playersonly69 chip dumping hand

**PickWinnerAllDay** · 05-10-12, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by MoneyLineDawg

They don't have to be, but IN THIS CASE we are talking about playersonly, a veteran poker player who flat out admits he makes the move to screw over someone else

If screwing someone else over gives you a better chance to win in your mind, I think it should be allowed. For instance, if me, Phil Ivey, and Daniel negranu(sp) are all at a final table, either one would be smart to screw over the other even if it helps me.

**milwaukee mike** · 05-10-12, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by MoneyLineDawg

BTW.....Try this move in a casino and I can guarantee you it won't be pretty with any competent poker floor......

you seem to be able to guarantee a lot of things. that no poker player with a clue would fold rags to a 5-1 pot rather than having to show them (and potentially losing the ability to bluff). that "competent" poker floors would for some reason punish a guy for doing nothing wrong (even though shari's video showed that if he had rags then no problem). that pokerstars would punish someone even though their rules don't say anything about it.

well here's a little side bet since you're so confident, i bet you 200 points that you can't find A SINGLE POKER ROOM MANAGER that would punish po for what he did if he had rags.

**MoneyLineDawg** · 05-10-12, 02:43 PM

Just what I was bitching about above.....People keep coming up with these crazy scenerios to justify po69's scumbag actions

Just argue about THIS SPECIFIC CASE.........You hate ttwarrior anyway so I wouldn't expect you to side with him ever, so whatever

**ttwarrior1** · 05-10-12, 02:44 PM

im lost, wtf is everyone talking about now, why is shari talking about me?

**milwaukee mike** · 05-10-12, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by MoneyLineDawg

Just what I was bitching about above.....People keep coming up with these crazy scenerios to justify po69's scumbag actions

Just argue about THIS SPECIFIC CASE.........You hate ttwarrior anyway so I wouldn't expect you to side with him ever, so whatever

probably just as many people here hate playersonly so neither one is getting any sympathy votes

**MoneyLineDawg** · 05-10-12, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by milwaukee mike

you seem to be able to guarantee a lot of things. that no poker player with a clue would fold rags to a 5-1 pot rather than having to show them (and potentially losing the ability to bluff). that "competent" poker floors would for some reason punish a guy for doing nothing wrong (even though shari's video showed that if he had rags then no problem). that pokerstars would punish someone even though their rules don't say anything about it.

well here's a little side bet since you're so confident, i bet you 200 points that you can't find A SINGLE POKER ROOM MANAGER that would punish po for what he did if he had rags.

You have to include the fact that he says, "I folded here just to screw over player X"

If he kept quiet, nothing happens

Hey Mike, if this same thing happened to you and 11th place gets nothing, but 10th place wins $5000 and players only folds his hand and says I don't want to see Mike win money.....Would you just take the loss and agree with it?

**The Giant** · 05-10-12, 02:46 PM

One guy says he doesn't want TT to make the final table.

A couple of hands later he raises, and folds to a reraise while getting exorbitant odds.

The only way you can argue that isn't collusion, is if you don't have common sense and/or basic math skills.

**hawley** · 05-10-12, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by The Giant

One guy says he doesn't want TT to make the final table.

A couple of hands later he raises, and folds to a reraise while getting exorbitant odds.

The only way you can argue that isn't collusion, is if you don't have common sense and/or basic math skills.

Look up the definition of collusion.

**MoneyLineDawg** · 05-10-12, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by The Giant

One guy says he doesn't want TT to make the final table.

A couple of hands later he raises, and folds to a reraise while getting exorbitant odds.

The only way you can argue that isn't collusion, is if you don't have common sense and/or basic math skills.

BUT anyone can do whatever they want with their chips!!!

**milwaukee mike** · 05-10-12, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by MoneyLineDawg

You have to include the fact that he says, "I folded here just to screw over player X"

If he kept quiet, nothing happens

Hey Mike, if this same thing happened to you and 11th place gets nothing, but 10th place wins $5000 and players only folds his hand and says I don't want to see Mike win money.....Would you just take the loss and agree with it?

of course when you put me in that situation i wouldn't like it. but i also don't like it when someone hits a 2 outer on the river after calling with complete garbage.

not sure how i would react, but i would understand if they weren't in cahoots that nothing was against the rules. more likely that i take matters into my own hands with a baseball bat to his car in the parking lot than whine to the casino manager.

interesting scenario and it's probably pretty unlikely that a comment like that would be made in a live game.

