Want to compile methond to read flops

[GoIrish682]

on of the biggest flaws in my game i believe is spotting trips, and reading the board well.
This will be crucial to becoming more successful at NL heads up.

I have read some great advice from many of you out there, so maybe someone can start with the BIGGEST sneak attack that gets me is how to spot a SET (PAIRED HOLE CARDS WITH A THIRD ON THE FLOP FOR EXAMPLE) VS TRIPS( WHICH I BELIEVE TO BE A PAIRED BOARD WITH A THIRD MATCHING IN THE HOLE)

I do realize many use the terms 'set' and 'trips' interchangeably.

MANY THANKS!!!

[levski2006]

Thats probably the hardest spot in poker.

[Ian]

There's no one method, it's mostly reading players and the specific situation. Sometimes, however, you can be fairly confident of your opponent's hand.

Take a board like Q84 of different suits. Let's say you're in the big blind with Q8 and you check preflop. On the flop the small blind bets, you raise, and a tight limper reraises both of you. This player has either 88 or 44 the overwhelming majority of the time and you can throw your top 2 pair away. You can be sure he has a set because there are no draws out that he can semi bluff with, a tight player wouldn't limp with cards that make a worse two pair, and facing a raise and reraise a tight player is going to be smart enough to know that a hand like KQ is not ahead.

On the other hand, let's say there was no preflop raise and you have 87 on a board of K87 with a flush draw. Now if you get action from a tight player you are far less likely to be facing a set. Not only could your opponent be semi-bluffing with a flush or a straight draw here, but he may be betting big with just a K in hopes of pricing those types of draws out of the pot. With no preflop raise it is unlikely for your opponent to hold KK, but he's also unlikely to hold 88 or 77 by virtue of the fact that you have an 8 and 7 in your own hand. Furthermore, a tight player wouldn't limp in with K8 or K7 (unless he's on the button).

So in the first situation with top 2 pair you have an automatic fold, and in the second situation with bottom 2 pair you have an automatic shove.

[FuzzyDunlop]

If you're looking to improve your flop texture analysis skills, learn PL Omaha, even if its just play money.

[Mr Handicapable]

Good question....thats why I like limit...or playing PLO & buying in small! I drove 2 hours to Louisville from Indy several years ago and within 20 minutes of walking in I lost $1200 on a 2 outer in NL by some drunk that was so hammered he couldn't even rack my chips! Give me limit...if you crack my AA w/a set...then I pay u 3 or 4 bets and thats it....live to fight another day! Guess it depends on your personality...NL might be more fun & reading people is much more important....limit is more percentages!

[lolguy999]

lol u CAN'T spot trips... if you get top pair vs middle set with a good kicker in headsup NL holdem format there could be an allin on the flop or if the man with the set slow plays it all in on the turn or the river. There really is no good tells when playing headsup. as your opponent usually can have anything. My advice, play in a 6-9 table poker. Then you can spot more tells by the way people play.

[daneblazer]

So you're asking how to spot a set (66) when you have something like (AT) on a TT6 board? The short answer is, you don't. These hands are next to impossible to pick up and it's -ev to lay this down in the long run unless you have a phenomenal read.

If you have something like KT on a TT67Q board or something like AK on a K78 flop there are certainly situations where you lay it down. As Ian mentioned above, it mostly depends on the player you are up against and if you are up against a decent player, it depends on his view of you as well.

[El Sol]

Ian said it perfect.

You dont read the board per se you read your opponent. What has he been doing? Does he have the habit of limping small pairs in early position? Or is he the type that always raises his pair in any position. The most dangerous player is the one who will mix it up. If you run into one of those, then its best to just avoid playing against them completely because they will always outplay you post flop.

However, have a question for Ian.

I agree about letting two pair go in the scenario you laid out but lets say you have Q8 on a board of Q84 in a ring game heads up in position on the flop against a TAG limper that you know well. You bet he re-raises you, your read is that more than likely has 44 therefore giving you four outs to beat him. When is it OK, if ever, to call him down....

[Ian]

I totally missed the fact that OP was talking about heads up. Playing HU you're just going to have to live with the fact that you're usually going to pay off a set when you have something.

