Does it really matter if Joe Paterno knew or not?

[opie1988]

Actually I should have said "many" people don't want to import from some areas (since I'm invested in an East Coast restaurant that still refuses to)

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-04/shocking-deformities-gulf-seafood-found-after-bp-oil-spill

11 dead. Nice blip douche.

A great leader like "I'd like my life back" Hayward. That's rich

Hey Muldoon....go fukk yourself, pal.

Typical scumbag liberal move trying to tie the deaths of 11 people from an explosion on an oil rig to an oil spill. Same way you an your idiot fukkin buddies want to blame gun laws for the 12 people killed in Colorado.

Do you drive or fly to this "east coast restaurant you're invested in"? Either way sure would be hypocritical, don't you think?

[Deuce]

Opie, pay 35% in taxes like the middle class you jerk off prick mother fukker. Why should broke fukks pay more than silver spoon mother fukkers like you? Fair tax pal, 20% across the board.

[k13]

Sundusky was Jewish before the scandal, now he is not, I wonder who changed his wiki page.....

[CarpeDime]

not for nothing, but have you guys seen some of the pics and footage and reports from the fish and shrimp and crabs they've been getting from the gulf earlier this year? It's pretty ill

[opie1988]

Opie, pay 35% in taxes like the middle class you jerk off prick mother fukker. Why should broke fukks pay more than silver spoon mother fukkers like you? Fair tax pal, 20% across the board.

Why? Because I can afford an accountant.

[Camp Vampire]

Opie, what is the best way to conceal funds from authorities? Is it through offshore vehicles or US based ventures?

[raydog]

since 1997, i dont think paterno knew who he was, where he was or what he was doing from minute to minute... and i think the ncaa is sticking their nose where it doesnt belong and fukking psu bigtime with the whoreshit fine...why does the ncaa deserve to profit off this...(oh sure its going to charity....my ass) fukking crooks boyz...its all about the dollar

[King Mayan]

I just called the IRS.

Reported.

[manny24]

Opie, what is the best way to conceal funds from authorities? Is it through offshore vehicles or US based ventures?

camper call me.

[opie1988]

Opie, what is the best way to conceal funds from authorities? Is it through offshore vehicles or US based ventures?

I use Bain.

[muldoon]

Hey Muldoon....go fukk yourself, pal.

Typical scumbag liberal move trying to tie the deaths of 11 people from an explosion on an oil rig to an oil spill. Same way you an your idiot fukkin buddies want to blame gun laws for the 12 people killed in Colorado.

Do you drive or fly to this "east coast restaurant you're invested in"? Either way sure would be hypocritical, don't you think?

Yes, what a fukkin crazy connection. Rig explodes, oil leaks. The 2 must totally be separate.

You drink water and breath air right? Don't be a fukkin hypocrite when your kid gets tumors because safety standards weren't quite at the forefront during a few weeks last year at the local plant or the place that bottled the water.

11 people die and Jersey Shore South says it's a blip.

[ChalkyDog]

Legalty is still NOT the question

its not illegal for coaches to text message 15 year old recruits in America

but it is a requirement/rule/standard that the NCAA imposes...

if the rule is broken or standard not upheld, they can and have brought sanctions..

demonstrating "institutional control" is a standard that i'm ok with despite it being open ended and semantical in nature....

we aren't talking about just Calipari-levels of lack of control here.. we are talking beyond baylor basketball levels in some respects...

Calipari never faced jail time either, but HIS schools he left behind paid

So, legality isn't the issue in a pedo case, and you reference an NCAA violation to try and make a for instance?

Those two don't work the way you think they work.

Legality is the only question, who are we to pose a higher standard than that set by the law on someone?

Pedophilia isn't exactly in the purview of the NCAA rule book.

[Chi_archie]

So, legality isn't the issue in a pedo case, and you reference an NCAA violation to try and make a for instance?

Those two don't work the way you think they work.

NCAA violation has nothing to do with whether or not something is illegal... ie "institutional control" is not a legal term/standard

can there be cross over? sure.. like when kentucky b-ball got the death penalty for point shaving/gambling back in the day.

Sandusky faced the legal stuff. others may ( I hope they do)

but the NCAA does not have to use "legality" in any way shape or form to justify any of their rulings

[opie1988]

Yes, what a fukkin crazy connection. Rig explodes, oil leaks. The 2 must totally be separate.

You drink water and breath air right? Don't be a fukkin hypocrite when your kid gets tumors because safety standards weren't quite at the forefront during a few weeks last year at the local plant or the place that bottled the water.

11 people die and Jersey Shore South says it's a blip.

Are you seriously this stupid?

Are you so caught up in your liberal agenda that you're actually willing to insult the deaths of 11 people by trying to somehow tie it into being caused by anything other than an explosion?

