Whats up with SBR Rating$

**SBR_John** · 06-12-06, 12:55 PM

Not much to explain. Holly and BOS have both seen multiple downgrades and both will likely see more. SIA is requiring more security info just like Olympic and others.

As the resident SBR hater certainly you can find better criticism than that. That was kind of weak.

**Doug** · 06-12-06, 12:57 PM

BCN is still rated, too.

I thought the betaustralia question was fair. Do any books operate out of Australia any more ?

**gotsteam** · 06-12-06, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by SBR_John

Not much to explain. Holly and BOS have both seen multiple downgrades and both will likely see more. SIA is requiring more security info just like Olympic and others.

As the resident SBR hater certainly you can find better criticism than that. That was kind of weak.

John,

I dont feel any love coming from you.

I am not a hater, I just think people who visit the site have the right to understand how these ratings are determined.

Wouldnt you agree?

**gotsteam** · 06-12-06, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by SBR_John

Not much to explain. Holly and BOS have both seen multiple downgrades and both will likely see more. SIA is requiring more security info just like Olympic and others.

As the resident SBR hater certainly you can find better criticism than that. That was kind of weak.

Further to my post, SIA is asking for something, not stated in their TOS, which is a deceptive practice

I dont see anything wrong with them asking for it, assuming their valued players know this ahead of time.

They certainly didnt ask for it to RECEIVE THE DEPOSIT

**SBR_John** · 06-12-06, 01:06 PM

We never have considered what a book ask for as part of their security into their rating. Maybe we should. I wouldn't give them my ss number thats for sure.

Books like BetAustralia who have merged or in that case, reverse merged, we leave up as part of the permeant record. We used to take them out but then we would get a lot of questions by email so now we leave them.

**BuddyBear** · 06-12-06, 01:06 PM

not much to explain other than highest bidders win in the end....still trying to figure out why some A- books are in bold while other A- books are not in bold. It's stuff like that questions the integrity of the rating system....not to mention books like WWTS and VIP get A+ rankings.

The other day there was modest criticism of Skybook's bonus process...and the mods came quickly to deflect any criticism of the book by changing the title of the thread b/c it was misleading.....You should see the mods in action when criticism of bodog comes in. You don't want to make Calvin Ayre mad.

However, when there is outright slander and hate toward blacks and women and gays, SBR insists its a free speech issue. You see the hypocricy. You can talk all you want about minorities and insult them to no end but you will cross the line if you say anything about a "golden book" on here.

**gotsteam** · 06-12-06, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by SBR_John

We never have considered what a book ask for as part of their security into their rating. Maybe we should. I wouldn't give them my ss number thats for sure.

Books like BetAustralia who have merged or in that case, reverse merged, we leave up as part of the permeant record. We used to take them out but then we would get a lot of questions by email so now we leave them.

John - the issue wasnt that they asked for it specifically, it is that they do not tell the player until a withdrawal is requested. That is a poor business practice, especially for a neteller withdrawal, wouldnt you agree?

Something like this should be clearly outlined in their site, and not come as some surprise to the player who wins and wants a withdrawal, as I said before, they SURELY did not ask for the SSN when receiving the deposit.

**gotsteam** · 06-12-06, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by BuddyBear

not much to explain other than highest bidders win in the end....still trying to figure out why some A- books are in bold while other A- books are not in bold. It's stuff like that questions the integrity of the rating system....not to mention books like WWTS and VIP get A+ rankings.

The other day there was modest criticism of Skybook's bonus process...and the mods came quickly to deflect any criticism of the book by changing the title of the thread b/c it was misleading.....You should see the mods in action when criticism of bodog comes in. You don't want to make Calvin Ayre mad.

However, when there is outright slander and hate toward blacks and women and gays, SBR insists its a free speech issue. You see the hypocricy. You can talk all you want about minorities and insult them to no end but you will cross the line if you say anything about a "golden book" on here.

