I know there are a plethora of "online is rigged" threads, but...

[Pap45murF]

...here's another one.

Not really. Just wanted to put my 2 cents in (and lose it to a runner runner).

I've been playing for about 10 years now. Read all the books, got good, made a lot on european sites until that whole "online poker is now illegal in america" bill happened. I think the success had to do with europeans being a lot more timid than the crazy ass americans. But anyways, I paid my rent with poker for months, yada yada.

Point being, I'm not some angry tween who lost KK to AA and stormed off to ask mom for 20 more dollars.

Recently I downloaded the Sportsbook.com poker room because it was rated highly for it's visuals and inventive style... along with being filled with gamblers trying to win quick bucks to bet on games. (aka Walking ATMs)

Anyways, I popped in 50 bucks so I could play different types, get used to the poker room, and dust off my poker skills. I won and lost some in cash games, ended up around 100 bucks... and then proceeded to lose 20 consecutive 5 dollar Double or Nothing SnG's (my fave grinder game). Double or Nothing's are generally won by sitting on your hands until you get uber hole cards, double up, then ride the rest out with zen like patience.

However not once in my 20 game losing streak did I lose to a better hand. Every single time it was something like QQ (mine) vs (Q7 ???) theirs and it would go K 10 9... 8... 6.

Along with mine, any time anyone else would go all-in preflop, the dominated hand would almost always win. To the point where I would sit back, laugh my ass off, and shake my head in disbelief. AA losing to A4 off. Once it was a 4 way all-in and AK, AQ, and JJ lost to 44.

I'm not saying the random number generator was designed to cheat or favor the underdog, but isn't it possible that it was designed in a way that isn't completely "random?" For instance, it's exactly as likely to get dealt AK as it is 2 7. Exact same likelihood. And yet I get 2 7 at least 10 times a game, while I get AK maybe once if I'm lucky.

Any thoughts? Once again, I'm not raging, it was just 50 bucks. I'm just thinking out loud. Thanks for reading this entire rant.

[thechaoz]

Been playing online for good money since 2004. We all have our runs, and if you use pokertracker or similar software just look at your win percentages over 100's of thousands of hands. They all stack up correctly (AA is 80% vs any pocket pair etc) and this is just a small sample size.

Hit me up if you wanna play sometime. I have money across a bunch of sites, and I'm not supposed to play on stars/FT because I live in washington but I just use a VPN. I'd love to get a Home game going on stars for sbr, but we shall see. BOL at the tables.

[Pap45murF]

I play on PStars (Pap45murF), Cake Poker (Pap45murF), Sportsbook Poker (TheWhiteJesus), and occasionally FullTilt (Ch33zWiz).

You'll usually find me in the 5, 10, or 20 Double or Nothing SnGs.

And I've wanted to use a PokerTracker or similar software but they're all like 100 bucks... and there's no working torrents that I've found.

[Conan]

thats what happens its shitty just got to ride the waves up and down me i just lost A3 spades to 10 8 Spades 456 spades flop then yep you got it 7 spade turn killer

[Pap45murF]

So I'm watching WPT on tv a second ago, and Matusow gets As Qs... raises 3x to get the crap hands off it. Gets called by Ad 8d.

Flop is Ah Qd 4d. Top 2 pair for Mike and flush draw for other guy. 66/33. Mike goes all-in for about 7x whats in the pot and other guy calls and catches on the turn, busting Mike out of the tourney.

This is my recent luck in a nutshell. Is there any other way to play that AQ or is that just another one of those bad beats you have to take in your "correct game" strategy?

[Richards]

...here's another one.

I've been playing for about 10 years now. Read all the books, got good, made a lot on european sites until that whole "online poker is now illegal in america" bill happened. I think the success had to do with europeans being a lot more timid than the crazy ass americans.

I don't think it has anything to do with Europeans being more timid than Americans, just that Americans were a little ahead of Europe as far as poker catching on and players getting good at it.

As far as player stereotypes go, Scandinavians are about as crazy and aggressive as they come.

[Pap45murF]

I don't mean to stereotype too much. I know that none of the most aggressive players are american (Farha, Hansen, etc). It just seemed that the europeans I played were much more conservative and safe with their money, while americans were impatient and raised hands they had no business playing because they saw it on tv.

[Legions36]

I don't mean to stereotype too much. I know that none of the most aggressive players are american (Farha, Hansen, etc). It just seemed that the europeans I played were much more conservative and safe with their money, while americans were impatient and raised hands they had no business playing because they saw it on tv.

