Andrew McCutchen

[2daBank]

McVP getting ready for the derby!

derby may be one of those things that screws with a youngsters swing.. wouldnt that be terrible (sarcasm from a cards fan,lol)..

[PickWinnerAllDay]

derby may be one of those things that screws with a youngsters swing.. wouldnt that be terrible (sarcasm from a cards fan,lol)..

NL Central is a 2 team race anyway. Never thought I'd say that and not be talking about the Brewers, Astros, Cubs, or Cardinals.

[Chi_archie]

Best formula is Phillies... build half, acquire half.

then what?

shouldn't they be blowing it up now?

[PickWinnerAllDay]

then what?

shouldn't they be blowing it up now?

Yeah, might be blow up time for the Phillies, but they won a championship and probably *should* have won at least one more. That is all you can ask for if you're not the Yankees... 3-4 years where you are legit WS contenders.

[Chi_archie]

Yeah, might be blow up time for the Phillies, but they won a championship and probably *should* have won at least one more. That is all you can ask for if you're not the Yankees... 3-4 years where you are legit WS contenders.

I think Pirates could be on verge of doing it almost soley from within, with no need to buy 50% of their team.

they have a 5+ year window where they could compete every year for a WS if they stay healthy. starting in 2014 (this year and next are just pre-icing on the cake)

Bucs might aquire some bats/arms in july of each year but i don't think they'll have to. same goes for other teams like KC building from within. as long as owners stick to promises. nutting/pirates already has started..

[PickWinnerAllDay]

I think Pirates could be on verge of doing it almost soley from within, with no need to buy 50% of their team.

they have a 5+ year window where they could compete every year for a WS if they stay healthy. starting in 2014 (this year and next are just pre-icing on the cake)

Bucs might aquire some bats/arms in july of each year but i don't think they'll have to. same goes for other teams like KC building from within. as long as owners stick to promises. nutting/pirates already has started..

Pirates don't have the starting pitching. Who is going to be an ace in the playoffs for them? McDonald? It is a bit of a stretch. I think they'd be wise to trade for Dempster/Hamels/Garza someone like that.

[2daBank]

NL Central is a 2 team race anyway. Never thought I'd say that and not be talking about the Brewers, Astros, Cubs, or Cardinals.

you are smoking crack if you are excluding stl from the nl central race....3 teams by my count...pit, cincy , stl...or are you saying pit not in it?

[PickWinnerAllDay]

you are smoking crack if you are excluding stl from the nl central race....3 teams by my count...pit, cincy , stl...or are you saying pit not in it?

Cards are a non factor... Reds/Pirates both significantly better. Reds will win it, they haven't even played their best baseball yet.

[No coincidences]

Cards are a non factor... Reds/Pirates both significantly better. Reds will win it, they haven't even played their best baseball yet.

With no closer and Dusty as their manager?

[PickWinnerAllDay]

With no closer and Dusty as their manager?

They just need to win the NL Central, not the AL East.

[Chi_archie]

picker! notice I said 2014..

bucs have 3 stud arms in the farm that project as aces...

plus ten other guys that project as decent starting pitchers

[PickWinnerAllDay]

picker! notice I said 2014..

bucs have 3 stud arms in the farm that project as aces...

plus ten other guys that project as decent starting pitchers

Projections are fun but I want to see them pitch for a year or so before I would declare them MLB playoffs ready. Starlin Castro projected as a hall of famer after his rookie season. That isn't working out so well for us into year 3. So even major league projections are shit sometimes.

[No coincidences]

picker! notice I said 2014..

bucs have 3 stud arms in the farm that project as aces...

plus ten other guys that project as decent starting pitchers

Again, it's the exact recipe the Marlins used to win multiple world titles.

Load up your farm system with stud players -- and more importantly, pitchers -- who want to win and have a lot to prove before signing huge guaranteed contracts. Sprinkle a few seasoned vets in there who have been there before. Just out-work and out-scout the other organizations who go for big-name bats and huge contracts. Pick their farm systems as well with trades when you have a kid mature into a great hitter who's lined up for big money.

It's not rocket science.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

Again, it's the exact recipe the Marlins used to win multiple world titles.

Load up your farm system with stud players -- and more importantly, pitchers -- who want to win and have a lot to prove before signing huge guaranteed contracts. Sprinkle a few seasoned vets in there who have been there before. Just out-work the other organizations who go for big-name bats and huge contracts.

It's not rocket science.

