1/3 nl hand at casino 12/17/12

**daneblazer** · 12-17-12, 09:26 PM

nevermined, need to read the title

**thetrinity** · 12-17-12, 09:32 PM

its ok dane take ur time lol

**BiTeMe UsAdOj** · 12-17-12, 10:13 PM

With all the facts as you present them and sans elaboration and going for pithy:

1. yes

2. pretty much... yes

**daneblazer** · 12-17-12, 10:13 PM

Definitely need to 3-bet to avoid getting the train of calls behind you. If he's generally tight/passive...he probably would have tossed away mid pocket pair or connectors and even if he calls with them it's not particularly a great call. That leaves with TT+ AK maybe AQs all of which you're ahead except AA. Even if he does have 66-99 you're dominating the top of his range. If he's a little looser you can throw any other crap he may be calling with and you're way ahead.

Depending on how much he had, I'd probably bet a little more on the flop, then jam the turn, but calling if he shoves.

On a side note, if I'm in his position and had aces I'd play it exactly like he did on that board. Not 4-betting pf to keep you around and try to get it in on the turn.

**BiTeMe UsAdOj** · 12-17-12, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by daneblazer

Depending on how much he had, I'd probably bet a little more on the flop...

That's why I said "pretty much"... woulda personally made it ~2/3 of pot there

On a side note, if I'm in his position and had aces I'd play it exactly like he did on that board. Not 4-betting pf to keep you around and try to get it in on the turn.

Yep it's possible he played AA this way but in a 1/3 game I'm gonna play it like trinity did and tell him "nh" if he rolls over aces. If he slowplayed a set (I wouldn't have here) more power to him... rebuy.

**thetrinity** · 12-17-12, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by daneblazer

Definitely need to 3-bet to avoid getting the train of calls behind you. If he's generally tight/passive...he probably would have tossed away mid pocket pair or connectors and even if he calls with them it's not particularly a great call. That leaves with TT+ AK maybe AQs all of which you're ahead except AA. Even if he does have 66-99 you're dominating the top of his range. If he's a little looser you can throw any other crap he may be calling with and you're way ahead.

Depending on how much he had, I'd probably bet a little more on the flop, then jam the turn, but calling if he shoves.

On a side note, if I'm in his position and had aces I'd play it exactly like he did on that board. Not 4-betting pf to keep you around and try to get it in on the turn.

it was fairly early at the table and he had been on the tight side, but i wasnt going to label him a complete nit so soon. he really didnt look crazy about calling the extra 29 preflop, so i kinda was leaning to him not being so strong. there were a lot of limps but he did have the button, so i still thought he could have a fairly wide range of hands, all of this leads me to not being that crazy about the flop.

onto the flop, the 55 bet is a bit smaller then i usually make because i wanted to leave a bit of room to manuever. if he came over the top and i felt strength, i maybe could have found a fold, but i think i probably still get it in the good majority of the time. on that type of board, there was still a lot of hands he could have been shoving with IMO, some i had crushed, some i was crushed by, some that i was pretty much even with. if he calls, and one of many possible uglies came up on the turn i had limited the damage.

on the turn i pretty much made the only play possible, i likely had the best hand and there was already a little over 200 in the pot.

**thetrinity** · 12-17-12, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by BiTeMe UsAdOj

That's why I said "pretty much"... woulda personally made it ~2/3 of pot there

Yep it's possible he played AA this way but in a 1/3 game I'm gonna play it like trinity did and tell him "nh" if he rolls over aces. If he slowplayed a set (I wouldn't have here) more power to him... rebuy.

basically what i was thinking. would have been way above your normal 1/3 players acumen to play aa like that and highly unlikely he slowplayed a set in that spot and even less likely he had something like 78 and slowplayed it. basically felt like i had the nuts on the turn but they were a vulnerable nuts.