You're one hypocritical fukk.

[muldoon]

Are you seriously this stupid?

Are you so caught up in your liberal agenda that you're actually willing to insult the deaths of 11 people by trying to somehow tie it into being caused by anything other than an explosion?

You're one hypocritical fukk.

Spin all you want clown. You're the one who called it a "blip". Don't play the crybaby advocate for those folks who lost their lives.

You make good points in some threads, and other times you expose yourself as just a racist, biased instigator trying to add to the "Who here is betting tonight" threads from JJgold1 or JJgold2.

No badge yet for that though.

[Camp Vampire]

Opie, thanks you for the pm re:tax, also how do I also become a freemason?

[manny24]

Opie, thanks you for the pm re:tax, also how do I also become a freemason?

just couldn't relax down the shore coach?

[ChalkyDog]

The issue here Chi is, you can't keep going back and fourth depending on the time of day and argument you are making. (I am not saying you or anyone on here are - I am simply trying to point out the tricky position the NCAA has put itself in).

You can easily make this a lack of institutional control issue, and the NCAA can give sanctions for that. But - how exactly does that correlate to the losing of wins from 1998 to 2012 when in some of those years Sandusky wasn't even around and doing this sheit on campus? I understand they did that mostly symbolically, but that is a pretty shit reason.

Also, I really think you are getting into a dangerous area when you are taking a non sports issue for the most part, and delivering sanctions that destroy a sports program, most if not all members are currently innocent of any wrong doing.

Furthermore, if Paterno is not guilty legally of any misconduct - how can the university, NCAA, etc so easily destroy his image without consequence? Knee jerk reactions only make things worse a majority of the time, and trying to win the day with a headline is not worth destroying a whole town. (I say this with total regard to what the victims suffered - just making a point that penalty's should be actually given in accordance with what is the actual reality).

I feel this story has been sensationalized, and people are trying to throw their big dicks around to show that they mean business and are serious about this issue. The problem is, the reaction does little in the way of actually trying to help fix a wrong. Which is what the whole is and should be about. (Only the 60 million dollar fine is on point).

[Chi_archie]

I'm still not concerned with "losses of win totals"

and Sandusky WAS doing this shit on campus...THAT is the point

Campus=Instititution

dude raped kids in his office and during camps held on campus as recently as 2008 I think?

As the guy running the football Institution, the evidence the found of "cover-up" ( by the way if you want US/State legal stuff take a look at child mandated reporter laws)

I'm more than OK with the NCAA erring on the side of being too harsh in this situation... the downside of that is more tolerable than the opposite IMO, and I get that that is just me.

but again. the NCAA can do as they see fit... Law has nothing to do with it, nothing illegal has to occur to receive the type of punishment they doled out... I've never flip flopped on that...

any law breaking that may or may not occurred with their "institution" (again a word that can be stretched broadly semantically" is an entire different argument from the NCAA death penalty and stripping loses boo-hoo discussion

[Fishhead]

This may be the most ridiculous of all of the "blame Joe" nonsense that has come out since the Boards "Cover Our Ass Freeh" report came out. Freeh was hired by the Board to dig up and place as much blame on Joe as possible to help fend off the Paterno family's wrongful termination suit. But the most absurd slide of all in this BS is the one that says "after 1998 Joe failed to closely monitor Sandusky's behavior". First, that might be because Sandusky left PSU in 1999. But more over, Joe Paterno was a football coach, not a law enforcement official, or a Child Welfare Department employee, or anybody who was in any position to know what Sandusky was doing much less "monitor" his behavior. The alleged notes that claim to say that Joe wanted to be kept informed of the 1998 investigation led to him being informed that the charges were dropped and Sandusky was cleared. So what a reporter is saying is Joe should have confronted Sandusky and said "even though you don't work here any more, and you have been cleared of the charges against you, I am going to monitor your private life behavior?" Ridiculous. It was also made clear that Sandusky was given emeritous status and access to PSU by The President of the University, not by Joe Paterno and it was part of a retirement package, not because he was connected to the football program. Nobody knows what, if anything, Joe discussed with Tim Curley until Curleys trial.