Sorry to say but your saying this and that and you have been playing for so long 10 years and only playing $5-20 double or nothing sit-n-goes and cant even afford a tracking software, and saying online poker is rigged. If you look at the software u will see the truth, mainly just donkeys getting lucky thats all and if u have been playing for so long u would know this. But there are times were u might think so. And for you Aq top two pair getting away from only if your really good could you get away from that, but thats on some other level of poker only some people know how to use.

Mainly for online poker best thing to do is maintain your bankroll and that 1 hand wont even matter, to be honest you wont even think of it. Think of it as 1 big grind and dont worry about 1 hand, worry about say a 20-40k hands and work from there. I used to do the same thing until i started to realize these methods and now its been a better feel.

[lolguy999]

Not a rant... i totally hear you man... i have many bad luck in poker as well... QQ losing to QA, AK losing to KT, KK loses to A9 etc... busted me out of plenty of tournys... I suggest you try pinnaclesports poker. They're more focused on sportsbooks and their place are the real walking ATMs. Just my 2 cents/

[RANDAZZO]

Far from rigged. That's just poker. It happens to everyone.

[mvp123]

we all have bad beat stories but such is poker

[Pap45murF]

Sorry to say but your saying this and that and you have been playing for so long 10 years and only playing $5-20 double or nothing sit-n-goes and cant even afford a tracking software, and saying online poker is rigged. If you look at the software u will see the truth, mainly just donkeys getting lucky thats all and if u have been playing for so long u would know this. But there are times were u might think so. And for you Aq top two pair getting away from only if your really good could you get away from that, but thats on some other level of poker only some people know how to use.

Mainly for online poker best thing to do is maintain your bankroll and that 1 hand wont even matter, to be honest you wont even think of it. Think of it as 1 big grind and dont worry about 1 hand, worry about say a 20-40k hands and work from there. I used to do the same thing until i started to realize these methods and now its been a better feel.

Don't know if I'm just high or what... but not much of what you said made sense.

1. Who can't afford 100 dollars? That's 1 unit for my sports betting. It's just that pot odds to hand odds are easy so basically I'm shelling out 100 bucks for a hand history chart when I could just request from the sites.

2. 5-10-20 DoN SnGs are what all the good grinders use. I'm usually in there with the same 3 or 4 people. Play 4 tables at once, usually lasts around 30 minutes. 4 more tables, I'm at 8 tables an hour. At the 10 DoNs that's 80 dollars an hour up for grabs. You do better than average, you got 20 dollars an hour. Put in the 30 hours a week like I did, you got 600 dollars a week. Better than most jobs will pay you.

3. I wasn't worried about 1 big hand, I was worried about 20 consecutive hands.

4. Poker is not on some unreachable level. Learn the skills, put in the hours, it's pretty easy to grind out money.


I'll check this tomorrow when I'm not high and see if the words make sense.

[Legions36]

Don't know if I'm just high or what... but not much of what you said made sense.

1. Who can't afford 100 dollars? That's 1 unit for my sports betting. It's just that pot odds to hand odds are easy so basically I'm shelling out 100 bucks for a hand history chart when I could just request from the sites.

2. 5-10-20 DoN SnGs are what all the good grinders use. I'm usually in there with the same 3 or 4 people. Play 4 tables at once, usually lasts around 30 minutes. 4 more tables, I'm at 8 tables an hour. At the 10 DoNs that's 80 dollars an hour up for grabs. You do better than average, you got 20 dollars an hour. Put in the 30 hours a week like I did, you got 600 dollars a week. Better than most jobs will pay you.

3. I wasn't worried about 1 big hand, I was worried about 20 consecutive hands.

4. Poker is not on some unreachable level. Learn the skills, put in the hours, it's pretty easy to grind out money.


I'll check this tomorrow when I'm not high and see if the words make sense.

But u have been playing poker for 10 years and only have a bankroll for $5,10,20 sit-n-go double up, come on dude time to regroup as you should be a pro by now. And if your a regular playing online then its peanuts to get a tracking software.
I will be a nice guy pm me if you want HM i have it, if you like PT i will get it for you. But HM is so much better. They were really hard to find as i looked for a long time to find the good ones.

Your right it is easy to grind it out and make money.

