General poker discussion thread

[Optional]

LOL... typed that about 1 minute before pushing allin and losing.

[yisman]

forced all in by a Q9 raise when I had A6.

Q on flop, finished 11th.

If there were a prize for most bubbles during the World Cup qualifying period, I'm pretty sure I'd be the prohibitive favorite.

Three 11ths and a 10th so far.

[CasperSky]

Tried to make a stupid bluff by all in being last 3 in hand with 45 and unfortunately I was called.

Finished on 15th place, too bad as I had good position in the first 8 players.

Too bad when the brain stops thinking...

[beerman2619]

went all in with king jack today only had like 1000 chips. Got called guy had king deuce of course i knew what was coming. Running bad lately and just get that feeling. First card out is a deuce 7 6 turn is a 9 river is a 3. Just in one of those bad streaks even if i get pocket aces probably lose to deuce 7 offsuit. so i placed 12th today been doing that for all of this week right in that 12 to 15 range.

[beerman2619]

First place today i got very lucky though

[secretstash]

First place today i got very lucky though

bj bud

-stash

[yisman]

bad break for empiremaker tonight. He all-ined with 99. I called with 88. 8 on turn gave me the winning hand.

[EmpireMaker]

got a little frustrated tonight been getting bad beat here a lot good game yis
was for the best I went on to win a 5k tonight

[EmpireMaker]

gets a little distracting bouncing between sites

[yisman]

didn't help me much because I finished 14th anyway.

[yisman]

Bubbled in 8 AM. KQ suited, called an allin by jose, who had 44.

Flop Q, turn 4, river 4.

Then downsouth and jose are talking about how it's a "hero call".

I figured the guy was overplaying hands due to the bubble situation, and I was right. I think it was mathematically the correct call.

Next hand had KQ again, and lost to AK. No regrets.

[EmpireMaker]

it was a flip

[yisman]

yep, basically.

Only hands I had to be worried about were AA, KK, QQ, and AK, and I was confident he didn't have any of those.

I was late position, he was early.

[yisman]

Playing cash games at Bovada to try and earn a bonus (need to get 50 poker points). Down about $15 so far. Rarely win a hand.

Dealt my first elite hand there just now, KK, all-in preflop with 7 bucks and change... against AA.

[downsouth]

Q

Bubbled in 8 AM. KQ suited, called an allin by jose, who had 44.

Flop Q, turn 4, river 4.

Then downsouth and jose are talking about how it's a "hero call".

I figured the guy was overplaying hands due to the bubble situation, and I was right. I think it was mathematically the correct call.

Next hand had KQ again, and lost to AK. No regrets.

Missed this yesterday but it was a "hero call".

You left out the part where he open faced shoved from early position with the 4 4 on the bubble. And you called off 75% of your stack with KQ and two people to act behind you. PRobably a slightly aggressive shove from him because I think he still had approx 8 BB left but your call (didnt even shove to ISO just called) was pretty redonkulous in my opinion.

Again, My question would be what hand are you possibly ahead in that scenario, your best case scenrio is being on the idiot end of a coin flip. There are also a lot of scenarios where your crushed. His play from that position is the same with 44 or AA. Only you or someone similar is going to min raise or something when you have 7-10 big blinds.

You also said you think mathmatically it was the right call....How in the heck did you add that up. NOt getting odds to call, not in blind, nobody else in pot, you were getting slightly over 1 to 1 call. So mathmatically it was also a terrible call.

I could even understand it slightly more if you were short but you were not.

And dont leave out the part where a few hands later and you still had almost 3k in chips or so and someone else early shoved and you again called with KQ and they had you crushed with AK.

Instead of getting upset or stubbornly defending yourself like you did at table try learning something in these instances from people that have probably played a lot more serious poker than you. Just an opinion.

Good Luck

[yisman]

And dont leave out the part where a few hands later and you still had almost 3k in chips or so and someone else early shoved and you again called with KQ and they had you crushed with AK.

No, I had about 1K in chips. Only a fool would've folded there, because the blinds were coming. So it was call with KQ or get blinded out. With the second one, there's no possible debate. You're flat out wrong.

Instead of getting upset or stubbornly defending yourself like you did at table try learning something in these instances from people that have probably played a lot more serious poker than you. Just an opinion.

How about realizing that his shove was pretty bad to begin with, and not bashing a call where I read it right and actually had the better end of it? (KQ suited beats 44 roughly 56% of the time)

But oh, since YOU wouldn't have called, I'm wrong and you need to bash me.

The guy went all in with 44 in early position. Plenty of hands have him crushed.

