Shop Talk

[wal66]

I live in Florida and while we do have no-limit poker here we have a little stipulation that makes or no-limit experience much different than those who live elsewhere. We have a state mandated $100 max buy in on any level of play. While this is designed to help keep people from getting in over their heads it creates a very serious problem of a different aspect. It basically de-values the game. When someone knows they only have a max of $100 at risk they tend to get more aggressive trying to chip up. Aggressive is one thing but far too many go beyond aggressiveness and go to the extreme. Most of your average players do not understand the concept of pot odds, implied odds and have never even heard of probability. With $100 max buy in practically every hand dealt has pot odds early on in the game. This makes for total blind play and a total lack of judgment. I understand the thought process but it completely takes away from the game as a whole.
I have no experience in live poker outside of Florida so I don’t know what it is like other places. At you casino when you have much or even no limit buy ins do you find people have a better understanding of odds and pot values or do you still have to deal with people who never miss a flop and never think they don’t have a chance to draw out?

[wal66]

Tried a different approach to the play this week. Bought in and played tight for about 45 minutes and got a feel for how the cards were falling. Some might say they got a feel for the players but how the cards are falling is more important when you are playing with basically regulars. Finally played a couple of hands in my normal tight aggressive way and lost some. Decided due to the randomness of the cards I would try something else for a bit. I started playing gutshot draws and gap connectors and just basically betting and calling like money did not matter in the least. After about 35 to 45 minutes of this I was up $700 and walked away.

We always get pissed when someone makes a bad call against us that makes no sense but I gotta tell ya when you are raking pots you really don't mind being called a donkey.

[Uncle Joe]

The games popularity has done harm and good sometimes think it would be better if it were not flooded with the tv games and celebritys turning it into a mockery sometimes. I play in local games that are $100 buy in and know what you mean cause I hate to see some new guy come in and just throw his hundred away real fast.

[mrmarket]

Proper strategy depends on the blinds in a 100 cap game. If you're 50 BB or less you'll have to play some variation of SSS to be profitable. Mostly people think it's a crapshoot.

BTW I can't remember the exact details but I believe Florida is passing/has passed legislature to increase the BI limits. You should go check it out in the legislature forum on 2+2.

[mrmarket]

The games popularity has done harm and good sometimes think it would be better if it were not flooded with the tv games and celebritys turning it into a mockery sometimes. I play in local games that are $100 buy in and know what you mean cause I hate to see some new guy come in and just throw his hundred away real fast.

Are you crazy? You should be salivating when some donk throws $100's away. What do you think brings fish to the tables? If anything we need more exposure and celebrities playing poker. Where exactly do you think the money you make in poker comes from?

[Uncle Joe]

May be playing chess with a 3 year old kid or dunking on a 8' goal over a 2nd grader is fun to you. Not me though I like to win there money but some of us like good challenges some times.

[poker_dummy101]

This is why I love the extreme turbo heads up matches.. people think they are crapshoots.

[wal66]

Poker, glad to see you back. We miss you in Players Talk

[nosniboR11]

i kind of think they are crap shots, heads up,

[Ian]

I live in Vegas and the quality of play in no-limit games varies quite a bit.

To address your situation accurately you need to provide us with more information. I'm assuming you're talking about cash games. What are the blinds? What is the rake or time collection structure? What is the typical action like (ie: are most pots raised preflop, will preflop all-ins get action)? This game is most likely beatable for a good clip, but there may be factors that could make it a whole lot tougher (like if the rake is prohibitive).

[justaguy]

I remember hearing a story several months ago about a guy who lost a 4k pot in a Florida game like this and walked outside and killed himself. Obviously it's a big pot for $100 max buyin but probably not worth killing yourself over. I am new here so I am not sure if I am allowed to link to the story or not. If I am I will provide it.

Also, I fail to see what the problem is if everyone is going crazy in a game like this. Sit back and profit.

