This is the hand history in question, courtesy of qwertvt (thanks!):
***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 7292534
$0 + $6 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 21:12:00 24/07/2018 ET
Table 'Table 78142', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 10 is the button. Small Blind $200, Big Blind $400
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (joined) : Lex_icon, amount $2790, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (joined) : GUMMO77, amount $4570, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (joined) : bobbywaves_CONF, amount $1815, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (joined) : no1here, amount $2150, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (joined) : MrKLC, amount $4981.98, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (joined) : unde0087, amount $8744.01, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 10 (joined) : qwertvt, amount $2550, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Lex_icon: Small Blind ($200)
GUMMO77: Big Blind ($400)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to qwertvt: [7c, Ts]
bobbywaves_CONF: Raise ($1789.99)
no1here: Call ($1789.99)
MrKLC: Fold
unde0087: Fold
qwertvt: Fold [pre] ($0)
Lex_icon: Fold
GUMMO77: Fold
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [6s, Qs, 9d]
bobbywaves_CONF: Check ($0)
no1here: Check ($0)
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [Kh]
bobbywaves_CONF: Check ($0)
no1here: Fold
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
bobbywaves_CONF: Muck ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $4354.98, Rake $0
Summary bobbywaves_CONF: bet $1789.99, won $4354.98, net $2564.99, won $4354.98 from main pot
And also a bit of table talk that occurred during the hand:
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[/IMG]
To sum it up: Bobbywaves does his patented bet allin for all but 0.01 chips. No1here with a larger stack calls preflop, all others fold. Post flop both check the flop and then on the turn Bobby checks and No1here FOLDS, not facing a bet and with Bobby only having 0.01 chips behind, in essence folding when he could check for free with approximately 4400 chips in the middle and his opponent only have 0.01 chips left (LOL).
So this was either an obvious chip dump (not a very smart one), or perhaps it was an innocent mistake, a misclick or something to that effect. However, I and many others I've spoken to are not apt to believe the latter explanation. Here are some additional indisputable facts:
(1) Bobbywaves is right on the bubble for making team USA in the World Cup while No1here is not even close to qualifying for any team (he had <800 points two weeks ago).
(2) Bobby tells him during the hand to "check it down" - which is absolutely against the rules, clear collusion. And waves has patented this moving allin for all but 0.01 chips then checking it and taking the maximum time on every street - yet he has never explicitly (in all the times I've seen it) told the other party to check it down. Others can also verify this.
(3) While it's well known that waves stalls on every street after betting all but 0.01 chips, no one I've spoken to has seen No1here stall ever, yet on this particular hand he did take maximum time to check the flop and then near maximum time to act on the turn (though he didn't time out) before preemptively folding.
(4) Whenever Bobbywaves gets in an argument/fight with someone about anything on the forum, No1here is almost always the only one (if anyone) who jumps to Waves's defense.
(5) Bobbywaves is apt to tell anyone who criticizes him on the forum (which is pretty much the entire forum at some point or another haha) how badly they suck at poker and life compared to him due to his cashing in more SBR freerolls than them and/or cashing out more in the SBR store than them. However with No1here, despite No1here almost never doing well in any of the poker contests and having cashed out very little from the store, Bobby often comments to others what a great player No1here is.
So those are the undeniable facts. But to clarify why some of these are relevant, wanted to make a few points clarifying about these (some of the below things are admittedly my opinion/speculation).
Naturally the suspicion that everyone seems to have is that the two of them were working together, arranged this chip dump to help bobby, who definitely needs it to help him qualify for Team USA, get more than a double up without a showdown. The fact that the two of them have been buddy/buddy with each other in past debates (as mentioned in 4 + 5 above) certainly lends more credence to this theory. If the two of them want to dispute this being a chip dump, both are obviously welcome to post their own hand history from this hand so we can see what both of them had (and one of the moderators can also verify that the hand holdings are correct and not doctored). If bobby actually had him beat, then perhaps it really was an innocent mistake.
Bobby telling him to check it down - something which is absolutely against the rules. This seems like an attempt (admittedly a really poor one) to try to cover up the chip dump. Most likely he knew how suspicious it would look if No1here folded randomly there, that he would obviously be accused by everyone of being involved in a chip dump. So in an effort to cover that up, he makes that statement preemptively so that he can claim after the fact that he actually didn't want No1here to fold since he generously "offered to check it down".
No1here taking the maximum time to check on the flop and nearly all the time on the turn before folding (again without timing out) when he's never been known to stall, especially with his opponent having 0.01 chips left. This lends additional credence to the theory that the two of them were communicating elsewhere (Skype or whatever), and that's why both were taking maximum time - they were trying to work out with each other how to orchestrate this chip dump and try to draw the least amount of suspicion possible. Again, this is entirely speculation on my part, but it certainly seems like a plausible theory.
Every player at the table who witnessed this and chose to speak up agreed that it was a clear chip dump. If so, it naturally raises the question if the two of them might have done similar things in past tourneys. Granted if so, they probably didn't do anything quite this blatant earlier, but it obviously would not be hard to dump in certain situations without drawing much, if any suspicion, to yourself. But if this is true, perhaps that's why bobbywaves has managed to get the number of points that he has. If so, this naturally means that he potentially has taken the rightfully earned spot of another player who has been playing fairly.
Anyway, these are the facts as well as my opinions about the situation - something which I and others have messaged the moderators to please look into. I'm not sure if anything will come of it, but at the very least, I would strongly encourage anyone in the future if they find themselves at the same table as these two to watch what they are doing very closely. If I accomplish nothing else with this post, hopefully I can at least hope to prevent them from doing anything like this again as they know others will call them out quickly now if they do so.
As I said, these are the facts + my opinions. I would like to hear everyone else's as well.