**Jeffie** · 12-18-12, 12:03 AM

I would have played it the same. If he slowplayed the nuts then so be it..
He could of easily had a smaller pair like JJ, but most likely a big draw A9-A10 of hearts.
only time i fold there is if its early in a tournament or im in the hand with eberretta.

**BeerDog99** · 12-18-12, 12:19 AM

I probably would have played it like you did but (not that I think it would matter much) I would have bet more than 55$ on the flop, given there is approx. $100 in the pot.

I think he has either a set of 88s or AhKh.

**tatddy** · 12-18-12, 12:25 AM

Everyone has already summed it up for the most part. But given your position I'd have probably raised more preflop with that many limpers. 60ish.

**thetrinity** · 12-18-12, 06:02 AM

Originally posted by tatddy

Everyone has already summed it up for the most part. But given your position I'd have probably raised more preflop with that many limpers. 60ish.

Ya its been summed up pretty well. I didnt want to make it more preflop because he was my only chance at a call. No one is gona limp call 41 more preflop pretty much ever. If i made it 60 i thought that wuld chase out a lot of his hands even the better ones.

**thetrinity** · 12-18-12, 06:19 AM

Time for the results.

He has the surprising 57 offsuit.

Obviously i got rivered or id never know he had that.

The main reason i didnt bet more on the flop was that i had sensed he was weak preflop, and if he was weak, well that probably hit him pretty good, which it did. Also i felt like a big flop bet was committing myself to go the whole way if he calls the flop. The perfect turn card came up so i put the pressure on big time.

Personally if i somehow was in with that, which i never wuld have been, but i culd see scenarios where i had something similar, i think shoving the flop is the best play. He has half the deck 2 times and some fold equity albeit very little. I definitely think turns a fold if i called the flop. I guess u culd call the flop and rep scare cards that miss u on the turn, but i still wuld prefer just getting it in on flop.

**BeerDog99** · 12-18-12, 09:30 AM

wow, cold call a 3-bet with 5 7 off. And then not to re-raise shove on the flop?

I don't see how you could expect that.

You said it was a weak-tight table (i.e. passive), I am really surprised that a 5 7 off was in that spot and played it that way.

Cheers and thanks for this.

**BiTeMe UsAdOj** · 12-18-12, 01:29 PM

5/7os... nice

This why I just laugh and ignore those clowns that start threads sayin you can't beat the rake in these low level games at the casino (with $20-sumpthin' usual pots

)... what the fukk casinos these clowns playin at!... cuz this kinda hopeful chip slingin like villian displayed here is not all that uncommon in the casinos I go to.

Still wouldn't be surprised if ya booked a winning session when all was said and done, trinity.

**thetrinity** · 12-18-12, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by BeerDog99

wow, cold call a 3-bet with 5 7 off. And then not to re-raise shove on the flop?

I don't see how you could expect that.

You said it was a weak-tight table (i.e. passive), I am really surprised that a 5 7 off was in that spot and played it that way.

Cheers and thanks for this.

it was a weak tight table up to that point, thats why it was a bit surprising, but i suspected a weak hand (definitely not that weak!) as he was calling the preflop raise.

after it got back to him after the limpers folded, he was taking a lot of time and even asked if it was 44 total or 44 more to him, and just seemed like he knew he shouldnt be continuing, so i was ruling out bigger hands like jj or qq or ak or aq.

my suspicions were confirmed after the turn all in after he even said out loud "i shouldnt have got involved in this hand" as he was thinking about calling the 170.

2 orbits later i had more misfortune in the small blind with kings. the other player who was playing sort of reckless raised utg to 14, gets 5 calls and i get kings in the small blind and make it 60, basically going to shove the flop if the ace doesnt hit if anyone calls. the big blind folds and utg instashoves for around 250. i call when it gets back to me (had 221 i think) and he goes ur ahead and the flops a108 all hearts (had no hearts) and he ends up having aj offsuit.

not a good session at all end up losing around 800, been ice cold playing cash games lately, tournaments a different story.