I had it read correctly, my hand wins slightly over 55% of the time there, and I'm fine with that. I had to leave for work within five minutes (can only play 4 AM or 8 AM on Friday, as posted several times in the past), so if dealt KQ suited and I read the guy as not having an elite hand, of course I'm going to call.

[downsouth]

No, I had about 1K in chips. Only a fool would've folded there, because the blinds were coming. So it was call with KQ or get blinded out. With the second one, there's no possible debate. You're flat out wrong.

How about realizing that his shove was pretty bad to begin with, and not bashing a call where I read it right and actually had the better end of it? (KQ suited beats 44 roughly 56% of the time)

But oh, since YOU wouldn't have called, I'm wrong and you need to bash me.

The guy went all in with 44 in early position. Plenty of hands have him crushed.

I had it read correctly, my hand wins slightly over 55% of the time there, and I'm fine with that. I had to leave for work within five minutes (can only play 4 AM or 8 AM on Friday, as posted several times in the past), so if dealt KQ suited and I read the guy as not having an elite hand, of course I'm going to call.

Who told you that KQ is a 56% fave over 44 heads up. Its actually really close (within 1% of 50-50, they have a half percent or so of chop between them)

And as far as bashing you, actually only thing I said at table initially was hero call, which it was. You then took to the defensive on why it was right call(which it still isnt).

Also, please tell me how you read the guy as not having a hand. He had played fairly tight, and his only move at that point was all in. He had enough chips to fold or shove, where did the reading come in.

No point in sitting here going back and forth. Just keep playing like you do and always wondering why. You'll do fine as long as you stick to SBR and freerolls. Just make sure you stay stubborn enough to never learn.

[yisman]

Who told you that KQ is a 56% fave over 44 heads up. Its actually really close (within 1% of 50-50, they have a half percent or so of chop between them)

And as far as bashing you, actually only thing I said at table initially was hero call, which it was. You then took to the defensive on why it was right call(which it still isnt).

I took the defensive because it was a defensible call. What was less defensible was the all in 44 shove with early position, given how many hands had it crushed.

Also, please tell me how you read the guy as not having a hand. He had played fairly tight, and his only move at that point was all in. He had enough chips to fold or shove, where did the reading come in.

I read, and I read correctly. Evidently you can't accept that.

No point in sitting here going back and forth. Just keep playing like you do and always wondering why. You'll do fine as long as you stick to SBR and freerolls. Just make sure you stay stubborn enough to never learn.

Just make sure you keep being obnoxious. Everyone loves that.

I like how you obviously were not paying attention (or outright lying. I didn't have close to 3K chips), but choose to attack me anyway.

Of course I'm sticking to SBR and freerolls. I've never claimed to be a great poker player, or even a good one. But yeah, I will defend myself when attacked.

[Optional]

Just out of interest... and hopefully bring this discussion back to a civil level, how good are small pairs really? And when is a good time to play them?

I can't think of a time I've ever pushed pre-flop with a small pair (unless about to be blinded out in a tourney), and if I flopped trips I would be mostly only be pushing there in hope of shutting the hand down there than wanting a call.

I've been folding them on just about any raise over minimum pre-flop. (with no idea about hand percentages)

I don't know if it's right or wrong, but in tourneys I try to avoid 'reading' people and only play the current hand as much as possible until the final 9. Even to the point of avoiding watching hands I'm not in. Was caught out too many times calling a short stack push, or a loose player, without a great hand myself.

I'm probably a bit conservative to win too much still, but it seems to be working for me. I'm definitely much better than I was 6 months ago when I first played. I'm kinda wary about reading too much and getting stuck in the same mindset as everyone else about how people 'should' play. It's amazing how regularly someone tells me I am a donkey or newbie for playing the wrong way, and I don't think I know better or anything, but not knowing whatever they think they know seems to be seeing me winning more than I lose at least, so far.

[daneblazer]

No, I had about 1K in chips. Only a fool would've folded there, because the blinds were coming. So it was call with KQ or get blinded out. With the second one, there's no possible debate. You're flat out wrong.

How about realizing that his shove was pretty bad to begin with, and not bashing a call where I read it right and actually had the better end of it? (KQ suited beats 44 roughly 56% of the time)

But oh, since YOU wouldn't have called, I'm wrong and you need to bash me.

The guy went all in with 44 in early position. Plenty of hands have him crushed.

I had it read correctly, my hand wins slightly over 55% of the time there, and I'm fine with that. I had to leave for work within five minutes (can only play 4 AM or 8 AM on Friday, as posted several times in the past), so if dealt KQ suited and I read the guy as not having an elite hand, of course I'm going to call.