**shari91** · 05-10-12, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by ttwarrior1

im lost, wtf is everyone talking about now, why is shari talking about me?

i swear to f i don't know why i ever go to bat for you

seriously pal, you need to tighten up

**ttwarrior1** · 05-10-12, 02:53 PM

ok read the posts , took awhile, paul says po69 should be punished

shari's voice

i just saw the vid pic shari and it had big daddy and me on it. I was like wtf

**ttwarrior1** · 05-10-12, 02:55 PM

me making the final table is irrevelant, the pt difference between 11th and 10th is what? 20 pts or something

Its obvious some are backing up po69 because he gives them pts to play and some are backing up me because they don't
like po69

I called my local casino also and they said they would of banned him from the casino

**milwaukee mike** · 05-10-12, 02:55 PM

paul didn't say that

he said if it was caught in time they would check the cards and if po69 had rags then all is well

**milwaukee mike** · 05-10-12, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by ttwarrior1

me making the final table is irrevelant, the pt difference between 11th and 10th is what? 20 pts or something

Its obvious some are backing up po69 because he gives them pts to play and some are backing up me because they don't
like po69

I called my local casino also and they said they would of banned him from the casino

that is complete and total bullshit, nobody would've banned him for this. tell me the name of the poker room manager and casino and i'll call them right now.

**The Giant** · 05-10-12, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by hawley

Look up the definition of collusion.

Collusion is a form of cheating.

What if he folded to a reraise and only needed to put in 100 chips to win 6000? Would that be collusion? At what point do you determine it?

It was an automatic call, no matter what he had. He only folded for one reason...cheating.

**shari91** · 05-10-12, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by milwaukee mike

of course when you put me in that situation i wouldn't like it. but i also don't like it when someone hits a 2 outer on the river after calling with complete garbage.

not sure how i would react, but i would understand if they weren't in cahoots that nothing was against the rules. more likely that i take matters into my own hands with a baseball bat to his car in the parking lot than whine to the casino manager.

interesting scenario and it's probably pretty unlikely that a comment like that would be made in a live game.

Well at least for Crown we know if you asked the Supervisor to check (even though your head would get smashed after) if one of them had a winning hand, you might catch a break. If they had rags and were trying to bluff - you'd get your arse licked and no chips. But yeah, great!

There's nothing that can be done after the fact. Just like there's nothing that can be done when guys get googly eyed because Shari the Mod is at their table. You can't rewind results. There aren't people watching play on every table to see every hand go down.

If he had a great hand, then he's a dick. If he had a shitty hand though - which is what I'm banking on knowing this guy from high ring play - all of you complainers maybe should drop out of the tourney altogether for accusing him of this?

**MoneyLineDawg** · 05-10-12, 02:58 PM

All I'm saying is that by po69 admitting that he is folding ONLY BECAUSE he doesn't wanna see ttwarrior advance (the next big blind and short stack) he is essentially chip dumping to the other short stack, whether in cahoots or not.....This screws over other players as well.

I get guys can play however they want, but that's not entirely true considering there are chip dumping and collusion rules......and this is a form of chip dumping when he admits that he folded for reasons other than skill or strategy

**ttwarrior1** · 05-10-12, 02:58 PM

Hmm thats not what i heard, i heard he would need to be punished, did i miss something. Also that is one guys opinion. The opinions of other sbr members and people on other forums all say something needs to be done, exept for milwaukee mike of course because he gets points from yisman and he is buds with po69

**hawley** · 05-10-12, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by The Giant

Collusion is a form of cheating.

What if he folded to a reraise and only needed to put in 100 chips to win 6000? Would that be collusion? At what point do you determine it?

It was an automatic call, no matter what he had. He only folded for one reason...cheating.

What I mean is collusion requires two parties to be in on it.

Was the other person involved or just a beneficiary of what happened?

**milwaukee mike** · 05-10-12, 02:58 PM

giant, you still didn't look up the definition did you?
i'll post it again, read it slowly this time

col·lu·sion

(k-lzhn)n.A secret agreement between two or more parties for a fraudulent, illegal, or deceitful purpose

**ttwarrior1** · 05-10-12, 02:59 PM

exactly

Originally posted by MoneyLineDawg

All I'm saying is that by po69 admitting that he is folding ONLY BECAUSE he doesn't wanna see ttwarrior advance (the next big blind and short stack) he is essentially chip dumping to the other short stack, whether in cahoots or not.....This screws over other players as well.

I get guys can play however they want, but that's not entirely true considering there are chip dumping and collusion rules......and this is a form of chip dumping when he admits that he folded for reasons other than skill or strategy

**The Giant** · 05-10-12, 02:59 PM

And just for the record, I don't believe that TT called a casino, or posted on five other message boards, which he claimed.

I'm not sure why he always goes to such extremes.

