live or on line

[sinmiedo]

it has been a bad run for the month of december and the first 3 days of januray
all i know is that on line took not only the time but also some money out of my br
fortunatly i have a healthy one but i refuse to deposit again .
it was imposible to make a brake, nothng hold anymore and it does not matter where i ply
now a days on line poker sucks.
on the otrher hand i did very well on live casino game, wheree i make sure all on line sucker pay and pay well
there is no comparison, live poker is the way to play, too bad the casino is 2 hours away and my poker buddys can not make it.
i m so lucking forward to make a trip again .................)( does anyone here goes to Niagara casino often)

[Schmitty78]

What is so wrong with playing online that it makes live play so much better?

[jayfly]

just too many weird things happen on line on a consistent basis, espec at the lower limits which most of us play. I am in no way saying it is rigged but the pct of so called action flops (paired suited connected etc) is so much higher online then it is live. Site makes their money on rake so the more in the pot the bigger the rake. They have no interest in who wins just want the biggest pots. A friend of mine did a small study. I think it was like around 500 hands online and live. Online had 39% action flops while live was 28%. Thats too big of a difference imo.

[zjohnzzz]

online you play more hands hence more bad beats

[Husker36]

I think the only difference between online and live is that you lose the ability to read your opponent online. Online, you play more hands per hour not to mention multiple tables...... so you dont get to know the players at the table. If I'm in a live tournament and I have QQ I will lay it down to certain players at the table. Online...... I very rarely would ever lay down QQ against a random player that I know nothing about. Heck..... most times you dont even know if the player is male or female.

I still dont believe that online poker is rigged in any way. There is no motive by the poker site to rig hands or set up situtions to make the pots bigger. As I'm writing this, PokerStars has 164,565 players playing right now on 26,587 tables! There is plenty of rake coming in. The only issue online is that the cards arent truely random. If you understand computer programming..... there is no true random shuffle.... but a mathmatical formula that will give you a "random" deck each hand.

Most people play way more hands online than in live poker. Therefore, they see more "weird" things online. Live you might see 20-25 hands per hour. Online you see around 60 (per table). So if you are playing 4 tables you are seeing more than you would see in 10 hours of live play.

I've been knocked out of a LIVE tournament with AK vs 72 and with AA vs AK off suit. It's poker.

[uofajoe99]

Agree all the way around. Me personally Live=medium to big winner over life..Online= Degenerate Loser

[cotsy2010]

live is far better than playing online tough online is handy for a quick game and if you get KO'D in a SNG you can just play another

[sinmiedo]

live is far better than playing online tough online is handy for a quick game and if you get KO'D in a SNG you can just play another

my feelings exactly
in my oppinnion internet poker leaves out many important abilities of a true poke player, most important is the opponet body expressions and movements.
those plus the enviroment makes live poket a true event.

[wtt0315]

more hands doesnt mean squat. More hands means more bad beats yes, but it also means more of everything else so it is rational. if i play online for 3 hours and that equals 10 hours of live play you still will see more bad beats in that three hours then you will in 10 hours of live play. i saw 3 royal flushes and a straight flush in 5 hours one day online and i play a lot more live poker and never seen that. Even on Sbr poker, the last 4 tourneys i have seen a identical pocket pairs in the same hand. Example, last game was jj vs jj. before that it was 77 vs 77 and the two before that it was 22 vs 22. You just dont see that that often live, it happens of course, but not four tourneys in a row. You can win at online poker a lot of people do, its just different and you have to play differently. You have to expect things you wouldnt normally see, and you will see some patterns you can take advantage of if you play at a site long enough. the thing is you will never be able to prove online poker is rigged,set up or whatever because its the same as online casinos. What i mean by that is there is always the possibiltiy of it happening. You see someone getting black 15 times in a row. would that normally happen no, but could it happen yes. so you cant say its rigged. Getting a runner runner straight flush to beat a boat? can that happen yes, does it normally no. once again you cant say its rigged even though you think something is fishy. Just learn patterns and you can beat onlinepoker. Learn people and you can beat live poker.
goodluck

[juuso]

Live is better. You can mutiltable. You can grind out more in the same amount of time.

