Q-J off: Middle Position

**ronzer** · 02-26-17, 11:51 AM

Not if there is action before you. Just dominated by too much. I would open it and its an easy fold if you get 3 bet.

**Auto Donk** · 02-26-17, 12:28 PM

trny, dump it

cash game, come in if no action in front of you

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 02-26-17, 12:42 PM

My answer is No. Not in range. Not strong enuf. If everything bricks out, can't even beat King-hi.

Love it as a BigBlind-Defend. Of course, QJ(suited) is much stronger than QJ(offsuit).

**Auto Donk** · 02-26-17, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat

My answer is No. Not in range. Not strong enuf. If everything bricks out, can't even beat King-hi.

Love it as a BigBlind-Defend. Of course, QJ(suited) is much stronger than QJ(offsuit).

much stronger?

try 3% stronger.....

annie duke taught me the myth of "yah, but they were suited" back in 2008.....

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 02-26-17, 12:56 PM

Sweeper, I have a theory question for u:

* In Middle Position, u open-raise.

* Late Position re-raises.

* Surely, you're coming back over the top w/ QQ+ and AK.

...My question, Are there any hands u call with there? I know it depends upon opponent. Basically, what hands are too good to fold there? The obvious one would be Middle Pairs that are on the hi-end (99, TT, JJ). It would suck to just fold those hands, but sometimes u have to.

What about Suited Broadway cards? Are any of those good enuf to see a flop?

One other obvious consideration. How deep are u + your opponent? The top-pros talk about this a lot. In cash-games, players are often super-deep (like 100+ BB). In tournaments, the turbos move the blinds so quickly - often you're playing 20BB stacks.

**Auto Donk** · 02-26-17, 01:11 PM

given what i have seen of sweeper, he's jamming all those hands your reference

**sweep** · 02-26-17, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat

My answer is No. Not in range. Not strong enuf. If everything bricks out, can't even beat King-hi.

Love it as a BigBlind-Defend. Of course, QJ(suited) is much stronger than QJ(offsuit).

Correct answer. Auto muck for me unless defending agro player when out of position

**sweep** · 02-26-17, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by Auto Donk

given what i have seen of sweeper, he's jamming all those hands your reference

Clown

**daneblazer** · 02-26-17, 01:13 PM

6max fine to open raise with

full ring probably not but depends on the table dynamic

These hands are fine to mix into your range

One of my moves was to 3bet hands like K2s - K5s occasionally. You have a K blocker. It's easy to get away from and if you are able to show the hand, it makes it extremely tough for the villain and the table to pick up on your range. Gotta know what your are doing and know the table though because it can get you in trouble if you don't.

**sweep** · 02-26-17, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat

Sweeper, I have a theory question for u:

* In Middle Position, u open-raise.

* Late Position re-raises.

* Surely, you're coming back over the top w/ QQ+ and AK.

...My question, Are there any hands u call with there? I know it depends upon opponent. Basically, what hands are too good to fold there? The obvious one would be Middle Pairs that are on the hi-end (99, TT, JJ). It would suck to just fold those hands, but sometimes u have to.

What about Suited Broadway cards? Are any of those good enuf to see a flop?

One other obvious consideration. How deep are u + your opponent? The top-pros talk about this a lot. In cash-games, players are often super-deep (like 100+ BB). In tournaments, the turbos move the blinds so quickly - often you're playing 20BB stacks.

Middle position this scenario Im not open raising with less than 77/AQ suited

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 02-26-17, 02:10 PM

Sweep, if u ever it to one of the Bashes and want to play Poker Heads-up vs a selected Villain (ADonk or USCguy), let me know.

I'd make it a fun deal. Something like:
* $50 for each participant
* $100 for winning player
* $100 to winning player's selected charity

**SharpAngles** · 02-26-17, 04:58 PM

QJ a little loose. My floor is usually JKo for the Jack-King-Off showdown value

**Itsamazing777** · 02-26-17, 08:19 PM

Lol. Dependes on the stakes and the players at the table Not enough info

**USCPHILLYGUY** · 02-26-17, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat

Sweep, if u ever it to one of the Bashes and want to play Poker Heads-up vs a selected Villain (ADonk or USCguy), let me know.