Seems to be exactly the case BuddyBear, you are right, I noticed the exact same thing

But of course if I say something i am the "resident SBR hater"

**Terris** · 06-12-06, 01:16 PM

Iam just happy that Huggybear doesnt make those ratings ^^

**David** · 06-12-06, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by BuddyBear

not much to explain other than highest bidders win in the end....still trying to figure out why some A- books are in bold while other A- books are not in bold. It's stuff like that questions the integrity of the rating system....not to mention books like WWTS and VIP get A+ rankings.

Books listed in bold are on the SBR Recommended list.

**Mudcat** · 06-12-06, 01:22 PM

Nothing easier than sitting back and second-guessing ratings. I've done it myself.

Books all have pluses and minuses and if you focus on the part that fits the argument you set out wanting to make, any rating can be spun to be wrong. In most cases, I could spin an argument why a rating is both too high and too low.

I find that there are often knee-jerk reactions to events in the off-shore world. Much like the fans of a team that has had a bad game will want the GM to trade everyone, people often react to one bad thing from a sportsbook and want their rating dropped from C to F. IMO that is not the way to go (for a sports team's GM or an offshore watchdog.)

A certain amount of perspective is required. People having knee-jerk reactions are not always privy to the full story. Ratings are complex. Many, many factors.

But easy to second-guess.

I don't agree with the exact ratings of every book here but I have thought SBR had the best package of ratings since long before becoming a mod here.

**BuddyBear** · 06-12-06, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by David

Books listed in bold are on the SBR Recommended list.

So then how come some A-books are recommended while others are not? Doesn't make much sense does it?

**SBR_John** · 06-12-06, 01:29 PM

Its actually quite the compliment to have an agenda guy complain some book that is a C- should be a D+. Pretty funny actually.

But make no mistake about it, we are not funded by taxpayers or some goverment. SBR is a business and maintains a 450 page website. We have 19 employees who work hard to provide a continueing sportsbook research resource and ratings that are second to none. Of course some agenda guys will never be happy because that not part of their agenda. That goes with being on the net.

So if you are looking for a a goverment watchdog or a non-profit gaming commission you have come to the wrong site.

**tacomax** · 06-12-06, 01:30 PM

Huggybear, why not have a meeting of your secret committee and then recommend how SBR should work their ratings system? With the influence you have with the management here it should surely just be a case of them rubber-stamping your recommendations.

**gotsteam** · 06-12-06, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by SBR_John

Its actually quite the compliment to have an agenda guy complain some book that is a C- should be a D+. Pretty funny actually.

But make no mistake about it, we are not funded by taxpayers or some goverment. SBR is a business and maintains a 450 page website. We have 19 employees who work hard to provide a continueing sportsbook research resource and ratings that are second to none. Of course some agenda guys will never be happy because that not part of their agenda. That goes with being on the net.

So if you are looking for a a goverment watchdog or a non-profit gaming commission you have come to the wrong site.

John,

It is wonderful to see you finally admitting you accept payments and that it is how SBR generates their revenue

I believe that helps everyone who visits the site to temper their understanding of ratings and reviews

**isetcap** · 06-12-06, 01:32 PM

It's the same as the umpire calling balls and strikes. All you can hope for is consistency.

In reviewing SBR's reasonings for ratings in question (which SBR officials are always quick and ready to provide), I would have to say that if SBR is anything, it's consistent.

**David** · 06-12-06, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by BuddyBear

So then how come some A-books are recommended while others are not? Doesn't make much sense does it?

All the A and A+ books are on the recommended list with the exception of the European books. The reason is because they don't accept American players. None of the A- books are on the recommended list, though I believe they are considering adding Skybook.

SBR Forum - Sports Betting Talk - Sportsbook Review Forum

http://forum.sbrforum.com/showthread.php?t=3370

Sports betting and handicapping forum: discuss picks, odds, and predictions for upcoming games and results on latest bets.