[Lineman]

no comparison, totally different.

[sinmiedo]

i m still a looser on line
however , live has been very very profitable for me.

[count da money]

just too many weird things happen on line on a consistent basis, espec at the lower limits which most of us play. I am in no way saying it is rigged but the pct of so called action flops (paired suited connected etc) is so much higher online then it is live. Site makes their money on rake so the more in the pot the bigger the rake. They have no interest in who wins just want the biggest pots. A friend of mine did a small study. I think it was like around 500 hands online and live. Online had 39% action flops while live was 28%. Thats too big of a difference imo.

turnover they get the rake

[Richards]

The only issue online is that the cards arent truely random. If you understand computer programming..... there is no true random shuffle.... but a mathmatical formula that will give you a "random" deck each hand.

Not strictly true at least at any poker site worth a damn. Any legitimate online casino or poker room is going to use a "Hardware Random Number Generator" which is quite different from a "Pseudo Random Number Generator" which is using a mathematical formula to generate numbers which appear random.

Poker sites and online casinos (again if they are worth a damn) use a piece of dedicated hardware that takes a probabilistic random natural process and turns it into random digital bits which are used to generate a shuffle. Examples, quantum uncertainty in photons (light), environmental heat causing fluctuations in 3 or more oscillators running side by side, time between beta decay in a radioactive source.

Some crappy sites may be using PRNG's but the better ones use HRNG which will actually give you a BETTER shuffle than you get in a live casino (by hand, shuffle machines do ok).

Check the FAQ's or Gaming Licensing documents at your poker site most of them have technical documents describing and certifying the source of their shuffles.

Sorry if I come of like a dick correcting you but I see this fallacy repeated quite often online, and this was a research interest of mine in college.

[Richards]

. A friend of mine did a small study. I think it was like around 500 hands online and live. Online had 39% action flops while live was 28%. Thats too big of a difference imo.

His data is worthless as 500 hands is a tiny sample size, you can't gather anything meaningful from that comparison. Another 500 hand sample might show 42% action flops online and 31% live. Variance.

500,000 might show data you can believe but that's going to be a lot of hours at the casino in the live game.

[sinmiedo]

His data is worthless as 500 hands is a tiny sample size, you can't gather anything meaningful from that comparison. Another 500 hand sample might show 42% action flops online and 31% live. Variance.

500,000 might show data you can believe but that's going to be a lot of hours at the casino in the live game.

well....you really wrote a nice mathematical explanation, and i really thank you for that.
my other math indicate the following
live casino play per hour profit is around 50 average, playing 1 2 tables, i had it as high as 120 per hour. i vist the casino 5 times per year due to other issues.
online playing .10 .25 6000 hands ///////////400 profit.
i m not a manth sience mayor , just a businessman with an accounting background.
in my opinion the only true is reality

[Czu81]

it has been a bad run for the month of december and the first 3 days of januray
all i know is that on line took not only the time but also some money out of my br
fortunatly i have a healthy one but i refuse to deposit again .
it was imposible to make a brake, nothng hold anymore and it does not matter where i ply
now a days on line poker sucks.
on the otrher hand i did very well on live casino game, wheree i make sure all on line sucker pay and pay well
there is no comparison, live poker is the way to play, too bad the casino is 2 hours away and my poker buddys can not make it.
i m so lucking forward to make a trip again .................)( does anyone here goes to Niagara casino often)

I'm in the same shoes losing every session since 6th december-online.

[Richards]

well....you really wrote a nice mathematical explanation, and i really thank you for that.
my other math indicate the following
live casino play per hour profit is around 50 average, playing 1 2 tables, i had it as high as 120 per hour. i vist the casino 5 times per year due to other issues.
online playing .10 .25 6000 hands ///////////400 profit.
i m not a manth sience mayor , just a businessman with an accounting background.
in my opinion the only true is reality

Hi Sinmiedo

Actually I wasn't disagreeing with you that live games might be more profitable than online, only the concept that the cards that are dealt online are "not random" and the concept of "action flops" online where poker sites are deliberately trying to inflate pots. Maybe I'll accept a fly-by-night site or two does this, but not in general.