**BiTeMe UsAdOj** · 12-18-12, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by thetrinity

I definitely think turns a fold if i called the flop.

**thetrinity** · 12-18-12, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by BiTeMe UsAdOj

5/7os... nice

This why I just laugh and ignore those clowns that start threads sayin you can't beat the rake in these low level games at the casino (with $20-sumpthin' usual pots

)... what the fukk casinos these clowns playin at!... cuz this kinda hopeful chip slingin like villian displayed here is not all that uncommon in the casinos I go to.

Still wouldn't be surprised if ya booked a winning session when all was said and done, trinity.

sadly i didnt lost 800

**thetrinity** · 12-18-12, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by thetrinity
I definitely think turns a fold if i called the flop.

i actually think this was the biggest mistake he made in the hand, even more then getting involved at all. i was basically begging for the call preflop and he did have position, and his hand was probably going to be easy to play on the flop. his hand had much more potential on the flop then it did on the turn, it was fairly weak after he bricked the turn facing a near pot size all in.

**BiTeMe UsAdOj** · 12-18-12, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by thetrinity

sadly i didnt lost 800

Ah ok... just read bout that other hand ya had too... some casino Nemos getting lucky.

Was this at Rivers in Pitt, trin? I've played there a few times... like the room.

**daneblazer** · 12-18-12, 01:52 PM

If you're going to call 3 bets with 57os, that flop is almost as good as you can hope for. You know you're going to be facing a cbet there so coming over the top on the flop should usually fold out 99-TT and Ax hands and at least make JJ-QQ think about it.

**thetrinity** · 12-18-12, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by BiTeMe UsAdOj

Ah ok... just read bout that other hand ya had too... some casino Nemos getting lucky.

Was this at Rivers in Pitt, trin? I've played there a few times... like the room.

yes rivers pittsburgh. i usually like the room have been running terrible up there lately though. ya the aj hand was just ridiculous, guys never put in 250 preflop with hands like that ever, even the maniacs. most of the time they call with hands they should lay down preflop and then get sucked into the hand.

**thetrinity** · 12-18-12, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by daneblazer

If you're going to call 3 bets with 57os, that flop is almost as good as you can hope for. You know you're going to be facing a cbet there so coming over the top on the flop should usually fold out 99-TT and Ax hands and at least make JJ-QQ think about it.

exactly, one of the best flops he could have gotten. his implied odds were shit because basically every out was an action killer. like i had said earlier, in similiar spots ive stuck it in on the flop and ive had guys fold and show me overpairs, so there is definitely merit to shoving, even if you do get called, its a race. all in and just an awful session, had top 2 vs a set later on (cost me around 200), had ak all in preflop vs aj for about a 200 pot and lost, turned 2 pair and got rivered by a higher 2 pair for about another 250 pot, i was more glad then anything when it ended.

**BeerDog99** · 12-18-12, 03:19 PM

Dam, that sucks. Thanks for sharing.

**tatddy** · 12-18-12, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by thetrinity

Ya its been summed up pretty well. I didnt want to make it more preflop because he was my only chance at a call. No one is gona limp call 41 more preflop pretty much ever. If i made it 60 i thought that wuld chase out a lot of his hands even the better ones.

Maybe I'm just a nit but I pretty much want to chase everything when I'm playing a big hand out of the blinds at a full 1/3 table.

**thetrinity** · 12-18-12, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by tatddy

Maybe I'm just a nit but I pretty much want to chase everything when I'm playing a big hand out of the blinds at a full 1/3 table.

yes it is too nitty to answer your question IMO, it did burn me here but ill take the spot i got it in every time in the long run.

i dont mind getting 1 call with kings even out of position, there was really no chance anyone besides the button was going to call.

if you happened to see my other hand with kings i did make a much bigger raise because in that hand i could have had a ton of callers if i had made a smaller raise, utg went crazy and it ended up being a moot point anyways.

