bad beat,need some advice on what to do?

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  • wtt0315
    SBR Hall of Famer
    • 01-18-07
    • 8037

    #1
    bad beat,need some advice on what to do?
    ok so a few weeks ago I was playing at the local dog track. They have a bad beat jackpot where if four twos are beaten by four whatever then you hit the jackpot. bad beat guy guys 50 percent, the winner of bad beat gets 25 percent and the rest of table splits the other 25 percent. So i am dealt A,3. The flop comes 5,3,3. i bet out small and he calls. Next card is a 3. I bet he raises i call. next card is a 5. I bet hes all in i call. He flips over 55 for a hand of 5,5,5,5,8
    i have A,3,3,3,3. the pot was around 500. We all start screaming that we got the bad beat. My share would of been close to 50k. So i am excited as hell as well as rest of table. The pit boss comes over and starts looking at it and to make a long story short says that both of my cards are not in play so its no bad beat. I say no my Ace plays because the 8 was the highest board card so my two cards do play. He says no. We go look at the posted rules on the board at the entrance and the rules say nothing about this. It just says both cards must play. I have seen bad beats in other places where this is acceptable. I was in the managers office forever arguring my point. I told them if this is the case they should post different rules. They told me its just that way and its the way its always been. Well This is 50k and it can't be just the way it is. So anyway here is my problem. The guy who was the winner has been in contact with me and he wants to get a lawyer and try to fight this. I have been fighting with myself for the last couple weeks because i dont know what to do. I hate lawsuits and that crap but i just dont know. Am i wrong here? Do i have a case?
  • secretstash
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 03-29-10
    • 14907

    #2
    karma is a biotch.

    pay ur debts STIFF

    Comment
    • Wackabrew
      SBR Rookie
      • 09-23-10
      • 20

      #3
      If this story is true then you should probably get paid (I'm confused as to where the 8 came from through, as the only way this hand would be possible is if the board was 53335). HOWEVER, many places have rules that both players need to be holding a pocket pair to qualify. This may be what the floor manager is referring to
      Comment
      • PaperTrail07
        SBR Posting Legend
        • 08-29-08
        • 20423

        #4
        Honestly everywhere I play you have to use both HOLE CARDS. However your point of view makes it very interesting. It does play I get what your saying............Its a 5 card Hand....very crazy situation and if it was not my go to casino...IM GOING FOR THE $$$$......if you meet the rules then u deserve the $
        Comment
        • wtt0315
          SBR Hall of Famer
          • 01-18-07
          • 8037

          #5
          yeah sorry about the confusing way. he had 4 of a kind i had four of a kind and my ace was higher then the 5 on the board. all this typing sucks. i have seen it where this counts as my two hold cards and i have seen it where it dont. . I dont think i will persue it but the guy who beat me said he is going pursue it. It wasnt just me that was out a lot as rest of table lost money. I understand the poker rooms side which is why i am not going persue it. I dont want to go through all this mess for nothing. I dont think he will win, but it will be interesting to see if a settlement gets made.
          Comment
          • Nittany Lion
            SBR MVP
            • 09-14-10
            • 1639

            #6
            For $50K you should 100% DEFINITELY fight it, you and the other guy need to get a lawyer together since it's the same case and you can split the lawyer fees. If their rules did not state that you must have a pocket pair in order to get the bad beat jackpot for quads, then you have a good chance of winning. Did you take pictures of the cards/rule board before you left? If not, hopefully the other guy did.

            BTW, where did the 8 come from in your OP that you mentioned? Typo or something I guess.

            If the five cards laying on the table are 5-3-3-3-5

            And you have A-3 and the other guy has 5-5, then your hand is 3-3-3-3-A and his hand is 5-5-5-5-3. I would meet with this other guy and go consult with several lawyers to see what they say and how much they would charge for this. If everything you said was fact/true then you are stupid if you don't lawyer up.
            Comment
            • wtt0315
              SBR Hall of Famer
              • 01-18-07
              • 8037

              #7
              yeah it was a typo.. they have like 8 rules but the only one that applies is both hold cards must play. They tell me that in my hand both cards really don't play.
              yeah i am going talk to him to see what his lawyer is doing. i am just afraid of being out a lot for fees and gettign nothing. funny thing is i have never met the other guy before this happen and now i see him every time i go .
              Comment
              • Kaladarus
                SBR MVP
                • 11-11-09
                • 1876

                #8
                In hold'em the best 5 card hand wins. The best 5 card hand you could have possibly made with your holding is 3333A. Your kicker plays. If the rules don't specify then you are a winner end of story. If there were four 3s on the board and maybe a 2 who would win? A guy with an ace high in there hand or a guy with a king high in there hand? According to your casino it would be a split pot. I know at my local casino they have a specific rule that says the kicker doesn't matter and you must have a pocket pair or two cards to the highest straight flush possible. You need to get a copy of their rules and pursue this. 50k is a lot of money and if you won by there rules then you are entitled to the money.
                Comment
                • Kaladarus
                  SBR MVP
                  • 11-11-09
                  • 1876