[Phightin' Phils]

damn thats wild about the $100 buy-in. People are probably giving their money away in a game like that. But to answer your question about buy-ins at the casinos we play in, i think its typically a 40BB minimum and a 150BB maximum buy-in for games from 1/2 to 5/10. After that they usually allow the buy-in range to go bigger so players can play pretty deep-stacked. I've seen a few of the bigger games at the borgata like 50/100nl and the dudes playing those games are literally super-stacked, a lot of orange chips in that game.

[Phightin' Phils]

^^^ might actually be a 20 or 30 BB minimum buy-in, im not sure. people who come into a game a buy-in for the minimum are assholes anyway.

[wal66]

The games here are 2-2. 2-5 amd 5-10 no limit and all have the max buy in of $100. Obviously the better game for the buy-in amount and generally the tighter game is the 2-2. usually tighter players are on these tables and quality players can have a good game. For the same reasons the true gamblers are on the 5-10 tables. This is the table when your cards are holding up or you are just running good you can make a small fortune in a very short period of time. It is also the table though where you have no chance at protecting the best hand against any draws because it only will cost someone a max of a $100 or a minimum of $60 to rebuy.

[nosniboR11]

thanks for the info wal

[Ian]

The games here are 2-2. 2-5 amd 5-10 no limit and all have the max buy in of $100. Obviously the better game for the buy-in amount and generally the tighter game is the 2-2. usually tighter players are on these tables and quality players can have a good game. For the same reasons the true gamblers are on the 5-10 tables. This is the table when your cards are holding up or you are just running good you can make a small fortune in a very short period of time. It is also the table though where you have no chance at protecting the best hand against any draws because it only will cost someone a max of a $100 or a minimum of $60 to rebuy.

Wow, those blind levels are crazy. At the 2/2 game you can more or less wait for a strong starting hand, raise it when you get it, bet the flop, and after that if you have something reasonable go all-in with it for a $100 stack unless you have a compelling reason not to. If the game is passive you can do some preflop limping with better speculative hands and also make some early street moves in position. I wouldn't do a lot of slowplaying here.

At 5/10 it's possible that the players are better than you're giving them credit for being. With the blinds representing 15% of a starting stack, it pays to go after them aggressively. I don't have any experience in cash games like this in which everyone is extremely short stacked, but that stated when you're playing for a $100 stack you only have two options: go all-in preflop or fold. You might want to check out the book No Limit Hold 'Em Theory and Practice by David Sklansky and Ed Miller. Specifically, from about page 200 on there is a lot of info about what hands to stack off with preflop for varying amounts of money. The ranges are probably a lot looser than what a person who plays deeper stacked games would likely think.

Good luck to you...

[soaked in sweat]

that max buy-in of a hundred sounds like crap, i couldn't imagine buying in a 5-10 table with 100. wow.

[wal66]

Essentially at the $5-$10 game with the buy in of $100 the majority of the players are simply flooding the game in the early stages with re-buys in order to get substantial dollars in play. For someone like myself when the cards are holding it is ok because I am only in pots with quality hands regardless of the pot odds. When cards are not holding there is nothing you can do because you have someone calling a $60 raise or a $100 push with like 5-7 off simply because they are willing to get cash in play.

We are told that mid-June the state will allow the minimum buy ins to be raised. No real word yet as to what these new limits will be but the rumor is somewhere around a $500 max buy in. This will change the play somewhat but not drastically.

Also if you look around the casino tournament schedules you will notice a lot of Florida based players have had recent success in a number of events. This may be a reflection of these low buy in limits and the type of play it forces. I don't know of any real research involved here but there has to be some coralation between the two. Low max buy ins promotes hyper aggressive play on one end and super tight aggressive play on the other. Depending on how the cards are running either method can be the ticket to success. Naturally the player best adaptable at both is the player most often going the furthest as well.

Still, I look forward to the state of Florida elivating the buy in limits in the near future but it may be at the Bash before I see if the game is different when the minimum stakes are higher.