I haven't played as many hands as a lot of other folks here, but my feeling is that is that players online are not better overall, but better on average. Put another way, in the two casinos I play live games at there is a fair share of good and decent players, but there's a good amount of BAD and TERRIBLE players live. A wider range -- from the serious grinder to the guy that tries his hand with $400 once a month and only knows what he sees on late night poker TV broadcasts. From tight passive to loose aggressive.

Online (of course varies by site and level) I think maybe the players at the lower end of the spectrum are a little more likely to have read some poker strategy articles and videos, and while not creative, are at least not leaking money like the guy in a casino Friday night who has had a few too many, and therefore the game overall is a little tougher to beat.

This is just the feeling I get but again others have played more than me.

P.S. My last visit to the live casino I saw three sets (not mine luckily) in a row beaten by straights or flushes within 25 hands or so. Not an outrageous occurrence IMO but a player seeing this online might cite it as another example of the "action flop" at work.

[sinmiedo]

I'm in the same shoes losing every session since 6th december-online.

the same thing is happening to me
i can not get above 20 dollars
fortunatli live has been my money making savior
i have to say that because of the nature of poker, the game must be play live
also as richard point out poker sites makes their money by rakes
in the on line poker world threre are 2 winners and 1 looser the house that makes millons on rake and the real winner. but at the end the only winner is the house

[Husker36]

well....you really wrote a nice mathematical explanation, and i really thank you for that. my other math indicate the following live casino play per hour profit is around 50 average, playing 1 2 tables, i had it as high as 120 per hour. i vist the casino 5 times per year due to other issues. online playing .10 .25 6000 hands ///////////400 profit. i m not a manth sience mayor , just a businessman with an accounting background. in my opinion the only true is reality

I dont think you can compare .10/.25 online poker to 1/2 live poker. Im my opinion...... the play is going to be much more loose in a .10/.25 online game.... therefore you will see more "bad beats"

[sinmiedo]

I dont think you can compare .10/.25 online poker to 1/2 live poker. Im my opinion...... the play is going to be much more loose in a .10/.25 online game.... therefore you will see more "bad beats"

I just stated a fact of my experience. I did play a number of sites on that level and the play was very tight.
In a live 1 2 i m always come out possitive ( 70% of the times)
On line i had my good days and my bad monts as the lates 2 months that i can not win 1 single session.
I just lost my last pennies on line an i do not expect to deposit anytime soon as neve do that.
I still have a helthy bank roll that i play only on live games.
Alex

[bettilimbroke999]

Poker online and poker in real life should not even be called the same game. Poker in a casino is 10x easier than poker online. If you lose online you might be a winner in a casino but if you lose in a casino you will absolutely get pwned online. Too many reasons for this to even get into it but the main reason is casinos are filled with suckers that are there to lose their money and be entertained and get drunk, online poker on the other hand is filled with 99% tight ass grinders playing 3 tables at once who fold 90% of their hands and play poker 20 hours a day while watching reruns of the 40 different poker shows they recorded on their DVR while dreaming of winning a WSOP bracelet, now who do you think going to be easier to win money off of?

[Richards]

Poker online and poker in real life should not even be called the same game. Poker in a casino is 10x easier than poker online. If you lose online you might be a winner in a casino but if you lose in a casino you will absolutely get pwned online. Too many reasons for this to even get into it but the main reason is casinos are filled with suckers that are there to lose their money and be entertained and get drunk, online poker on the other hand is filled with 99% tight ass grinders playing 3 tables at once who fold 90% of their hands and play poker 20 hours a day while watching reruns of the 40 different poker shows they recorded on their DVR while dreaming of winning a WSOP bracelet, now who do you think going to be easier to win money off of?

Lotsa casual players who throw a few hundred on the table once in awhile in the casino. If you are in the USA, it's pretty hard for a casual player to play online because of the barriers of depositing. Therefore you weed out the casual players and get whats left online.