                  #9
                  Originally posted by wtt0315
                  yeah it was a typo.. they have like 8 rules but the only one that applies is both hold cards must play. They tell me that in my hand both cards really don't play.
                  yeah i am going talk to him to see what his lawyer is doing. i am just afraid of being out a lot for fees and gettign nothing. funny thing is i have never met the other guy before this happen and now i see him every time i go .
                  Both hole cards play. The best hand you could make uses both the cards you were dealt. They don't know the rules of the game if they can't figure this out.
                  Comment
                  • Nittany Lion
                    SBR MVP
                    • 09-14-10
                    • 1639

                    #10
                    Originally posted by wtt0315
                    yeah it was a typo.. they have like 8 rules but the only one that applies is both hold cards must play. They tell me that in my hand both cards really don't play.
                    Both your cards do play, anybody that knows how to play poker will know this. How did the manager/pit boss say they don't play at your table and not have everybody correct him and say he was wrong?

                    Are you sure you got the story 100% correct, something just doesn't seem right. Maybe you misunderstood him or something, no pit boss is going to tell you your Ace doesn't play when you have quad 3's.
                    Comment
                    • wtt0315
                      SBR Hall of Famer
                      • 01-18-07
                      • 8037

                      #11
                      pretty much its like this. the rules on their board say both hole cards must play and thats all. The manager told me the rules are implied as to saying if one hand is a 4 of a kind both cards must be part of that and the rule has always been that. A lot of the people around the room say yeah its always been that way, but no where do i see that posted in the room. I say you just can't implie a rule. I was there a few days ago and they still have changed the posted rules when you come in. i will take a pic next time i am in. I might do what you guys are saying and get involved. its a lot of money i agree, but it seems everyone i talked to at the poker room say i have no case because everyone knows thats the rule. I kinda just got over it as its been a little while now. i have never been big into lawsuits and such. I talked to the other player a few weeks ago and he told me he had spoken to a laywer and the laywer was going review it to see if there is anything there. i really do appreciate your guys advice though. i was really at lost for what happen. I have been blessed as this would of been my third bad beat in 2 years. I was on the winning side 2 years ago in daytona and then i was on a table payout with one.
                      Comment
                      • Richards
                        SBR Sharp
                        • 10-20-10
                        • 386

                        #12
                        That's a tough one I agree the rules should be pretty explicit in a case like this. Probably pretty hard to fight them in the end even with a lawyer they probably have a catch-all disclaimer "the casino reserves the right to rule on all disputes blah blah blah" you could try to file a complaint to the gaming commission that presides over your jurisdiction.

                        Just an aside, if this hand happened online, I can think of at least SEVERAL SBR users off the top of my head who would be screaming about "action-flops" and rigged hands etc ad naseum.
                        Comment
                        • Nittany Lion
                          SBR MVP
                          • 09-14-10
                          • 1639

                          #13
                          Originally posted by wtt0315
                          pretty much its like this. the rules on their board say both hole cards must play and thats all. The manager told me the rules are implied as to saying if one hand is a 4 of a kind both cards must be part of that and the rule has always been that. A lot of the people around the room say yeah its always been that way, but no where do i see that posted in the room. I say you just can't implie a rule. I was there a few days ago and they still have changed the posted rules when you come in. i will take a pic next time i am in. I might do what you guys are saying and get involved. its a lot of money i agree, but it seems everyone i talked to at the poker room say i have no case because everyone knows thats the rule. I kinda just got over it as its been a little while now. i have never been big into lawsuits and such. I talked to the other player a few weeks ago and he told me he had spoken to a laywer and the laywer was going review it to see if there is anything there. i really do appreciate your guys advice though. i was really at lost for what happen. I have been blessed as this would of been my third bad beat in 2 years. I was on the winning side 2 years ago in daytona and then i was on a table payout with one.
                          What the manager said basically then was that you needed a PP that hit those quads and lost in order to get the bad beat jackpot. It was stupid of him to say your Ace doesn't play, because it does play as we've already pointed out. What he meant to say I guess was your Ace wasn't part of your quads, but that isn't in the rules.

                          If the rules just state both hole cards must play, then you have it won. They should have a rule that states in order to qualify for the bad beat jackpot, you must have a PP that hits quads and you must lose to a better PP that hits quads.