[Legions36]

Not a rant... i totally hear you man... i have many bad luck in poker as well... QQ losing to QA, AK losing to KT, KK loses to A9 etc... busted me out of plenty of tournys... I suggest you try pinnaclesports poker. They're more focused on sportsbooks and their place are the real walking ATMs. Just my 2 cents/

AQ wins about 33% to QQ remember that, k10 beats ak 25%,A9 beats kk about 33%, if you track that it adds up to that. so qq will win 2 and loss 1 in that situation, ak will win 3 and loss 1. Its happened live or online just part of the game, i used to cry about it a long time ago but after i started to track my progress i realized how stupid i was to have this thinking in my head.

[Loonzy]

gotta take the bad with the good..... bottom line...... Poker is not for sissies

[Pap45murF]

But u have been playing poker for 10 years and only have a bankroll for $5,10,20 sit-n-go double up, come on dude time to regroup as you should be a pro by now. And if your a regular playing online then its peanuts to get a tracking software.
I will be a nice guy pm me if you want HM i have it, if you like PT i will get it for you. But HM is so much better. They were really hard to find as i looked for a long time to find the good ones.

Your right it is easy to grind it out and make money.

Dude. I'm not putting all profits into a bank account and saving every dime. I pay rent, college tuition, bills, food, etc. Just recently Matusow was near bankruptcy and borrowing from friends... aka there are ups and downs even for "pros."

I'm just saying, do I really need to shell out 100 bucks for a hand history chart? It's also generally worthless in the "player stats" angle. In online poker you rarely play against the same people multiple times unless they are fellow grinders, and then you should know their play style anyways. If someone had PT playing against me in a cash game, my DoN play style would make it look like I'm a super tight rock... when in fact I'm closer to a LAG maniac in cash games.

[Legions36]

Dude. I'm not putting all profits into a bank account and saving every dime. I pay rent, college tuition, bills, food, etc. Just recently Matusow was near bankruptcy and borrowing from friends... aka there are ups and downs even for "pros."

I'm just saying, do I really need to shell out 100 bucks for a hand history chart? It's also generally worthless in the "player stats" angle. In online poker you rarely play against the same people multiple times unless they are fellow grinders, and then you should know their play style anyways. If someone had PT playing against me in a cash game, my DoN play style would make it look like I'm a super tight rock... when in fact I'm closer to a LAG maniac in cash games.

Umm i did tell u that i have it and u would not have to pay for it if u pm me. its actually more than 100 the one that i have cause it has some of the other gadgets with it. And i thought i was good until i started to use it, now its just so easy cause i dont have to remember alot of valuable information its right there for me. Also once u learn what everything means then u will understand.
If u had such a don play style also with all those years of experience u should be at the higher limits for sure making some really good money, i don't understand how your playing as a regular at these small stakes. If you think people are that much better at higher limits think again.
But keep this going i like to hear other peoples perspectives.

[sinmiedo]

...here's another one.

Not really. Just wanted to put my 2 cents in (and lose it to a runner runner).

I've been playing for about 10 years now. Read all the books, got good, made a lot on european sites until that whole "online poker is now illegal in america" bill happened. I think the success had to do with europeans being a lot more timid than the crazy ass americans. But anyways, I paid my rent with poker for months, yada yada.

Point being, I'm not some angry tween who lost KK to AA and stormed off to ask mom for 20 more dollars.

Recently I downloaded the Sportsbook.com poker room because it was rated highly for it's visuals and inventive style... along with being filled with gamblers trying to win quick bucks to bet on games. (aka Walking ATMs)

Anyways, I popped in 50 bucks so I could play different types, get used to the poker room, and dust off my poker skills. I won and lost some in cash games, ended up around 100 bucks... and then proceeded to lose 20 consecutive 5 dollar Double or Nothing SnG's (my fave grinder game). Double or Nothing's are generally won by sitting on your hands until you get uber hole cards, double up, then ride the rest out with zen like patience.

However not once in my 20 game losing streak did I lose to a better hand. Every single time it was something like QQ (mine) vs (Q7 ???) theirs and it would go K 10 9... 8... 6.

Along with mine, any time anyone else would go all-in preflop, the dominated hand would almost always win. To the point where I would sit back, laugh my ass off, and shake my head in disbelief. AA losing to A4 off. Once it was a 4 way all-in and AK, AQ, and JJ lost to 44.