**tatddy** · 12-18-12, 08:28 PM

Well if you know you're only getting 1 call that's a diff story. I've sat at 1/2 games that would have 6 guys calling 44

**PaperTrail07** · 12-19-12, 12:18 AM

ida played it the same way

**TruDegen** · 12-19-12, 10:00 PM

POPPING MY POSTING CHERRY HERE!

Let me preface this with the inevitable poker cliche it depends. I will give my opinion as if I had just sat at the table and everyone was completely unknown to me (no reads, no showdowns seen, or prior play with villain). Yes, I call a shove after I lead here. Part of the reason I call a shove is, I would have lead much larger than $55 into a pot of approximately $100. I'm leading a full pot bet maybe even a tad over pot ($120). I'm doing that because at first this board looks like a great board for us, but when you look again a majority of turn cards arent going to be good for black kings, if villain is peeling for $55. We should be focused on taking the pot down here or atleast give villain terrible odds to draw to and I'm shoving on the turn 90 times out of 100. By betting $55 we are giving villain excellent odds to peel off a card on what really is a very drawy board. What happens when he flats for $55 and any heart, Q, J, 10, A, 4, or 5 peels off on the turn. Now we have approximately 2/3 pot in our stack oop with no real information from the prior street. I think in certain situations the way you played would be fine but, from your description (passive/nitty $1/$3 table) this is the line I'd take. As played I still call a shove you are firing what most $1/$3 players would consider a weak cbet so they will be shoving light a lot. You are only dominated by 66, 77, 88, and AA given your preflop action we can discount 66 most of the time and 77, 88 in a lot of cases. This leaves AA as the only realistic hand that we are dominated by. If villain shows up with AA or a set chalk it up to cold deck and rebuy. IMO villain's shoving range would be as follows (majority of the time): AhXh, KhJh+, 55+ and (small % of the time) A8ss and complete air. Sorry for the long post but, I am a very big fan of discussing poker strategy.

Cheers and good luck at the tables.

-TruDegen

**thetrinity** · 12-19-12, 10:16 PM

not sure if im being trolled or not

**TruDegen** · 12-19-12, 10:43 PM

Was not trolling one bit I apologize if it came off that way. Just giving my thoughts on the hand. What out of my analysis do you think is out of line?

-TruDegen

**thetrinity** · 12-19-12, 10:49 PM

im gona pm u tru cuz i dont want to clutter this thread, i think analysis is pretty well done but ill give u a response via pm.

**2Cold2Hold** · 12-20-12, 01:05 AM

In the stakes you're playing I would also play your hand the same. From the notes you gave a mostly-tight passive player I would put him on a mid pair myself or a hand like AQs. Since he called the flop I would then also put him on the same kinda hand like TT JJ. The way I play the turn in this situation is the same I would jam because of your stack to pot ratio, however if I was in a bigger game and vs better players, I would assume that they are calling on this board with TT, JJ, QQ to trap + find out more info and when you jam the turn they would fold (because you said everyone was tight passive, therefore a big raise, and a big 3 bet preflop would indicate only a premium hand), therefore I would check to enduce a jam or big bet by your opponent. If they truly did have a hand like TT, JJ, QQ they are never checking behind when you check since you are making your hand look like AQ, AK and if they have a hand like AQ, AK they are most likely folding to your jam on the turn, but may be inclined to bet/bluff/jam themself when you check the turn and show weakness. With your stack size it is still likely they'll call with JJ and QQ, but this play will elimate all chance of them being able to fold. Now if you had been active, or the game was active, then your play gets called by over pairs always and this play would not be necessary. GL at the tables!

**TruDegen** · 12-20-12, 05:22 AM

I just spent about an hour replying to your PM Trinity but when sending was notified that I need 20 posts before I can send a PM. So I would be happy to reply but it will need to be in this thread. I am not sure why you don't want the discussion in your thread but, it's your thread so it's your call.

-TruDegen

**korki** · 12-20-12, 06:59 AM

1.yes 2.yes

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