***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 7292534
$0 + $6 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 21:12:00 24/07/2018 ET
Table 'Table 78142', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 10 is the button. Small Blind $200, Big Blind $400
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (joined) : Lex_icon, amount $2790, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (joined) : GUMMO77, amount $4570, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (joined) : bobbywaves_CONF, amount $1815, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (joined) : no1here, amount $2150, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (joined) : MrKLC, amount $4981.98, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (joined) : unde0087, amount $8744.01, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 10 (joined) : qwertvt, amount $2550, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Lex_icon: Small Blind ($200)
GUMMO77: Big Blind ($400)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to qwertvt: [7c, Ts]
bobbywaves_CONF: Raise ($1789.99)
no1here: Call ($1789.99)
MrKLC: Fold
unde0087: Fold
qwertvt: Fold [pre] ($0)
Lex_icon: Fold
GUMMO77: Fold
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [6s, Qs, 9d]
bobbywaves_CONF: Check ($0)
no1here: Check ($0)
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [Kh]
bobbywaves_CONF: Check ($0)
no1here: Fold
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
bobbywaves_CONF: Muck ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $4354.98, Rake $0
Summary bobbywaves_CONF: bet $1789.99, won $4354.98, net $2564.99, won $4354.98 from main pot
And also a bit of table talk that occurred during the hand:
[IMG]
[/IMG]To sum it up: Bobbywaves does his patented bet allin for all but 0.01 chips. No1here with a larger stack calls preflop, all others fold. Post flop both check the flop and then on the turn Bobby checks and No1here FOLDS, not facing a bet and with Bobby only having 0.01 chips behind, in essence folding when he could check for free with approximately 4400 chips in the middle and his opponent only have 0.01 chips left (LOL).
So this was either an obvious chip dump (not a very smart one), or perhaps it was an innocent mistake, a misclick or something to that effect. However, I and many others I've spoken to are not apt to believe the latter explanation. Here are some additional indisputable facts:
(1) Bobbywaves is right on the bubble for making team USA in the World Cup while No1here is not even close to qualifying for any team (he had <800 points two weeks ago).
(2) Bobby tells him during the hand to "check it down" - which is absolutely against the rules, clear collusion. And waves has patented this moving allin for all but 0.01 chips then checking it and taking the maximum time on every street - yet he has never explicitly (in all the times I've seen it) told the other party to check it down. Others can also verify this.
(3) While it's well known that waves stalls on every street after betting all but 0.01 chips, no one I've spoken to has seen No1here stall ever, yet on this particular hand he did take maximum time to check the flop and then near maximum time to act on the turn (though he didn't time out) before preemptively folding.
(4) Whenever Bobbywaves gets in an argument/fight with someone about anything on the forum, No1here is almost always the only one (if anyone) who jumps to Waves's defense.
(5) Bobbywaves is apt to tell anyone who criticizes him on the forum (which is pretty much the entire forum at some point or another haha) how badly they suck at poker and life compared to him due to his cashing in more SBR freerolls than them and/or cashing out more in the SBR store than them. However with No1here, despite No1here almost never doing well in any of the poker contests and having cashed out very little from the store, Bobby often comments to others what a great player No1here is.
So those are the undeniable facts. But to clarify why some of these are relevant, wanted to make a few points clarifying about these (some of the below things are admittedly my opinion/speculation).
Naturally the suspicion that everyone seems to have is that the two of them were working together, arranged this chip dump to help bobby, who definitely needs it to help him qualify for Team USA, get more than a double up without a showdown. The fact that the two of them have been buddy/buddy with each other in past debates (as mentioned in 4 + 5 above) certainly lends more credence to this theory. If the two of them want to dispute this being a chip dump, both are obviously welcome to post their own hand history from this hand so we can see what both of them had (and one of the moderators can also verify that the hand holdings are correct and not doctored). If bobby actually had him beat, then perhaps it really was an innocent mistake.
Bobby telling him to check it down - something which is absolutely against the rules. This seems like an attempt (admittedly a really poor one) to try to cover up the chip dump. Most likely he knew how suspicious it would look if No1here folded randomly there, that he would obviously be accused by everyone of being involved in a chip dump. So in an effort to cover that up, he makes that statement preemptively so that he can claim after the fact that he actually didn't want No1here to fold since he generously "offered to check it down".
No1here taking the maximum time to check on the flop and nearly all the time on the turn before folding (again without timing out) when he's never been known to stall, especially with his opponent having 0.01 chips left. This lends additional credence to the theory that the two of them were communicating elsewhere (Skype or whatever), and that's why both were taking maximum time - they were trying to work out with each other how to orchestrate this chip dump and try to draw the least amount of suspicion possible. Again, this is entirely speculation on my part, but it certainly seems like a plausible theory.
Every player at the table who witnessed this and chose to speak up agreed that it was a clear chip dump. If so, it naturally raises the question if the two of them might have done similar things in past tourneys. Granted if so, they probably didn't do anything quite this blatant earlier, but it obviously would not be hard to dump in certain situations without drawing much, if any suspicion, to yourself. But if this is true, perhaps that's why bobbywaves has managed to get the number of points that he has. If so, this naturally means that he potentially has taken the rightfully earned spot of another player who has been playing fairly.
Anyway, these are the facts as well as my opinions about the situation - something which I and others have messaged the moderators to please look into. I'm not sure if anything will come of it, but at the very least, I would strongly encourage anyone in the future if they find themselves at the same table as these two to watch what they are doing very closely. If I accomplish nothing else with this post, hopefully I can at least hope to prevent them from doing anything like this again as they know others will call them out quickly now if they do so.
As I said, these are the facts + my opinions. I would like to hear everyone else's as well.