I'm not saying the random number generator was designed to cheat or favor the underdog, but isn't it possible that it was designed in a way that isn't completely "random?" For instance, it's exactly as likely to get dealt AK as it is 2 7. Exact same likelihood. And yet I get 2 7 at least 10 times a game, while I get AK maybe once if I'm lucky.

Any thoughts? Once again, I'm not raging, it was just 50 bucks. I'm just thinking out loud. Thanks for reading this entire rant.

I strongly desagree about the on line issue that you are discussing here.
As matter of fact i belive that you must be a paid person interested in promote on line poker as many websites.
my experience in on line poker is not as yours, a lot les time but i can tell you this, on line is as rigget as it come.
for the last 2 .1/2 month i have been playing and loosing in every session, 80% bad beats due to the no randomes of the program, but because the programs are designed to induce rake proffits.
the only winners here are the poker rooms.
I compare my proffits and losses per sesion between life games and on line games , and in my last 7 visits to a casino for live games , i came out a winner on 6 ocasions withan average of 125 per hour.
on line playing .10 .25 i have never been profitable in 90 days, barking even or loosing a bit.
so there is my 2 cents.
alex

[sinmiedo]

in time i will only play live poker on a casino where i find all this on line kids that i usually read weel and may me off very nicely
all because they are acoustom to the bad play been reworded.
as for now
finally went broke at bodog and sbr
but i still have 3000 for mylive game/ of 1 2 for now, maybe in a few months i can be playing 2 5

[sweethook]

man you just may be to good of a player

[sinmiedo]

man you just may be to good of a player

Who are you refering to?

[Legions36]

Who are you refering to?

Sorry to say but maybe you need to rethink poker then and how good could you be if u cant even beat .10 .25 limits just a thought maybe read some book. And think do go wrong, also how can u win by only having 1 poker account i have multiple accounts and switch from different times. Also you can go on bad streaks for longer periods of time. How can u say anything about 7 live sessions. Remember online most people multi table which it sometimes seems like alot of suckouts cause your playing more hands. If your losing at Bodog then there is no way u can beat tilt or starz and u should definately consider learning more.

[Sirus73]

I strongly desagree about the on line issue that you are discussing here. As matter of fact i belive that you must be a paid person interested in promote on line poker as many websites. my experience in on line poker is not as yours, a lot les time but i can tell you this, on line is as rigget as it come. for the last 2 .1/2 month i have been playing and loosing in every session, 80% bad beats due to the no randomes of the program, but because the programs are designed to induce rake proffits. the only winners here are the poker rooms. I compare my proffits and losses per sesion between life games and on line games , and in my last 7 visits to a casino for live games , i came out a winner on 6 ocasions withan average of 125 per hour. on line playing .10 .25 i have never been profitable in 90 days, barking even or loosing a bit. so there is my 2 cents. alex

Can't agree more. I play online with a small bankroll only for the fun of it. I constantly lose bad beats as you have stated. I go to my local casino room and rake in the winnings due to bad players trying to play like they do online.

[Legions36]

Can't agree more. I play online with a small bankroll only for the fun of it. I constantly lose bad beats as you have stated. I go to my local casino room and rake in the winnings due to bad players trying to play like they do online.

There u have it u answered it for yourself, u play with a small bankroll and are not good enough to withstand the variance factor, some people can pay good doing this and most cant thats why. If u would just play with the optimal bank roll needed for online poker u would not be saying this at all, sounds like u need to at the very least follow the 20-30 buy in minimum at a level. Follow that rule, play solid for a while and then comeback and say something. It could also be you are not good enough at that level.

[sinmiedo]

There u have it u answered it for yourself, u play with a small bankroll and are not good enough to withstand the variance factor, some people can pay good doing this and most cant thats why. If u would just play with the optimal bank roll needed for online poker u would not be saying this at all, sounds like u need to at the very least follow the 20-30 buy in minimum at a level. Follow that rule, play solid for a while and then comeback and say something. It could also be you are not good enough at that level.

it is very clear that you are a good on line poker player as you state here.
can you post your records or your poker profile and in wich sites you play.
also what stakes and for how long.
For my part i will tell you that im only posting my last 7 visits because i can only go to a local casino once a month at best, while on line i never deposted any money, i only earned trougoth freerrols from there i was able to pull out a few cheques from different sites.
i follows NO1HERE advice and doing very well, and as i stated in another post, i will only ply live from now on, since on line poker is, in my opinion, only beneficial to the poker site.
best regards
alex