**tacomax** · 06-12-06, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by gotsteam

It is wonderful to see you finally admitting you accept payments and that it is how SBR generates their revenue

Yes, that surprised me too. I thought that SBR made their revenue from selling candyfloss.

**isetcap** · 06-12-06, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by gotsteam

John,

It is wonderful to see you finally admitting you accept payments and that it is how SBR generates their revenue

I believe that helps everyone who visits the site to temper their understanding of ratings and reviews

I think even mentally challenged individuals would be able to recognize that SBR accepts marketing payments. What's more important is that they accept them from the best of the books and not the best of the crooks like some other places.

**Mudcat** · 06-12-06, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by tacomax

Yes, that surprised me too. I thought that SBR made their revenue from selling candyfloss.

:an_roll_l

**Bill Dozer** · 06-12-06, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by gotsteam

John,

It is wonderful to see you finally admitting you accept payments and that it is how SBR generates their revenue

I believe that helps everyone who visits the site to temper their understanding of ratings and reviews

Well at least he appreciates our reporting.

You can click on the book name to find more information to help you with your ratings.

**BuddyBear** · 06-12-06, 03:09 PM

Let me provide a comprehensive review here for those of you who are a little bit lost or still choose to believe in Santa Claus...

SBR is a profit seeking enterprise...that is they seek to make money. What that means is they need some sort of revenue to make sure their business is a success without money their business can not thrive. On the one hand their job is to rate these books, on the other hand they accept money from these same books they are suppose to evaluate. Does anyone see a potential conflict of interest here?

There is no way anyone can accept money from books and then be asked to fairly evaluate them. Just the impression of improperiety qualifies these rankings and should be taken with a large grain of salt. People are humans and money corrupts....we all know that. While of course books are not "paying" for a grade but what they are paying for is exposure. Implicit in all of this is we give you money, your business grows and expands, and we get a favorable report from you guys which in turn helps our business (i.e. you scratch our back, we scratch yours). That's the way it works....you might as well put a tooth under your pillow tonight and hope for some money if you think otherwise.

All of you I am sure have heard of George Gallup....founder of Gallup polling. In the early days of polling their was quite a bit of scandal as pollesters were known to present results that were wrong but favorable to the president who would then tout those results to the public which in turn created a perception of a false public opinion climate. Of course, Gallup knew that polling was a scientific and statisical enterprise and any suspicion of fraud would destroy the industry. So what Gallup did was he recused himself from voting in general elections so that he remained neutral. Why would Gallup who represented one vote among 100s of millions and who had a Constitutional right to vote recuse himself from voting? Easy...any doubt would invalidate his results and his business.

What SBR needs to do is just like politicians be forced to tell us who is donating and how much they are donating. Of course this will never happen but the idea is that it expunges them and holds thier paymasters responsible. Why do you think Raiders shilled for BetRoyal...you think he likes them but when they are paying you, you will sell your soul to them. That's the power of money fellows.

This is not any different then the old days on the plantation where slaves were categorized as either "good slaves" or "bad slaves." The bad slaves (guys like myself) were those who acted up, challenged the status quo, tried to escape, and fought for justice. The good slaves were those who obeyed the Master and were faithful to the Master. As a result, the Master would reward those slaves by maybe giving them an extra biscut for dinner or some extra time in the shade or if you were lucky an afternoon off or an extra hour of sleep. You see, those slaves knew what the Master could do and could make life miserable for them b/c they were dependent on the Master.

Guys like me don't have a Master. That's why I can go to sleep without worrying and have a clean conscience....the "good slaves" always have to worry about the Master from now till the end of time.

**SBR_John** · 06-12-06, 03:17 PM

On the one hand their job is to rate these books, on the other hand they accept money from these same books they are suppose to evaluate. Does anyone see a potential conflict of interest here?

Just like Standard and Poors and Moodys, Inc. They rate companies and assign a rating.

Its in our best interest just as it is for SnP or Moodys, to do a great job with our ratings because we are in this for the long term.

