Really struggling - what is the key?

[BeerDog99]

Ya know, I am so struggling with this luck vs. skill theory.

Recently, I have made some changes to my game. Not major changes, just additional tweaks where I have been more aggressive and really trying to play my position stronger.

I think I am playing the same way but all of sudden, after a month of steadily increasing my bankroll, I cannot make a hand, hold a hand or seem to push/call at the right time.

I tried to play through it, thinking my ability/style would overcome the shorter term luck factor but it hasn't. Now my bankroll has been depleted again.

Again the logical side of me is fully aware that this is not "online poker is rigged" but I am perplexed at what the difference is.

The levels I have been playing on Fulltilt are full ring, $0.10/$0.25, mainly $0.25/$0.50 and an extended shot $0.50/$1.00. I did not see a large difference in overall playing style in any of the levels so I am not sure they come into the equation here.

Is it that I had a more "luck" to build the bankroll and therefore the increase was artificial? Or is it that I just need a larger bankroll to play through it?

So my question isn't about bankroll management or even specificy recommended playing tips.

My question is, what have you done to get through tough patches and maintain consistent growth? What have you done to validate your play or find the missing fix/leak?

Thoughts/opinions?

Thanks!

[ballahollic2]

I am sort of going through the same instance you are right now. I have steadily been able to grind and make money mostly at 10/25, 25/50 and then the occasional 50/1 shot/ tilt zone? lol...but lately I have not bee able to do anything right. I don't think there is a big enough difference from 10/25 to 50/1 to blame the downswing on the stakes. I think having a larger bankroll to play through it is definitely one thing that I think would help. Another may be your mind set? I have noticed for myself I have lost all confidence and question every decision i make. When your mentally not there you will not have proper results

[BeerDog99]

Thanks.

Yes my confidence and bitterness started to creep in when I am scraping the last of my bankroll.....

I guess the question is, if it is only that, how do you fix it?

Cheers.

[ballahollic2]

The variance in poker can be brutal at times. Having massive buy in swings at a given level isn't uncommon to the best players. I also have started to recently TILT beyond belief and practically am handing money to people. What was ur bankroll before your downswing started? Maybe you weren't properly equipped to begin with?

[BeerDog99]

ya, I had ~ 10x 50bb buyin. the thing that gives me some hope on this theory is that I was doing the normal up/down swings but I was steadily winning ~ 1/2 buyin every day I was playing. Sometimes more sometimes less but that is how I got it up in the month. then three days of bad luck/play and I am at square one.

I not expecting alot, just steady movement up.

[ballahollic2]

See I think thats even a slightly small bankroll. Not hard to go on a bad downswing and see all your profit and money completely gone. For such small stakes you don't need as many buy ins, but even at 10/25 it is not hard to lose it all

[BeerDog99]

agreed. I know it is on the edge but someday I have been hoping, I get on the > 10xBuyin upswing..... :-)

Cheers.

[sinmiedo]

over the last 6 months i had made some dollars, not much, but i noticed that when i start hitting a larger br for some unknown reason/ i start loosing sessions .and before i loose it all, i make withdraws, and leave the minimum, just to play some sng or sma/ll buy ins tournament
so far i was able to save 1000 from total destruction. i still have 300 ( when i should had have 1200)
SBR has been my br starter in all the occasions and still have a load of gratitude for their 50 dollars bodog gift cards and the frerolls
because of this i still playing and learning how to control my br
one important advice is never move up till you comfortably can afford to loose 10 bb in a session
in my experience ( that is not as much as yours ) i m very careful about this since i earned all the br trough freerolls promotions and SBR gift cards/
i believe that poker still a game of luck because the wsop is won every year by a different and unknown player, only 1 or 2 pros sometimes makes it to the final table.
so my point is to be extremely conservative with your br, and play as many frerolls and chip tournaments to add on to it without focusing much on the stakes, till you have a 2000 in your br
then move to the .50 1.
i found that on line poker is way different than a casino or friendly tournament among friends.
best of luck and never give up , you are one of the finest players i know.

[eastvan09]

i often get annoyed at having to go down in stakes, but some times it is necessary. at full tilt I just deposited for the first time in awhile and am playing rush poker. liking it a lot even though I am only at 2c/5c NL. Generating lots of FTPs and rakeback. I am curious to see my rakeback total at the end of the month

[ballahollic2]

East its never as high as you expect it to be I can't explain it. What rakeback service do you use?

[Ian]

Without seeing specific hands it's very difficult to tell what the issue may be, but it's possible that your frustration has put you on tilt and caused you to make bad decisions that have cut into your bottom line.