I'd make it a fun deal. Something like:
* $50 for each participant
* $100 for winning player
* $100 to winning player's selected charity

**Ballerholic** · 02-27-17, 05:46 AM

it really depends on the players behind you. It can go either way, I'm usually opening it in CO.

**sweep** · 02-27-17, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by Ballerholic

it really depends on the players behind you. It can go either way, I'm usually opening it in CO.

i can see opening in the cut off for sure. Any positions prior to that no way

**ZINISTER** · 03-28-17, 09:33 AM

Depending on table is always one of my 1st consideration. We all know how tables change during the session. At points, some players are trying to take control of the table, other times they are waiting in the weeds. If its a good table, the dynamics change at points. You feel the table has tightened you can raise with that at the cut-off. I have been at tables in Cleveland in the early part of the day, that I know all of em' will fold unless the have a tier one hand. I let em' limp and raise 75% to pot steal the limps. I do it to the ring of 50-100 profit some days. Stealing the pre-flop money is one of the most profitable things to be doing. I steal,steal,steal and low and behold when I get the hand they are their sick of my shyt and pay me off. I play cash games. I wouldn't have a clue what the norm is for tourneys.

**sinmiedo** · 03-28-17, 10:51 AM

In my case, and because I seldom play cards, it is a limp or 3xbet, in the past, it was a fold for me, but today, and because of the type of players play with, i do what I do.
Last weekend someone 4x bet with QJ and in late position when I had 10's , flop was 8 9 10 2 clubs, this was a perfect flop for me, and since I put my opponent on big pairs, I lead out for 75% of the pot expecting the obvious re-raise, and he did, to $400 dollars, I only have 800 total so I end up pushing all in, with an instant call.................. turn was not pretty A spades, so I thought set over set, and the river another 8 for a full house and me walking to the box to cash out.bad read possitive results.
I was very lucky but I want to share the story here for the Q J mid position thread.

**USCPHILLYGUY** · 03-28-17, 11:04 AM

All in for 75% of the clowns that play on this site

**SharpAngles** · 03-28-17, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by ZINISTER

Depending on table is always one of my 1st consideration. We all know how tables change during the session. At points, some players are trying to take control of the table, other times they are waiting in the weeds. If its a good table, the dynamics change at points. You feel the table has tightened you can raise with that at the cut-off. I have been at tables in Cleveland in the early part of the day, that I know all of em' will fold unless the have a tier one hand. I let em' limp and raise 75% to pot steal the limps. I do it to the ring of 50-100 profit some days. Stealing the pre-flop money is one of the most profitable things to be doing. I steal,steal,steal and low and behold when I get the hand they are their sick of my shyt and pay me off. I play cash games. I wouldn't have a clue what the norm is for tourneys.

**ZINISTER** · 03-28-17, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by sinmiedo

In my case, and because I seldom play cards, it is a limp or 3xbet, in the past, it was a fold for me, but today, and because of the type of players play with, i do what I do.
Last weekend someone 4x bet with QJ and in late position when I had 10's , flop was 8 9 10 2 clubs, this was a perfect flop for me, and since I put my opponent on big pairs, I lead out for 75% of the pot expecting the obvious re-raise, and he did, to $400 dollars, I only have 800 total so I end up pushing all in, with an instant call.................. turn was not pretty A spades, so I thought set over set, and the river another 8 for a full house and me walking to the box to cash out.
I was very lucky but I want to share the story here for the Q J mid position thread.

You have a 35%ish chance of hitting that flopped set into a full house. That dude still took a hard beat. When he flops the nards gets it in and gets shoot in the heart! That's POKER. Peace

**ZINISTER** · 03-28-17, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by SharpAngles

?? What What?

**sinmiedo** · 03-28-17, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by ZINISTER

You have a 35%ish chance of hitting that flopped set into a full house. That dude still took a hard beat. When he flops the nards gets it in and gets shoot in the heart! That's POKER. Peace

I know, I fell bad for the guy, but finally I passed on the toarch I was carrying all night.
You are 100% correct. Is poker, or as Tom Dwan
say. Poker is good!!!!!
Sin

**Enkhbat** · 03-28-17, 07:24 PM

I don't think anyone fold QJo on SBR poker

**daneblazer** · 03-28-17, 07:30 PM

2 Jack off is my favorite. I love 2 Jack off