You're missing the point. You put guys on a range, not a hand. 44 is likely the bottom of his range here. From an ICM standpoint, folding is probably the wisest move. Plenty of hands have him crushed, but what you don't look at is he has fold equity in the hand and you don't making his shove with 44 more profitable than your call with KQ is. With his shove he has a chance to win the blind and when someone calls, they don't. At best you're looking at a coin flip. If you want to call there, fine, it's not really the worst thing in the world and defensible if you're about to be blinded out, but don't complain when you see a coin flip or you're crushed. What do you expect him to shove with there? K9? KT? If he's shoving with AK or AQ and you call with KQ there are you happier? Even if it's Ax, you're still in trouble. You're seeing tunnel vision instead of the big picture.

[yisman]

You're missing the point. You put guys on a range, not a hand. 44 is likely the bottom of his range here. From an ICM standpoint, folding is probably the wisest move. Plenty of hands have him crushed, but what you don't look at is he has fold equity in the hand and you don't making his shove with 44 more profitable than your call with KQ is. With his shove he has a chance to win the blind and when someone calls, they don't. At best you're looking at a coin flip. If you want to call there, fine, it's not really the worst thing in the world and defensible if you're about to be blinded out, but don't complain when you see a coin flip or you're crushed. What do you expect him to shove with there? K9? KT? If he's shoving with AK or AQ and you call with KQ there are you happier? Even if it's Ax, you're still in trouble. You're seeing tunnel vision instead of the big picture.

I didn't complain about the hand. I know it's roughly a coin flip.

I was responding to downsouth.

[RudyRuetigger]

looks like a bad shove and a bad call in my opinion ((table image aside))

[downsouth]

I never said the shove was good or bad. I actually said it was marginal at best.

Only thing I said at table was "hero call", which it was. When I said it Yisman defended it as the "right" call, which is was not.

Now, Yisman in not so many words two players, Rudy and Dane, who are both pretty good at this game have basically said it was a bad call. Stop trying to argue that it was "mathmatically correct" or whatever other spin your trying to make on. Again, just learn from it. Quit trying to defend it. It was a bad call and you bubbled in tenth because of it, nothing else really too it. As far as the following hand vs the AK, your right I didnt pay attention to how many chips you had, but you saying you had only 1000 makes your previous call worse because you basically called off your whole stack with KQ.

[daneblazer]

Just out of interest... and hopefully bring this discussion back to a civil level, how good are small pairs really? And when is a good time to play them?

It's amazing how regularly someone tells me I am a donkey or newbie for playing the wrong way,

It's cliche, but it depends on the situation. Once the average stacks reach a certain point in the tournament, it's not really worth it to set mine (call) with them, you're usually either shoving, raising as a semi-bluff, or folding.

And don't worry about what the table captains say about you. They're usually the ones who don't have a clue.

[yisman]

DSI freeroll, dealt AA. Guy raises preflop, I re-raise to twice that.

Flop 10,7,2. I bet half pot, guy re-raises. I all-in (over 13k chips total, starting stack 1500, blinds 100/200).

He has K10 off. Another guy was all in with the blind had K2.

Turn is a 10, river is a jack. Bounced in 70th.

$500 freeroll for select players, top 36 get paid. Oh well. Wasted an hour on that.


As for the previous discussion, I acknowledge that I shouldn't have called with KQ now, but as stated, I had to leave for work and didn't want to be blinded out. The final table had already been going on for a bunch of hands at that point

The second call was 100% correct and there was no other way to play it.

I just want to know why an all-in in early position with 44 doesn't get criticized, but a call with KQ does.

[BeerDog99]

I just want to know why an all-in in early position with 44 doesn't get criticized, but a call with KQ does.

The key point (imho) on this is that in real basic terms, the guy pushing gives himself two ways to win the hand. 1) Everybody folds, 2) The hand wins.

When you call, that only gives you one way to win.

The difference between the two is the "fold equity".

Cheers and good luck.

[Optional]

It's cliche, but it depends on the situation. Once the average stacks reach a certain point in the tournament, it's not really worth it to set mine (call) with them, you're usually either shoving, raising as a semi-bluff, or folding.

Thanks Dane. Think I have acted pretty much that way just intuitively. What made me wonder if I am missing something is seeing people going all-in with them so often, especially in cash games.

[RudyRuetigger]

I just want to know why an all-in in early position with 44 doesn't get criticized, but a call with KQ does.

i criticized it


spur of the moment i make alot of dumb moves too..

but i dont think standard moves are necessary at sbrpoker bc you arent exploited for dumb moves as much and therefore might actually be more profitable.

[daneblazer]

I just want to know why an all-in in early position with 44 doesn't get criticized, but a call with KQ does.

I'm not crazy about the shove w/ 44, but take PokerStove and run a loose range of what he's probably shoving with 22+, A8o+, A8s+ KQo, KQs, KJs, KTs vs. KQs and see what you get. You're a bigger dog than you think.