[Sport_Fish]

Well firstly, whether the problem is bad luck or bad play on your part, you should definitely drop down stakes - as low as you need to go. This will ensure you lose the minimum.

Now as for turning things around, I personally have different ways that work for me at different times when dealing with rough patches. The easiest is to take a break from poker for 2-3 days - the goal here is to forget about poker as much as possible. If you can accomplish this, it will ensure you return with a fresh mindset. If your not able to do this and consistently thinking about poker and your losses, that's a sign to stop playing.

At this point, the best thing is to watch some training videos, read some articles, just to refresh your knowledge. Sometimes I even like to look at my past profits, which help boost my confidence and assure me that the rough patch can only last so long (with cash games, swings can be huge so yes it's very hard to deal with at times).

And most importantly, you just have to learn to accept the fact that it is PART of the game of poker. Once you accept that it's something beyond your control (for the most part) you can learn to deal with downswings.

[MRDOG]

Everyone goes on bad runs.Maby take a break if you need to.I play around the same blinds as you and hit a bad run myslef.(lost about 1/3 my Bank Roll)Mostly because my hands were not holding up once I was all in with the best hand.Some because I started to play bad.

Been playing a little more the last couple days and built my roll back up.All anyone can do is have your cash in with the best hand and if it holds it holds.If not than nothing you can do.

Good Luck at the tables !

[BeerDog99]

Good advice, thanks all.

[wtt0315]

70-30 luck to skill

[daneblazer]

http://www.evplusplus.com/poker_tools/variance_simulator/

Variance is a bitch. I went through a 50k hand stretch that almost made me stop playing.

[Roy Halladay]

I can't take it anymore.

[Resler]

I played poker full time for about 8 months when I was unemployed. The most important thing is how to deal with the variance. If you move your bankroll from 1,000 to 5,000 then you feel like the world is crashing if you drop back to 3,500 because of variance. Instead of thinking that you are up 2,500 you can't help but think you are down 1,500. Track your big blinds per 100 hands over a huge hand sample to judge how your game is, that is the only way to know if you are playing well. Even then variance can skew the results unless the sample is big enough.

[icancount2one]

ya, I had ~ 10x 50bb buyin.

You are playing extremely underrolled.

You want 30 to 50 100bb buy ins.

[korbal29]

not tilting and accepting tough losses are some of the keys to success

[HustleGetPaid]

Try not to tilt and maybe taking a fews days off to look at some hand histories might help...

[BeerDog99]

Yes I am taking a few days off, it has been a very tough couple of weeks...

[sinmiedo]

i know the feeling, i had the same experience.
but i m taking a different approach by playing on site whre the the players are soft and doing it on bigger stakes.
i found more easy to make moeny that is why we play poker

[BeerDog99]

The sad thing is that I am seeing the same thing on other sites..... I know I am the common denominator..... This sucks.....

[GAB]

just smoke alot of weed b4 you play and you will play fine

[NYER5680]

Poker is a game that you can play well and still lose, the key is take notes on players and FIND THE FISH. Dont sit at a table with other good players, your notes will show you this. You win money off bad players not good players.

[oldstylecubsfan]

The long run is infinite, dont be results oriented.

You should be focus on the hands you played not the money you make/loose.

[jetsjets1028]

dogs need start coming in which they havent been doing

[lyc16]

u should focus on how u get ur money in. if u get ur money in with best odd. then dont worry about what cards comes out. thats out of ur control and nothing u can do

[k13]

2 outer
2 outer
3 outer
flop set lose
flop top set lose
flop trips lose
2 outer
3 outer
2 outer
flop straight lose
flop nut straight lose
flop boat lose
3 outer
3 outer

Lose 20 out 100 coin flips


Repeat every 2 hours.

[bazilla901]

if its not fun anymore quit and don't waste your money... Its rare for someone to actually MAKE money...

[Winnipeg Jets]

spatial perception. understand the 3d variation for better value.

[mrmarket]

You have to go all in more!

[BeerDog99]

You are playing extremely underrolled.

You want 30 to 50 100bb buy ins.

I can't imagine a >30 x 100BB buy-in downswing.... That would be hard to handle.

Cheers.

[k13]

If you think I'm joking....

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Ad As]

*** FLOP *** [Ac 6c 9s]

Decent flop right.....no no no you have no chance

*** TURN *** [Ac 6c 9s] [8s]
*** RIVER *** [Ac 6c 9s 8s] [Kd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
RuurDos: shows [Ts 7s] (a straight, Six to Ten)
Hero: shows [Ad As] (three of a kind, Aces)

*yawn*