter arrested from Ferguson Shari? Come on seriously I realize there were outsiders coming in but some of those guys had to be from the area. Let's not be so naive to think all the citizens from the area are perfectly classy , harmless victims in this. I've been to Stl several times and it is one fukked up dump of a city with major crime issues.

[R.P. McMurphy]

And Shari there is a huge difference between being a typical punk kid sneaking a pack of gum in your pocket or whatever is considered "typical" dumb kid stuff. And a strong armed robbery which is what he did and that was true punk/thug behavior I saw on the vid! In my estimation "punk" move would have been realizing he was busted and just fled out the door. But he didn't do that in true "thug" fashion he approached it like I'm big bad Mike Brown and if this dude steps to me I will toss him aside and stride out the door calmly. Not sure what happened exactly at the shooting site but it does not take a genius to figure out if he approached that piggie with "big bad Brown" thug mentality and went after him physically it would not end well!

[itchypickle]

Great example for wearing body cams on police....this recent case had two angles and could have gone either way without the body POV to help the officer. should be noted to, seemingly innocent situation turns pretty fast with an unarmed man....imagine doing this hundreds of times as a cop and being judged a lifetime in a single instance. Tough gig. Lucky for this officer it was a small dude and not someone with a height/weight physical advantage.

[shari91]

Stories out their for days we just don't hear enough about them cause the "victim" was not the right color. Anyone remember the white truck driver who was nearly beaten to death and put in a coma by an angry black mob several months ago in Detroit? Yeah probably not or vaguely! That's the point tho our media and gov seem to have an agenda and do whatever fits their mold. If shoes were flipped and that was a black man attacked by an angry white mob it would have been a hate crime (joke of a term btw) been all over the news for a solid week and so on. But he was white so ehh fukk him

The majority of televised media in the US has been reporting heavily in favour of Wilson, including CNN (which was a big eye opener to me). All outlets were reporting on the protests because they had to once politicians and journalists were being arrested and tear gassed. The story had spread across the world so even if they'd wanted to move on to something else, they had no choice. But they sure did a great job of trying to slant things. The only reason this case blew up like it did is because Ferguson has been a hotbed of racial problems for 100+ years and this was the straw that finally broke the camel's back. Until this happened I'd never heard the case of the black guy who was not only beaten by Ferguson PD but was then sued by them because they wanted reimbursement for their uniforms after he bled on them... again after they beat him! Or how they hog-tied a 12 year old black kid who was checking the mail at his house and the kid's family filed a lawsuit because he ended up with choke marks, cuts, bruises, etc around his neck. Or the story they did in Sports Illustrated the other day where the NFL guy who grew up there was saying that although he's "made it" now, he, his girlfriend and friends still gets harassed every time he goes home.

As for Dillon, it keeps popping up in my timeline that he was half Hispanic and the cop was Hispanic. It seems people took "not white" to equal the cop must be black. That's a whole other story as to why people would jump to that conclusion but again as you're the OP in here, in response to the premise of this thread I don't think this was a good example considering that even Fox had to concede elements of Dillon's history. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[bigtymer56]

Mr. McMurphy...

That original shooting you brought up has got just about as much attention as this one...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/26/video-shows-police-shot-ohio-man-on-sight-as-he-leaned-on-toy-gun-in-walmart-attorney-says/

[muldoon]

the man shot assaulted a cop

Can we wait until all the evidnece is in before we rush to judgement.

I don't know...can WE?

[R.P. McMurphy]

Crazy stories indeed! Like I've stated several times and in another Ferguson thread I'm no fan of cops and fully realize the ignorant/bully mentality alot of them have and it's getting worse. They may on occasion do hero deeds but in large part they are not heroes in my book. Just hired thugs themselves payed to hijack or bully American citizens with their b.s. stops and petty light work more than to "protect and serve". With that said tho if one does pull you over or get in your face it's not a good idea to go at one physically! If that is what Mr Brown did then I have no sympathy for him. If he is truly innocent and posed NO threat physically and murdered in cold blood. Then have fun in prison piggie enjoy the daily rapes and beatings

[stevenash]

There has been two similar incidents like this in a 12 day span.

There's the 'choke-hold' incident on Staten Island NY where a white cop 'strangled' a black man to death during an arrest over the sale of loose cigarettes.

In this case, there was, in my opinion, no reason for the excessive force.
After seeing the footage, the attitude of the cops, etc. etc. etc. I want to see the white cop brought to justice.
That cowboy, those cowboys deserve everything they get coming to them, that was terrible, that cop deserves serious jail time for manslaughter. The man said I can't breathe, and nobody paid no mind.

I want the family of the man choked to death be compensated for life over the loss of life.
Still doesn't bring back a dead man, but the death was unjustified. Handcuffs, put in the squad car, pay your fine, promise to appear was all that situation warranted, not choke hold, wrestle do the pavement, choke the man to death.

The case in Missouri, there are accounts, from different people, that a defiant Brown smacked a white cop Wilson in the head and lunged for his gun.

Now there are groups that want the photo's released, my attorney friend says the photo's can't be released due to pending legal things.

I'm not rushing to judgement here, but after hearing a star witness recant, after learning a star witness is a proven court liar, etc etc, this is probably not a case of a racist white cop shooting an innocent black man to death for no reason.

Staten Island case, sure looks like white cops were beyond over zealous.
Missouri case, cop may or my not had a reason to shoot, but sure looks like white cop was at the very least more than provoked.

[itchypickle]