**ttwarrior1** · 05-10-12, 03:00 PM

why does hawley act like he is working for sbr and investigating. i assume this is not true, but if he is, go for it

**The Giant** · 05-10-12, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by hawley

What I mean is collusion requires two parties to be in on it.

Was the other person involved or just a beneficiary of what happened?

We have no idea if the other person was involved, so we can't rule out collusion.

We just have to look at the circumstantial evidence.

And the circumstantial evidence points to guilt. GUILT, I SAY!

**ttwarrior1** · 05-10-12, 03:01 PM

giant? i give you links to my threads and you give me points???
Im a member of almost 100 poker pts and have over 50 sites downloaded on my comp. I play literally , not always, but sometimes up to 16 hours a day and post about 1k posts on various forums all day

Originally posted by The Giant

And just for the record, I don't believe that TT called a casino, or posted on five other message boards, which he claimed.

I'm not sure why he always goes to such extremes.

**shari91** · 05-10-12, 03:01 PM

tt, Paul deals with people playing for more cash than you and I will ever know. He's a Mahogany guy. So much money in those rooms. Pre kid I played in there - that's the only reason why they still talk to me.

No one is getting banned from the Casino for that. Come on now. Redistribution of chips or maybe worst case scenario kicked from the tourney with a warning. Seriously, casinos make cash from degens. They're not ditching someone for that.

**ttwarrior1** · 05-10-12, 03:02 PM

Giants id give u 2 k pts for that post if i had it. Guilty

Originally posted by The Giant

We have no idea if the other person was involved, so we can't rule out collusion.

We just have to look at the circumstantial evidence.

And the circumstantial evidence points to guilt. GUILT, I SAY!

**hawley** · 05-10-12, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by ttwarrior1

why does hawley act like he is working for sbr and investigating. i assume this is not true, but if he is, go for it

Originally posted by SBR_John

Hawley, how do we find out what the hole cards for PO and mih?

Carry on with the investigation. My initial conclusion is to agree with Milwaukee Mike. Assuming mih was not in on it, and there is no allegations he is, then I see the play as a poorly played hand and nothing more. It could be PO was trying to buy the pot and thought the short stacked player would fold and did not want to commit an additional 1100 points to the pot. IF PO indeed had a strong hand then SBR could and probably should issue him a warning to play the game as a gentleman or risk having his privileges suspended. If PO had something less than a strong hand it seems to me this is a non event, pending your review.

**shari91** · 05-10-12, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by MoneyLineDawg

All I'm saying is that by po69 admitting that he is folding ONLY BECAUSE he doesn't wanna see ttwarrior advance (the next big blind and short stack) he is essentially chip dumping to the other short stack, whether in cahoots or not.....This screws over other players as well.

I get guys can play however they want, but that's not entirely true considering there are chip dumping and collusion rules......and this is a form of chip dumping when he admits that he folded for reasons other than skill or strategy

Yes, just like I said I only f'd my ex because I knew it'd make another guy pissed off.

These 2 have been fighting like little meerkats. There is no collusion - and that's not saying I'd put it past either of them because who knows. But not this time. It's just two divas and one found the trigger to set the other one off. Susan Boyle vs Celine Dion some might say.

**MoneyLineDawg** · 05-10-12, 03:04 PM

Why do the hole cards matter when the OBVIOUS play there is a call with ANy 2 cards if there is no other side agenda........Po69 is a solid poker player and every other decent poker player knows this

**ttwarrior1** · 05-10-12, 03:05 PM

Our casino is a little different. When i said banned , i meant they would of banned him for the rest of the nite. They would of even eliminated him from the tourney and take his chips and not give them out. Everyone else would play with what they have in front of them.
It's usually what the pit boss wants and not the casino. I could of got a different answer from 2 or 3 diff people.

ps: po69 saying he wanted me out next wasn't even a guarantee. He played crap cards the next hand and had to get lucky to get me out there

**ttwarrior1** · 05-10-12, 03:08 PM

Ok ive said what ive had to say, I'll let sbr decide. Biteme,Moneyline,Giant, etc all agree something needs to be done.
I have nothing else to add , the facts are there.

Good day

**The Giant** · 05-10-12, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by ttwarrior1

giant? i give you links to my threads and you give me points???
Im a member of almost 100 poker pts and have over 50 sites downloaded on my comp. I play literally , not always, but sometimes up to 16 hours a day and post about 1k posts on various forums all day

I don't know what any of this means, but it would be nice if you posted the phone call like Shari did.

**BernardMadoff** · 05-10-12, 03:17 PM

What's the fuss about, he can fold whenever he wants and where's the collusion.