                          This must be a very low quality poker room or something, how could they think that "Both hole cards must play" means both cards you are holding must be part of your quads.
                          Comment
                          • Kaabee
                            SBR MVP
                            • 01-21-06
                            • 2482

                            #14
                            iirc, there's a pretty good thread (saw it a couple of months ago) on twoplustwo about a similar situation. you should search for it and check it out.
                            Comment
                            • lolguy999
                              SBR MVP
                              • 01-28-10
                              • 3070

                              #15
                              ho ho... file that lawsuit immediately and thank me later
                              Comment
                              • BeerDog99
                                SBR MVP
                                • 09-22-10
                                • 4894

                                #16
                                I agree with the posters here, your Ace plays, therefore both of your cards are played in the hand.

                                Just an aside, if this hand happened online, I can think of at least SEVERAL SBR users off the top of my head who would be screaming about "action-flops" and rigged hands etc ad naseum.
                                That is so funny and true...
                                Comment
                                • stikymess
                                  SBR MVP
                                  • 05-19-10
                                  • 3288

                                  #17
                                  I would say you have a case here, have either of you thought of going to the news stations? I know not a priority for the news but bad pub on this for them.

                                  We had a case of a jackpot years ago hit by some lady and the casino stuck with the "faulty machine arguement", the maker of the machine paid out after it was splashed on the news for about a week.

                                  Just an idea before you hire an attorney to take 1/3 of your money.
                                  Comment
                                  • Ian
                                    SBR Hall of Famer
                                    • 11-09-09
                                    • 6071

                                    #18
                                    If what you posted is accurate you are 100% entitled to the money. Most casinos do have a rule that a pocket pair is required for a hand to be jackpot eligible with quads, but not all of them have that rule. If the casino meant to have that rule, but only stated that both cards must play, then that's their problem, not yours.

                                    FL doesn't have an overarching gaming control board, but you should contact the division of pari-mutuel wagering and try to file a complaint. Make sure you have a hard copy of the poker room's rules. If you can't make any headway with them then hire an attorney.
                                    Comment
                                    • Nittany Lion
                                      SBR MVP
                                      • 09-14-10
                                      • 1639

                                      #19
                                      Make sure u update us on what u decide to do, I'm curious.
                                      Comment
                                      • wtt0315
                                        SBR Hall of Famer
                                        • 01-18-07
                                        • 8037

                                        #20
                                        ian,
                                        do you know where i can find the number for the pari-mutuel gaming? Does this cover poker and horse betting here in florida? I was thinking that was just for the track side. thanks again

                                        I will keep you guys updated

                                        Originally posted by Ian
                                        If what you posted is accurate you are 100% entitled to the money. Most casinos do have a rule that a pocket pair is required for a hand to be jackpot eligible with quads, but not all of them have that rule. If the casino meant to have that rule, but only stated that both cards must play, then that's their problem, not yours.

                                        FL doesn't have an overarching gaming control board, but you should contact the division of pari-mutuel wagering and try to file a complaint. Make sure you have a hard copy of the poker room's rules. If you can't make any headway with them then hire an attorney.
                                        Comment
                                        • horja1
                                          SBR Hall of Famer
                                          • 01-13-11
                                          • 5646

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Nittany Lion

                                          If the five cards laying on the table are 5-3-3-3-5

                                          And you have A-3 and the other guy has 5-5, then your hand is 3-3-3-3-A and his hand is 5-5-5-5-3.
                                          Comment
                                          • wtt0315
                                            SBR Hall of Famer
                                            • 01-18-07
                                            • 8037

                                            #22
                                            thanks ian i found the site took me forever to figure out where to go in it, i am guessing this is it
                                            https://www.myfloridalicense.com/ren...ri&prof=10&SID=
                                            Comment
                                            • Degenerate
                                              SBR High Roller
                                              • 06-25-07
                                              • 159

                                              #23
                                              You should definately dispute that. GL
                                              Comment
                                              • Ian
                                                SBR Hall of Famer
                                                • 11-09-09
                                                • 6071

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by wtt0315
                                                thanks ian i found the site took me forever to figure out where to go in it, i am guessing this is it
                                                https://www.myfloridalicense.com/ren...ri&prof=10&SID=
                                                Your link comes up as an error. This is their contact page.
                                                Comment
                                                • steviec27
                                                  SBR Sharp
                                                  • 06-20-10
                                                  • 438

                                                  #25
                                                  To put it in basic terms

                                                  If its two hole cards must play, they do, so 100% take legal action. For 50k it would be ridiculas not to.

                                                  If it states you must have a pp as part of your quads, you dont, so dont pursue.

                                                  Bottom line is if its just the casino managers word that your taking that it must be the latter then you need to ask for written proof (and one which was in place before the incident not one he has knocked up since). If there is no rules written on the fact that it says quads and it just simply states that both hole cards must play then I see absolutley no reason why you couldnt win a legal battle, you meet the criteria stated and the rules cannot be changed to avoid paying up.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • vvvv
                                                    Restricted User
                                                    • 04-12-11
                                                    • 36

                                                    #26
                                                    HUH!

                                                    That doesnt even make sense..extra card out there..no?
                                                    Comment
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