I agree about letting two pair go in the scenario you laid out but lets say you have Q8 on a board of Q84 in a ring game heads up in position on the flop against a TAG limper that you know well. You bet he re-raises you, your read is that more than likely has 44 therefore giving you four outs to beat him. When is it OK, if ever, to call him down....

How I would play this depends on stack sizes, but generally speaking in your example I would need very significant evidence that I'm beat to fold. Your TAG opponent could very well have 44, but his hand range is a lot wider here than in my example. Here are some of the diffrences:

-In my example a TAG player would know it's suicidal to run a naked bluff into two players who have shown strength out of position. In your example the TAG will be bluffing with air fairly frequently because he may just figure that you're trying to pick up the pot after the action has been checked to you in position.

-For similar reasons as above, a TAG will also be much more likely to think that top pair with a strong kicker is worth value betting in your example. If he's tight and very aggressive he may even push a hand as weak as A8 here.

Of course, if you know your opponent well enough to be confident that he'll only make this sort of raise with a set, then you should trust your read and fold.

Just my opinion... hope that answers your question.

[GoIrish682]

you are sooo good....listen, can you recommend other than reading a book (i have book reading issues)
ways i can learn to play more like you? i'm giving away a TON of points to another guy who is sending me great links and he's a champion. i would be happy to send you points too.

thanks

[mrmarket]

you are sooo good....listen, can you recommend other than reading a book (i have book reading issues)
ways i can learn to play more like you? i'm giving away a TON of points to another guy who is sending me great links and he's a champion. i would be happy to send you points too.

thanks

I would suggest you read one book as a beginner. It will clear out a lot of the bad thought processes and habits you have developed while learning on your own. It is Getting Started In Hold'em By Ed Miller. It is a fairly short book but it should be fundamental reading for any losing/green poker player.

Once you have that there are lots of quality video sites out there(Deuces Cracked, Cardrunners, Leggo, Blue Fire etc.) Deuces cracked would be the best choice, they have a good series for micro players. And not liking reading is a bad habit which will only hinder your development. Why don't you?

As for identifying a "set" in the situation you last described, you should be really putting your opponent on a range of hands. Betting patterns/PT stats and any reads(timing tells etc.) will allow you to develop a logical thought process to determine the most probable range of hands an opponent would be playing based on his actions.

In summation if an uninspiring rock raises you on a dry board his range is weighted toward a set. This is a generalization of course, so take the advice at face value.

Also, buy Pokertracker or Hold'Em Manager if you don't have it. They both offer micro options if cost is an issue but review the various packages available and proceed from there.

Good luck.

[El Sol]

I totally missed the fact that OP was talking about heads up. Playing HU you're just going to have to live with the fact that you're usually going to pay off a set when you have something.



How I would play this depends on stack sizes, but generally speaking in your example I would need very significant evidence that I'm beat to fold. Your TAG opponent could very well have 44, but his hand range is a lot wider here than in my example. Here are some of the diffrences:

-In my example a TAG player would know it's suicidal to run a naked bluff into two players who have shown strength out of position. In your example the TAG will be bluffing with air fairly frequently because he may just figure that you're trying to pick up the pot after the action has been checked to you in position.

-For similar reasons as above, a TAG will also be much more likely to think that top pair with a strong kicker is worth value betting in your example. If he's tight and very aggressive he may even push a hand as weak as A8 here.

Of course, if you know your opponent well enough to be confident that he'll only make this sort of raise with a set, then you should trust your read and fold.

Just my opinion... hope that answers your question.

well that pretty much sums it up, outside of knowing your opponent, stack sizes is so important in this spot. I only brought it up because Its a common mistake I see beginners make and often over looked by average players as well.

[Ian]

you are sooo good....listen, can you recommend other than reading a book (i have book reading issues)
ways i can learn to play more like you? i'm giving away a TON of points to another guy who is sending me great links and he's a champion. i would be happy to send you points too.

thanks

ty for the kind words.

discussing hands on a site like twoplustwo.com will help. also, many people speak highly of the video training sites like the ones mrmarket mentioned, although i've never used one myself.