The Marlins' 2nd championship was thanks to Alex S. Gonzalez... was he a part of this plan?

[No coincidences]

Projections are fun but I want to see them pitch for a year or so before I would declare them MLB playoffs ready. Starlin Castro projected as a hall of famer after his rookie season. That isn't working out so well for us into year 3. So even major league projections are shit sometimes.

LOL! By who outside of the circle jerk of ignorant Cub fans?

[No coincidences]

The Marlins' 2nd championship was thanks to Alex S. Gonzalez... was he a part of this plan?

Bottom line: the Marlins had winners and the Cubs didn't.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

Bottom line: the Marlins had winners and the Cubs didn't.

Nothing is that simple. Alex S. Gonzalez is a loser and Dusty Baker compounded on it.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

LOL! By who outside of the circle jerk of ignorant Cub fans?

Well, the list of guys who did what Castro did at 20 all ended up in the hall of fame. That is what projections mean.

[No coincidences]

Well, the list of guys who did what Castro did at 20 all ended up in the hall of fame. That is what projections mean.

That's a pretty big leap given the sample size. I've never once heard anything about Castro and the Hall of Fame, but I'm also not around Cub fans every day.

[Chi_archie]

its not rocket science. but scouting and even computer statistical ranking of pre-draft prospects and international fa's is not easy and its a bit science,art, and luck.

Pirates have been whiffing on high first round picks with a few exceptions until recent years.

and then once you have them. developing prospects is another complex science/art

[PickWinnerAllDay]

That's a pretty big leap given the sample size. I've never once heard anything about Castro and the Hall of Fame, but I'm also not around Cub fans every day.

I probably judge Castro more harshly than analysts in all honesty. Castro was on pretty much everyone's top 5 players to start a franchise with under 25.

I don't even think he'd make my list... I want smart players, not head cases that are projects. So suggesting Cubs fans are delusional about their own players regarding Castro seems like a dumb argument.

[Chi_archie]

yeah show me one article outside of chicago from respected pub. talking HOF

is castro still an immense talent? hell yes. and i'd put $ on him being an all-star over 10.5 times in his career

[Chi_archie]

I probably judge Castro more harshly than analysts in all honesty. Castro was on pretty much everyone's top 5 players to start a franchise with under 25.

I don't even think he'd make my list... I want smart players, not head cases that are projects. So suggesting Cubs fans are delusional about their own players regarding Castro seems like a dumb argument.

its a long term thing that you are looking at under a microscope. and letting fan expectations infect. cub fans are way over emotional. for good reason.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

That's a pretty big leap given the sample size. I've never once heard anything about Castro and the Hall of Fame, but I'm also not around Cub fans every day.

<big>User's Notes:
</big>

1	Arky Vaughan	.322	524	1932	1934	20-22	430	1870	1628	271	85	40	25	252	197		87	13	32		12	23		.399	.469	.869	*6	PIT
2	Alex Rodriguez	.313	648	1994	1998	18-22	513	2271	2070	383	135	11	106	352	154	2	386	19	15	13	41	97	25	.364	.543	.906	*6/D	SEA
3	Dick Bartell	.308	407	1927	1930	19-22	345	1486	1320	197	80	30	7	168	102		81	13	55			23		.364	.430	.794	*64/5	PIT
4	Rogers Hornsby	.307	457	1915	1918	19-22	417	1666	1491	205	62	43	19	195	127		146	11	37			42	2	.365	.444	.809	*6/53984	STL
5	Starlin Castro	.304	438	2010	2012	20-22	357	1542	1443	179	77	21	19	146	72	9	221	10	4	13	40	48	25	.338	.426	.764	*6	CHC

Spanning Multiple Seasons or entire Careers, From 1901 to 2012, Younger than 22, Played 50% of games at SS, (requiring H≥400 and batting_avg≥.300), sorted by greatest Batting Average: Results

[PickWinnerAllDay]

yeah show me one article outside of chicago from respected pub. talking HOF

is castro still an immense talent? hell yes. and i'd put $ on him being an all-star over 10.5 times in his career

See my previous post. This wasn't just a mindless thing... it was comparing stats with other players in history at certain ages. Like I've said a million times on this forum probably, I think Castro is a loser and is worth more in a trade than he will EVER amount to... but the stats don't really lie that he is projected for a huge career.

[No coincidences]

yeah show me one article outside of chicago from respected pub. talking HOF

is castro still an immense talent? hell yes. and i'd put $ on him being an all-star over 10.5 times in his career

He's very talented. That goes without saying.