Joe Paterno's job was coaching the football team, not "watching" Jerry Sandusky when he was on campus. Joe had no way of knowing when Sandusky was on campus much less have the time to follow him around "watching" him. If the university has suspicions, they should have had security watch him. How can you say that after the 1998 incident (where Sandusky was cleared) that Joe never said "get away from PSU football?". Sandusky quickly decided to retire in 1999. You don't think Joe was behind that and that was his way of saying "I don't care if you were cleared, I don't want you around my program"? Freeh said he could not draw any conclusions about that. Also don't overlook several other facts. The incident in the shower in 2001 took place at 9:30 at night. Long after the Lash Building was closed. Where was security? Joe was no longer there to "watch" him. How do you know Joe was "OK" with Sandusky having an office right next to him? Sandusky was given office space by Graham Spanier as part of his retirement package. Another important fact left out by Freeh was that Tim Curley and Graham Spanier told Sandusky not to bring any more kids on campus and took away his keys to the locker room after the 2001 shower incident. Mike McQueary testified at the Curley/Schultz hearing that he saw Sandusky around campus after 2001 but he never saw him on campus with a child after that. I am not in denial about anything. I am just not willing to drink the Freeh Report coolaide. Especially when he states that the cornerstone of his investigation was a conversation between Joe and Curely that he admits he knows nothing about other than a vague reference in an email. He never talked to either party so he has no way of knowing what Joe said. Is Joe guilty of poor judgement, probably; he is guilty of making a mistake, probably. But is he guilty of knowingly "enabling" or "allowing" Sandusky to molest children? No way in hell. Is he "complicit" in the crimes of a former employee? No way in hell. And no bogus report by anybody is ever going to change that.

Fishhead deducted ttwarrior1 666 SBR Point(s) for this post.

[Deuce]

Fishhead deducted ttwarrior1 666 SBR Point(s) for this post.

Unreal. Guy made a post.

Fishead, he copied it from someone else without referencing said citation.

[The Kraken]

I agree. I happen to be frustrated though with the entire punishment forced upon the current roster.

Those whom were in charge and are to blame should face the consequences. Most already have. That being said, I disagree that the current team, as well as the 98-11 teams should be penalized because of one sick fukk's actions. The current coach and players should not be penalized. An analogy would be one of this nature: grandfather is a murder so in return his sons as well as grandchildren should be punished and face consequences because of the grandfather's actions. It doesn't make any sense.

I don't see anyway to impose sanctions on the university for the incident without penalizing the current regime. PSU must be held responsible for the crimes committed. These acts happened on campus and arguably with the entire administrations knowledge. It's unfortunate for all those players between 1998 and 2011 but this is bigger than wins or losses. It's unfortunate for Bill O' Brian but he willingly accepted the job knowing this may happen. It really sucks for the current players but they have a choice to leave. A choice those kids were never given.

Also, the NCAA had to set precedent here that silence equals guilt. It will not be tolerated and the bar has been set. Going forward, consequences will be more severe and unorthodox. Penn St. is a football school. And the NCAA hit their football program the hardest. Taking away their wins, scholarships, no bowl games for 4 years, etc... Happy Valley will be reeling from this for over a decade at least, if not longer. The NCAA has sent a much needed message here by this ruling.

I suspect individuals will be charged eventually, if even with nothing more than perjury. And to some degree, they've all already been charged in the court of puplic opinion. Everything those men worked for is gone. Their family names disgraced. Their legacies tarnished. They, nor their families, can be seen in public without shame.

[opie1988]

I don't see anyway to impose sanctions on the university for the incident without penalizing the current regime. PSU must be held responsible for the crimes committed. These acts happened on campus and arguably with the entire administrations knowledge. It's unfortunate for all those players between 1998 and 2011 but this is bigger than wins or losses. It's unfortunate for Bill O' Brian but he willingly accepted the job knowing this may happen. It really sucks for the current players but they have a choice to leave. A choice those kids were never given.

Also, the NCAA had to set precedent here that silence equals guilt. It will not be tolerated and the bar has been set. Going forward, consequences will be more severe and unorthodox. Penn St. is a football school. And the NCAA hit their football program the hardest. Taking away their wins, scholarships, no bowl games for 4 years, etc... Penn St. will be reeling from this for over a decade at least, if not longer. The NCAA has sent a much needed message here by this ruling.

I suspect individuals will be charged eventually, if even with nothing more than perjury. And to some degree, they've all already been charged in the court of puplic opinion. Everything those men worked for is gone. Their family names disgraced. Their legacies tarnished. They, nor their families, can be seen in public without shame.

Deuce buried.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

Penn State football will be playing in the sun belt or something in a few years. Move the hell on!~

[Balco10]

He knew and should of ratted him out as soon as he knew! No room for Pedaphilia in this world. We should stick Jerry in general population, but our justice system is too soft! No Jessica's law in NY or NJ????

[The Kraken]

Opie give me an infraction. It would be an honor to receive an infraction from a Hall Of Fame poster

[The Kraken]

He knew and should of ratted him out as soon as he knew! No room for Pedaphilia in this world. We should stick Jerry in general population, but our justice system is too soft! No Jessica's law in NY or NJ????