[Optional]

Just sat down at the 1/2 table with 4 others that were having fun and playing pretty loose.

I went 46 deals with only one chance to call, and that was squashed pre flop by a big allin.

Figured the poker gods were telling me to get the hell out after this lot (last first)

Dealt to Optional: [7s, 9c]
Dealt to Optional: [2d, 4h]
Dealt to Optional: [3s, 2d]
Dealt to Optional: [8c, Jd]
Dealt to Optional: [5h, 6d]
Dealt to Optional: [Kh, 7d]
Dealt to Optional: [5h, 7c]
Dealt to Optional: [Th, 5d]
Dealt to Optional: [2c, Jh]
Dealt to Optional: [3s, 8s]
Dealt to Optional: [Tc, 4d]
Dealt to Optional: [Jc, 3c]
Dealt to Optional: [9h, 5d]
Dealt to Optional: [7h, Qc]
Dealt to Optional: [2s, Jh]
Dealt to Optional: [Tc, Kd]
Dealt to Optional: [2c, 3c]
Dealt to Optional: [6h, 2c]
Dealt to Optional: [Tc, 5d]
Dealt to Optional: [Ks, 8d]
Dealt to Optional: [2s, Qd]
Dealt to Optional: [2c, 5c]
Dealt to Optional: [6h, 8s]
Dealt to Optional: [2d, 5h]
Dealt to Optional: [5c, 9h]
Dealt to Optional: [Ad, 5s]
Dealt to Optional: [3c, Ad]
Dealt to Optional: [8s, Td]
Dealt to Optional: [Kc, 3s]
Dealt to Optional: [6d, 3h]
Dealt to Optional: [6c, Jc]
Dealt to Optional: [Kc, Qs]
Dealt to Optional: [Qc, Jh]
Dealt to Optional: [2d, 5d]
Dealt to Optional: [7d, 9d]
Dealt to Optional: [6c, 3d]
Dealt to Optional: [2h, 6d]
Dealt to Optional: [7h, Kc]
Dealt to Optional: [6s, 9c]
Dealt to Optional: [6h, 9c]
Dealt to Optional: [3s, Th]
Dealt to Optional: [5c, Qc]
Dealt to Optional: [Th, 4h]
Dealt to Optional: [Ad, 9c]
Dealt to Optional: [8c, 6d]
Dealt to Optional: [5c, 8s]

[horja1]

standard SBR poker starting hands ...

[yisman]

that's what happened to me in the Bovada hyper tournament I foolishly joined last night. Thought it was +EV, but a bunch of people joined late, and blinds increasing fast and junk hands.

[daneblazer]

Here's one you don't see every day.




***** Hand history (v1.2) ***** Hand ID 1243102 $0 + $22 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 21:37:46 16/01/2012 ET Table 'Table 22004', 10 seats max, Real money Seat 2 is the button. Small Blind $1000, Big Blind $2000 Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10 Seat 1 (playing) : lvherbie, amount $30542, amount bet $0, penalty (None) Seat 2 (playing) : john_morrison, amount $9441, amount bet $0, penalty (None) Seat 3 (playing) : daneblazer, amount $9956, amount bet $0, penalty (None) Seat 9 (playing) : decado, amount $22181, amount bet $0, penalty (None) daneblazer: Small Blind ($1000) decado: Big Blind ($2000) ** Dealing Down Cards ** Dealt to daneblazer: [2c, 5d] lvherbie: Fold john_morrison: Raise ($9341) daneblazer: Fold decado: Call ($7341) john_morrison: Show Cards ($0) decado: Show Cards ($0) ** Dealing Flop ** Community cards: [4c, As, 4s] ** Dealing Turn ** Community cards: [Ad] ** Dealing River ** Community cards: [Ah] ** End Round ** ** Evaluate ** decado: Show Cards ($0) john_morrison: Show Cards ($0) ** Showdown ** Main pot $20082, Rake $0 Summary john_morrison: bet $9341, won $20082, net $10741, HoleCards [Ac, 4h], HiHand [four of a kind, aces] [As, Ah, Ad, Ac, 4s], won $20082 from main pot Summary decado: bet $9341, won $0, net $-9341, HoleCards [6s, 6c] </pre>

[yisman]

ring tables

dealt AA.

Before me, raise, call. I re-raise. All call. Flop is 232 (or 323). I bet a bunch. Two others fold, but bruloc calls again. Turn is 4. I bet most of pot. He again calls. He rivers a 6, beating me with a straight. He had 45 off and was calling re-raises and bets.

Then he starts bragging about having made 50K playing poker.

[COYLO]

got booted twice tonight 2nd time would'nt let me back in at all was doin ok too.