On the other hand, I'd venture to guess that European facing online poker sites aren't exactly weak...maybe somebody who knows can comment on this.

[BeerDog99]

Poker online and poker in real life should not even be called the same game. Poker in a casino is 10x easier than poker online. If you lose online you might be a winner in a casino but if you lose in a casino you will absolutely get pwned online. Too many reasons for this to even get into it but the main reason is casinos are filled with suckers that are there to lose their money and be entertained and get drunk, online poker on the other hand is filled with 99% tight ass grinders playing 3 tables at once who fold 90% of their hands and play poker 20 hours a day while watching reruns of the 40 different poker shows they recorded on their DVR while dreaming of winning a WSOP bracelet, now who do you think going to be easier to win money off of?

LOL, this is a good post and sometimes sounds a little like me (when I have time and I try to avoid the re-runs..). Thanks.

[mrmarket]

I play both.

[uofajoe99]

I played both pretty consistently before marriage. I think it ultimately comes down to a mindset for me. I enjoy the physical nature, holding the card and the chips, talking to the other players so much that I think I'm better with live play because of it. Online I get BORED and start making ridiculous plays. Who cares if someone catches me playing shit hands, they don't know me from Adam. But in person I build up a reputation as both a nice guy and a "good" player so I tend not to run junk.

[sinmiedo]

I played both pretty consistently before marriage. I think it ultimately comes down to a mindset for me. I enjoy the physical nature, holding the card and the chips, talking to the other players so much that I think I'm better with live play because of it. Online I get BORED and start making ridiculous plays. Who cares if someone catches me playing shit hands, they don't know me from Adam. But in person I build up a reputation as both a nice guy and a "good" player so I tend not to run junk.

i have a similar aproach.
the human interaction is the base of the game imo and on live leaves that outside of the equation, even with the chat box.

[Ninersnut]

Live play is better cause people don't pull half of the non-sense that the people online do. Online you make a shitty play and then leave. In live no one wants to play like an asshole cause their face is associated. Plus in live play no one is going to talk shit to me once they crack my aces with 2 8 off suit after calling a 4x blind raise.

[bracerman]

I dont think you can compare .10/.25 online poker to 1/2 live poker. Im my opinion...... the play is going to be much more loose in a .10/.25 online game.... therefore you will see more "bad beats"

You would think, but just about any online game is wayyy tighter than 1/2NL live.

There is just no comparison between the two. I played some live 1/2 yesterday that any online player would murder to get a seat at. Weak, passive and so beatable, unlike the ultra nittyness just about all small stakes online poker has become

[sinmiedo]

I agree with you Braceman.........
on line they play 4 or 10 tables at that level and only high pairs............
the same guys could not play live the same game at 1 table, imposible, that is why they get crushed some times.

[Richards]

Yeah playing live poker that tight would be boring for most folks you can throw away dozens of hands in minutes online whereas live most people would get stir crazy sitting at the table for an hour playing one hand.

[sinmiedo]

I started reading a e book from Theo Cage, last night.
If some one has reade it already please post comments.

[bigdog3580]

Live play is so slow and people eating their dinner at the table is disgusting!

[Buried_PIRATE]

You would think, but just about any online game is wayyy tighter than 1/2NL live.

There is just no comparison between the two. I played some live 1/2 yesterday that any online player would murder to get a seat at. Weak, passive and so beatable, unlike the ultra nittyness just about all small stakes online poker has become

I agree.

Tho the comparison you are looking for is 1/2 = .05/.1 online I think

Online used to be more fun!

[GUMMO77]

Live play is so slow and people eating their dinner at the table is disgusting!

I was at an early bird poker tourney a few years ago were you got a free breakfast buffet with the tournament buy in. The tournament starts and here comes this guy to my table with 20 strips of bacon on his plate!

Anyway ... another thing about going to a card club is that you're paying for gas, food, drinks and ( let's hope) tips. You have to factor all those elements into your "winnings".