[Legions36]

it is very clear that you are a good on line poker player as you state here.
can you post your records or your poker profile and in wich sites you play.
also what stakes and for how long.
For my part i will tell you that im only posting my last 7 visits because i can only go to a local casino once a month at best, while on line i never deposted any money, i only earned trougoth freerrols from there i was able to pull out a few cheques from different sites.
i follows NO1HERE advice and doing very well, and as i stated in another post, i will only ply live from now on, since on line poker is, in my opinion, only beneficial to the poker site.
best regards
alex

Then why post that u only lose to suckouts, everyone has suckouts i have them just like u will have them. I just don't say poker is rigged because of suckout happening and i was trying to give u advice. To be honest i don't even think im good i always try to get better no matter how good i am, but thats just me cause i love poker so much. I told u try that bankroll thing and play your A game u will see.

[sinmiedo]

Then why post that u only lose to suckouts, everyone has suckouts i have them just like u will have them. I just don't say poker is rigged because of suckout happening and i was trying to give u advice. To be honest i don't even think im good i always try to get better no matter how good i am, but thats just me cause i love poker so much. I told u try that bankroll thing and play your A game u will see.

I as you also have a passion for poker, not as much as the love of my familly my wine making( i m an amatheur wine maker for the las 26 years) and also have 2 business to take care( manufacturing and been an landlord) so, i have other ocupations, but i dedicate many hours to poker as i use to when i play chess and dominoes in my yonger years.
the point i m making here is that nothing compare to a live game, where there are suck ups as well because is the nataure of the game, and that usually hapens when you have gamblers that will call any bet just because they are gamblers and not poker players ( in my opinion), but in a live game you can feel the game in another dimension, where , the robotic play( as David Skalasnky refrare to the on line player) usually get crushed when they vist a local csino and has to fece the more complete player.
not all the live casino players are good but let me tell you something that you may know, the good ones can read your soul.
alex

[Legions36]

I as you also have a passion for poker, not as much as the love of my familly my wine making( i m an amatheur wine maker for the las 26 years) and also have 2 business to take care( manufacturing and been an landlord) so, i have other ocupations, but i dedicate many hours to poker as i use to when i play chess and dominoes in my yonger years.
the point i m making here is that nothing compare to a live game, where there are suck ups as well because is the nataure of the game, and that usually hapens when you have gamblers that will call any bet just because they are gamblers and not poker players ( in my opinion), but in a live game you can feel the game in another dimension, where , the robotic play( as David Skalasnky refrare to the on line player) usually get crushed when they vist a local csino and has to fece the more complete player.
not all the live casino players are good but let me tell you something that you may know, the good ones can read your soul.
alex

Well i wish u all the best with your business's the only thing i disagree with u is the rigged thing. As before i tracked myself i thought the same thing but when i see all my hands and review everything i have been able to plug my leaks and play hands better for more value and such, this is the advantage of online because of this and your able to get just as much reads online as live just some different tells, live u get to see what and how the person is playing and yes people are drinking giving money away. I play both live and online, i also have other things on the side so i have to say things are cool for me.
These days im working on alot of new concepts that i never really used its hard getting used to and applying them into my game play, but all in all the last few years of online play ive been able to plug up alot of mistakes i was making and turn them positive. Before it used to be either good or bad and in the mix i won some tournies, but now its been pretty steady.

[Czu81]

Dude. I'm not putting all profits into a bank account and saving every dime. I pay rent, college tuition, bills, food, etc. Just recently Matusow was near bankruptcy and borrowing from friends... aka there are ups and downs even for "pros."

I'm just saying, do I really need to shell out 100 bucks for a hand history chart? It's also generally worthless in the "player stats" angle. In online poker you rarely play against the same people multiple times unless they are fellow grinders, and then you should know their play style anyways. If someone had PT playing against me in a cash game, my DoN play style would make it look like I'm a super tight rock... when in fact I'm closer to a LAG maniac in cash games.

HM and PT are really worth it.... if u find 1-2 leaks on your game u can make more $$$

[stevenash]

Is there any other way to play that AQ or is that just another one of those bad beats you have to take in your "correct game" strategy?

There is a reason why Doyle Brunson hates AQ.
Limp in, somebody is bound to call with something like K9 suited.
If flop comes Kxx (anything but ace) your AQ is now second best.
Even if K9 suited limper catches four to the flush, you know he's going to pay to see the turn, probably river if his missed the flush on turn.

Depends on who is involved in the pot and what position you are in.