**Mudcat** · 06-12-06, 03:34 PM

Yeah, the system isn't perfect but SBR is the best.

**Lucas** · 06-12-06, 03:43 PM

I agree with BuddyBears logic. Although I trust the whole company SBR (or what is it) - things like self-censorship work.

**BuddyBear** · 06-12-06, 04:07 PM

The problem is SBR to subservient to their Masters.

For example, nobody from the SBR personal has challenged my claims about VIP sports. All I said was it is not an A+ book and listed a number of criticisms/reasons as to why i believe that to be the case.

Second, on every online gaming forum there is major criticism of Bodog. I mean you would be hard pressed to find someone who won't criticize the book. Again, not saying it is a bad book just the opposite it's a great book to have in your portfolio but it certainly is not an A. However, the SBR personal was not only dismissing the near consensus critcism of this book but insisting it be moved to an A+ which is beyond me.

That's the nature of the game here....when the Masters talk ($$$) the servant has to listen or else.

**pjesnik24** · 06-12-06, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by David

All the A and A+ books are on the recommended list with the exception of the European books. The reason is because they don't accept American players. None of the A- books are on the recommended list, though I believe they are considering adding Skybook.

http://forum.sbrforum.com/showthread.php?t=3370

I thought bet365 is a European bookie! so is Ladbrokes but bet365 is in bold while Ladbrokes isn't. Also, skybook has a rating of A- but there are so many other noneuropean bookies with the same rating which are not in bold.

I do not have a problem with SBR taking money as long they promote safe books and that is what they do (or at least doing now because there were some issues with betpanam about which I heard in different forums but was not active here then)

**SBR_John** · 06-12-06, 04:27 PM

Buddy Bear VIP is an A+ book but its sujective. Some folks like big trucks like Pinnacle and some like Hondas and the like. The SBR ratings have a common thread; we prefer to recommend big books with long longgg track records.

**Terris** · 06-12-06, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by BuddyBear

The problem is SBR to subservient to their Masters.

lol what a trip...poor huggybear

**isetcap** · 06-12-06, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by SBR_John

Buddy Bear VIP is an A+ book but its sujective. Some folks like big trucks like Pinnacle and some like Hondas and the like. The SBR ratings have a common thread; we prefer to recommend big books with long longgg track records.

Pinnacle is a Prius; streamlined and efficient.
Bodog is a big truck.

VIP is a Saturn.

**BuddyBear** · 06-12-06, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by SBR_John

Buddy Bear VIP is an A+ book but its sujective. Some folks like big trucks like Pinnacle and some like Hondas and the like. The SBR ratings have a common thread; we prefer to recommend big books with long longgg track records.

hmm....now ratings are subjective based on what you believe the book to be. Why don't you guys use some type of systematic research program that applies the same critera to grade these books.

Basically you have told us that (1) SBR is dependent on money from sportsbook and (2) Ratings for books are subjective...

Do you see why you might at the very least give the impression that you are not fair when it comes to rankings or that you have a different agenda.

Anyway....a number of industry leaders I have spoken with have told me that "it has long been suspected that books buy their rankings from SBR." Not my words, but a manager of a sportsbook I spoke with.

**Terris** · 06-12-06, 05:00 PM

why dont you just shuddup huggybear, noone is interested in your conspiracy theories. You can stop spamming them now...ZzzZZzzzzZZzzzzz....

**BuddyBear** · 06-12-06, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Terris

why dont you just shuddup huggybear, noone is interested in your conspiracy theories. You can stop spamming them now...ZzzZZzzzzZZzzzzz....

Okay ferret, whatever....trust me, most everyone on here agrees with me. What exactly is makes this a conspiracy...it's all out in the open. Like the great philospher Kant stated, "get awed, not baffled."

I will be so bold as to state a certain individual who is esteemed on here by everyone, in private, has told me I am right on when it comes to this issue.

**Terris** · 06-12-06, 05:11 PM

yeah im sure you are not the only moron who posts here huggybear