[jjgold]

I think people sick of it

I do not even care anymore, its move onto next story

So many guilty people at Penn St although I bet this happens in all walks of life

Lets move on

[Grits n' Gravy]

The only people anyone should be concerned with are the kids who were abused and likely have had their lives majorly messed up by that piece of shit Sandusky. If Paterno didn't know the full extent to what atrocities were going on right under his nose, he certainly had enough info to put a stop to it many years earlier and chose not to. Why he decided to do nothing, which is essentially condoning child rape, only he knows and he cannot speak for himself any longer. All the people at Penn St involved in the disgusting act and coverup all deserve to be raped by rhinos and killed. Their assets frozen and put to child protective services. Supporters of pedos like tt, deserve the same fate. There are NO excuses anyone can make for sexually or brutally physically abusing a child. Smacking your kid for doing dumb shit is not excessive. Burning the kid with a lighter is.

May all involved rot in the bowels of hell and be forced to listen to tt read his cut and paste fantasy football crap.

[muldoon]

Everything the NCAA is doing is for appearances and for the hope they are somehow not included in the massive upcoming civil lawsuits/settlements.

How many kids went to his camp? Regardless of whether they were abused or not. Legally, if you had any knowledge of, provided any protection to, failed to report suspicious behaviour, you could at very minimum be deposed and lumped in with Joe Pa and others.

There's actual abuse victims, and then all the other kids that were (allegedly) knowingly put in harms way. Both will be suing.

NCAA is treating this like a controlled burn in the forest. They're willing to sacrifice not just the kids who are on scholarship, not just the football program, but that entire school. They're rushing to do it so that they can later say "look at everything we did" and have some public opinion on their side.

The nightmare for the NCAA is that somewhere an email or a memo from someone representing the NCAA knew or discussed this.

[opie1988]

Everything the NCAA is doing is for appearances and for the hope they are somehow not included in the massive upcoming civil lawsuits/settlements.

How many kids went to his camp? Regardless of whether they were abused or not. Legally, if you had any knowledge of, provided any protection to, failed to report suspicious behaviour, you could at very minimum be deposed and lumped in with Joe Pa and others.

There's actual abuse victims, and then all the other kids that were (allegedly) knowingly put in harms way. Both will be suing.

NCAA is treating this like a controlled burn in the forest. They're willing to sacrifice not just the kids who are on scholarship, not just the football program, but that entire school. They're rushing to do it so that they can later say "look at everything we did" and have some public opinion on their side.

The nightmare for the NCAA is that somewhere an email or a memo from someone representing the NCAA knew or discussed this.

How are they sacrificing the kids that are on scholarship? If anything, they went above and beyond assuring those kids get a free education no matter what happens.

Usually I agree that a lot of these things are done with future litigation in mind. In this case, I don't think that is the case. I think it would be very difficult to win a case against the NCAA for negligence here. These kids were not involved with college athletics, they were not participating in NCAA events. I understand your thought here, but I think this is about setting a precedent where there's never been one. Its a foreign territory for all involved. I think it was handled very well.

[muldoon]

How are they sacrificing the kids that are on scholarship? If anything, they went above and beyond assuring those kids get a free education no matter what happens.

Usually I agree that a lot of these things are done with future litigation in mind. In this case, I don't think that is the case. I think it would be very difficult to win a case against the NCAA for negligence here. These kids were not involved with college athletics, they were not participating in NCAA events. I understand your thought here, but I think this is about setting a precedent where there's never been one. Its a foreign territory for all involved. I think it was handled very well.

I disagree, but I understand your point.

[opie1988]

I disagree, but I understand your point.

Our most pleasant exchange to date. I almost feel like a grown-up!

[TheMoneyShot]

I was always told to turn the other cheek... look the other direction and pretend I didn't know when someone was doing a crime. Meaning... you kind of knew what was going on... but you didn't have cold hard core facts pertaining to this crime. The key word is... you "assumed" but you didn't participate and you didn't see that person "actually" do it. Because this crime involved under aged children.... this is where Joe gets scolded. It's one of those things where... you're damned if you do... you're damned if you don't and HE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING. So, they must take it out on his legacy.

Would you rat out your best friend? Again, we're involving children here. We're not talking about stealing a television or stealing food here for your family so they won't starve. He was molesting young boys... you have no other choice to rat out your best friend. Joe Paterno should of said something.

[CarpeDime]

why don't rich people just lobby to make it legal for anyone making over $250,000 a year to ******* children?? Then they'd never have to "cover anything up" or deal with trials and charges or any of that stuff, because what they are doing would be "completely legal" because they got the laws changed to make it so

if they had just done that, then all of this would be moot - no probs for Joe Pa, Penn St, the NCAA, etc etc