Upstairs, he's Andruw Jones.

[No coincidences]

<big>User's Notes:
</big>

1	Arky Vaughan	.322	524	1932	1934	20-22	430	1870	1628	271	85	40	25	252	197		87	13	32		12	23		.399	.469	.869	*6	PIT
2	Alex Rodriguez	.313	648	1994	1998	18-22	513	2271	2070	383	135	11	106	352	154	2	386	19	15	13	41	97	25	.364	.543	.906	*6/D	SEA
3	Dick Bartell	.308	407	1927	1930	19-22	345	1486	1320	197	80	30	7	168	102		81	13	55			23		.364	.430	.794	*64/5	PIT
4	Rogers Hornsby	.307	457	1915	1918	19-22	417	1666	1491	205	62	43	19	195	127		146	11	37			42	2	.365	.444	.809	*6/53984	STL
5	Starlin Castro	.304	438	2010	2012	20-22	357	1542	1443	179	77	21	19	146	72	9	221	10	4	13	40	48	25	.338	.426	.764	*6	CHC

Spanning Multiple Seasons or entire Careers, From 1901 to 2012, Younger than 22, Played 50% of games at SS, (requiring H≥400 and batting_avg≥.300), sorted by greatest Batting Average: Results

I'm not questioning the numbers -- I'm questioning the conclusion that somehow what a kid does in his first 1,500 at-bats before he's barely old enough to drink a beer should be a true read on whether or not he's destined for greatness.

[2daBank]

Cards are a non factor... Reds/Pirates both significantly better. Reds will win it, they haven't even played their best baseball yet.

you are comical...cards have best bats by far in division..

[No coincidences]

its a long term thing that you are looking at under a microscope. and letting fan expectations infect. cub fans are way over emotional. for good reason.

They aren't just overemotional -- they're stupid. That's not to say Picker is, but as a fanbase, it's collectively the dumbest ballpark I've ever visited. I've been to Wrigley seven times and I've been to games in at least a dozen other MLB cities. The Cubs are the Clippers. Fans don't really give a shit about the results on the field -- it's more about "being there" than winning.

[No coincidences]

you are comical...cards have best bats by far in division..

Yeah, but Matheny makes a lot of stupid mistakes and Duncan isn't there anymore....

[PickWinnerAllDay]

I'm not questioning the numbers -- I'm questioning the conclusion that somehow what a kid does in his first 1,500 at-bats before he's barely old enough to drink a beer should be a true read on whether or not he's destined for greatness.

If Castro had a mind like Derek Jeter, he'd probably be the best SS to ever play the game. But we can play that game with lots of different situations. Castro's bat speed and ability to hit anything the pitcher throws up there is off the charts.

Castro actually has it made currently, there aren't that many decent SS in the NL... He might end up being a double digit hall of famer even if he doesn't improve very much if he stays at SS. If Castro plays into his mid 30s, he'll probably rack up 3000 hits and then have those 10 all star selections and that makes him an automatic hall of famer. That is the general point.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

Castro is a unique player... never misses games, never takes walks, hits for a good average. Add in that he started his career so young and he is a lock to get to 3000 hits unless he has serious injury problems.

[Chi_archie]

many chapters left to be written about Castro, hopefully penned by castro. at his age now, mccutchen was just getting a call up. and he didn't get really goo till like may of this year. after a few months people are falling all over themselves to suick his kok.

Starlin has alot of time to develop on his side.

and if you are a cub fan you kinda want it to take awhile, so his peak coincides with theo's rebuilding plan and allows the cubs to extend castro to a reasonable contract like the pirates did with AM this offseason

[No coincidences]

Castro is a unique player... never misses games, never takes walks, hits for a good average. Add in that he started his career so young and he is a lock to get to 3000 hits unless he has serious injury problems.

Wow -- I don't know about that one.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

many chapters left to be written about Castro, hopefully penned by castro. at his age now, mccutchen was just getting a call up. and he didn't get really goo till like may of this year. after a few months people are falling all over themselves to suick his kok.

Starlin has alot of time to develop on his side.

and if you are a cub fan you kinda want it to take awhile, so his peak coincides with theo's rebuilding plan and allows the cubs to extend castro to a reasonable contract like the pirates did with AM this offseason

Definitely true. I just see regression with his plate discipline which is troubling. Rudy Jaramillo is a dumbass so maybe get a decent hitting coach in there after this season and maybe we will see some progress.